Just ruminating
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 229
Just ruminating
I know we are all at different stages with our A loved ones, some of our loved ones are still drinking, some sober, some in recovery etc.
I was just thinking about emotional abandonment by the A spouse. I am a child or emotional neglect (abandoned by both my parents) so prime material for co-dependency (of course I didn't know any of this).
So in my marriage, I gave gave gave and he took took took. I never thought about my own emotional needs, I passed if off as being strong and not needing emotional support.
Now as I dig deeper with reading, (in the past al anon, etc) I have become very emotional and more able to articulate my emotions to my AH. I know it is difficult for him because he doesn't like this new me. This has been going on for at least 7 years.
He says I am "demanding" 'crazy' etc. I know I have my own issues but asking for my needs to be met is not demanding, the old way of doing things no longer works for me. Hence due to many 'bids' to connect, I think I have given up. I think he is just not capable.
I am not sure if I want to try one last time (eyes rolling) with MC or not, I felt before it was like banging my head of a wall and expecting no pain.
I realize I've lived a marriage of emotional neglect and abandonment, he cannot see that and says he was a good provider which is true. It just amazes me that he just does not get it. I am just ruminating here. I find it cathartic.
I was just thinking about emotional abandonment by the A spouse. I am a child or emotional neglect (abandoned by both my parents) so prime material for co-dependency (of course I didn't know any of this).
So in my marriage, I gave gave gave and he took took took. I never thought about my own emotional needs, I passed if off as being strong and not needing emotional support.
Now as I dig deeper with reading, (in the past al anon, etc) I have become very emotional and more able to articulate my emotions to my AH. I know it is difficult for him because he doesn't like this new me. This has been going on for at least 7 years.
He says I am "demanding" 'crazy' etc. I know I have my own issues but asking for my needs to be met is not demanding, the old way of doing things no longer works for me. Hence due to many 'bids' to connect, I think I have given up. I think he is just not capable.
I am not sure if I want to try one last time (eyes rolling) with MC or not, I felt before it was like banging my head of a wall and expecting no pain.
I realize I've lived a marriage of emotional neglect and abandonment, he cannot see that and says he was a good provider which is true. It just amazes me that he just does not get it. I am just ruminating here. I find it cathartic.
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 200
I can relate to this. I felt for years that craving a compliment about how I look, smell or feel to my own husband was me being needy or vain in some way. So I lived 15 years (still am but I’m in the process of moving out) with it.
There’s been no kissing or love making for years. I’m only 45. I convinced myself that stuff was for young lovers and that all marriages are like this one. I stopped even wanting that myself I’ve learnt to quieten that “voice” that wants to be cherished by someone.
So lonely and you start to feel grateful for even the slightest gesture. A random drunken hug, an arm that flops over you in the night, a warm “look” of approval when you offer to make his favourite meal... you cling onto those moments and try to leech every second out of how good it feels to be wanted.
There’s been no kissing or love making for years. I’m only 45. I convinced myself that stuff was for young lovers and that all marriages are like this one. I stopped even wanting that myself I’ve learnt to quieten that “voice” that wants to be cherished by someone.
So lonely and you start to feel grateful for even the slightest gesture. A random drunken hug, an arm that flops over you in the night, a warm “look” of approval when you offer to make his favourite meal... you cling onto those moments and try to leech every second out of how good it feels to be wanted.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Givenup…..It sure does sound like he may not be capable of giving you what you need in a relationship.
Keep in mind, that marriage counseling is not a magic wand....both parties have to want and be motivated to change the quality of the marriage.
He may want to avoid divorce...but , that is not the same thing as being motivated to change the quality of the relationship....
I can't remember if you husband is still drinking...but, generally, marriage counselors will not accept a couple if they know that alcoholism is still present in one or both of the partners.....And there is good reason for this.
Yes, I know that it is shocking to us when they don't "get it"....that they don't have the empathy to see our feelings of neglect and abandonment.....because, we are not put together like that.
But, if they ARE put together like that....they are. Period. It is their make up....and change is almost impossible.
I remember, that, when I told the father of my three small children that I was divorcing him for those same kind of reasons....He said "You are being ridiculous ….I am very happy with our marriage". He didn't get it then...and, he still doesn't get it, decades later....decades!
By the way, I did drag him into marriage counseling during the year before I sought divorce...but, he only went to 2 or 3 sessions...before he dropped out....I, however, continued to go, for myself, for sever more months...…
I can still remember the therapist telling me, at one point..."He just doesn't get it, because he is not able to....it seems that the two of you are basically, incompatable".
for what it is worth...he was a good provider....and was a workaholic....
Givenup….It is not the material things that we crave the most, in a lonely and emotionally barren relationship....what we crave is to be "seen" and "heard"...to know that we are important---that we actually matter!
Keep in mind, that marriage counseling is not a magic wand....both parties have to want and be motivated to change the quality of the marriage.
He may want to avoid divorce...but , that is not the same thing as being motivated to change the quality of the relationship....
I can't remember if you husband is still drinking...but, generally, marriage counselors will not accept a couple if they know that alcoholism is still present in one or both of the partners.....And there is good reason for this.
Yes, I know that it is shocking to us when they don't "get it"....that they don't have the empathy to see our feelings of neglect and abandonment.....because, we are not put together like that.
But, if they ARE put together like that....they are. Period. It is their make up....and change is almost impossible.
I remember, that, when I told the father of my three small children that I was divorcing him for those same kind of reasons....He said "You are being ridiculous ….I am very happy with our marriage". He didn't get it then...and, he still doesn't get it, decades later....decades!
By the way, I did drag him into marriage counseling during the year before I sought divorce...but, he only went to 2 or 3 sessions...before he dropped out....I, however, continued to go, for myself, for sever more months...…
I can still remember the therapist telling me, at one point..."He just doesn't get it, because he is not able to....it seems that the two of you are basically, incompatable".
for what it is worth...he was a good provider....and was a workaholic....
Givenup….It is not the material things that we crave the most, in a lonely and emotionally barren relationship....what we crave is to be "seen" and "heard"...to know that we are important---that we actually matter!
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,620
Funny, I was just thinking about this a few minutes ago, I was reading Wombaticus's reply in Perse's thread (drinking again) and this one line stood out to me:
I thought about that and really this is the bottom line for many.
I think you can go along for years not really addressing what you want or need. You get thrown some crumbs, you have children and/or a career, life carries on and then finally, as it progresses and counting bottles becomes less interesting, you ask, what about me?
What about having a good relationship? What about having someone who cares what you have to say, who is happy to see you when you show up, who confides in you, wants to know what is going on with you.
What about all that?
All of that dwindles as alcohol (or whatever) takes up more and more room in a relationship.
Originally Posted by Wombaticus 
Especially when there are no positives coming your way.
I think you can go along for years not really addressing what you want or need. You get thrown some crumbs, you have children and/or a career, life carries on and then finally, as it progresses and counting bottles becomes less interesting, you ask, what about me?
What about having a good relationship? What about having someone who cares what you have to say, who is happy to see you when you show up, who confides in you, wants to know what is going on with you.
What about all that?
All of that dwindles as alcohol (or whatever) takes up more and more room in a relationship.
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Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 471
Wow. Yes. AH hasn't 'shown up' in our relationship for years. Doesn't attend school events, doesn't encourage me, dismisses my opinions. He doesn't get it. Says school events (including the annual awards night) are not really family events if you are Just sitting together watching kids get up on stage!!! Obviously the other mums and dads and I don't feel that way. He is missing out. I am confident in the job I'm doing with my kids with the help of my family and my friends. I see their triumphs and their mistakes. And i am with them. I told a colleague yesterday AH didn't say goodnight to me as he went to sleep in the other room (sober), and that i'd nearly had enough. She told me he'd be mad if he let me go. He's not letting me go...I'm think I've well and truly outgrown my situation .
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Originally Posted by Wombaticus
He's not letting me go...I'm think I've well and truly outgrown my situation .
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Right here, right now!
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Given up
I tend to get lost in big picture thinking when I am in a spot like you are.
I know this is because I pull in the past and I future trip by basing my decision's on the other's potential rather than current reality.
I am curious if you just looked at today, tomorrow etc or recent information about your relationship and you AH how would you feel?
I think we have the choice to try every day......but that does not mean that it is the best thing for us today.
I tend to get lost in big picture thinking when I am in a spot like you are.
I know this is because I pull in the past and I future trip by basing my decision's on the other's potential rather than current reality.
I am curious if you just looked at today, tomorrow etc or recent information about your relationship and you AH how would you feel?
I think we have the choice to try every day......but that does not mean that it is the best thing for us today.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 229
Actually, he was much worse when younger, he’s tried and now he is fine with me just that he seems miserable all the time. No abuse, foul language or anything just the hiding/lying. I know his work is bothering him. He says that he knows what is at stake, I’ve just heard it all before and am not prepared to pretend I believe him, so I dismiss him
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
Givenup, I totally get the desire for him to understand where you are coming from, at least...but I've learned that is exactly the kind of thing that will keep me stuck in a situation that is fundamentally making me unhappy.
You don't need his validation of how you feel in this relationship. And even if he did suddenly "get it" that is no guarantee that he will do what is necessary to be the kind of partner you are wanting.
Can you accept him, right now, as-is, and make decisions accordingly?
You don't need his validation of how you feel in this relationship. And even if he did suddenly "get it" that is no guarantee that he will do what is necessary to be the kind of partner you are wanting.
Can you accept him, right now, as-is, and make decisions accordingly?
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Right here, right now!
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Originally Posted by Givenup2018
Actually, he was much worse when younger, he’s tried and now he is fine with me just that he seems miserable all the time. No abuse, foul language or anything just the hiding/lying. I know his work is bothering him. He says that he knows what is at stake, I’ve just heard it all before and am not prepared to pretend I believe him, so I dismiss him
That is actually exactly what I meant.
Your feelings about today count. Being unhappy right now is enough for whatever you decide.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,620
Givenup, I jusr reread your post and one other as this one got me to thinking.
You mention:
So you started out your marriage with you giving, asking and receiving nothing or very little in return, for years.
To him you probably now seem demanding, while that probably is not the case at all.
He married someone who was probably pretty passive, the organizer, the bill payer the person who cooked, kept house and made sure everyone was happy. Now all of a sudden this person wants to be taken care of a little, have a relationship where feelings and dreams and thoughts are shared.
Now, 100% nothing wrong with you wanting those things but expecting him to be on board is may be way too much for him.
Flip it around. What if you were a non-emotional "sharer", he had done things for you for years, he smiled he laughed, took care of the children and the food and etc etc, then today he walks in and says, you know, that's not really working for me, what about me?
It's a huge game-changer.
Nothing wrong with you wanting what you want but also nothing wrong with him wanting what he wants and maybe this big change is just too much for him and seems "crazy".
From what you have posted it doesn't seem like he has any interest in changing the status quo.
You mention:
I gave gave gave and he took took took. I never thought about my own emotional needs, I passed if off as being strong and not needing emotional support.
He says I am "demanding" 'crazy' etc. I know I have my own issues but asking for my needs to be met is not demanding, the old way of doing things no longer works for me. Hence due to many 'bids' to connect, I think I have given up. I think he is just not capable.
He married someone who was probably pretty passive, the organizer, the bill payer the person who cooked, kept house and made sure everyone was happy. Now all of a sudden this person wants to be taken care of a little, have a relationship where feelings and dreams and thoughts are shared.
Now, 100% nothing wrong with you wanting those things but expecting him to be on board is may be way too much for him.
Flip it around. What if you were a non-emotional "sharer", he had done things for you for years, he smiled he laughed, took care of the children and the food and etc etc, then today he walks in and says, you know, that's not really working for me, what about me?
It's a huge game-changer.
Nothing wrong with you wanting what you want but also nothing wrong with him wanting what he wants and maybe this big change is just too much for him and seems "crazy".
From what you have posted it doesn't seem like he has any interest in changing the status quo.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
Alcoholics' obsession, the great love of their lives, is alcohol so stop trying to compete, he's taken. The better question is why you continue to engage. Alanon was a lifesaver for me, I recommend it.
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