PerSe

Hi, I just need to vent a little right now and this is the only place where I feel like people really understand. A week ago I moved out of our bedroom after almost 20 years of marriage because of H's heavy drinking. He had drank heavily every night (1-2 bottles of wine) the week before and I had been considering moving out of our room for a long time. So that was it - I consider myself emotionally detached from our relationship. He hasn't asked me anything about why I moved out. We haven't talked about it at all. That's how we roll.

After I moved out last Thursday, he didn't drink that weekend or all week until now. I brought my youngest home from basketball practice and he's into a 6-pack of beer and listening to music with our other son.

The thing that's burning me right now is that he's showing the boys happy dad when drinking and short-tempered, utterly serious, impatient dad when not drinking but wanting a drink. Also, and even more alarming, is I feel like he is almost grooming our boys to become his drinking buddies later on the same way he was his mom's drinking buddy for so many years. It's gross.

Then I convince myself I'm being all paranoid and controlling, that it really isn't a big deal for a guy to be having a 6 pack. And was last week really that bad?

I know I must talk to him again soon. This is a difficult chapter. I will continue to seek clarity and continue going to the Alanon meeting I found. Thanks so much for reading.

trailmix

It's not just you thinking that, it was the first thing I thought of when I read that he was sitting there listening to music, drinking, with your Son there.

Now,I didn't think "grooming him" to be the drinking buddy - but I did think how unhealthy that is. This is an example to your Son of what bonding time with Dad is, what relaxing time is. He can look back on the times he sat with Dad while he had a beer and he was "nice". And yes, eventually this will probably equate to drinking buddy.

So no, you aren't seeing things that aren't there, you are exactly right.

Please stop doubting yourself, you are not making a big deal out of nothing.

PeacefulWater12

It is as bad as you perceive it. Myself and my siblings were groomed that drinking with our dad gained his approval. Very unhealthy mindset.

dandylion

PerSe…...I think it IS a big deal...what he is doing to your boys. And, giving what you say about him being the drinking buddy for his own mom....I think you are right ….he is grooming them...even if he is not conscious of it.
He is greatly increasing the likelihood that they will become alcoholics or marry alcoholics....
One cannot expect different, if the children are raised in a home that is centered around alcoholism....because it effects every single person in the family...that is why it is called the family disease...

Perhaps you feel like you have somewhat detached from him, within the same house...but, your children cannot do that.
You are the parent that they will have to depend on to rescue them from the alcoholic classroom.
It is not "controlling" to protect your children. I think it is co-dependent with your husband to not protect them....and to put the alcoholism and the alcoholic before the children"s best welfare....

As for the "paranoid"....I don't think it is paranoid to feel uncomfortable with what he is doing and how much he is drinking.....I think it is just realizing that the reality is not healthy for the children...or good for you....

I really, really, implore you to get the "Adult Children of Alcoholics" literature and their Big Book....you can get it from amazon,com….It will inform you of what your children will face in their adult lives.....
Knowledge is power.

Now, I realize that my words may seem very blunt and harsh, to you....and, I know that they are. I just don't know any way to sugar-coat the facts.
I think you deserve to have the truth....otherwise, it is just too easy to hide one's head in the sand.....

I sense that you are afraid that you will be blamed for disrupting the marriage....and that you will feel like the black hat and guilty if your husband doesn't agree with you.
I think that alcoholism has already disrupted your marriage....and, your husband will never agree with you.....regardless of what you do, or, don't do.
so, you might as well do the right thing for your and your children's welfare....

***drinking a 6pack is not normal drinking. It is heavy drinking....It just feels normal for those who are used to heavy drinking....

Sleepyhollo

It is a big deal for a guy to have a six pack when that guy has an alcohol problem. Any alcohol is a problem because eventually it will completely spin out of control. It may be tomorrow or 6 months from now but it will.
At least my xRAH only drank in the open at parties, never at home.
And you can talk to him but it likely won’t do much. I tried several times with my ex and usually, he would stop for a while but it never lasted . The last time he had started drinking again I somehow knew I had to detach and let it go and let him bang himself so to speak. Either he had to hit rock bottom or I had to. After about 1 year I could no longer deal with it and gave him an ultimatum that I was ready to follow through on (leave him ) . I had never gotten to that point before but it was necessary. Because I think that otherswise we would have continued the same cycle over and over again. He later admitted that he was getting to his own rock bottom and had been thinking about needing to quit but had just needed that kick in the butt. That is the only reason he was able to succeed. And he not been I that mind set he would not have been able to do it, our marriage did not end up working out but at least he is sober and I can trust him with our kid. That was another huge reason I did not walk out when he was not in recovery.
It is very unhealthy for your kids. Both the drinking « with » daddy and also his impatience and grumpiness.
Your feelings are your feelings whether or not he sees his drinking as a problem or not. Unfortunately he has to want to get clean to be successful at sobriety. You need to decide when you have had enough. And only you can decide that. If he shows no interest in quitting You mY need to make some tough decisions. But you need to look out for yourself and your kids. Your AH is an adult and you cannot fix him. But you cans et boundaries and take care of you.
I am glad you are here. I wish I had found this place before my Ex went to rehab. It may not have changed the outcome but I would’ve at least had support.

Wombaticus

I have spent a lot of time doing a 'stocktake' of AH's intake. Partly because I wanted to be completely convinced the amount was abnormal. I just didn't want it to be true and was compiling the evidence for myself. I also wished in some perverse way that he would be violent towards me so I would have a bruise or a break - a 'real' tangible proof of his hurt. But I was being a victim. It's not just about the alcohol, nor violence. It's also about neglect for our relationship, his extreme feelings of rejection when i do something that doesn't suit him...subtle things but very hurtful. Especially when there are no positives coming your way. I've got stronger since being on this site, and even after one al-anon mtg. Stop counting and start living.

Mango212

Changed people change everything. Through recovery, everything naturally changes. We can learn to listen to our healthy gut instincts and gain confidence in enjoying good, healthy, supportive relationships.

How are you doing today, PerSe?

Sasha1972

FWIW, with the "drinking buddy" thing - I've been reading a lot about alcoholism as a habit. Even if the kids are exposed to "happy" dad (who is happy because he's got alcohol inside him, not because he's spending time with his kids), they're being taught by example that drinking alcohol is what you do when you want to relax. And what you do when you want to celebrate. And what you do when you're feeling anxious. And what you do when you're angry about something. And what you do when ...

... and pretty soon, drinking alcohol is what you do in response to any situation at all. It's like a twisted version of "If You're Happy And You Know It [Clap Your Hands/Have a Drink]". This is independent of whether they actually become dad's drinking buddies.

trailmix

I'm sorry but that actually made me laugh out loud (sorry because I know it's a serious topic) - but that was funny : )

PerSe

trailmix

He stayed out all night?

PerSe, so glad to hear you are away on your trip and you will have some time to relax and take stock - out of the scene of the stress.

I hope you have wonderful time and plenty of fun and take some time to do some nice things for yourself as well.

PerSe

NYCDoglvr

The majority of alcoholics come from families of alcoholics, where one or both parents drank to excess. It's both genetic and learned. But unless you and your children move out I doubt there's anything you can do. I'm sorry, I can't imagine how painful it is to watch.

Wombaticus

PerSe, i've been rereading this thread. You could be writing my story. My AH went away from us during school holidays as he couldn't deal with us being around. My friends are stunned. He went to visit his birth mum and half sister who are unaware of the extent of the problem, and who therefore participate in the problem. One night, he was out drinking with his sister until 5am. I just dont understand that. Hes clearly much happier when he is away and can do whatever he likes.
I feel very happy being on my own with the kids. We've had a lovely time. Im sleeping well and am less fidgety. We will see him tomorrow night.
Keeping perspective on what is normal is hard.

FallenAngelina

Just want to say that un-addicted people who drink with the alcoholic aren't necessarily part of the problem - they are just living their lives. The addiction is nobody's problem to deal with but the alcoholic's. Holding anyone else responsible, or even considering social drinkers part of the problem, is really just more infantilization of the alcoholic. He is the one and only person responsible for what goes into his body and what does not. If other people could be part of the problem, then they could be part of the solution as and we all have painfully learned, nobody can sway an alcoholic to drink or not. It is always the alcoholic's responsibility and to blame others, even a little bit, is to dismiss that alcoholics are in control of the choices they make. Nobody is responsible for his drinking but him.

dawnrising

May I ask how old your sons are? The biggest mistake I made with my own children was covering for their dad. I mean when he lied about why things happened or what was wrong with him I stayed silent. Finally something slipped out one day when AH had a temper tantrum over him trying to get us to eat the raw chicken he had cooked on the grill. One of my kids said" wow why is he so butthurt" and I said "he's drunk" before I could even think about it and then my other child says "it happens all the time when he's drinking". I at first felt bad about the slip but then my kids actually started speaking about all they had seen (that I thought I had protected them from.) Anyway the reason I am sharing, covering for him or being silent involves the kids in the dysfunctional dance. Again my experience only. Hoping you're having a better day today.

PerSe

Hello dawnrising,

Oh yes, I relate to your post. Yes, I have covered and honestly I probably still do in subtle and not so subtle ways, i.e., "you're dad isn't feeling too great" instead of "your dad is hungover today".

What your child said "happens all the time when he's drinking.." I wonder if this might be a window of opportunity for you to connect with your children on the topic of his alcohol use? My two are 11 and 9, and similarly THEY are the ones that each independently asked me "does dad drink too much?". I took this as a sign that they were ready to know and that, really, they already did know. So I did answer them truthfully while trying to keep it all in terms of what they seem emotionally ready to handle.

I will say that it felt, still feels, risky to talk with them about AH's drinking because I think he would be really angry if he knew I talked with them about it. I think the secretiveness and compartmentalization of feelings and information is part of how the family is affected by alcoholism. It's tense and painful right?! I figure I will just deal with it when and if he finds out.

Kind of funny, my AH fancies himself a grill master too. Ugh raw chicken!

I hope this was helpful in some way and I just wish you the most peace and wellness. You are not alone!

Lunchbox1

Bernadette

Also, and even more alarming, is I feel like he is almost grooming our boys to become his drinking buddies later on the same way he was his mom's drinking buddy for so many years. It's gross.

It's beyond gross.
I'll never know what difference it could have made if someone, anyone, any sober, sane, rational adult had spoken to us honestly and frequently as kids about what we were living: alcoholism. If someone had pointed out that it was the alcohol that made for fun Dad and the alcohol that made for hungover horrendous Dad and that it was the codependency that made for Insane Mom and Enraged Mom and Phony Mom.......would it have helped any of my 3 brothers from becoming alcoholics? We'll never know, and what miserable, difficult, painful lives they've had as alcoholics. And what a miserable time I had recreating the codie dynamic in my first marriage. AlAnon and years of therapy finally broke my learned behavior.

Please y'all, talk MORE to your children about alcoholism. Get them counseling and help. Don't fool yourself that they don't need it, or that they don't know what's going on and aren't affected - that's part of your illness of denial!!

You never get the chance to go back in time. Let the A get mad. Protect the minor children, now, and every day, anything else is dancing to the A's drummer and scoring points for Team Alcohol.

((((hugs to all))) I know it's a struggle.
Peace,
B.

mylifeismine

Well said Bernadette.
They don't call it the family disease of alcoholism for nothing.
The children learn early to not feel, not talk, not believe their own reality.
Everyone with kids who decides to remain with an active alcoholic
should make sure the kids are in therapy so they have the best
chance for healthy intimate relationships when they are adults.
I will always regret i didn't for my kids. I cannot deny they were
affected now.