When you find it hard to love yourself.
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Originally Posted by FireSprite 
Me too. I've done a LOT of different kinds of these tests - both for my own curiosity & for work/team-building exercises.... I thought I'd been pretty well analyzed.
But the stuff I read over the weekend goes over a whole new side of things about me in a way that really drilled into a lot of details I don't normally get from other resources.... especially related to my ongoing FOO issues. Big AHA moments - scary but woohoo, lol.
This has been something I keep coming back to in my recovery because one of my biggest challenges is not feeling any sort of bond to my mother outside of things like obligation & guilt. (& I've read some of the research done on children in orphanages) It feels like I've done something wrong because I can't find this attachment no matter how hard I try. In reality my mom just didn't have the skills necessary to bond on her side as a young mother & an infant can't be responsible for forming healthy bonds with their parent so I needed to let myself off the hook for feeling responsible to fix this issue.
Mom was barely out of her own abusive situation & my paternal grandmother literally interrupted the bonding process by inserting herself into my life as a surrogate mother figure starting very, very early. (I didn't find this out until recently - that g'ma would let herself into our apartment in the mornings, get me up out of my crib & do all those things moms usually do - feeding, bathing, all that & mom would never challenge her authority nor did she have any idea how to draw & enforce healthy boundaries for either of us.)
So how to do that in my mid-40's with an aging mother who is nowhere NEAR ready to hear, digest or correct any of this? How do you fake it with something like BONDING? How do you work at creating it when only 1 side understands what you're even working toward? (not expecting answers here, just hypothesizing)
Sorry to keep derailing you Glen - this all really deserves it's own thread.
But the stuff I read over the weekend goes over a whole new side of things about me in a way that really drilled into a lot of details I don't normally get from other resources.... especially related to my ongoing FOO issues. Big AHA moments - scary but woohoo, lol.
This has been something I keep coming back to in my recovery because one of my biggest challenges is not feeling any sort of bond to my mother outside of things like obligation & guilt. (& I've read some of the research done on children in orphanages) It feels like I've done something wrong because I can't find this attachment no matter how hard I try. In reality my mom just didn't have the skills necessary to bond on her side as a young mother & an infant can't be responsible for forming healthy bonds with their parent so I needed to let myself off the hook for feeling responsible to fix this issue.
Mom was barely out of her own abusive situation & my paternal grandmother literally interrupted the bonding process by inserting herself into my life as a surrogate mother figure starting very, very early. (I didn't find this out until recently - that g'ma would let herself into our apartment in the mornings, get me up out of my crib & do all those things moms usually do - feeding, bathing, all that & mom would never challenge her authority nor did she have any idea how to draw & enforce healthy boundaries for either of us.)
So how to do that in my mid-40's with an aging mother who is nowhere NEAR ready to hear, digest or correct any of this? How do you fake it with something like BONDING? How do you work at creating it when only 1 side understands what you're even working toward? (not expecting answers here, just hypothesizing)
Sorry to keep derailing you Glen - this all really deserves it's own thread.
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Originally Posted by Glenjo99
These are great questions you pose. How do we do it?
I don't know exactly but I do know we'll only ever find those answers on our side of the street - never through examining someone else's actions & reactions or spending time wondering what they think & why.
For me, every baby step takes me to the next. I don't know the precise path, I just know the direction I'm headed in today.
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Originally Posted by FireSprite
You were faster than me - I edited my post while you were responding, lol.
I don't know exactly but I do know we'll only ever find those answers on our side of the street - never through examining someone else's actions & reactions or spending time wondering what they think & why.
For me, every baby step takes me to the next. I don't know the precise path, I just know the direction I'm headed in today.
I don't know exactly but I do know we'll only ever find those answers on our side of the street - never through examining someone else's actions & reactions or spending time wondering what they think & why.
For me, every baby step takes me to the next. I don't know the precise path, I just know the direction I'm headed in today.
I was never close to my Father, would it have been nice to have a Disney Dad? I suppose so (I call Tom Hanks my Dad haha) - but that's not who he was and he was ok, just as he was - so am I.
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Originally Posted by FireSprite
You were faster than me - I edited my post while you were responding, lol.
I don't know exactly but I do know we'll only ever find those answers on our side of the street - never through examining someone else's actions & reactions or spending time wondering what they think & why.
For me, every baby step takes me to the next. I don't know the precise path, I just know the direction I'm headed in today.
I don't know exactly but I do know we'll only ever find those answers on our side of the street - never through examining someone else's actions & reactions or spending time wondering what they think & why.
For me, every baby step takes me to the next. I don't know the precise path, I just know the direction I'm headed in today.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
Maybe at least part of the answer is just accepting people where they are. They are as they are, you can't change that. Expectations of how things "should" be are guaranteed to trip you up.
I was never close to my Father, would it have been nice to have a Disney Dad? I suppose so (I call Tom Hanks my Dad haha) - but that's not who he was and he was ok, just as he was - so am I.
I was never close to my Father, would it have been nice to have a Disney Dad? I suppose so (I call Tom Hanks my Dad haha) - but that's not who he was and he was ok, just as he was - so am I.
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I agree with acceptance & I hear it all the time here at SR.
I actually think I AM accepting - right down to accepting that she isn't changing & no amount of time passing is going to make interacting with her any easier until she does. I accept that she doesn't see the need for growth or possibility for change on her side of the relationship.
For us acceptance has had to include LC/NC because it's the only way I've been able to maintain my boundaries & sanity. Acceptance is a helluva lot easier when you don't have new contact continually ripping the scabs off old wounds. Acceptance means I also put my needs first & I need to not be surprised by triggers detonating every time I turn around.
My expectations are things like - I expect my mother to not passive-aggressively try to manipulate me, but in reality that's exactly what will happen more often than not. I don't think ALL expectations are unreasonable. I don't have any expectation of a perfect or even truly healed relationship - I just expect to be accepted myself. LOL!
I actually think I AM accepting - right down to accepting that she isn't changing & no amount of time passing is going to make interacting with her any easier until she does. I accept that she doesn't see the need for growth or possibility for change on her side of the relationship.
For us acceptance has had to include LC/NC because it's the only way I've been able to maintain my boundaries & sanity. Acceptance is a helluva lot easier when you don't have new contact continually ripping the scabs off old wounds. Acceptance means I also put my needs first & I need to not be surprised by triggers detonating every time I turn around.
My expectations are things like - I expect my mother to not passive-aggressively try to manipulate me, but in reality that's exactly what will happen more often than not. I don't think ALL expectations are unreasonable. I don't have any expectation of a perfect or even truly healed relationship - I just expect to be accepted myself. LOL!
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Originally Posted by FireSprite
I agree with acceptance & I hear it all the time here at SR.
I actually think I AM accepting - right down to accepting that she isn't changing & no amount of time passing is going to make interacting with her any easier until she does. I accept that she doesn't see the need for growth or possibility for change on her side of the relationship.
For us acceptance has had to include LC/NC because it's the only way I've been able to maintain my boundaries & sanity. Acceptance is a helluva lot easier when you don't have new contact continually ripping the scabs off old wounds. Acceptance means I also put my needs first & I need to not be surprised by triggers detonating every time I turn around.
My expectations are things like - I expect my mother to not passive-aggressively try to manipulate me, but in reality that's exactly what will happen more often than not. I don't think ALL expectations are unreasonable. I don't have any expectation of a perfect or even truly healed relationship - I just expect to be accepted myself. LOL!
I actually think I AM accepting - right down to accepting that she isn't changing & no amount of time passing is going to make interacting with her any easier until she does. I accept that she doesn't see the need for growth or possibility for change on her side of the relationship.
For us acceptance has had to include LC/NC because it's the only way I've been able to maintain my boundaries & sanity. Acceptance is a helluva lot easier when you don't have new contact continually ripping the scabs off old wounds. Acceptance means I also put my needs first & I need to not be surprised by triggers detonating every time I turn around.
My expectations are things like - I expect my mother to not passive-aggressively try to manipulate me, but in reality that's exactly what will happen more often than not. I don't think ALL expectations are unreasonable. I don't have any expectation of a perfect or even truly healed relationship - I just expect to be accepted myself. LOL!
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Have you caught any of Bruce Lipton's work - either through youtube or his books & other resources?
Yes, we can change our biology through belief & we DO all the time in negative ways without realizing it.
Yes it takes time, but time is passing one way or another; it's up to us to either use it or waste it, right?
Yes, we can change our biology through belief & we DO all the time in negative ways without realizing it.
Yes it takes time, but time is passing one way or another; it's up to us to either use it or waste it, right?
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They have found alcoholism can change DNA. The body and mind are powerful.
FS, I know the bonding issue with your Mom is hurtful and I hope my acceptance comments didn't come off as dismissive, I don't think that way at all.
I have the benefit of hindsight. My Father passed away a while ago. I have had time to review, as I did when he was alive. I have an acceptance, I think I always have. Early on there was anger and resentment but that faded away as I saw him for just who he was. Now, I did the best I could (including not speaking to him for a year, which he found terribly hurtful).
He was mean a lot of the time, short tempered, bossy, he liked me, I know that at least. He could also be very kind.
I didn't expect him to treat me with respect or kindness or consideration, which is not to say that I wasn't appalled at his behaviour sometimes or that I didn't get angry, I was and I did but LC was a good move. Also, I had one of my siblings here most of the time, buffers are grand things!
FS, I know the bonding issue with your Mom is hurtful and I hope my acceptance comments didn't come off as dismissive, I don't think that way at all.
I have the benefit of hindsight. My Father passed away a while ago. I have had time to review, as I did when he was alive. I have an acceptance, I think I always have. Early on there was anger and resentment but that faded away as I saw him for just who he was. Now, I did the best I could (including not speaking to him for a year, which he found terribly hurtful).
He was mean a lot of the time, short tempered, bossy, he liked me, I know that at least. He could also be very kind.
I didn't expect him to treat me with respect or kindness or consideration, which is not to say that I wasn't appalled at his behaviour sometimes or that I didn't get angry, I was and I did but LC was a good move. Also, I had one of my siblings here most of the time, buffers are grand things!
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Originally Posted by FireSprite
Have you caught any of Bruce Lipton's work - either through youtube or his books & other resources?
Yes, we can change our biology through belief & we DO all the time in negative ways without realizing it.
Yes it takes time, but time is passing one way or another; it's up to us to either use it or waste it, right?
Yes, we can change our biology through belief & we DO all the time in negative ways without realizing it.
Yes it takes time, but time is passing one way or another; it's up to us to either use it or waste it, right?
Yes Bruce liptons stuff is very good. Amazing how easy we find it to latch onto negative beliefs and not the good ones. Change is needed in that.
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No offense at all trail - I didn't take it that way, I know you're just being helpful.
My situation is my own - and a little complicated in that it's live & kicking & can pop up in my path on any given day. DD is affected & can't pretend she isn't - that alone creates conversation & puts attention on this part of my dysfunction. I'm being heavily judged for my boundaries & have told my mom pretty much everything I've ever shared here at SR when she has continually needled me. I've been honest & clear so I feel like I'm handling it with integrity to the best of my ability.
I just still keep finding stuff in that rabbit hole that helps me understand how much of my synaptic wiring is faulty & in need of renovation.
My recovery is a living experiment that proves exactly how a strong mind, body & spirit can work together to create ANY kind of change.
My situation is my own - and a little complicated in that it's live & kicking & can pop up in my path on any given day. DD is affected & can't pretend she isn't - that alone creates conversation & puts attention on this part of my dysfunction. I'm being heavily judged for my boundaries & have told my mom pretty much everything I've ever shared here at SR when she has continually needled me. I've been honest & clear so I feel like I'm handling it with integrity to the best of my ability.
I just still keep finding stuff in that rabbit hole that helps me understand how much of my synaptic wiring is faulty & in need of renovation.
My recovery is a living experiment that proves exactly how a strong mind, body & spirit can work together to create ANY kind of change.
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Came across an article tonight!
For those who are less fortunate and do not have a naturally secure style, there is the possibility of "earned security:" developing a secure style through relationships and interactions in adulthood. Security may also flourish in the context of friendships and psychotherapy, however, it comes primarily through adult romantic relationships. The strategy for creating an earned secure adult attachment style involves reconciling childhood experiences, as well as making sense of the impact the past has had on the present and future.
Makes sense.
For those who are less fortunate and do not have a naturally secure style, there is the possibility of "earned security:" developing a secure style through relationships and interactions in adulthood. Security may also flourish in the context of friendships and psychotherapy, however, it comes primarily through adult romantic relationships. The strategy for creating an earned secure adult attachment style involves reconciling childhood experiences, as well as making sense of the impact the past has had on the present and future.
Makes sense.
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Originally Posted by FireSprite
I just still keep finding stuff in that rabbit hole that helps me understand how much of my synaptic wiring is faulty & in need of renovation.
Maybe clarity will flow more easily when you take a break from digging into the rabbit hole?
I mean, since nothing is ever done and nothing is ever finished, we won't ever get to some final perfect destination anyway!
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Originally Posted by Surfbee
Why dig so hard if it only regurgitates and compounds old narratives and issues that you're already aware of?
Someone shared info that was brand new to me, I read up on it as I do with almost EVERY topic that interests me & ended up finding stuff that might relate to me/my life. I didn't go searching or digging or trying to reactivate old wounds. I didn't go looking for it but it found me, and I benefited from it. I call that a win. I learned stuff about myself that I might not have pieced together otherwise, about an ACTIVE issue in my life. Score!
I rarely jump into the rabbit hole. More often that not, I get sucked into it's vacuum just trying to walk by.
Yes, it's a bit exhausting & sometimes painful. But I'll take that along with the growth it brings over the alternative of staying stuck and ignorant.
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Firesprite,
Sometimes the path towards growth is about changing the record.
In some cases the choice to avoid re-exposure is a healthy instinct. Choosing to focus on the life affirming action instead of the undermining thought can be a deeply sound decision.
Quote:
A compelling article by veteran, journalist and PTSD survivor David J. Morris, http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...e-trauma/?_r=0 suggests that for some people re-exposure to the trauma via Prolonged Exposure Therapy makes things worse. Instead of gaining mastery over the event, they deteriorate. On the other hand, moving away from the memory makes things better. Mr. Morris found that Cognitive Processing Therapy – expressing thoughts and feelings without re-immersing in the trauma, helped. While the event cannot be undone, it can be rendered far less important and overshadowed by other things if thoughts are re-directed.
I think it's pretty closed-minded to suggest that one would stay stuck and ignorant because they opt to take more breaks from digging into their rabbit hole - especially when one is already well aware of its contents.
Sometimes the path towards growth is about changing the record.
In some cases the choice to avoid re-exposure is a healthy instinct. Choosing to focus on the life affirming action instead of the undermining thought can be a deeply sound decision.
Quote:
A compelling article by veteran, journalist and PTSD survivor David J. Morris, http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...e-trauma/?_r=0 suggests that for some people re-exposure to the trauma via Prolonged Exposure Therapy makes things worse. Instead of gaining mastery over the event, they deteriorate. On the other hand, moving away from the memory makes things better. Mr. Morris found that Cognitive Processing Therapy – expressing thoughts and feelings without re-immersing in the trauma, helped. While the event cannot be undone, it can be rendered far less important and overshadowed by other things if thoughts are re-directed.
I think it's pretty closed-minded to suggest that one would stay stuck and ignorant because they opt to take more breaks from digging into their rabbit hole - especially when one is already well aware of its contents.
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I think you're reading far too much into what I'm saying & maybe taking it a bit personally.
I read NEW information, found correlations I wasn't looking for, said, "huh - that's interesting & new, thanks for sharing. I found out something new about myself." In no way did I suggest that it was triggering anything even remotely PTSD related- in fact, it connected dots I didn't even know could be connected. I shared almost NOTHING about the stuff I discovered and in all honesty it was empowering information, not at all damaging.... like I said - it exposed an area I can choose growth via new synaptical wiring.
Yes - when *I* have opportunities to learn/grow but *I* don't take them, *I* remain ignorant & stuck in *my* process.
I never compared this to anyone ELSE'S process - I was clearly talking about ME, in all of my shares here on this topic. We all go about it differently no matter how similar it can seem.
Not that I need to clarify this for anyone (but since I feel like I'm being very misunderstood): For the record, again, I absolutely DO take regular & total breaks from ALL of this. The majority of what I'm dealing with right now is NEW information & developments that have occurred in recent history - not stuff I'm dredging up because I just can't let go. I HAVE taken whatever steps I can toward limiting contact with old wounds - as my many, many threads can attest to.
I read NEW information, found correlations I wasn't looking for, said, "huh - that's interesting & new, thanks for sharing. I found out something new about myself." In no way did I suggest that it was triggering anything even remotely PTSD related- in fact, it connected dots I didn't even know could be connected. I shared almost NOTHING about the stuff I discovered and in all honesty it was empowering information, not at all damaging.... like I said - it exposed an area I can choose growth via new synaptical wiring.
Yes - when *I* have opportunities to learn/grow but *I* don't take them, *I* remain ignorant & stuck in *my* process.
I never compared this to anyone ELSE'S process - I was clearly talking about ME, in all of my shares here on this topic. We all go about it differently no matter how similar it can seem.
Not that I need to clarify this for anyone (but since I feel like I'm being very misunderstood): For the record, again, I absolutely DO take regular & total breaks from ALL of this. The majority of what I'm dealing with right now is NEW information & developments that have occurred in recent history - not stuff I'm dredging up because I just can't let go. I HAVE taken whatever steps I can toward limiting contact with old wounds - as my many, many threads can attest to.
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FireSprite- glad the info was helpful for you. When I first learned about bonding/ attachments, I had a similar reaction. Like, why didn’t anyone tell me about this before (including past therapists)?? It really helped me to re-examine myself, my family of origin/ unbringing, and relationships. It’s nice when a new piece of info helps clear things up, or helps us to understand ourselves and others better. 
.
.
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Originally Posted by FireSprite
Not that I need to clarify this for anyone (but since I feel like I'm being very misunderstood): For the record, again, I absolutely DO take regular & total breaks from ALL of this. The majority of what I'm dealing with right now is NEW information & developments that have occurred in recent history - not stuff I'm dredging up because I just can't let go. I HAVE taken whatever steps I can toward limiting contact with old wounds - as my many, many threads can attest to.
Mindfulness, self-awareness and insight are always good. Ignorance keeps us locked in our habitual patterns.
It is good to let go of our habitual patterns, but the only way to transcend them is to examine them, to understand them, to see how we create our unhappiness and hold ourselves back.
It also helps to be around other people who are doing the same.
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One of the things that I found most interesting on the site that I used for the test/results was how if you set up a profile, you can measure changes over time. (I can absolutely see this in my own path to this point - the movement through different stages of these labels due to changing relationships/circumstances in my world at the time.)
This has always been something that I find so difficult about things like predictive index tests because, in my understanding, they maintain that a person's base behavior does NOT change over time, no matter what. That goes against everything I know to be true about my process in recovery & my overall spiritual hope for mankind - that we are always capable of creating change.
Amen!
This has always been something that I find so difficult about things like predictive index tests because, in my understanding, they maintain that a person's base behavior does NOT change over time, no matter what. That goes against everything I know to be true about my process in recovery & my overall spiritual hope for mankind - that we are always capable of creating change.
Originally Posted by Needabreak
It also helps to be around other people who are doing the same.
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Originally Posted by FireSprite
One of the things that I found most interesting on the site that I used for the test/results was how if you set up a profile, you can measure changes over time. (I can absolutely see this in my own path to this point - the movement through different stages of these labels due to changing relationships/circumstances in my world at the time.)
This has always been something that I find so difficult about things like predictive index tests because, in my understanding, they maintain that a person's base behavior does NOT change over time, no matter what. That goes against everything I know to be true about my process in recovery & my overall spiritual hope for mankind - that we are always capable of creating change.
Amen!
This has always been something that I find so difficult about things like predictive index tests because, in my understanding, they maintain that a person's base behavior does NOT change over time, no matter what. That goes against everything I know to be true about my process in recovery & my overall spiritual hope for mankind - that we are always capable of creating change.
Amen!
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