sunk-cost fallacy

Old 01-30-2019, 03:18 PM
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sunk-cost fallacy

"sunk-cost fallacy -- that's when you think because you spent x amount of money or time on something, you should stick it out or the money and time will be wasted. However, you're never going to get that money/time back anyway; it's gone."

Thank you for posting this Opheliakatz, in another thread. It led me to doing some reading around this subject and has really helped to move me along in my process.
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Old 02-04-2019, 03:00 AM
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"O you must wear your rue with difference".
 
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Thanks Amaranth. I'm glad it helped.

Marie Kondo has a version of this that's a little more simplistic: keep what sparks joy. In other words, don't hoard stuff you don't really want just because you've paid for it. Not only is the spent money already gone, but the material things you keep in your life have ongoing maintainence costs.

When it comes to people, you should get out what you put in... . And when the person you're with shows you that they're not capable of making deposits anymore, they should not be able to continue to withdraw from the bank of YOU.
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Old 02-05-2019, 12:39 PM
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I guess what I'm really struggling with at the moment is letting go of my old life when I haven't got a new one to invest in....yet

Apart from the drinking and it's effects, I had everything I wanted. And yes I invested years of blood, sweat and tears in building a really nice life. It's time for me to let go of it all now and to get my health back.

Once I'm better I can build another life but it's a scary place, letting go of the old when the new is not yet in sight.
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Old 02-06-2019, 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Amaranth View Post
I guess what I'm really struggling with at the moment is letting go of my old life when I haven't got a new one to invest in....yet

Apart from the drinking and it's effects, I had everything I wanted. And yes I invested years of blood, sweat and tears in building a really nice life.
At the risk of sounding like an obnoxious know-it-all... "apart from the drinking and its effects" is fallacious. The reason I say this is because our lives need to be looked at as a whole, not as parts.

Imagine looking at a building and saying, apart from those styrofoam bricks over there, those other clay bricks make the building look good. Does that make sense? So in a way, you're letting go of things that actually did not serve you no matter how much bodily fluids you expelled during the building process.

When you leave a life stage or phase, a new one isn't waiting for you to step into; you have to create it. Initially, when I was leaving my relationship, I did not know where to start "creating" my new life. But the idea that I would know "where to start" is also a mistake -- that's assuming that the act of creation actually has an instruction booklet. It's best to just start with what you need: money, food and water, shelter, exercise, better sleep, better relationships... the basics. The rest follows if you keep cleaning up after yourself. As I discovered myself, I slowly shed things that were not "me": clothes, furniture, appliances, books... other things I collected that marked moments of time in the relationship (there are always more than you think you know). I am slowly replacing those things that I deem necessary with versions that I feel are more "me" and less "us".

If it doesn't scare you, challenge you, and make you feel like you're at least trying to make one of your childhood dreams come true, it's not going to make you grow. EVEN IF YOU FAIL, you will still grow from the experience of starting again from failure.

I imagine where I would be today if I had not left my toxic codependent, abusive relationship. I would be standing still, both literally and figuratively, watching someone slowly, compulsively, try to kill themselves through the most pleasurable way THEY think they can, even until the point where they got no pleasure from it. I would grow old before I am old. I would eventually stop moving altogether (and in fact, I had gained a lot of weight while I was in the relationship). Life is getting better day by day as long as I am busy living it.

Now, I'm not going to lie, I think about what I "lost" every day. But more and more often I don't think of what could have been... I think of the lost time. I think of how much better off I would be today had I never met my exAH. I could be healthier today if I had never met my exAH. But thinking about lost time is... a waste of the time I have.
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Old 02-06-2019, 07:33 AM
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Also, how long do we continue to invest in a relationship that takes everything and gives nothing back?
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Old 02-06-2019, 11:45 AM
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I don't think I've made myself very clear. I'm not talking about losing the relationship, that has well and truly gone. I'm talking about actually losing my whole life.
At the risk of going on about my story and sounding self pitying, I'll do a quick summary. I moved out of our house over a year ago. I was living at a neighbour's house, 2 minutes walk from mine, so I could be near my kids and keep working my farm. It was clear that I could no longer live with an alcoholic and that my husband would never stop drinking. By separating we both got what we wanted. We talked about building me a house on our farm so I could carry on running my business, tending my goats and he wouldn't be forced into selling the house that we built together. For a while I thought that might happen.

He went on a giant bender all summer, got a girlfriend. I got sick in September had a hysterectomy, got diagnosed with cancer, had a second operation and have now had the all clear from cancer but I am still being monitored and it's a long recovery from a second surgery.I've still got loads of hospital appointments. I can't work. My farm must be a total disaster zone by now and my goats died while they were staying with the neighbour.

So when I say I need a new life, it's not just the relationship I'm talking about. My husband has the house and the farm. He was never interested in the farm, that was my thing. I'm not strong enough to fight for it at the moment. I'm not strong enough to live there. At the moment I feel like I could never even bear to go back there.
I am renting a nice house in town where my kids come a lot. That is good. I will have no way to pay for it when the sickness benefits stop.
I've let go of what I've invested in the relationship but I find it hard to let go of the trees I planted, the business I built up and the childhood dream I realised. I had my own successful little working farm and I was happy with that even if my husband was always in the bar.
My farm did serve me and it's hard to let it go. I worked so hard on it. Yes, something else will come into my life but I am scared for my future.
My husband has behaved horribly throughout my illness. Yes that hurts and I'm perfectly able to move on without him but I just feel like I've got so little to work with at the moment.
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Old 02-06-2019, 02:11 PM
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Amaranth - you don't sound self pitying. omg - what a trying time you have been through.

It must be incredibly frustrating to not have the strength to fight back but remember, you won't always feel that way. All is not lost. It may be that when you settle all of this you can either end up with the farm or proceeds that might enable you to buy another, smaller one?

I don't know what size it is, could it perhaps be subdivided?

All that aside, you have come through the worst, you are on the mend and things will get better. There is frustration in waiting, but don't give up hope that you can sort this out when you are ready.

Are any of the things I mentioned feasible at all?
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Old 02-06-2019, 02:36 PM
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Amaranth......you have been through a lot! I am a medical person, myself....and, yet, when I had emergency major surgery, one time....(ruptured ectopic pregnancy...with massive hemorrhage)…..I was shocked...shocked...at how long it took me to get all my strength back and return to completely "normal"....
Like trailmix said....have faith that you will not always feel this way....this, too shall pass.....Just focus on getting your physical and emotional strength back.....and, the rest will follow....
You sound like a strong, survivor type person...to just get this far!
I know you will make a new life for yourself....
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Old 02-06-2019, 04:14 PM
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I am very glad to hear that you are cancer free. What a relief that must be!
Recovery after two surgeries will, as you are aware, take time, and I imagine it is difficult to be patient. I know I would have a hard time with it.
I don't know if you will be able to replicate your old life when you have healed and gained strength.
Right now, I would say, rest, heal, do what you need to do to get stronger and try not to think too much about what your life will be like.
I believe that things pretty much go the way they are meant to.
And grieve the loss of your farm and business for as long as you need to.
I was a teacher.
I loved teaching.
I came to it relatively late, but I felt it was something I was born to do.
I did it for a long time, and slowly, insidiously, I came to really, really dislike teaching.
The parents, the kids, the administration, the lack of respect for the profession.
It's hard when something you loved doing is gone or no longer gives you joy.
but...my life went on. I left teaching, did some volunteering at an environmental stewardship organization and met a bunch of nice, like minded people.
Eventually I got a part time "retirement" job at a big box store that, it turns out, I like a lot.
It seems that I have this crazy customer service ethic. And enjoy putting people together with products that work for them. Who knew?
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Amaranth View Post
I don't think I've made myself very clear. I'm not talking about losing the relationship, that has well and truly gone. I'm talking about actually losing my whole life.
Hi Amaranth, I don't think you sound self-pitying. You have gone through a lot and you would naturally feel grief. I also didn't think you were only talking about the relationship. In my case, my entire life was different when I was in the relationship than when I am out of it now. I have no financial security now. I have no home -- I am renting a room from friends. I have no car... etc. I also lost a lot of friends. I lost my career. I lost my health. I also had surgeries. At the time, I felt as if I was losing everything I knew and looking at a life that was totally nothing, empty. But at the time, the nothingness was preferable to every single thing I had if I also had to remain in the relationship. In retrospect, I wasn't my "true" self back then (and I'm not just talking about my relationship, I am talking about the things I chose to accept in general). I am not sure if me saying that helps or not... . I'm still trying to rebuild my life and it's been a while... but at least it's my life.

I believe that things will come in time when we're busy living.
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Old 02-08-2019, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by trailmix View Post
Amaranth - you don't sound self pitying. omg - what a trying time you have been through.

It must be incredibly frustrating to not have the strength to fight back but remember, you won't always feel that way. All is not lost. It may be that when you settle all of this you can either end up with the farm or proceeds that might enable you to buy another, smaller one?

I don't know what size it is, could it perhaps be subdivided?

All that aside, you have come through the worst, you are on the mend and things will get better. There is frustration in waiting, but don't give up hope that you can sort this out when you are ready.

Are any of the things I mentioned feasible at all?
yes they are feasible. on a practical level. We has discussed early on in the separation that we would build a house for me on the farm. But now? Well, it didn't happen and I doubt it would now. I don't even think I would like that anymore.
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Old 02-08-2019, 12:56 PM
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Thank for your your replies and for sharing. It's good to be reminded that others too have hard times and manage to get to the other side of them.

I had a real nose dive this week. I guess I'm grieving. I pushed myself too hard physically and emotionally. I hear what you are all saying...patience. Patience. It's very challenging for a normally very active person to stay still for so long. Over the last couple of days I have rested, I've been to meditation, I have spent time with good people that care about me. One said to me:

"people that are always looking in the rear view mirror when they are driving wonder why they crash"

Its often the simple phrases that help to get me out of the black hole I get myself into by torturing myself with my thoughts.

Today I realised I have not lost everything. I still have my experience, my skills, everything I have learned in the time I have been farming. I have my network of friends and farmers. I got offered two opportunities today. I'm not well enough to do them yet but they might still be there when I'm ready. Or there might be others.

So patience, rest, meditation and soon I will be able to identify as a well person again. The rest will follow.

thank you all for your experience strength and hope
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Old 02-08-2019, 04:40 PM
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All right! That's the ticket.
Get well and strong.
I have had a bad cold this week, and missed two days of work. My colleague has been off as well, so it was a bit of a disaster when I went in. Phone calls to return to unhappy people who have been trying to reach us for two days, my aisle was a mess, and there was a ton of stock to put away.
I was very disheartened.
But here's my point: part of my mental state is because I am not feeling well.
It's hard to be cheery and upbeat when one is just not feeling 100 percent.
You will feel better. In fact, you sound better already, and things will look better as you heal.
Lean into your network of friends and colleagues. We do better together.
Good thoughts.
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Old 02-09-2019, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Amaranth View Post
"people that are always looking in the rear view mirror when they are driving wonder why they crash"
Well, I'm certainly guilty of that! I think that grief is complicated -- some days can feel okay then suddenly grief comes at you like a wave, and you feel like you're being pushed out to sea. The tides always comes back though. Hang in there.
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Old 02-09-2019, 07:02 AM
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Amaranth, this article showed up in my email today. I plan to post it in the forum as its own thread but wanted to put it here too in case you might find something helpful in it.

https://onbeing.org/blog/the-wisdom-of-shattering/
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