Decisions, decisions, decisions
 

I dunno if this is the right place to post this; if not, I apologize in advance.

My overall question is this: Pulling the trigger versus letting the stuff settle.

I *feel* like I may be rushing into some decisions I might regret later on.

At the same time, my "lawyer brain" can see the logic of making the decision now versus later on.

I won't repost the entire history here, but AW is currently in a in-patient rehab facility. After that she plans on doing 3 months in a "sober living" facility. After that?? Who knows??

AW quit her job this summer. Because her job provided our health insurance, it allowed me to continue with my law practice. But, now we're on COBRA which is expensive. And the "market place" isn't much better.

I recently got a job offer from a government agency. It's less money, but the benefits are really good. In sum, I can get a HSA/High-Deductible plan for me, the spouse, and 2 kids for $180 per month. My prospective ER also makes a small contribution into the HSA (which I can contribute more to). Preventive care is 100% covered by insurer (which some HSA/High-Deductibles do not). I have pre-existing conditions and they'd be covered. It also comes with some life insurance (1x salary), long-term disability, pension (vested after 5 years), etc. Things I don't.

My problem is: I cannot and do not trust AW alone with our youngest (DS 4 y.o.).

I'm willing to allow her to be around DS, but only under guidelines that insure that she is not drinking. That's non-negotiable. If she only has 90 or 120 days of "sobriety" underneath her, that's not enough to rebuild my trust with DS.

Until, AW decides where SHE is going to live after "sober living" - DS will need to be in daycare.

If I accept the new job (which I'd like to do) then, with the lower salary, income vs. expenses is very, very dicey -- I can cover 10 months of daycare from limited savings, enough to get him into public school kindergarten in Fall 2019, but if *anything* goes wrong in the next 10 months (need a new furnace, etc.) I'm screwed.

Housing is my biggest monthly expense.

We have equity in the house (at current FM prices). We're 15 years into a 30 year mortgage, so equity starts building faster (as much going to principal as is applied to interest).

Option #1

It would take some $$$ to get the house "market ready." We built this house and many of the original items were "builder grade" and due/overdue for an upgrade/overhaul. My emotional world right now is sooo upside down that I don't really want to put the time or the money into the house to make the necessary repairs to bring "top dollar." I also don't look forward to keeping the house in "show condition". But, the potential equity to us (combined) would be $40,000 or more. Which I'd split evenly with AW.

My plan would be to move myself and DS in with my brother (who has a 3 bedroom house, no kids, no wife) - and split expenses with him. That should provide enough to cover DS's daycare without raiding savings.

Where would AW live?? Who knows, in some respects I feel it's not really my problem.

Option #2:

Alternatively, I think we could do a quick sale with a "We Buy Ugly Houses" type investor. In this case, the buyer buys as-is type cash on the barrel head, no contingencies sale. It would net a lower offer than hiring an agent, but it saves me some "emotional" energy and exertion (just wiped out these days). But, the total equity would be more like $15,000 to $20,000. Which I'd split evenly with AW.

My plan would be to move myself and DS in with my brother (who has a 3 bedroom house, no kids, no wife) - and split expenses with him. That should provide enough to cover DS's daycare without raiding savings.

Where would AW live?? Again, who knows, not really my problem.

Options #1 and #2 require AW's "cooperation" as she would have to sign off on any sale of the house.

Option #3A:

Stay in current house, raid savings for daycare and cross-fingers. AW lives with us at current house (or elsewhere), but DS attends daycare and I pick-up and drop off never leaving her alone with him. She has supervised visitations with DS for some unknown amount of time until she can demonstrate she's not drinking.

Option #3B

Stay in current house, AW lives with us, but agrees to be monitored for AW use - such as Soberlink. DS does NOT attend daycare. AW stays home with DS.

I don't *have* to choose right now to move in with my brother. That option is always in the background.

But, I don't do "limbo" or "uncertainty" particularly well. I'm much more emotionally built to have a plan or direction (see, lawyer brain).

Are there options I'm missing?? Or are these options even, ya know, options or wishful thinking??

MCE Saint

Hmmm. These are really big decisions during a super stressful time in your life. I hate that for you. Question, do you forsee any future at all with your AW? I would say lots hinges on that.

I personally would not plan to let her be alone with my child for at least six months of being sober and having an attitude of recovery, AFTER she gets out of sober living. That's just my opinion. I also wonder, don't you also have to split the savings with your AW??

Just a few questions. My heart is with you. I hate that you are going through all of this. Congratulations on the job offer, that is always an honor.

In the first third of your post, you write that you cannot and do not trust AW with DS4 - that immediately disqualifies Option #3B in my mind. And I think everything should build off of there.

Getting a gov't job with benefits and the retirement options they have surely must be a good deal, especially since you are paying COBRA. COBRA at my company, even on HSA, is around $1400/month for me, AW, and one kid. That difference alone should cover childcare. Now, can I ask how much of a salary hit you would take? Long-term, having a gov't job almost always pays for itself in terms of benefits and pension. You also have to think long-term.

You don't HAVE to sell right now, do you? I understand that you are trying to save $$, but that would be just another disruption to DS, and if AW is not working, she is going to want living expenses, and if you just leave her in the lurch, she will probably get a lawyer and sue you for living expenses - which then adds additional things to your burden.

IMHO, and I'm not you as a parent or spouse: get DS ASAP from her family in State C and get him back home BEFORE she gets out of rehab. Step 2 - get him in daycare ASAP and get him established there, and get him him into a safe routine. Step 3 - accept the new job unless it's a horrendous hit to your bottom line - remember, you are traveling far-and-wide for clients, will this new gig afford you to be home, and/or closer to home more often? That will save you money and stress.

Bottom line - look at the total overall costs associated with this job. But first and foremost, get DS back, get him in daycare, and make sure he doesn't spend ONE SECOND of time alone with DS. Oh, and get moving with an atty. who can help you with all of this.

We're rooting for you and DS

It is a big money hit (about $20k income side less first year). But, my biggest client (90% of my income) has dropped off significantly this year and appears to be in the process of retiring or closing up shop. So going forward, as I see it, I'm pessimistically counting it as a zero or near zero going beyond mid-year 2019. (Glass half empty vs. Glass half full). Also means I don't have a huge book of business to sell to other firm's either. I can't complain, it's been a good 6 year ride -- but I can see the last station up ahead. It may come later than mid-2019... Better to jump now on my own time schedule, than be pushed on its.

Other than health insurance, I've been hanging naked on life insurance, disability insurance. Comparing TOTAL COMPENSATION (cash and benefits) it's about the same). There is no such thing as paid annual leave or paid sick leave in my own business -- but with the Government gig, I accrue both on a fairly generous schedule so if DS is sick I can take-off to care for him.

I'm also, um, "older" (over 55 y.o.). And finding a salaried job is much, much tougher now. However, the Government doesn't seem to discriminate against older. So, it's hard to pass up the only offer I've had in X resumes sent.

I have an ok pension from a *prior* government job (before I launched my own business) -- and this would supplement that. Looking into the future, my pensions plus Social Security would/should cover my future expenses (so far as they can be determined now). And all of them index for inflation (COLA). Retirement savings are puny -- had counted on having substantial equity in the house (pay off mortgage) that could be tapped into if needed.

MCE Saint

I think you need to plan to take care of the child alone for the future. I know that's overwhelming. I do it, you can do it as well. That being said, it does require a position with lots of flexability, which it seems you would have with the govt job. And we all know, the health insurance issues are going to only get bigger, and more expensive.

AW is currently in a in-patient rehab facility. After that she plans on doing 3 months in a "sober living" facility. After that?? Who knows??

I think the key word in that statement is “she plans”. Who knows what her actual plans will become. Historically you know exactly how “her plans” have worked out in the past. And a pretty good indicator of someone’s future lies in their past. History doesn’t repeat itself – people repeat history.

I agree, no plan moving forward at this point should involve her caring for the child at all.

At this time, how cooperative do you think your AW would be with a legal separation or divorce? Selling the home?

I also think it matters whether you've already decided on divorce or not. For me, that would affect how fast/slow I was willing to move in some directions - no point in pulling off the band aid slowly unless you have to, right?

The childcare issue is short term but as DS ages he'll need you for lots of other stuff in the after school & evening times like sports, friends, events at school (book fair, math night, family game night), etc. Would the gov't job also afford you more emotional time with him that he'll need in the absence of his mom?

While you might take a significant hit in income over the first couple of years, would you realize it's impact so much if you are sharing expenses at your brother's vs. maintaining your home? (will your overall expenses be lower even with the added childcare?)

But, my biggest client (90% of my income) has dropped off significantly this year and appears to be in the process of retiring or closing up shop.

Seems like the job is an easy decision given the questions regarding your practice. Having a kid myself, I’ve really enjoyed the flexibility and paid time off that working for the government offers. Makes parenting easier.

Another option, while in no way ideal, would be to kick the can on the home sale knowing you could set up a home equity line of credit. I keep one open for emergencies and home repairs when I don’t want to dip into savings. I realize the pitfalls of borrowing to meet expenses, but it might buy you some time as you ponder your living situation.

Leaving DS with mom might cause you (and possibly her, and maybe even him) more stress than it’s worth until she puts her feet on firmer ground. So sorry your hit with so much at once.

-bora

Yes taking some equity out of your home might be wise. Even if you remortgage, rather than having a line of credit. Will give you some funds to do the repairs and perhaps some upgrades on your house and a little more wiggle room in the budget. That would enable you to get top dollar for your house if you do decide to sell.

Whatever your new salary is won't remain stagnant, so there is that. Perhaps there are also ways to make a few extra dollars on the side, notary work etc? Might not be a huge influx of money but it all adds up.

I had a notary come to my house to witness a couple of signatures, I think it was around $75-$100 for that (cant' remember exactly), his prices were based on a set fee and then additional $$ for each signature he witnessed.

It's handy to have someone who will travel locally so that the people you have witnessing documents don't have to travel to someone's office.

Anyway, just an idea.

Have you thought about renting your home? That would generate extra income, and could buy you time to address repairs, etc. You have the added benefit of being an attorney, which can be intimidating to renters who are looking to get one over on a landlord.

If you do get custody of the children you could pursue child support.

Can you get her removed from COBRA? That might save you some on the insurance expense.

Is your wife on the deed to the property? Is she on the titles/registration on any vegicles? Do you have any joint bank accounts that she has access to?

I wouldn't make any decisions based on AW being sober. Sure you could monitor her, but what's the back up plan if she falls off the wagon (they don't tell you, they just keep pushing the envelope on Soberlink, read Sasha's thread)?

What FeelingGreat said. What A's plan to do, and what the TRULY do, are usually not in the same ballpark. I've heard some many proclamations and such to make your head spin!! How many times has she actually DONE what she said she would do, and kept it up?? Umm, that would be ZERO.

It also sounds like you have made up your mind that divorce is imminent, correct? if not, then thoughts of selling the house and such might be premature. As we all have said (numerous times), the first priority is DS - getting him home, getting him in daycare, and making sure that AW is not alone with him.

She is not going to be a reliable person to watch over your child.

Frankly, she'll be a mess and really needs to focus on her own recovery.

I think I'd take the government job if things are fading where you are now.
I work for the state, and having security, health care, and a pension when I retire is a good feeling.

If you do go with 3B, you'll need to have a contingency plan in case she tests positive/doesn't test/otherwise screws around with SoberLink.

And while SoberLink is great for allowing safe visits between a child and an alcoholic parent, it also saddles the non-alcoholic parent with the job of monitoring and surveilling the other parent. Plus it can be expensive - unless your ex agrees to pay for it, you're probably looking at a couple of hundred dollars a month in addition to the up-front cost of the device.

If I were in your position? I think I would

a) take the government job - because you're probably going to be the primary if not only parent for your kid, and flexibility (time off as needed) is an absolute godsend (says one who knows). And given your age, life insurance and pension (with the kid as your beneficiary should you pass away) are a really good idea;

b) sell the house as-is, even with the financial hit. For me, the time and emotional effort that would go into fixing the place up for sale added to the uncertainty of selling the house at some future date would cancel out the potential additional $10K, especially if I took the government job and so my long term financial concerns were lessened. But I am extremely risk-averse and your mileage may vary. (And if it looks like the financial hit from the ugly-homes people is going to be bigger than expected - very little equity or negative equity - then you could consider taking out a line of credit and fixing the place up to sell. But if it were me, I think I'd try to sell it as-is first).

It might be possible to put the house on the market as-is? Or close to that? I didn't think my little cabin would sell. I'd bought it needing attention, did some work, and after a couple years, decided a 1-2 hour commute each way wasn't working for DS and I. The real estate agent I worked with did a great job lining out the items that Must Be Done and lining up contractors and bids to choose from. It was still stressful, but not as stressful as it would've been if I was trying to do everything on my own. So shopping around for a great agent might help the house-sale option.

Option 3B would make me super nervous. I worked through supervised visitation issues with AXH and DS, so I'm looking at it with hind-sight goggles on my situation, but I'd find that infinitely more stressful than doing all the repairs and upgrades on the house. Just something to consider.

Lots of good ideas - some workable, some not.

Here's an update - DS will be returning next week.

I consulted with a lawyer and am moving forward with a Child Protective Order (CPO) - which hopefully the court will enter ex parte (without a hearing) to be turned into a 1 year CPO (after a hearing).

In the CPO, I listed went back and listed *every* episode of AW's "neglect" of DS since he was born and recounted her DWI arrests even before that.

It starts with the recent accident and recent arrest for DWI while DS was a passenger in her car.

As the "responsible parent" - I have AW's medical records from her prior rehab attempts and written statements she made during treatment about how her drinking has effected her family. So, I drew some from those documents. In those documents, she admitted that her drinking caused her to forget that she had food in the oven, which eventually caused the fire alarm to go off (scaring DS to death). Also, she stated that because she drank every night, she'd have to have a drink every day to stop the shakes.

Every past attempt at rehab and every pledge to remain sober broken. Past promises to agree to have an interlock device on her car voluntarily which ended up with her taking MY car (without the device) and me wondering why *I* was the one blowing into it every day.

I want the order, yes.

But, I wanted to write it in such a way that if - in the future - my DS (or my elder daughter) ever read it, he'd hopefully see the looonnnggg history of how AW's alcoholism has affected our family, her own words of how it affected her family, the steps, "bargaining" and broken promises that have finally led me to seek the order of protection.

It helped me to recall things that I had forgotten (hard to believe that you'd forget some of these things, but there's been so many). Put it this way, I got to a paragraph starting with the letter "o" - that's 15 separate things for you folks playing at home. And that is just to do with DS or our children. It doesn't include the arguments between AW and me. The financial burden of the rehabs, increased cost of insurance, etc.

Additionally, I spoke with AW on the phone yesterday. She is - as she should be - focusing on her getting well.

Assuming for the sake of argument that she really, really works it this time, my thought is this: she's like a burn victim who has to do soooo much work to get better that she's really NOT in a position to think about the best welfare of DS. That, like many other things, falls on my shoulders due to the extent and severity of her wounds (i.e., alcoholism).

I'm NOT truly to the point of seeking a divorce or legal separation.

But, seeking and obtaining the CPO may likely start WWIII between AW and me or, at least, between some or all of her family (my in-laws) and me.

My own family (consisting of my siblings) is 100% behind whatever I decide to do.

I just wanted to have some documentation, clearly written and with enough detail that I could point to it and say: "you want to know why I did what I did?? Here, read this and then get back to me."

Crossing fingers and saying a few prayers.

MCE Saint

I think that's a really great starting place MCE. Let the chips fall where they may as far as hurt feelings & angry reactions - you're obviously putting the kids' wellbeing first. Anyone who wants to argue with that is showing what matters more to them.

More will be revealed, I'm sure. Hang in there. :grouphug:

Wow, MCE - BRAVO!!! I've been documenting discussions, black-out episodes, etc., for the past 6 years. I also have NUMEROUS pictures of her passed out on the toilet, a $4000 repair bill for the car, pics of broken cabinet doors, etc. I wish she had put something in writing as well, that would have been the icing on the cake. But I think I have enough - and I think you do as well. It is amazing how we tend to forget some of the MANY things that happen. I think it's because there ARE so many things, and if we keep reliving them it brings us down even more. Sometimes I will look back on my journal and say, "Holy crap, I forgot about that!"

You have made a ton of progress, and I hope and pray that it all works out in your favor, and f not 100%, you should be able to get enough protection in place for DS to make things calmer for you, and safer for him. Good for you.

Good for you!!! Very proud of you, your son is lucky to have you protecting him!

I really hope this all works out well for you MCE.

Just wanted to say, your statement above. Yes, your AW and her family probably won't be too happy with this turn of events and really it's understandable. Your family supports you 100%. While her family are probably aware of her "mis-deeds" (for lack of a better term) they love her and she is their child/Sister and they care about her and your child.

There will be fear, if they are close to your child, that they will be cut off from seeing him. They will see the fear and perhaps anger from their loved one (your AW).

It's a lot for you to deal with and I have no doubt you are entirely capable of doing that, just perhaps keep in mind there are a lot of people that care about your child, I'm sure and maybe contact with some of those other family members is not a bad thing for him.

(I don't know the dynamic there, of course, just thought it was worth mentioning).

Do you plan on having some visitation in place for your Wife to see your child?

MCE.....I am trying to figure out how you got her medical records….I have always thought that a spouse couldn't get another's medical records/information, without some sort of expressed permission....unless it was through some sort of court action....

Dandy - my husband & I generally sign authorization forms with each Doctor's office as soon as we get established as new patients, allowing the other spouse to have access/permission to speak with them about each of our medical histories. That way I can call for refills on his Rx, get his test results, schedule appts & vice versa as needed, etc. Once it's on file it stays on file until it's revoked.

I'm guessing MCE has something similar on file or legal documents like a Medical POA.

I second Fire's answer.

Um, who do you think faxed/emailed her leave/disability forms to her employer??

When she was discharged from the hospital, she also just left them on the kitchen table (along with her "worksheets" etc.)

If they hand them to you - or leave them about the house - fair game.

MCE Saint

So, I got the ex parte order today (yeah!!). Court date in 2 weeks to make it permanent.

And, ironically AW called and wanted to discuss "parameters" for her being with DS (per her, it's part of her "discharge plan" or some such - I may have mangled the terminology, but that was the gist of it).

Anyhow, I said let me send you and email because I was busy.

My email went like this.

You asked for parameters, here are mine (there may be more, but this is off the top of my head):

1. Whatever we agree to, it has to be enforceable - as in a court order. In the past your voluntary agreement to do x or y has lasted only a short time and when you broke your word, there were no consequences other than me leaving the house and then we'd fight over whether DS was leaving with me. No more. If you break the terms of the agreement, the courts and cops are involved. Let them sort it out.

2. Visitations between You and DS will be monitored - either by a live person or a device that you wear continuously and reports to me (preferably in real time). Here are the people I trust to monitor your visits: X, Y, Z, etc.

3. No driving or operating a motor vehicle with DS as a passenger.

4. You must stay on your medical treatment (take the pills for bi-polar, anxiety, ect.) and your sobriety plan (AA meetings).

5. Since it's not clear to me what your schedule will be in terms of sober living, AA meetings, IOP therapy, and finding work (a condition of being in the sober living facility), I'm willing to be somewhat "flexible" on days times you can see DS (monitored, of course); but I'm thinking a schedule like those used by divorced couples - alternate Saturday afternoons and every Wednesday evening, but I'm willing to be flexible. However, under no circumstance do you drop off, pick up, or surprise visit DS at daycare.

6. As your time sober increases and you earn some trust from me, the "parameters" will be lessened.

Since you've told me you don't plan on drinking and that you can't drive a car because you don't have a valid license, then agreeing to all of this in a court order shouldn't be a big issue for you.

Did NOT tell her that the CPO was coming her way - which might've been a mistake.

But, I can always say - THAT is how we get to an enforceable court order.

MCE Saint

Your "parameters" look excellent! In my court order I called them "steps" - step 1 is restricted access (supervised plus SoberLink monitored, short duration); after 8 weeks of not screwing up step 1, we go to step 2 (unsupervised but still SoberLinked, short duration); after 8 weeks of not screwing up step 2, we go to step 3 (unsupervised but still SoberLinked, longer duration [alternating Saturdays, daytime only]) ... etc. If he screws up a step, the clock resets to the beginning of that step again. All spelled out.

With your parameters, I think #4 might be unenforceable (how do you know if she's taking her meds/going to meetings, and what if she finds a doctor/therapist who switches/takes her off meds/says she doesn't have to keep up meetings?). I'd suggest not having that in the court order. In addition to being unenforceable, her recovery in general is not your domain - your concern (and the court's concern) is limited to ensuring that she's sober during her parenting time. If she's drinking constantly the rest of the time, that's her circus and her monkeys. I suggest this because you probably don't want to waste hours of expensive lawyer time arguing about details of her "sobriety plan" or "recovery".

SoberLink is your friend - I've found it very reliable and objective, and their client support is very responsive with information if the monitored party tries to avoid testing.

Thanks Sasha, I tried to incorporate the experiences of those posting here.

Just for the record, she called them "parameters" that she needed to discuss or have laid out for her therapist. Steps works for me -- and I was trying to give "broad strokes" not get into the nitty-gritty detail just yet.

With respect to No. 4, the "form" child protective petition provided by the court has an area where the Petitioning party (in this case me) can request certain things from the Respondent (in this case AW). Among the things that a Petitioning party can request is "Order Respondent to participate in a court-approved counseling program designed to help batterers stop violent behavior or a substance abuse program.

As I see it, she already intends (or so she says) that she'll be in intensive out-patient therapy *and* she'll be attending AA meetings. Those, to me, count as a substance abuse program (albeit not necessarily "court-approved."). I'm certainly going to ask that language that she continue with her "substance abuse" treatment as she herself has outlined to me be incorporated into a final, permanent order.

Also, AW has a "dual-diagnosis" of bi-polar, depression, and anxiety disorder. In my opinion, these issues by themselves, even without drinking, can lead her to place DS in a dangerous situation. I look at it this way, think of "A Beautiful Mind" - where John Nash is having delusions which lead him to neglect his child. When he was medicated, the delusions went away. Would/could his wife leave their child in Nash's care without some assurance he was on his prescribed meds to stop the hallucinations??

Now, AW doesn't suffer from delusions -- but when she is in her "manic" stages of bi-polar, she takes on 24 different tasks at one time -- let's see, while taking care of DS alone while I'm at work she'll try painting the indoors of the house, power washing the outside of the house, re-arranging the pantry, cooking holiday baked goods, do 14 loads of laundry, stay up all night, etc.

Now, I grant you, I've exaggerated somewhat (but only slightly, nobody bakes "Memorial Day Cookies" do they??)-- and others may look at the above and say she's just "multi-tasking." But, most multi-taskers can EFFECTIVELY multi-task. AW takes on so many tasks that they don't all get done or done correctly.

As I see it, AW's bi-polar and anxiety contribute to her drinking. Put differently, she looks around the house and becomes "anxious" about all the things she "thinks" or "feels" need to be done. IMO, our house is typical, suburban nice. We have a 4 year old. If you walk in on us, you'll find toys strewn over the living room, etc. So, to me, it's just "normal." But to her "its a wreck." And it's not just that, for her, she doesn't think whatever things need to be "done" over will be done over a reasonable time period (tackle power washing the outside this weekend, paint the entire inside of the house room-by-room over several weekends, etc.) but it needs to be done right then and there regardless of whatever else is happening.

This drives her bi-polar manic stages and, on top of that, stirs up guilt that she's at home, not working, quit her job, left us paying $$$ for COBRA health insurance coverage and, ya know, her brain is screaming "these things need to be done, right now" Heck, if MY brain was doing that to me 24/7/365, I'd probably become an alcoholic too.

Alone and by themselves, without the drinking, her bi-polarism, depression and anxiety often cause her to "lose focus" from caring for DS. With the booze?? Well, it's like dumping kerosene on a bonfire --manic times 1,000.

I know that for someone like Central Ohio Dad, his AW passes out. For my AW, booze is (initially) "go, go, go, juice!!" She's what I call an "accelerating drunk" the more she drinks, the more she *has* to do. Me? If I have two beers, I'm snoring. To be sure, she will on occasion passout -- especially after a bout of mania. But the primary affect of alcohol on her is a stimulant.

Now, I'll acknowledge, that her bi-polarism, depression, and anxiety are NOT the only "causes," of her drinking. There are genetic factors, there are behavioral patterns that have been laid down since she was a child and, let's face it, drinking that much booze for that much time has altered her brain physically and chemically.

But the bi-polarism, depression and anxiety ARE factors that increase the likelihood of her drinking by some unknown amount -- and they are factors around which medical science can provide a helping hand. It can't stop her from drinking, but it can "turn down the volume" in her head.

I don't care whether she's on this particular drug or that particular drug. But, if her primary doctor, Dr. Jane Smith (fictional), has a diagnosis of "bi-polar" and prescribes her to take Risperdal for it, then, by god, I want the order to say - in some form - that she does whatever her medical doctors recommend for that diagnosis. If she changes doctors or treatments (even if its Dr. Quackenbush and a quack therapy -- and FWIW, I think Quackenbush was the name of Groucho Marx's character in a "Night at the Races") fine -- just do it.

I really don't see it as being any different than saying "she must attend a court-approved substance abuse program." (Indeed, some of these "court-approved" programs are more hurtful than helpful to addicts, IMHO).

Even if it's not technically legally enforceable: (a) she may not know that; but (b) the mere fact that *I* asked for it in writing (or its in the order) *may* result in a greater probability of compliance.

MCE Saint

MCESaint…...I can certainly relate to the complexity of the situation---especially, the dual diagnosis....I don't know if you remember, but I posted the story of my brother-in-law (who is a lawyer), and his wife, who is bi-polar, and his journey through the child custody and management of his wife's (now ex) illness. You might want to go back and read it..it was a long period of hell--like what you are going through...then a good ending, for all...

I have worked with many manic patients...within a hospital unit....and, have known several people who had spouses who were manic. One couple was a psychiatrist whose husband was bi-polar. Here is what many would not expect--that they were all, except for my brother-in-law and the psychiatrist, remained married...and, the two that I mention...maintained a supportive relationship with the ex...that was friendly and civil....
I will say, though, that none that I knew, on a personal level, had the added level of alcoholism. That certainly does add a level of complication that requires close management.


You may know this, but, most hospitals...especially the larger ones...have support groups for friends and families of bi-polar persons....as well as support groups for the bi-polar patients.
If you don't have a support group for yourself...I really suggest that you locate one. I consider support for yourself to be essential....your path is just too difficult to walk, alone....

Like everyone else, you have more strength than you know that you have...we never know how much, until bravery is the only option...

You might find the following web site useful (NAMI)

https://www.nami.org/