Needabreak

Google "Anxious Avoidant Trap" to find out more about relationships where anxious are paired with avoidants. These are not healthy relationships, ever.

Yes, but it has been hard work to get here. Lots of painful self-examination. A big part of it for me was understanding my parents' and grandparents' issues and attachment styles. These things get passed down to us. In my case, I decided that the inherited family karma would stop with me. I will do the work to break the cycle.

Glenjo99

I know what you mean. I think part of me is a bit in awe of him, like I'm examing him from afar, amazing at how someone can feel so secure and self assured. He says I over analyse and that most things don't bother him. I heard a saying before, surround yourself with people you want to be like. The journey and hard work starts here, I'm determined to have a better relationship with myself however long it takes.

trailmix

So good to hear.

And again, please take a moment to consider what you were thinking he was about and how your text and date actually turned out!

About attachment styles, it's not just anxious and avoidant pairings that are tricky, when you get an avoidant or anxious and pair them up with a secure - that's tricky too! The secure is used to being, secure, the avoidant/anxious throws out all kinds of mixed up stuff which can be exasperating (for lack of a better word, I don't mean that in a negative way) for the secure. This doesn't really change a lot in my experience, unless the person is working on it and trying to see the other point of view (which you are).

This is not a criticism. By and large most of this can be worked out (and by the way the fact that Mr. Date took the time to discuss it speaks volumes about him, good for him - and you).

By the way, you don't have to love yourself just yet, how about just accepting yourself.

Glenjo99

Totally agree. The secure one does get exasperated by what an insecure throws out which is why I want to work on my stuff to manage this. Luckily he is open to talking about this stuff. So far.

I think it is too much of a jump to love myself right now from where I've been, so I like your idea of accepting myself at least. Accepting that I can be insecure, not all of the time but it's part of who I am, a work in progress as is often said in here. Hoping to start work with a new therapist soon to try working on some of this stuff.

DontRemember

Glad it worked out..I have a set of friends and hanging with/watching them is a trip! My buddy is like me personality wise,to a degree and his husband(also now my buddy) is the polar opposite and it 'evens them out' in their relationship. They're even one of the more balanced married couples I know. I will still caution you on not getting too emotionally attached 'clingy'<-I hate that word and not project too much from your last relationship onto this guy and his motives. He's not him and deserves the chance to show you who he is. Also...continue to heal/work on yourself and do your own things apart from him/him you. Take it slooowww. LOL My exAgf..when I look back now at the beggining of our relationship...she'd hardly give me room to breath and I didn't even know her that well..driving by my house when I said I was staying in,ect..why did I get/stay with her again?

Glenjo99

Thanks I know what you mean. It's important to give people space to breath aswell. I like taking things slow too, apart from weeks where anxiety kicks in and I feel the opposite. Slow and steady, being accepting of myself and him whilst doing the work on myself should help. This guy couldn't be more different than my ex if he tried which is the ironic part, the projection is my work.

Clover71

Clover71

trailmix

I actually have compassion for the exGF that drove by your house (no I haven't ever done this).

I'm going to guess she was a nice person aside from having a few issues? Were you drinking at the time?

It's a trust issue and that's tough, for her. It's a sign that something is amiss and could have been dealt with by reassuring her and talking it through (only you know if it's worth it to have that conversation).

Were you trustworthy, were you doing what you said you were? (I'm just curious lol)

Clover71

Glenjo99

Yes I do like spending time with him especially when he is so open to conversation. Met for a coffee today and we talked about the text message thing. He said that if it's a need for me then he will be happy to text me more. I thanked him for listening and being able to check in about things.

Inside I was thinking, this is absolutely amazing that someone is willing to listen and act. Healthy actually. I've never experienced that before. I expect it's in part due to my willingness to be vulnerable and his maturity and both wanting a healthy relationship.

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GotMyBackPack

Just wanted to thank everybody who has contributed to this thread. It has been eye-opening and full of such valuable insight.

DontRemember

I was a 'normal/casual drinker' at that time,but I'm talking like after 4 dates driving by my house! To me that's some highschool like/projection issues. And..yep..I was just home playing PS2(this was like 17yrs ago and I've upgraded) with my buddies online or hanging with my daughter(I had full custody). She didn't even tell me about doing that until like 3yrs in. It threw up a major redflag about what would eventually unfold during next decade+,but I chose to ignore it.

I don't blame my increased drinking on her at all anymore, since I've been sober(I could have ended it with her at any time),but it certainly didn't help.

FallenAngelina

This has zero to do with whether the other person is trustworthy. This is guidance from within yourself that this road of mistrust is not for you. It's a huge red "Wrong Way" sign. Nothing you want is down that road. When people say, "I have a bad feelings about this," it is never about this, it is always about their inner guidance telling them that whatever they are thinking is not the pathway to where they want to go. The answer is not to protect yourself from the other person, but to change your thinking.


Are you in a recovery/wellness program or active in AlAnon? Much as few alcoholics can change on their own, so we need a community of change and a road map. Trying to change on our own is usually very rough going and discouraging. The thinking patterns are just too entrenched for us to change by ourselves. What is your spiritual practice?

Glenjo99

I agree. I know he is trustworthy and any lack of trust is reflecting my lack of trust of myself. It's a form of projection and no other person can fill that hole or make me trust. It's my own stuff and I realise that.

It's different than the instinctual lack of trust I had in my ex. With him my instincts were telling me all types of things were wrong and I ignored them. So many red flags. The new guy doesn't set off those types of red flags.

As for my spiritual practice, I do yoga, try to meditate, see a counsellor every 2 weeks, read books and listen to podcasts. I did go to Al Anon but haven't been for a while, I think it would be good to go back

FallenAngelina

I encourage you to stay on this road of community supported wellness. New Guy is great, but remember that he does not have the sexual chemistry component, so will not bring up some of your deepest insecurities. Sexual attraction/intimacy is often where our soul-deep sprites come out to play. New Guy is a safe place. No one can jump from Horrible Guy to Wonderful Guy for lasting change. We eventually come to see how change can only happen within ourselves if we are to develop that secure attachment style in emotionally deep sexual intimacy that's been mentioned in this thread. I encourage you to keep going with AlAnon, even though you are not dating an alcoholic at the moment. AlAnon is first and foremost for us to work on ourselves, dealing with alcoholics is really a perk of the program.

Glenjo99

It has been on my mind to go back to alanon for a while now. I understand it is a big leap to go from horrible guy to wonderful guy in so short a time, for me though it's about believing I deserve better. My thinking is that his being secure will bring up my insecurities and thus allowing me to work on them in the relationship. Don't get me wrong there is intimacy which I enjoy, just not that ecstatic, can't live without you, fireworks, butterfly's in stomach that I had with my ex, and look where that got me. My thinking is I can build this over time with new guy, slowly.

I do want to build that secure attachment styles. Perhaps by observing him he can contribute to my learning as well as me doing the work on myself.

Everything I've read over last few months has said, not to pay attention to that huge chemistry, in fact run!

FallenAngelina

Re: sexual chemistry, it is nothing to fear and run from, in and of itself. It is a beautiful human experience, but for many of us it is fraught with emotional turmoil, insecurity and fear. I know that conventional wisdom would say that until we "heal," we cannot trust our sexual attractions, but I disagree. The trouble we are drawn to has a wealth of helpful information for us and actually contains the seeds of our peace. There's a lot to say on this subject and I won't derail the convo with it, but suffice to say for now that deep, relentless sexual attraction is not inherently suspect. It's definitely possible to evolve into a life in which we have sexual chemistry and emotional security.



The thing about healing is that it need not be a long, arduous process. Well being is ours for the choosing in every moment. Many of us likely need a lot of practice (AKA time) to get better at choosing good thoughts and healthier behaviors, but in every moment we have the opportunity of choice. Feeling secure and connected to our spirit is something that we can always choose.

Glenjo99

Doesn't have to be a hard arduous slog, although sometimes it feels like it. The journey is the thing and I'm hoping I can work on stuff while dating this new guy, however long it lasts. What I'm realising is that some people say run from chemistry and others say it's good.

For now I'm going with the no chemistry, but nice intimacy and seeing how it goes. It's new for me, I've never done this before, I've always gone for hollywood romance type scenarios full of fireworks, so it's time to try different.

FireSprite

Me too. I've done a LOT of different kinds of these tests - both for my own curiosity & for work/team-building exercises.... I thought I'd been pretty well analyzed.

But the stuff I read over the weekend goes over a whole new side of things about me in a way that really drilled into a lot of details I don't normally get from other resources.... especially related to my ongoing FOO issues. Big AHA moments - scary but woohoo, lol.

This has been something I keep coming back to in my recovery because one of my biggest challenges is not feeling any sort of bond to my mother outside of things like obligation & guilt. (& I've read some of the research done on children in orphanages) It feels like I've done something wrong because I can't find this attachment no matter how hard I try. In reality my mom just didn't have the skills necessary to bond on her side as a young mother & an infant can't be responsible for forming healthy bonds with their parent, so I needed to let myself off the hook for feeling responsible to fix this issue.

Mom was barely out of her own abusive situation & my paternal grandmother literally interrupted the bonding process by inserting herself into my life as a surrogate mother figure starting very, very early. (I didn't find this out until recently - that g'ma would let herself into our apartment in the mornings, get me up out of my crib & do all those things moms usually do - feeding, bathing, all that & mom would never challenge her authority nor did she have any idea how to draw & enforce healthy boundaries for either of us.)

So how to do that in my mid-40's with an aging mother who is nowhere NEAR ready to hear, digest or correct any of this? How do you fake it with something like BONDING? How do you work at creating it when only 1 side understands what you're even working toward? (not expecting answers here, just hypothesizing)

Sorry to keep derailing you Glen - this all really deserves it's own thread. Then again - maybe not. These ARE the kinds of deeply rooted questions you should be asking yourself Glen - whatever struggles you are facing now are likely tied at least in some small ways to old junk like this that is unresolved in your life. These are the kinds of exercises in recovery that propel me forward, not examining anybody else's actions or behaviors.