Glenjo99

No he hasn't put that much thought into it, I know, I get it. It was just NEXT.

No he is not doing anything to me, but he did when he called in to my house with suitcases, the aftermath yes is my stuff but his breaking MY No Contact has affected me. I am the one not contacting him, he gave me his number said to message him but I won't.

Glenjo99

Yes I love this mantra and it had been working so well for me. I experienced a new hurt when he showed up again, the repercussions of which I've been experiencing since. Flaring up is a good description.

AnvilheadII

we cannot depend on others to respect and uphold our boundaries. we cannot depend on others to respect our desire for No Contact. that is not THEIR job. it is ours. he did what he does, without regard for how it might affect you or your boundaries. he could care less about silly stuff like the boundaries of others - they are meaningless to him.

and what did he really DO? showed up asking if he could crash for a night. you said NO, he pushed back a bit, gave you his ph # and left. that is really exactly how it is supposed to go when we uphold our boundaries. it really wasn't some nefarious plot to wreck your day. remember he likely didn't give "you" a whole bunch of thought.....he was way down on the maslow's hierachy of needs - shelter, maybe food.

i am not saying that you are not worth being held in higher esteem - because you are!!! he is just not one who does that. with ANYONE.

Glenjo99

No, I get that, I really do appreciate that it was a place to stay long term or for few nights he was looking for, and when he couldn't get his way his asked me for a razor so he could go kill himself. I'm under no illusions that it wasn't for ME he came back, but for what I could do for him.

You see as I'd mentioned in my other thread, he called earlier that same day to my door aswell and told me he was homeless now living in a homeless shelter not far from where I live. There aren't any in my town I have subsequently found out. None and I know people who work in this area. He told me how he was kicked out of his cousins, over an incident where police were called etc, he had tried to jump in River the weekend before. All of these were lies. He then gave me his number and said he really hoped I would contact him. I took it and said I'm making no promises. So 3 hours later he turns up with suitcases!! Assumes he can move in. I was shocked. It's the sheer manipulation of it all that I could see through. He had more than likely been staying with some female he met online in the area and wasn't happy there who knows.

I agree about the boundaries thing, they are mine to uphold.

AnvilheadII

so you opened the door to him twice and you took his number when it was offered and gave a noncommital response that you MIGHT call. and that was all he needed. he set the stage, and didn't get the door firmly shut in his face the FIRST time.

that's what he does. that's what they do.
it does not matter WHERE he was before hand, and it's best you stop conjuring up notions about that. it is irrelevant who he was with, where he was at or what he was doing.

here's a couple tips from a telemarketer on how to effectively get them to stop calling - it's really the same methodology here:

Don't let the telemarketer call you back at another time. Anything that's not a hard "no" will be interpreted as an opportunity to call you back. When you say "This isn't a good time," the telemarketer hears "Call me back later!" When you say "Sorry, I don't have time to talk about this right now" the telemarketer hears "I will buy this another day!"

Don't engage with the telemarketer in any way. This gives them the false hope that you may just need some convincing and are actually interested in their product. Do not ask questions. Do not explain why you are not interested in the product. Do not show empathy or other human characteristics.

The most efficient way to get the person to stop calling you requires you to say one sentence: "Please put me on your do not call list." Don't say "Can you put me on your do not call list?" or "I don't want to get these calls." This will lead them to ask why. Be polite, but firm. If they ask why or won't do it right away, remain calm and repeat, "I want you to put me on your do not call list."

The solution for getting rid of telemarketers may seem obvious, but it's mostly about the approach. By using those exact words and not making any of the mistakes previously mentioned, you don't give the caller anything to work with. The way you phrase your response can mean the difference between getting called all the time and getting rid of telemarketers efficiently. Make the right choices and you won't be bothered.

full article here
https://lifehacker.com/im-a-telemark...-me-1540911401

Glenjo99

Ok some good points. He got a hard no when he called with his suitcases. He hasn't been back.

Glenjo99

Also to be fair to myself, I did not know who was at the door when I opened it, funny thing with doors can't see through them (sorry couldn't resist). I got a shock when I saw his face so did the best I could at the time. Next time I would know how to handle it better.

As for conjuring up notions about where he is/was etc, if I could stop that I wouldn't have posted probably. It's part of the ruminating. Telling someone to stop something doesn't make it happen, though I realise it isn't helping me.

AnvilheadII

there are techniques we can use to stop our thought patterns...or arrest them. as a former crack addict, i can tell you they came in VERY handy. we CAN change our thinking....we are in control of what we allow to meander around our brains, at least while awake!

you could imagine a big stop sign.
or a purple unicorn balancing a watermelon on it's horn.
or a brick wall.

and you do that 500 times a day if need be. it's no different than the methods an addict uses to NOT think about using. repeated hard work, not giving oneself an 'excuse' like "i can't help it". you have a LOT of power at your disposal - the same power that shut the door - twice! find it, tap into it, use it.

Glenjo99

Believe me I have been doing a lot of repeated hard work on myself since last year, as many in here can testify to, so I'm no stranger to it. Thanks for acknowledging I have a lot of power at my disposal, I do. Unfortunately a purple unicorn isn't going to help with the emotional upheaval I'm feeling but I appreciate the intent.

Needabreak

I agree with Trailmix. Viewing your events from outside, it's clear that you had a temporary period of happiness while you were dating the second guy, because you were using him as a drug -- a distraction -- and now that he is gone, you are going thru this emotional upheaval because you are alone -- with no drug or distraction.

You have a real problem with being alone, with being by yourself. This is your attachment wound. Attachment is your addiction. Healthy interconnectedness (which means being comfortable keeping boundaries when necessary) is a good thing, but attachment is not. There is a reason that the Buddha taught that attachment is the root of all suffering. And it is going to keep you in a very unhappy place until you work through it. Because if you don't work through it, you will seek distraction through dating. Emotionally healthy people will smell your attachment wound and the dysfunction it brings from a mile away, so they will quickly bow out as per Anvilhead's telemarketer story above, and you will continue to bring dysfunctional people into your life, compounding your misery.

The key here, as Anvilhead stated above, is your own mind. Your mind is creating this craziness. It is not external. You loop and loop and loop through your misery, telling the same story endlessly.
I'm not saying to never tell the story, but there comes a time when the story isn't serving you anymore. Change the way you think and you will open up room for better things to happen in your life. There are ways to do this: therapy, CODA or Al Anon meetings, or the method that has worked for me: meditaton. It is a long slog, but there really isn't any other option except to continue being anxious and miserable.

Whatever you do, try to stop these crazy thoughts you are having. Anvilhead pointed out some methods for doing this. Your thoughts are only in your own mind. They don't exist anywhere else. So you can give them some space, air them out, let them dissolve. They are only thoughts. Habitual patterns. But they are holding you back. Unnecessarily.

trailmix

Have you noticed that when you describe him coming to the door you use phrases like (not quoting, just going from memory here):

- He was only interested in what he could get from me
- He said NEXT and was off to who knows where - girl he met on the internet or some such
- He was only using me for what he could get
- He obviously doesn't care about me

Addict shows up at your door and all of a sudden you are somehow unworthy? How does that work. Do you know you do this?

If you really look at it wholly realistically, an addict showed up on your doorstep with two suitcases, a bunch of lies and some chocolate and then asked you for a razor blade.

Honestly, that's pretty funny (if it weren't kind of tragic) but it has not one thing to do with you at all. As Anvil said, he probably didn't think about it at all. You said, no he just said NEXT. Well no, he didn't think about it that much.

You think he thinks like a regular person, he doesn't. You think he SAW you at the door, he didn't. You are not a person to him, you are a place to stay. So is his cousin, so is the girl so is the person where he is staying now, not people, places to stay to further his addiction, to protect his addiction.

It's no different than if he needed gasoline to fuel his addiction to alcohol. He would be siphoning the gas out of your car every night because he knows you probably won't call the police.

It's simply a case of using the things at his disposal, to protect his addiction, that hold the softest landing - nothing more.

Now, you, thinking normally, take this personally. Until you stop applying normal thinking rational to this, you will be hurt by it. It's not a rejection, it's an addict looking for a place to drink, nothing to do with you personally.

Now, you could argue, but what about our relationship, well that was probably real to some degree, even an addict as deep in as he is does have moments and times of clarity, for him that may be some time in appearing again.

http://www.bma-wellness.com/papers/A..._Lies_Rel.html

2018LizAnon

Totally agree here. Glenjo, you have to stop ruminating and trying to figure this all out. He's doing what he has to do to continue his addictions; he's not trying to hurt you. The concept of respecting your boundaries means nothing to him because right now he's not capable of thinking on that level.

It seems like somewhere, deep down you still have hope that he will come to his senses and say, "wow, I really had a great thing going with Glenjo. I'm gonna get into recovery and work hard to get healthy and rebuild the relationship." I totally understand having that hope, but it's just going to keep you stuck. He's not going to do that.

It took me a long time to come to terms with this, but nothing is personal. You just kinda have to accept that you got hurt and it's not fair, but sometimes **** just happens. He has a disease, and there's nothing you can do about it. Stop thinking about him like he's a sane, normal person; he is ill. Stop worrying about him because he's definitely not worrying about you. Sorry if that sounds harsh. I know how much that sucks. But at the same time, it's really freeing.

2018LizAnon

I hope I didn't come off too harsh in the last post. I get what you're going through, Glenjo. My thoughts for a long time about my XABF were like, "how could he do this to me? How could he act like this with me? How could he put me through this? Doesn't he know how much pain he's causing me?" etc. etc.

But he wasn't trying to do anything to me. During the relationship, I often felt like he was malicious because I took things personally. And yeah he did say some nasty things to protect and defend his drinking. But it didn't have anything to do with me. I do believe he loved me, but drinking came first, and that was always going to cause pain. Not because he was trying to hurt me, but because he's sick.

Glenjo99

No I don't take it harshly. I suppose it's like sending a text to someone or not being able to talk in person, I may not be able to explain what I mean in my posts clearly.

I know he wasn't doing anything to me, I've done the work, I know about addiction and how the addict just needs to find place to drink etc. Under no illusions.

The purpose of posting was to try understand why I'm ruminating again, hyper vigilant, annoyed and trying to understand why.

It's probably the attachment wound, cognitive dissonance and God knows what else. Tired of it all now. Some therapy is needed for sure because ruminating and trying to understand why I'm feeling how I do sure isnt working this time.

Glenjo99

Yes I've been looking at my attachment style recently, it's anxious preoccupied, I realise there's lots of work to do in earning security.

Glenjo99

Trailmix you ask "Addict shows up at your door and all of a sudden you are somehow unworthy? How does that work?"

That's the purpose of this whole thread. Trying to figure out why. What happened. I give up at this stage.

Glenjo99

Ok thanks for the inputs, found some hard to hear which are probably the ones that were most helpful. I do need to actively work on deactivating these thoughts. I'm choosing them I get it now. The ruminating and trying to figure things out are my go to reaction when something happens unexpectedly in my life. Thinking is not going to fix anything, so by focusing on the things that are going well for me again (which I HAD been doing) I'm going to allow space for other happier things in my life again. Like loving myself, my sense of humour, putting myself on a pedestal for a change and believing I deserve to have my needs and wants met, there is nothing wrong with me.

The whole area if attachment is big for me, I'm learning so much about it lately (on a course I'm doing also), a good therapist with inner child work is needed. Things will crop up in my life from time to time like my ex calling out of the blue, and it helps in the moment soothe my anxiety to post in here. If I didn't he might sitting in my house right now watching bare knuckle fighting 😂😂.

OpheliaKatz

Hi Glenjo, I hope you still read this message. I found this video that might be useful to your recovery:

It's about the spouses of narcissists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz4XMBEZL5I

Your addict ex showing up at your door and making you suddenly feel unworthy is not because your ex was an addict, it's because he was abusive. In order to get you into the relationship in the first place, he spends weeks grooming you (this is brainwashing -- remember, not your fault, he's a manipulator). So every time you see him, you start thinking of ways to get approval; even after you break up, you can still have this wired into your brain because of muscle memory (the brain is a muscle) -- it's like a reflex.

You have to retrain your brain the way an addict has to retrain their brain.

Inner child work: a lot of the time, our relational patterns are set in childhood and then we spend our adulthood finding toxic people (or people similar to people in our childhood) in order to act out maladaptive behaviors so we can "fix" those behaviors. We don't do this consciously -- people find people they are comfortable with... and sometimes those people can be the wrong people for us going forward as adults.

If your ex was/is a narcissist, you were dealing with someone with more than addiction, they have a personality disorder that means they intend to cause harm. So do not discount your trauma.

What Anvilhead said about the telemarketer works as well -- say "get me off your list". Use gray rock. Don't worry about being "polite". Don't take the phone number.

You're doing okay.

Glenjo99

Thank you so much I will watch that video.

Your absolutely right that "Your addict ex showing up at your door and making you suddenly feel unworthy is not because your ex was an addict, it's because he was abusive". It reminded me of what it was like being around him.

That's where some of the difficulty lies, some comments are relating to addicts behaviour and I get that, nothing to do with me but his stuff, throw in the narcissism and abuse and that's where the other layers come in. Your again spot on!

Thank you for understanding me, I feel you are actually hearing me. I don't expect to see him again but if he did call, I would close the door and not take the number! Been meditating today and exercising trying to focus back on loving myself.

( I had contemplated messaging or emailing to tell him to stay away never to call to my house etc but that's engaging him and he would enjoy knowing I was annoyed).

trailmix

Well lol - during my rather long post the point really was, your perspective is skewed.

The key, the absolute key here is getting a different perspective. You are taking this personally and it's just not. That's the confusion whether you have been in a relationship with a narcissist an addict or a narcissistic addict!

On the one hand you have this kind of "normal" relationship on the other hand you have this screwed up, hardly understandable - thing.

Once you accept that the latter is where he is at, that this has zero to do with you, zero, you will be free.

Stand back and look at it.

You cannot marry the original relationship with the addiction as it is now. Although the addiction is part of the entire relationship, this is a new level, a new day a new scenario. The progression of the addiction is happening and you are watching it.

He never rejected you anyway, you walked out on him. You did the right thing, never forget that.