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Old 06-02-2019, 10:14 PM   #81 (permalink)
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One thing that bothers me is that I feel sorry for him and part of me wants to help him. I wish I didn't.. so I am fighting that.
Imagine how your Son feels when something like that happens. You 100% did the right thing. Above all you must protect him. If you walk on eggshells imagine how he feels. You have independence and money and a car and can decide things for your life, he doesn't have that luxury. You are all that stands between him and a raging drunk.

Why, why do you think you can help him? The truth is you can't.

This quote is from a Brene Brown article that honeypig posted a link to in this thread: https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...n-article.html (Brene Brown Article,)

"Help is the sunny side of control. Stop helping so much. Don’t get your help and goodness all over everybody"

Wanting to help someone that doesn't want help is doing just this. It is trying to control someone and some situation that you shouldn't be trying to control. He is a grown up adult and he wants to drink, that is his choice, you have a problem with his drinking and rage, he doesn't.

It's up to you of course but unless he calls and asks for a ride to AA or to drop him off at rehab, there really is no way you can help him, he needs professional help.
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:47 PM   #82 (permalink)
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I'm also an alcoholic. I have never raged at someone, or put someone down, until I was being verbally abused for hours. I had no coping skills. Didn't know how to handle things and after being followed around for hours and hours, I would go off also.

I am one that believes that alcoholism and abuse are 2 separate things. You don't need to be an alcoholic to be abusive, and you don't have to be abusive just because you're an alcoholic. Like I said, 2 separate things.

My ex use to only abuse me when he was drinking. I allowed it, and excused it. Then he didn't even need to be drinking, and he would still be abusive.

When I said things escalate, I did mean that. What was started as emotional abuse, turned into verbal abuse, turned into financial abuse, etc..., turned into physical abuse. Been through it all. It's all about control. it's about the control that they need to exert to keep you in line and for you to be to afraid to leave.

I know you told him to leave, and I am so happy that you did, I think you are getting the responses that are you, is because you let him come back, and he did the same thing.

They will chip away at your self esteem and self confidence piece by piece. Like vampires. They say that you have a tank inside yourself and that you should have it filled with love for yourself, and perhaps give 1/4 of that to another person (not talking about your own children here) and that the 1/4 you give away should be replenished by the other person.

How much is this person replenishing your love tank, or is he draining it, where you are no longer able to love yourself?

The reason that I come to this forum and still post here is because I don't want anyone to hurt the way that I did.

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Old 06-03-2019, 05:44 AM   #83 (permalink)
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Everything that amy55 said. Both posts. I lived that situation too. I was also walking on eggshells and lowering the bar for what was acceptable behavior until my "normal" was actually really unacceptable to most sane people.

Just let this guy go.

The worst part is your son knows this is happening -- it doesn't matter if you THINK he doesn't know, he knows. Kids know. Surely he hates it. You are his role model. You need to protect you so that you can protect him.
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Old 06-03-2019, 06:33 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Aww Meadow, I'm so sorry 😢 I know how tempting it is to return to them. I did it at least 6 times over the past 2 years. It's insane.

And like everyone has mentioned, once they start the abuse cycle, it doesn't get better. It gets worse and worse. I don't think there are many exceptions to this unless they reach for true help and recovery.

For me, what started as nasty texts turned into verbal abuse, turned into throwing and breaking my possessions, turned into punching holes in the wall by my head, turned into tripping me and pushing me down, turned into putting his hand on my throat, turned into raising his hand to me in the classic "backhand" way... That last one was a month back and I've been NC ever since. I saw enough to know what will come next

And in my situation, the cycle of abuse got shorter and shorter each time we reconciled. Early on, there would be a couple months between episodes, turned into mere weeks between episodes, turned into days, then hours, you get the picture.

I feel for you so much because I, too, have the nearly uncontrollable desire to reconcile with him each time. My reasons varied between feeling sorry for him and dismissing his bad behavior and treatment of me because I could "understand where he was coming from", or believing I was the only one who could help him and that he truly meant it when he said loved me and needed me to help him, to straight up just missing him so deeply I decided the pain of being apart was worse than what I was enduring.

I had/have so much delusion, so much fog, so much loss of self. I'm still working very hard to clear my head and take off my rose colored glasses and regain my health and sense of self. I'm on day 29 of NC since I ended things with him for the last (I hope!), and in some ways I have progressed... But I know in my heart that I would still take him back if I allowed myself to see him or talk to him. That's why full NC has been so important for me. I know what's in store for me if I go back to him. I can't wait until this irrational obsession with him and reconciling with him because "he will get better for me and our love" goes away. I'm working hard on myself to make that happen. I hope you'll be able to start focusing on yourself soon too ❤

Don't feel bad that you fell for it. Most of us have gone back to them even after we realized it couldn't ever truly work out. Usually more than once. I wish SO MUCH I had stuck to my guns the very first time I ended things with him early on in our relationship. It would've been easier before I allowed my self worth, self respect and self esteem to be eroded so far. I didn't even realize it was happening until the very end when my mental and physical health was so poor that barely anything was left of me. I'm slowly rebuilding that, and getting stronger and smarter each day... But wow, it got so bad and I DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE WHAT WAS HAPPENING until after I got out of it.

That's awesome that you aren't speaking to him right now. I hope you'll stick with it and string enough days together to clear your mind a bit so you can see things as they truly are. I couldn't even think straight or remember when the abuse had crept in for at least the first week or two of NC. It was really weird, I was in such a fog! As it lifted, I was able to think further and further back and I could start to see how it had been creeping in, it just started out more covertly. So insidious!

Then today I went to journal in an old notebook I unearthed.. And I found entries I had written every few months throughout our relationship dating back to October of 2017 lamenting his poor treatment of me, and my suspicions of him cheating, and on and on. What?? All of this has been going on since nearly the beginning, and I had NO recollection of it. Only memories of how wonderful it had once been. When I first ended things I truly thought the abuse and bad behavior had only begun a couple months prior. WTF.

I tell you this not to hijack your thread, but to warn you that you might be stuck in your addiction to him and in the FOG and may not be seeing and recognizing the full picture. Maybe read through some of your old threads when you feel like you're weakening towards him.

I also suggest keeping an abuse journal whether you reconcile with him or not. Like, write out all the bad past incidents you can currently remember... And then start keeping an up to date list WITH DATES of the things he does to you. Your future self might find those entries 2 years later like I did, and it might help you wake up to the cycle like I am. And it might save your life.

I will listen to you... I will empathize and commiserate with you. I will offer what little I've managed to learn so far, anytime you want! I hope you'll keep posting.

Last thing (sorry so long!), the book that helped me come out of the fog the most is called "Psychopath Free" by Jackson Mackenzie I think. You can get it online instantly for pretty cheap. It doesn't matter if your ABF is also a psychopath or narcissist or borderline or whatever in addition to being an alcoholic, this book gives an excellent cut and dry breakdown of the cycle of abuse and is totally in line with what anyone dating someone in active addiction is dealing with. Reading it, my XABF did and said literally everything in this book! I could've written it! I think you'll find the same.

I've also found a lot of comfort in YouTube videos about narcissists because their treatment of us is so close to narcissistic abuse. I'm trying to give up on which came first, the personality disorder or the addictions, because it doesn't actually matter. The fact of the matter is that they are abusing us, and no personality disorder or addiction excuses that! Let me know if you want any recommendations on YouTube channels to check out. These books and videos, and this place (!!), have been the cornerstones of my recovery and WAKING UP. And every time I start to forget that I was BEING ABUSED I hop on here or I watch some videos on narcissism. And it wakes me right back up!

I hope something in this novel helps you or brings you some comfort. Know you're not alone!!! xo
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Old 06-03-2019, 07:08 PM   #85 (permalink)
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One thing that bothers me is that I feel sorry for him and part of me wants to help him.

it's ok to feel that, think that. however, review your own priorities and see who ELSE should get that concern FIRST.
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:49 PM   #86 (permalink)
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He called and left a voice mail wanting to meet for dinner tomorrow so he could explain things. He couldn't explain everything because he says he is not equipped. He said he loves me more and more. I sent a text declining and said that I had become a target for his frustration and it was slowly chipping away at me. I begged him not to reply.. guess what? He did... saying it wasn't fair or true and that I exaggerate but so be it as I wish... like always ( jab that I am selfish). Wow.... no reply from me. You cannot reason with an abuser.
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:50 PM   #87 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=Trinity7777;7197920]Aww Meadow, I'm so sorry 😢 I know how tempting it is to return to them. I did it at least 6 times over the past 2 years.

Thank you so much.... your post means a lot and there is so much great advise.

Last edited by Meadow123; 06-03-2019 at 11:54 PM. Reason: Spelling error
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:51 PM   #88 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=Trinity7777;7197920]Aww Meadow, I'm so sorry 😢 I know how tempting it is to return to them. I did it at least 6 times over the past 2 years.

Thank you so much.... your post means a lot and there is so much great advise.

Last edited by Meadow123; 06-03-2019 at 11:57 PM. Reason: Error
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Old 06-04-2019, 12:08 AM   #89 (permalink)
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No you can't reason with him and you handled that so well.

It's not for him to say whether what you said about your feelings is true or whether that you exaggerate. Those are your feelings, he doesn't get to "judge" your feelings and tell you they aren't right.

I hope you consider ignoring further texts and emails perhaps, no good is coming to you from either.
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Old 06-04-2019, 05:10 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Hi Meadow,

Just wanted to check in to see how you are feeling. You did do the right thing though. I guess when I remember back to when I was "in", I might have been curious as to what he had to say, but he more or less told you he is not equipped to explain. Personally, in my situation that probably would have started a fight. It would be like if you don't know what went wrong, then what do you want, and it would have started a whole "blame game". See, to me this is a whole head game. I think he knows if he just talks nice to you for a little, all is well. Perhaps not, but that is the way I was. I was like, just treat me like a human, (my bar was really low), and I'll be OK. Thing is, eventually, he couldn't even do that. Take a nice relaxing bath, get some ice cream, watch a comedy. Just relax.

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Old 06-04-2019, 06:01 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Thanks Amy... my son and I are ordering pizza tonight to celebrate a great mark on an English assignment. I am going for a walk first. I just want my stomach to settle down. He "L" has a really kind and beautiful side but once in a while the ugliness appears. I know it's not my fault but it still hurts. I wish he could just be the good person he knows how to be. I cannot help him but I wish I could save him. I want him to be happy and mentally healthy.
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Old 06-04-2019, 06:27 PM   #92 (permalink)
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He called and left a voice mail wanting to meet for dinner tomorrow so he could explain things. He couldn't explain everything because he says he is not equipped. He said he loves me more and more. I sent a text declining and said that I had become a target for his frustration and it was slowly chipping away at me. I begged him not to reply.. guess what? He did... saying it wasn't fair or true and that I exaggerate but so be it as I wish... like always ( jab that I am selfish). Wow.... no reply from me. You cannot reason with an abuser.
Pizza sounds really good, I already ate today, but you got me hungry, may have to order that tomorrow.

The reason I quoted you was so that you can look at something here. He left a voicemail, seemingly that he wanted to apologize, you responded and you said "NO" to dinner. He then sent you another text berating you and blaming you. One of the ways to find out if someone really means what they say is by saying "NO", and to see their response.

So happy that you son did well, and that you are celebrating tonight.

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Old 06-05-2019, 10:04 AM   #93 (permalink)
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I am having a moment this morning. I know I am doing the right thing. I keep thinking I am all he has ( to a point yes he has friends but no family really) so am I full of myself with this thought? I feel so bad wondering how he is doing, I can hardly stand the thought of him lonely and sad.
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Old 06-05-2019, 10:16 AM   #94 (permalink)
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Maybe he’s not lonely or sad. He’s probably drunk or planning to be and you only occasionally cross his mind. Or you do cross his mind and he doesn’t care.

Please, please...I did it, too, but you really have no idea what he’s feeling. He’s not an abandoned puppy. He’s a grown man whose actions have driven you away because they were abusive. The end.

There’s another concern here...your son is watching you closer than you think. If you don’t respect yourself, why would he respect you? This is a challenging enough time with him being a teen. I suspect he was really proud of you when you threw the XAB out of the house. I was!

Chin up. Turn up the music and get on with your good self. Better days are ahead, I promise.
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Old 06-05-2019, 10:30 AM   #95 (permalink)
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I can hardly stand the thought of him lonely and sad.

why? lonely and sad are two of the vast spectrum of emotions that humans experience. and they belong to the person experiencing them. and it is no one else's job to CHANGE THEM. of all the things he MAY be experiencing, or not if he's numbed out, why do you assign those two particular feelings to what you think he is feeling?
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Old 06-05-2019, 10:50 AM   #96 (permalink)
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Maybe what he needs right now is to be lonely and sad. These are just feelings and he can survive them.

On the the same note, you will also survive your feelings, even if you do nothing to act upon them.
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Old 06-05-2019, 02:13 PM   #97 (permalink)
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I am having a moment this morning. I know I am doing the right thing. I keep thinking I am all he has ( to a point yes he has friends but no family really) so am I full of myself with this thought? I feel so bad wondering how he is doing, I can hardly stand the thought of him lonely and sad.
I really recommend you go back and read your thread again. It happens - when you have been apart for a while, that the "good" seems to come to the forefront - after all, who wants to dwell on the negative?

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i have to learn that there is no reasoning with him. He has to help himself first.
Most importantly, please try to refocus on yourself. He doesn't need your help and hasn't actually asked for help.

He has no intention of quitting drinking and has insisted you ignore his vile messages - that doesn't sound like a cry for help, sounds like someone who wants someone that will put up with him just as he is.
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Old 06-05-2019, 04:55 PM   #98 (permalink)
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I am feeling some glimpses of strength... all of your words are helping. Xo
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Old 06-05-2019, 08:29 PM   #99 (permalink)
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I wanted to talk to you about analysis paralysis. I had that. I had to keep rethinking everything, going over and over things again and again to see what I could have done differently and if I did things differently would there have been changes. I got stuck in analysis paralysis for over 7 years. It was like I had a one-track mind and nothing there was how I felt about anything, it was all about how I could control another person to change back to the person they were when I met them. Needless to say, this didn't work, no matter how much I tried to change myself to be the person he wanted me to be. You see, anything I changed to be the person that he wanted, well, he decided that was wrong also.

I became a basket case. Never in my life did I work so hard for a relationship, just to be told that everything I did was wrong. I was keeping a list of things that were wrong with me, by the time I gave that up, I think there were about 137 or 147 things wrong with me. Can't remember the number of things, I no longer have the list, my lawyer does. I can just remember looking at the list and there were things on there, like I cook too much, then later on, he would say I don't cook, or I clean too much, then it was that I didn't clean. Looking at that list, I knew that whatever I would do, would not be good enough.

About 3 months before I left, I remember sitting in the den. I don't think that I have ever felt so lower then I did that day. My ex use to abandon me all the time. At first it was for a few days, then weeks, then months at a time. I would be at home and I had this hope in me that things would get better.

Well this day sitting in the den, I had the TV on, there was a patio door directly across the room from me, and I didn't hear a sound and I saw nothing outside the patio door. My world just went black and I could feel myself falling into an abyss. I finally hit rock bottom. I sat at the bottom of this abyss for a really long time, possibly 3 or 4 hours, just staring into nothingness, and just hurting. Then some part of my brain must have started to work, and I looked at the walls that enslaved me, and they were closing me in.

My mind cleared up, the walls that were enslaving me were walls that I was building, the hope that I had, was a hope to change another person. Well dang, I tried that for over 20 years and that wasn't going to happen. So I cried, it was a good cry. I then gave up all the hope that I had for all of those years, and I felt relief. I still felt lonely, but I felt a calmness come over me that I haven't felt for decades. There was a ladder in the abyss, and even though I felt so horrible and so lonely, I climbed that ladder one rung at a time. Sometimes I fell back a few steps, but I never stopped climbing till I got out. See, the hope that I had was the wrong hope. Hope to change someone else, well that's just control. The only control that I have is to change me. I developed a new Hope that day. It was hope for me, and me making the changes to my life, so that my life would be happy.

There was a song that I was listening to then, perhaps not the whole song, maybe just 2 or more lines from it.

Ain't going down, no more to the well
and sometimes it seems, I'm going to hell.......... (Van Morrison)

Well, you do sound a bit better today, but I do know how fast you can fall down the rungs of a ladder. BTDT.

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Old 06-06-2019, 08:14 AM   #100 (permalink)
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Wow Amy.... you have overcome a lot. Thank you for sharing your personal story in such depth. I am feeling stronger... I am able to eat regularly and sleep. I have moments but it is not so much about me..... for whatever reason I feel so sorry for him. In my earlier posts when I went to therapy, I was told my heart is too big. I need to get past that because his poor behavior cannot have impact on my life and health. I want the good part of him but he is a package that comes with a hurtful part as well . The good was so amazing but that cannot make up for the mistreatment. Xo
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