clarity888

So AH had his third relapse last night in roughly a month. Another trip to the grocery store for him yesterday (Sat.) morning led to a side trip to the liquor store for vodka, which is easier and doesn't smell. Until I enter the room he slept in around 10 pm and could smell the stuff coming out his pores.

He had a bug yesterday, 101 degree fever, but said some things that I knew meant he'd been drinking.

Anyway, I don't have a good game plan for this happening each weekend (nearly). Last time, I had him leave our house for the night. This time, I asked the same, and told his parents he'd prob come their way tonight. I told them about detachment and boundaries and not wanting to enable him. They seem to understand.

My question is about inpatient. I see a therapist who told me to stage an intervention w/our son (8 y/o), and his sponsor, anyone who would support him going. But I have read that "forcing" someone into going won't be successful, they have to be ready. I did tell AH and his parents today that a separation of perhaps a week or so is in order, since he clearly has started the habit of weekend drinking again. I don't want to enable or risk him being drunk until I'm home from work (or once I am home, for that matterf), I'd rather hire a nanny so all parties can have time away from this before making bigger decisions.

I brought up inpatient with him again today, and he was not as angry about the suggestion this time. I asked if he'd used any tools like calling his sponsor or an IOP classmate when the urge to drink came--he said no. Then he said he'd promise to notify both me and his sponsor. All I could say was "I'll think about it". I don't know if that's going to help or not, having me be notified--does he just need that much emotional support after disclosing that adult sexual assault from 20 years ago?

Mango212

Anytime a person is willing.

There are many types of inpatient treatment centers. Some have strict criteria or specialize in different areas of addiction and/or other areas of mental health recovery.

dandylion

clarity......here is an article from our extensive library of articles, in the stickies, that I think you might find useful.....

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...-reposted.html (10 Ways to Tell When an Addict or Alcoholic is Full of ****, reposted)

dandylion

clarity.....he should be making the decisions about his therapy and his recovery program (s).
Your decisions are about what you can live with--or not....your boundaries are for you and the children. You are free to share as much or as little with him, regarding your boundaries, as you wish....
You can't control him, no matter how much you want him to stop drinking....

About the sexual assault...it will, typically require supportive therapy from the right people....those who are specially trained and understand sexual abuse...for a lengthy period of time.
I suggest that AA would be for sobriety (and, other types of programs...such as rehab/out patient....as he wants to attend)...and specialized therapy/groups for the sexual abuse issues.

trailmix

Is drinking three times in 4 weeks (that you know of) a "relapse", or active addiction.

Truly it doesn't matter what you call it, just that I think it's important to think about what it truly is. He didn't slip up and have a shot of vodka at a friends bachelor party and get straight to AA the next day and start looking at rehab. He just keeps buying and drinking alcohol.

Nothing has really changed.

If he does notify you he wants to drink, what will your response be? I don't even know what you say in that situation, don't drink?? I'm serious. I'm no professional and I'm guessing you aren't either and a sponsor works because they understand because they have been there.

If he notifies you and you try to talk him "down" and it doesn't work or it ends in conflict, does it then become your fault? I'm just throwing that out there.

I'm not sure what having him leave the house after he has already sobered up accomplishes really? Is it meant to be a punishment? Normally having the person leave while drunk, ie: putting them in a cab and sending them to a hotel/friend's house/parents is so that YOU don't have to be around them drunk. Is him having to camp over at the parent's house the next night something bad for him? Good for you? I'm just unclear on that.

clarity888

As always, thank you for the article. Trailmix, you read my mind, yes, he is simply in active addiction, which I told him and his parents (thank you for clarifying that, with the example of slipping up at a party). I agree, we're back to just plain old drinking again like before. Also, him leaving for the night is to give me some space, even though he's no longer drunk. If I could get him out while he is drunk, I would, but I wasn't sure he was until he'd fallen asleep that night and I smelled the stench. I guess him leaving --I think of it as a preview to him having many nights away from his "normal life". I look as it as a consequence, and a way to have some moments to myself to figure out what to do next. The whole thing about him calling me as one of his "tools" in his toolbox, well, I'm as clueless as you are on that. I told him I don't think that would work. I was not able to talk him down, what then...? I'm not a professional. We discussed that he's got to have an action plan for dealing with cravings, and he is not following the one he was given during outpatient, not at all. (to call sponsor, friends from IOP). He said yest., about calling someone when he needs to drink, that "I really feel dumb asking for help". Well, that's pretty much what the whole recovery thing is based on, surrendering to the fact that you MUST allow help in. I've told him nothing has really changed, and that's why something WILL change on my end, because I refuse to continue this way. He may want to not want to drink (sounds funny, haha, it's early and I'm exhausted/not caffeinated enough), but his behavior shows he still does and will drink. Today I guess I am signing up kiddo for after school care and AH will have to pick where he is going live for awhile.

tomsteve

an intervention isnt forcing someone- although an alcoholic in denial will say it is .its sharing concerns for the alcoholic, saying how the drinking has effected those around them, offering a way out, and if they dont want it , setting boundaries and consequences IF the alcoholic doesnt want to help themselves.


more than likely he can use more than emotional support from people that dont understand. he can benefit greatly from professional help which there is absolutely nothing wrong with.

however, to use that for a reason for drinking is just an excuse- especially when there IS help and a solution.

on this
The whole thing about him calling me as one of his "tools" in his toolbox, well, I'm as clueless as you are on that

seems that would fall into the same category of,"i dont know what id do without you!" or,"ill die if you leave."
or some other crap like that i used to toss out there when i was a drunk- just crap used to keep an enabler/codependant from leaving me.

P.S.
a relapse ends with a drink.

dandylion

clarity...….I would like to share something that I learned, several years, ago....
I was talking to an acquaintance...who happened to be a psychologist, who, himself, was several years into his own recovery....he said that he had never seen anyone get into lasting recovery while living in the parent's home....
Since that time, I have kept my eyes open, to see, if that were true...and, so far, I have not seen it happen.....(perhaps a very, very short visit--but not longer than that)….

And, that was true with my adult son, also...I had to end his residence in my own house....although..always welcome for a short sober visit....

I do recognize that it is not your responsibility of where he chooses to live, when not in your own home...but, I would just throw that out there...just so you know....


I could be that his parents don't have a clue either, about what to do...and, may not understand alcoholism/enabling…..
I do know that it is even harder when it is one's own flesh and blood.....

clarity888

I went to Al Anon tonight. The subject was humility. I tried to gather some thoughts when I got home in order to speak with AH. He mentioned he could tell I "had a bad day at work", simply because my empathetic self was not bursting forth after a long day, like it was last night letting him talk. Anyway, I gathered my thoughts, and he'd already gone to bed. I wanted to check one thing with him, and I smell again alcohol in the room where he's sleeping (the guest room). Our son is in the bed too because it's cold tonight. I am livid. He refuses to speak to me, whining about getting two hours of sleep last night when he had to leave.

I don't have it in me to deal with this any more. My son is sleeping in a room of rotten vodka stench. Could it be leftover from Sat. night? Yeah right. I am so angry, I want to have him removed by law enforcement because I don't know if he was sober when he picked up our son, or if his stench is from last night while he was "away". WTF. I am going back in there to make sure that stench is what I think it is. It's honestly really hard to believe he'd just dive right back in the next day.

dandylion

clarity......I do understand the feeling of white hot rage that you feel....when one wants sooo badly for them to not drink...and, they do, anyway....

The nature of the disease is that the compulsion to drink is so strong...and, the alcoholic "voice" in their head, whispers to them that it will be o.k. 24/7......and, the defense of denial is so strong....so strong, that an alcoholic will deny that they are drinking, even when they have a drink in their hands, and raising it to their lips....(I have seen it)…

I know it is hard to remember it, when one is so angry....but, it might help to remember that the alcoholic doesn't drink to deliberately hurt others....(even though it does)they drink because they are alcoholics and the disease compels them to do so....
Birds sing (and poo) because they are birds...alcoholics drink because they are alcoholics.....

What I am trying to say is that it is not personal.....it is just what it is....

***Law enforcement wont arrest anyone for being drunk....unless they catch them doing something unlawful, while being drunk...
Being drunk, in itself, is not against the law***

Sasha1972

Ugh! How awful, and how infuriating, that he keeps right on drinking. I struggle with the concept that alcoholics are compelled to drink, that this isn't a choice they're making in a rational way - and sometimes I can hang onto that view while other times I'm really angry because they're doing something that any rational person would see is stupid and harmful. But they aren't rational people - their brains don't work properly anymore.

So I can empathize with that fury, and with the "Oh my God, is that what I think it is?" feeling.

clarity888

Dandy, yes, this is just what As do, and briefly I thought that the 6 week stint in Intensive Outpatient, and sobriety x 100 days, would work out differently. But for now he is sneaking vodka over the last 3 days, still not sure how much, maybe his body chemistry creates a horrendous smell with small amounts, but I personally think he drank a ton of it thus the smell (or maybe he just has sick physiology to take a mini bottle from a plane and create that pungent of a rot). I can't let him pick up my kid from school now, though! That part is done; been there, done that. So I'm getting care lined up, and one of us should leave for a week or two and get some distance from this mess. Thank you Sasha, yes, their brains really don't work well anymore . Thank you for reminding me of that. I may use that very fact as a reason he needs inpatient-that his brain just isn't working correctly anymore/right now.

dandylion

clarity.....since you mention the smell or "rot".....I suggest that you might google "Fetor Hepaticus"....which is a very foul odor associated with liver conditions....
If that is it...it is very distinct and one cannot get rid of it.....
It is different that the usual smell of someone who is simply intoxicated after a night of drinking...
He would need to see a doctor...…..

clarity888

This morning we agreed that since I work late, he will take DS to his parents, where he "will be accountable", i.e. not drinking. He confirmed he was drinking while I was at Al Anon last night, and that he will find a place to go tomorrow. I will try to get an appointment with my counselor who can guide us through this part with DS, hopefully she can see us tomorrow afternoon. AH is very angry, saying "you're getting what you wanted", also mentioning DS was "fed, given a bath, put to bed" despite the alcohol consumption. It's going to be a long day. I still told AH that this ISN'T what I wanted, and that there are other options like inpatient tx. He is also very angry that I went from a listening tone on Sunday to demanding action on Monday after work. I basically asked him "so have you figured out where to stay for awhile"? And I was of course tired from the work day, frustrated at all of it, and I am sure this contributed to his reaction, i.e. drinking last night. I know it was his choice, I know I didn't cause it. But I do need to be less emotional, more serene going forward, which I will. This may play out over the week instead of "by tomorrow", I realize. I hope it's the best thing to do; it will be hard. Thanks for listening, again.

hopeful4

I was thinking the same thing Dandy.

Yup, it is what it is. Anyone who has a big drinker in their home should immediately make it so that person can NEVER drive their children, at any point. It's hard, but it's for the safety of your children.

Clarity....I am sorry you are going through this.

clarity888

Thank you Hopeful. I needed to hear that, about preventing him from potentially driving with DS in the car. His whole defense is that oh, I only had it once home, or well before I picked son up, or only while cooking and getting son to bed. I know it's not illegal, but him cuddling up to DS reeking like he did makes me sick, and to me shows he was supervising a child while under some sort of influence.

Cyranoak

...it's always now.

dandylion

clarity...were you able to google "Fetor Hepaticus"?......because, if this is what he has, going on...it is not something that he will be able to control....as it is toxins from the liver...…
Even if he were not drinking, he would have it....(though drinking doesn't help)…..
The smell is associated with liver disease....
You might be interested in reading about it....to see if it matches what you are describing....

clarity888

Dandylion--I did google it, but I'm thinking he probably doesn't have it. I have managed to confuse his toothpaste smell with his alcohol smell--thus whenever I smell toothpaste on him, I *think* I will soon smell the stench of stale alcohol...but that's not always the case. It's very clear when he's been drinking (okay, obviously I miss a lot of the times, he manages to steer clear of my nose some days).

Went to counseling with a family therapist who is my own therapist; she specializes in addiction. It's apparent my husband is dealing with either PTSD or an anxiety issue combined with alcohol abuse to deal with it. He reeked of it in her office, and I mentioned it, and he confirmed it. We decided that to prevent further damage to the relationship, he will stay elsewhere through Sunday. It makes me almost physically ill to be around him when he is in that state; and it's been daily since Saturday. He'll go to his parents'; not that any miracles will happen there, but so we both have some distance.

MCESaint

Clarity -

My suggestion would be this - gather anything you can that says he is an alcoholic or that he has been treated for alcoholism or he has been treated for withdrawal from alcohol. Medical bills, FMLA leave applications, whatever.

Take those documents to a LAWYER. One familiar with family law issues including orders of protection for children.

It may not be illegal to be *drunk* -- however, it is a form of abuse and child endangerment for a minor child (especially one who is just 8 y.o.) to be in the sole care of an inebriated person.

Depending upon the laws in your state, you might be able to get a Child Protective Order which would allow you to *legally* kick him out of the house.

I recently did this with respect to my AW. Now, I waited until she actually had an accident with DS in the car and was arrested for DWI. It was a big RISK I took to wait that long (fortunately, the accident was a minor one) -- but then, I'm a MAN and I know that there is still a prejudice against men and in favor of woman in child custody cases (especially involving younger children).

That prejudice should work in YOUR favor. The amount of evidence you need to get the CPO might not need to be as much as I thought I would need.

MCE Saint