Benni

We traveled to Cuba, a few months after being released from the hospital, and it was a horrible experience.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to criticise.

Bekindalways

Apologies Benni. You mentioned what he thought about Alanon so I mistakenly understood that you thought Alanon was for him. Sounds like you understand the difference and I hope realize that he probably isn't anywhere near going to AA. As long as you are willing to look into Alanon that is what matters even if it is just an online meeting.

Anger is a tough one. Although I've found and read that venting really doesn't help. It is better, more constructive and healthier to take a mindful approach to it. Don't react to it and don't push it away. Let the anger come and let it go. Again and again and again. It is not natural to do but it can be helpful. Meditation teaches this in a way.

I take it, it was a vacation to Cuba? Vacationing with drunks is pretty miserable so no one here will be very surprised on that one. We get stories of horrid vacations with Alcoholics pretty regularly. Ugh. Not fun.

Traveling back to the US alone would probably be miserable too but may be better without him.

I hope you don't feel we are making light of your situation. It sounds beyond horrible. Also sounds like you have pretty limited options. Ugh.

Benni

Yes, the trip to Cuba was a winter vacation we take every year, and he is drunk ALWAYS, the whole 2 months. But the airport experience was not good either.

I will try your method of handling the anger, it will be very hard to do.

No, I don't feel anyone is making light of my situation, just trying to make me see the "light".

trailmix

In order to not react to his drunken baiting, you have to look at it a different way. If you just look at it as him attacking you, of course you are going to react.

- He is not drinking "at" you, he is just drinking, it's what alcoholics do.

- You didn't Cause it, can't Control is and can't Cure it.

- Do you think your engaging in arguments is controlling this situation at all? No. Let go of that, you are not in control of his drunken ramblings.

- I think someone also mentioned above, keep your responses (if absolutely necessary) to one or two words. Ummhmm, oh, you may be right, oh, that's too bad. This way you can acknowledge that he has spoken without engaging. Some things said don't require a response at all, you don't have to engage in the "conversation" you can just say nothing at all.

No, you shouldn't hold your anger in but being angry all the time isn't good for you either, whether you vent that or not. You are wasting your energy talking to him when he is drunk, as you mentioned he doesn't usually remember half of it and regardless, he is not acting on any of your concerns. Far better to not get angry in the first place and to do that you need to detach yourself somewhat.

-You mention that he is retired. Is it possible you could suggest to him that he go back to work part-time?

- I would very much encourage you to seek individual therapy if at all possible. Specifically choosing a therapist that has experience with addiction.

Benni

Thank you for the great advice!

No, he will not go back to work part-time.

I am seriously going to look into counseling, help me cope better,

Bekindalways

I hope you can find a good therapist. It sounds like you need all the help you can get.

You might look for one of the Quackers threads. We call Alcoholic talk "quacking" as it doesn't make much sense and should be given as much importance as a duck quacking. Some people imagine a duck sitting on their A's head the entire time they talk. Engaging with a drunk makes as much sense as engaging with a duck. This is why we try to disengage and say, "Mmm-hmm", "You may be right.", "Okay.".

However that you are hurt and are angry makes total sense. This is completely normal to feel this way. I kind of think of anger like bleeding when you are cut. It isn't good or bad; it is just a consequence.

As you come to expect him to act like a drunk, you may be able to disengage and let go more. Alcoholics do crazy horrible things. It isn't against you; it is just the nature of the disease.

Big hug to you and let us know how you get on. You are walking one hell of a path that none of us would wish on you.

Benni

Thank you for the kind words, and advice.

I feel I must give some background info on myself.

I was married for 18 years to an alcoholic. He beat me terribly, isolated me from friends and family. It was a living nightmare. I, finally, did run away. I lived alone for 15 years and vowed I would never fall for a drinker again.

Whence I met hubs, I was very cautious and eventually let him know that being a drunk was a huge no-no for me. In all the times we dated I never saw him drunk, except for his birthday party which I understood. He said he only drinks 3 drinks a day. But he didn't say his measuring device was a coffee mug, not a shot glass.
He was a great loving, affectionate, charming man.

That all ended the day after our wedding. Even then, he was funny, loving. Over the years, he has escalated -- or have I? Letting my disappointment, anger get worse?

Am I projecting my last marriage onto this one? He would never physically hurt me, yet I get afraid when he raises his voice to me. He does set off certain triggers that make me nervous, afraid.

I used to scoff at women saying how horrible emotional abuse was (compared to physical abuse), now I know better, and feel shame for thinking that.

atalose

I don’t think you are projecting it as much as you are living it again shy of the physically abuse. The isolation is with your inability to talk about this with any of your friends or family. The inability to get up and leave the house when his verbal abuse begins.

You should look into “detaching with love” from alcoholic behaviors I’m sure you can find a lot about that online. Learn not to let his behaviors get to you by taking them personally and learn not to engage back with verbal assaults when his behaviors act up.

When we choose to live with untreated active alcoholism sadly we also choose the behaviors.

Benni

Thank you. I'll research that now.

Bernadette

Hi Benni welcome!!
No, I am not thinking of leaving him. I love him and, when he's not had too much to drink, he is such a lovely man.

Yes, this is the tragedy for all of us. All of our As are different and lovable when sober…it took me a long time to understand that the drunk person IS the person. Until they find real recovery and actually change I cause myself a lot of suffering by pining for the sober person, by assuming that the sober person is the “real” person. Yet people I know who recovered are actually very different from their sober selves while in the throes of alcoholism, because that sober person was working for Team Alcohol, sober hours or days are still part of active alcoholism, does that make sense? Real recovery and sobriety reveal a very different person.

I lived alone for 15 years and vowed I would never fall for a drinker again.

I also vowed never to marry a drinker because I grew up w/ an A Father and was surrounded by 3 A brothers. I didn't marry a drinker but yet I perfectly recreated the dynamic in my parent's marriage with me trying to change my exH, and wishing he would change, all the while not changing myself and becoming more and more enraged and frustrated. Yuk.

Luckily I got out after only 7 years, but it was the therapy I did after that marriage that allowed me to put down the magnifying glass and look in the mirror. I had to work hard on changing myself if I wanted a new kind of relationship, one that wasn't predicated on that alkie/normie dynamic.

So I'm curious why is it still not a dealbreaker? You vowed to never marry another drinker, but here you are married to a drinker. Didn't you feel tricked?? I mean it is a pretty big deal! I would be furious, with my partner and with myself!! Having this physical limitation that forces you to be dependent on him complicates things, but that's not a reason to endure a lousy marriage or be subjected to a front row seat to someone's addiction. I'm not suggesting you leave him, not at all, but just reading your words about vowing to never marry another alcoholic gave me chills. You are still that free person who made that vow.

In the hospital where I work the social workers have lists and lists of agencies and groups that help people with mobility issues and any physical limitations, the hospital that treated your stroke originally should have similar lists of available options for transportation help and counseling.

You said you are independent and strong and I believe you! Maybe by reaching out beyond your AH you can establish some normal freedom and breathing room with someone's help besides him. Even if it's just an independent ride twice a week to the library or to a book club or therapy or any other activity; just something you do on your own without relying on him who can't drive after drinking. I mean even in a good relationship with a non alcoholic we all need our own space and time. I hope you can eek some of that out for yourself!!

Do you have friends who can take you places or friends who come over to hang out and visit you? Friends are a "coping skill!"

Are you still able to create your art? I sure hope so Benni! You just sound so isolated, I wish we could all hop on the bus and come take you out for a coffee and a movie or something LOL

Glad you’re here on SR - collectively we’ve seen it all so you’re not alone, lots of support and experience and hope here!
Peace,
B.

Bekindalways

Hope you are hanging tough Benni. let us know how you are doing.

Wheelsup

I think its great you're considering counseling. Just a few comments to add to what others are saying.

I agree ... marriage counselor (a good one) will not see you and your AH for counseling while one of you (him) is in an active addiction. The counseling won't work - the addiction must be treated first.

I didn't know this - or understand anything about addiction. When we tried marriage counseling (for infidelity), my H was drinking 6-8 beers a day. That was 'normal' to me by that point. I never brought this up because I didn't know; I should have. Marriage counseling was a waste of time.

The only type of counselor that truly helped me start to understand the pervasiveness of addiction was an addiction counselor; she has truly made a difference for me. I would highly recommend trying to find one trained in addiction; they are capable of helping the addict and those affected by the addict.

Also, I know that you do not think you are codependent. I, too, consider myself strong and independent; I don't tolerate a lot of BS from people and am known for being a no-nonsense straight shooter. With all that said, it took a long time for me to understand that - yup - I have a lot of terrible co-dependent behaviors. It sucked to realize that sometimes my interpretation of being strong -was actually me engaging in co-dependent behavior and having terrible boundaries. So ... I would encourage you not to dismiss the notion of co-dependency.

Benni

Wow, so many questions! Thank you all for "opening my eyes"! I've read a lot about 'detaching with love', and I feel like a weight was lifted. I've been trying some of the stuff I read and, so far, it's working to relieve some stress, anger, disappointment.

I do have friends, one closer than the others. That's the one I turn to the most.
I am unable to do my artwork due to the stroke.
I think hubs is more co-dependant than me. We have an open living space. He will set at the table working on various models he's building. I sit on the loveseat netflixing, playing games on my tablet or reading. He says I ignore him, always off in my own little world. We are in the same space, we converse back and forth. He's just started this complaint the past 2 weeks. ????

I'm sad that I was tricked by him. I used to feel anger, now just sad/disappointed.
I am happy with him except from 3pm to bedtime, when he's at his worst.

I'm so uplifted by all your posts. Thank you so much!

Benni

I, also, want to add this -- the 1st year of our marriage, he was still teaching. He only drank half what he does now. The 2nd year, when he retired, he still didn't drink as much as he does now. That year was the year I had my stroke.

So, by that time, I'd been with him long enough to see the good in him, and stayed in love with him. My love has never faltered. I just wish that man was still here.

Bekindalways

Yeah. I hear you. If our qualifiers were total and complete assholes, the answer would be simpler.

I still love my qualifier; he was and is an amazing person. I haven't seen him in a decade.

There are posters here that do stay with the alcoholic and just use extreme detachment techniques. Although there is certainly a commonality to the experience, everyone is different.

Benni

I opt for the detachment method. We've had several pleasant days, no fighting, since I began using it.

LLLisa

The drunk husband and the not drunk husband are the same man.