The Merry Go Round
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 61
“The man-made tornado just detracts from his real issues”
you couldn’t be more right TrailMix.
And that’s motivating. Because overall (despite the torrent I’m expecting from a good chunk of y’all ready to call me out on my own issues) that’s still more where my head’s at: things that are helpful to him. *shrug emoji*
you couldn’t be more right TrailMix.
And that’s motivating. Because overall (despite the torrent I’m expecting from a good chunk of y’all ready to call me out on my own issues) that’s still more where my head’s at: things that are helpful to him. *shrug emoji*
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,609
Originally Posted by Saltlamp 
I’m learning as I go and don’t want to come out the other end bitter, angry, jaded. I’d rather have a friend at the end if that’s possible though I’m learning it may not be. That’s sad and vulnerable to lose a friend.
That's the thing with addiction and relationships. People talk about detachment, loving from a distance etc, because detaching is the only way to:
A. Protect your own feelings and mental well-being and
B. Not become resentful (angry, bitter etc)
C. Allow the person to follow their own path (as they should)
These things are pretty much inevitable. If you don't make a decision to take distance, by and large this will happen naturally, I'm sure that's really where it comes from, the advice that is. Don't wait until you are resentful to such a huge degree, do it now before you become more resentful.
It's a natural occurrence because our defenses kick in (well for most). Who wants to be hurt over and over? The feelings of love and caring diminish, feelings of wanting to protect yourself come to the surface, it is in inevitable in all but the most abusive relationships - but that's a different kettle of fish.
The truth is, he doesn't want your help.
- I don't want your help, I want to drink
- You don't really want to do that do you, you are a great, loving person! I will hold you up and help you.
- Yeah I really do, I want to be left alone with my alcohol, except when I want someone to talk to
Therein lies the rub. He wants what he wants on his terms. You are applying "friend" logic where no logic exists (well alcoholic logic exists).
That's not an invitation to "help" that's an invitation to talk on the phone or in person about his "troubles".
Anyway, just some thoughts.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 61
You're 100% right on all counts, TrailMix.
I think my blind spot was because of the manipulation that my friend at his worst (and he is at his worst most of the time these days) makes the narrative sound like- on first glance-:
- I *DO* want your help, I *DON'T* want to drink
- OK- I'll help however I can because you are a great, loving person! Do you want me to drive you to an AA meeting/take you to the hospital/lend you a phone so you can call your sponsor since you broke yours in your last drunken stupor?
- No because reasons. (That on first glance to someone at their first rodeo kind of make them say "OK." "No I don't want to go to AA because when I'm feeling low it makes me feel lower, no because the doctor on call this week isn't mental health aware, no because I might trigger my sponsor.")
*rinse (down with lots of booze) and repeat*
And YES I am 100% aware NOW how that was all just a roundabout way of saying EXACTLY what you said... 1984 style doublespeak and saying just the right thing to keep the "resource" (or even "hostage") around and part of the system of addiction... but that's how I got here.
And my own feelings of stuck right now... I'm aware of where they come from- it's the sunk cost fallacy, basically, at play.
(For anyone not familiar, the sunk cost fallacy is basically the idea that the more time/energy/emotion we've invested in something the harder it is to walk away. A bunch of psychological studies, from watching people waiting in lineups where the cashier never comes, to designing gambling games, and all sorts of things in between have demonstrated that the vast majority of us experience this phenom. When you add compassion, empathy and spiritual belief into the mix (which, though I respect the right to opinion of the person who posted that these things are excuses and not a real experiences, I respectfully disagree with that for me and likely for many others) the "stickiness" continues. So even though I'm beginning to open my eyes to this reality, I'm still feeling stuck right now.
So thank you to everyone who has been taking the time to gently, respectfully and kindly point out the truths about addiction. That helps. I'm working through getting unstuck and gaining the courage to do the right thing.
I think my blind spot was because of the manipulation that my friend at his worst (and he is at his worst most of the time these days) makes the narrative sound like- on first glance-:
- I *DO* want your help, I *DON'T* want to drink
- OK- I'll help however I can because you are a great, loving person! Do you want me to drive you to an AA meeting/take you to the hospital/lend you a phone so you can call your sponsor since you broke yours in your last drunken stupor?
- No because reasons. (That on first glance to someone at their first rodeo kind of make them say "OK." "No I don't want to go to AA because when I'm feeling low it makes me feel lower, no because the doctor on call this week isn't mental health aware, no because I might trigger my sponsor.")
*rinse (down with lots of booze) and repeat*
And YES I am 100% aware NOW how that was all just a roundabout way of saying EXACTLY what you said... 1984 style doublespeak and saying just the right thing to keep the "resource" (or even "hostage") around and part of the system of addiction... but that's how I got here.
And my own feelings of stuck right now... I'm aware of where they come from- it's the sunk cost fallacy, basically, at play.
(For anyone not familiar, the sunk cost fallacy is basically the idea that the more time/energy/emotion we've invested in something the harder it is to walk away. A bunch of psychological studies, from watching people waiting in lineups where the cashier never comes, to designing gambling games, and all sorts of things in between have demonstrated that the vast majority of us experience this phenom. When you add compassion, empathy and spiritual belief into the mix (which, though I respect the right to opinion of the person who posted that these things are excuses and not a real experiences, I respectfully disagree with that for me and likely for many others) the "stickiness" continues. So even though I'm beginning to open my eyes to this reality, I'm still feeling stuck right now.
So thank you to everyone who has been taking the time to gently, respectfully and kindly point out the truths about addiction. That helps. I'm working through getting unstuck and gaining the courage to do the right thing.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
