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Old 12-06-2018, 11:38 AM   #1 (permalink)
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does it really matter?


So we all know it's kinda hard to talk to an A because they are usually drunk and nothing resembling reasonable.

A woman in the Al anon meeting today is determined to tell her AH how she feels. I guess that's her right but I wonder does it really matter?

I have told AH how I feel over and over and over. I've practiced for days to make sure it wasn't "accusatory" or whatever. I've written letters. What do you think that got me? NOTHING. Well I can't say nothing. Just more heartache. But he's still definitely drinking.

He knows how I feel. He just doesn't care. Or maybe he does but alcohol just tells him I'm being over dramatic.

If he says something to me I will reiterate how I feel(usually). He gets butt hurt and still nothing changes.

Example: The other day He said "I feel like you don't trust me" My reply was "Well you lie to me so often I feel like I can't trust you and after 7 years of consistent behavior it's kinda ingrained"

Sometimes when I realize he's drunk I feel resigned and just ignore it and do what I need to do, other times I get super angry. IDK I guess I'm just bouncing around trying to work through all the feels.
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Old 12-06-2018, 11:54 AM   #2 (permalink)
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As an alcoholic myself and someone who put my wife and kids through a lot of the same BS, I would say that it did matter to me in the long run. I ignored most of it for years - and not because I didn't care - but because drinking was indeed more important to me at the time. It was all my fault and grossly selfish/ignorant/inconsiderate without question.

But I will tell you that the main motivator for me to finally quit was indeed what I was doing to my family. I don't know if I'll ever fully regain my wife's trust 100% and if I don't I accept that I probably don't deserve to.
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Old 12-06-2018, 11:56 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I think it doesn't really matter.

I'm going to imagine it might break through periodically. That doesn't mean they will do anything about it (as you have experienced).

Addiction is selfish.

I'm thinking that when someone sobers up (if/when they enter recovery) they might remember some of it and go ohhhhh that's what she/he meant.

That could be 20-30 years down the road. Maybe her venting will make her feel better temporarily.
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Old 12-06-2018, 11:57 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ScottFromWI View Post
I ignored most of it for years .
Yes, this is the kind of thing I mean.
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Old 12-06-2018, 12:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by trailmix View Post
I think it doesn't really matter.

I'm going to imagine it might break through periodically. That doesn't mean they will do anything about it (as you have experienced).

Addiction is selfish.

I'm thinking that when someone sobers up (if/when they enter recovery) they might remember some of it and go ohhhhh that's what she/he meant.

That could be 20-30 years down the road. Maybe her venting will make her feel better temporarily.

I totally get venting making her feel better. She just seems obsessed with making him see her perspective and then he'll have some kind of epiphany and get sober. That ain't gonna happen. Maybe I'm just grouchy and frustrated. I feel bad for her. I was there. I kept thinking I could just explain it the right way he will see how he is hurting himself and everyone else and things will change. Still hasn't happened. I know she has to get there on her own.
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Old 12-06-2018, 12:07 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ScottFromWI View Post
As an alcoholic myself and someone who put my wife and kids through a lot of the same BS, I would say that it did matter to me in the long run. I ignored most of it for years - and not because I didn't care - but because drinking was indeed more important to me at the time. It was all my fault and grossly selfish/ignorant/inconsiderate without question.

But I will tell you that the main motivator for me to finally quit was indeed what I was doing to my family. I don't know if I'll ever fully regain my wife's trust 100% and if I don't I accept that I probably don't deserve to.
Thank you for offering a different perspective. It's not that I think he doesn't love us. I just think he needs alcohol more. Some where in there is the person I married but I'm just tired of him not showing up. I don't think I can wait anymore.
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Old 12-06-2018, 12:14 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by alwayscovering View Post
Thank you for offering a different perspective. It's not that I think he doesn't love us. I just think he needs alcohol more. Some where in there is the person I married but I'm just tired of him not showing up. I don't think I can wait anymore.
Those are all completely fair statements. And I agree that you need to do whatever is best for you. I am extremely lucky to still have my family, but I think I may be the exception rather than the rule.
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Old 12-06-2018, 12:44 PM   #8 (permalink)
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As an ex-drinker I'll also say **I** think it matters(to a degree). She can get x,y,z out in the open/off of her chest and he can either take what her 'concerns' are and build from them or keep doing whatever he's doing. All cards are on the table and both can decide how to proceed from there forward. <- that's what really matters though. What really matters is how much 'crap' one's willing to put up with in any relationship.
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Old 12-06-2018, 01:04 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I think the real question isn't "does it matter" but "what is it costing her" to pursue this.
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Old 12-06-2018, 01:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
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She just seems obsessed with making him see her perspective and then he'll have some kind of epiphany and get sober. That ain't gonna happen. Maybe I'm just grouchy and frustrated. I feel bad for her. I was there. I kept thinking I could just explain it the right way he will see how he is hurting himself and everyone else and things will change. Still hasn't happened. I know she has to get there on her own.
This exactly! Like you said you were there in that same spot, obsessed with getting him to see that his own behavior was causing catastrophic damage to those around him and to those that love him. All your talks, all the saying it with just the right words at the right time has not brought about the goal you had hoped to achieve. She now will have to come to that same conclusion on her own in her own time, when she is ready and until then, she will keep on trying and she will keep on getting frustrated, hurt and disappointed.

With you seeing in her that same place where you used to be, it is a pretty good gauge on your own recovery and where you are today. You are not back in that place, you’ve moved ahead and that is a good thing!

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Maybe I'm just grouchy and frustrated. I feel bad for her.
I think that could be the sentiment for many of us here at SR when we see someone brand new post and suggestions are offered and they get defensive or argumentative because it is not what they want to hear nor are they ready to hear some cold harsh truths. None of us wants to see others hit the same rocks and potholes that we did. None of us wants to see others get hurt or taken advantage of but more often than not they have to hit those rocks, they have to trip and fall into the pot holes and they have to feel that hurt and disappointment over and over again for themselves. Until they are ready to accept certain things and begin to face the situation(s) from a different perspective, they will continue to hit those same rocks and fall harder each time into those same potholes many times using different methods. And when they have had enough hurt, pain, disappointment, heartache, frustration, anxiety, they will make a healthier choice for themselves.
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Old 12-06-2018, 01:54 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Addiction, Lies and Relationships

I imagine that most all of us, that has loved and alcoholic, has gone through the maddening experience of just wanting to be HEARD.....and, spend some time throwing ourselves against the brick wall.....
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Old 12-06-2018, 03:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Addiction, Lies and Relationships

I imagine that most all of us, that has loved and alcoholic, has gone through the maddening experience of just wanting to be HEARD.....and, spend some time throwing ourselves against the brick wall.....
That's why I started going to al anon. Got tired of beating my head against a brick wall.
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Old 12-07-2018, 02:49 AM   #13 (permalink)
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In my experience it is far more helpful to work on myself and my Al-anon program of my recovery to move me forward.

Obsessing about my AH was very unhealthy for me.

I am a Double Winner (an alcoholic myself and married to one), I think back when I was drinking I would have denied it all. Shut it all out. Probably by being nasty. I did not want to hear the truth then. I would have protected my bubble of denial that I needed to use to keep drinking.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:25 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I think back when I was drinking I would have denied it all. Shut it all out. Probably by being nasty. I did not want to hear the truth then. I would have protected my bubble of denial that I needed to use to keep drinking.
Ditto.......it certainly wouldn't have affected my drinking, until it was time to stop for me.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:33 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I would say it matters for her. She needs to say this. For myself, I NEEDED to know I had done every single thing, given every single opportunity, to save my marriage. I needed that for my own self, and that is totally ok. While I could not do anything to save my marriage, I know for myself that I tried. Sometimes it's the action, even if you know it won't make a difference. She deserves to say it if she needs that for herself.
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:41 AM   #16 (permalink)
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So we all know it's kinda hard to talk to an A because they are usually drunk and nothing resembling reasonable.

A woman in the Al anon meeting today is determined to tell her AH how she feels. I guess that's her right but I wonder does it really matter?

I have told AH how I feel over and over and over. I've practiced for days to make sure it wasn't "accusatory" or whatever. I've written letters. What do you think that got me? NOTHING. Well I can't say nothing. Just more heartache. But he's still definitely drinking.

He knows how I feel. He just doesn't care. Or maybe he does but alcohol just tells him I'm being over dramatic.

If he says something to me I will reiterate how I feel(usually). He gets butt hurt and still nothing changes.

Example: The other day He said "I feel like you don't trust me" My reply was "Well you lie to me so often I feel like I can't trust you and after 7 years of consistent behavior it's kinda ingrained"

Sometimes when I realize he's drunk I feel resigned and just ignore it and do what I need to do, other times I get super angry. IDK I guess I'm just bouncing around trying to work through all the feels.
I think the better question is: "to whom does it matter??"

It may matter to YOU "Alwaysrecovering." Maybe you need to say it just to get it off your chest. Maybe it's part of YOUR process for moving on to detachment. Maybe you need to say it to fully understand that YOU saying it doesn't change AH's behavior.

I'm not sure that the answer to the question "to whom does it matter" always has to be clear.

I think its enough to trust your gut that YOU need to say it.

I can't guarantee that it will change AH or that, a lightbulb will suddenly go off in your head.

I know that this is going to sound trite but -- I think you have to trust that you saying it has SOME purpose (maybe just to you). And that in so doing, things WILL get better (which may be different than your current conception of "better") in the end . . . and if it is not better, then it's not the end.

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Old 12-07-2018, 12:50 PM   #17 (permalink)
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To be honest, I ask myself this a lot; I believe myself that it doesn't matter to them, in one ear and right out the other one. I spent hours pouring my heart out to my Ex-alcoholic boyfriend, I mean cried, screamed, begged. It never mattered to him. He was once on a five week binge, didn't bathe or eat just drank vodka all day, he wouldn't even come to his door, I had to stand at his wind and screamed at him (looking like a crazy woman) and all he did was say "go away psycho" so yeah, it didn't matter. I also feel that they are like children and talking to them in almost impossible. I wish her luck, but talking to him got me no where. Finally gave up three weeks ago and no contact since. I am hurting but so not stressed anymore.
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:54 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I spent hours pouring my heart out to my Ex-alcoholic boyfriend, I mean cried, screamed, begged. It never mattered to him.
Much the same with me. My XABF was always sweet as can be with me, but no amount of getting things into the open changed our relationship. I think that's what alwayscovering might be getting at - does anything we say actually change the relationship? My BF and I were always quite honest with one another, actually, so there was never a big moment when I bared my soul to him and told him how I really felt. He always knew and I always knew how he felt. There was no big revealing magic moment with the swelling orchestra. We shared our soul deep, heartfelt truths many, many times. It was our way. He remains an active alcoholic from sunup to sundown.
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Old 12-07-2018, 02:44 PM   #19 (permalink)
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In my experience what I say and what my husband hears are usually two different things. I write him letters just to be clear. He doesn't respond or even acknowledge them but at least I know I tried. I like to think he'll keep them and read them one day if he ever decides to get sober
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Old 12-08-2018, 01:19 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I have expressed my feelings times many to my AH...he knows l am on meds now due to his drinking...he knows l have broken down at work...he knows how worried it has made me. But there is no sign of him stopping. In fact before l left on Friday (to come away with friends for the weekend) he went and bought himself a litre bottle on brandy and put it in full view in the cupboard.
So...l realise now...l am helpless, he will do what he wants to do NO MATTER WHAT.
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