Life without a recovery program
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Join Date: Aug 2016
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Life without a recovery program
Husband has been sober for 18 month as of so but has never been in a program. Since he is not in a program there is no self awareness. He's surprised when I voice issues. He is not short fuses and I trust him a little more to discuss issues. He still gives very little and I do most of the housework. I have increased my hours. I'm doing more at work. I'm paying off debt. I volunteer two nights a week. It satisfies my creative side and keeps my mind off issues. I enjoy my time with the children and focus on them. There is no longer crisis just existence. His family is better but I don't want to go to the upcoming holiday celebrations. I know they will never be there for me or interested in me.
Life is good
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,036
Sounds like life is greatly improved?
One day at a time. Miracles happen in many different ways. It's okay to celebrate the good going on in our lives. If something comes up to deal with, trust it'll get worked out.
The healthier I get, the more I'm trusting in the healing power of enjoying life. The balance in this is an ease and natural change in expecting better relationships and allowing them to develop. Whatever that takes.
As my relationship with myself improves, I'm allowing myself to stay silent some days and use my voice in new ways on other days. No rhyme or reason. Trusting the healing process.
A gentle suggestion: perhaps try meditating about the housework thing and take new actions as you're inspired to. Just for today, changes help shake things up and shake things out.
Maybe it's stepping back, asking for help, in that one day, that one moment.
Maybe it's leaving things undone.
Maybe it's a major or mini tantrum that bubbles up.
Things like this can build good, new momentum for new holiday plans, however that comes about.
One day at a time. Miracles happen in many different ways. It's okay to celebrate the good going on in our lives. If something comes up to deal with, trust it'll get worked out.
The healthier I get, the more I'm trusting in the healing power of enjoying life. The balance in this is an ease and natural change in expecting better relationships and allowing them to develop. Whatever that takes.
As my relationship with myself improves, I'm allowing myself to stay silent some days and use my voice in new ways on other days. No rhyme or reason. Trusting the healing process.
A gentle suggestion: perhaps try meditating about the housework thing and take new actions as you're inspired to. Just for today, changes help shake things up and shake things out.
Maybe it's stepping back, asking for help, in that one day, that one moment.
Maybe it's leaving things undone.
Maybe it's a major or mini tantrum that bubbles up.
Things like this can build good, new momentum for new holiday plans, however that comes about.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,144
Thank you Mango. The children said "you shouldn't have to do dishes on your birthday and they did the dishes". They are growing up and can help out more. Dad sat there doing his things. It's that example that gets to me. I well try to relax and see if I'm guided with ideas about the housework.
Life is good
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,036
Meditating. Following gut instinct. Cool stuff happens. For a while I was led to doing all the housework in different ways. Different times of day, different cleaning products or sometimes some deep cleaning or disposing of abandoned/unused items. Freeing up space mentally, physically and emotionally.
When I wanted help, I was led to stop asking or expecting help, to finding a greater satisfaction in the task, often in ways that brought peace into my soul.
Some things left undone; other things picked up; much of other people's things left untouched and letting myself work out my issues with that one!!!
Ebb and flow. As that became routine, things continue to change as I continue to meditate. Suddenly I'll find new ways of letting go. Picking up. Including others in necessary chores. The words to communicate with family and friends are finding more strength, clarity, ease and natural flow. Maybe a lot of that is letting go of my resentments, anger and pain. All this crap either builds up or gets cleaned up, the same as cleaning or not cleaning our homes. Stuff I don't notice or realize it's effect until it's changed.
I can only do my part, yet there is magic in that. As I change my focus, thoughts and intent behind my actions, everything else starts to change, too. Sometimes it's like a big jumbling up and I'm starting to be okay with that, too. It shakes out stuff inside me in good ways.
When I wanted help, I was led to stop asking or expecting help, to finding a greater satisfaction in the task, often in ways that brought peace into my soul.
Some things left undone; other things picked up; much of other people's things left untouched and letting myself work out my issues with that one!!!
Ebb and flow. As that became routine, things continue to change as I continue to meditate. Suddenly I'll find new ways of letting go. Picking up. Including others in necessary chores. The words to communicate with family and friends are finding more strength, clarity, ease and natural flow. Maybe a lot of that is letting go of my resentments, anger and pain. All this crap either builds up or gets cleaned up, the same as cleaning or not cleaning our homes. Stuff I don't notice or realize it's effect until it's changed.
I can only do my part, yet there is magic in that. As I change my focus, thoughts and intent behind my actions, everything else starts to change, too. Sometimes it's like a big jumbling up and I'm starting to be okay with that, too. It shakes out stuff inside me in good ways.
Life is good
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,036
hearthealth -
btw, it's totally okay to say, "this sucks!" to anything and everything. To acknowledge it's difficult, that you have a ton of things going on. That other capable family members or friends don't have a clue, don't care and are happy or unhappy right where they are.
In the acknowledgment there can also be a willingness to allow change, no matter what it takes.
Maybe that means meditation classes. I learn deeper meditation through mostly sitting through hot yoga classes. I find huge emotional and physical releases in this.
One day at a time.
btw, it's totally okay to say, "this sucks!" to anything and everything. To acknowledge it's difficult, that you have a ton of things going on. That other capable family members or friends don't have a clue, don't care and are happy or unhappy right where they are.
In the acknowledgment there can also be a willingness to allow change, no matter what it takes.
Maybe that means meditation classes. I learn deeper meditation through mostly sitting through hot yoga classes. I find huge emotional and physical releases in this.
One day at a time.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
hearthealth….hearthealth, I really hear you, on the housework thing. We could start a whole separate website, on that!! There has been a whole womans' movement to try to change that thing!...lol....and, we are still working on it....
I, myself, have torn flesh from bone, dealing with that inequity, over the years.
Many men have grown up in a culture that gives the message that house work is the woman's work. Period. And...have no experience or motivation to carry their part of that load.....it is like their mind doesn't even go there.
I think that today's younger men may be less rigid, in that way.
It is hard, when one is already married and there is no way to make a pre-nuptial agreement about house work and responsibilities....
Ironically, when I became a single parent, with 3 small kids, it became easier, in a way...I think, principally, because I wasn't simmering in resentment---there was no one to resent.
As the kids got older, they were able to take on a lot of it...which helped enormously. As a positive result, they were really good about being able to run a house, responsibly, as young adults....2 boys, one girl.
I used a lot of Mango's ideas, too. I learned to let the unimportant stuff go. when necessary...As long as the kids and I got well fed, and had clean clothes, and could find our stuff, and had some good times,together...that was what mattered.
Years later, with my good husband...lol...he grew up in a household where his father was a minister, and had never turned his hand to pick up a cup! My husband had never done housework, in his life....never had a role model for that. His mother did everything.
We had lots of heart to heart discussions about that. And, I pulled out a lot of my own hair. But, we finally got it worked out..(my kids were grown, and out of the house). He agreed to a l ot of "honey do" lists....and, finally, he was willing to pay for some hired help, rather than do so much, himself. He was so fabulous in other ways, that was fine, with me....
hearthealth...I remember the story of your in-laws....so, I say, to simply not go...or, go for only a short time, and then leave...I don't see why you have to go and put on a fake face, if you and your husband are truly detaching....
If your husband doesn't like it...he can stay mad, until he gets glad. I recommend to NOT argue over it. Don't let arguing over it, spoil your holidays.
If he should want to argue---don't JADE--just detach...detach...detach...Make your own holiday fun with yourself and the kids.....
easy peasy, lemon squeezy.
I, myself, have torn flesh from bone, dealing with that inequity, over the years.
Many men have grown up in a culture that gives the message that house work is the woman's work. Period. And...have no experience or motivation to carry their part of that load.....it is like their mind doesn't even go there.
I think that today's younger men may be less rigid, in that way.
It is hard, when one is already married and there is no way to make a pre-nuptial agreement about house work and responsibilities....
Ironically, when I became a single parent, with 3 small kids, it became easier, in a way...I think, principally, because I wasn't simmering in resentment---there was no one to resent.
As the kids got older, they were able to take on a lot of it...which helped enormously. As a positive result, they were really good about being able to run a house, responsibly, as young adults....2 boys, one girl.
I used a lot of Mango's ideas, too. I learned to let the unimportant stuff go. when necessary...As long as the kids and I got well fed, and had clean clothes, and could find our stuff, and had some good times,together...that was what mattered.
Years later, with my good husband...lol...he grew up in a household where his father was a minister, and had never turned his hand to pick up a cup! My husband had never done housework, in his life....never had a role model for that. His mother did everything.
We had lots of heart to heart discussions about that. And, I pulled out a lot of my own hair. But, we finally got it worked out..(my kids were grown, and out of the house). He agreed to a l ot of "honey do" lists....and, finally, he was willing to pay for some hired help, rather than do so much, himself. He was so fabulous in other ways, that was fine, with me....
hearthealth...I remember the story of your in-laws....so, I say, to simply not go...or, go for only a short time, and then leave...I don't see why you have to go and put on a fake face, if you and your husband are truly detaching....
If your husband doesn't like it...he can stay mad, until he gets glad. I recommend to NOT argue over it. Don't let arguing over it, spoil your holidays.
If he should want to argue---don't JADE--just detach...detach...detach...Make your own holiday fun with yourself and the kids.....
easy peasy, lemon squeezy.
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Join Date: Aug 2016
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Alcohol made him more talkative either exuberant or angry. Now, without alcohol, it seems to be his personality. This wasn't the personality I married so it's hard to accept. It seems so harsh to think about divorcing him over this. I didn't like him drunk but I don't like him distant.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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hearthealth….I don't think that it has to be about what he is or isn't (though it does affect you)....it is more about what you want and need....
You have a right to be happy....we all do. You have a right to decide how you want to live the rest of your life.
It may come down to how important your happiness is to you....
I can still remember the second that it dawned on me, with my children's father (first marriage)….that I would never....ever...get to be myself...andreally happy….in that marriage....I just couldn't bear the thought of going through life, and never feel really free to be happy,,,and, to be treated or loved the way I needed.....
After, that minute---and, I can tell you where I was standing, and what I was wearing....I couldn't ever turn back....I could never unknow….
lol...It was like salmon swimming upstream...I knew what I had to do...no matter what--my soul depended on it....
By the way...you don't have to get divorced, if you don't want to....I know of people who just live separately, and never got divorced.....
You have a right to be happy....we all do. You have a right to decide how you want to live the rest of your life.
It may come down to how important your happiness is to you....
I can still remember the second that it dawned on me, with my children's father (first marriage)….that I would never....ever...get to be myself...andreally happy….in that marriage....I just couldn't bear the thought of going through life, and never feel really free to be happy,,,and, to be treated or loved the way I needed.....
After, that minute---and, I can tell you where I was standing, and what I was wearing....I couldn't ever turn back....I could never unknow….
lol...It was like salmon swimming upstream...I knew what I had to do...no matter what--my soul depended on it....
By the way...you don't have to get divorced, if you don't want to....I know of people who just live separately, and never got divorced.....
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
hearthealth, like dandylion, when I ended my first marriage I just knew as well. One day. I can't tell you what I was wearing though!
The person I was married to wasn't an alcoholic but had huge anger issues. We argued probably 5 times a week? We would argue for X amount of time and then he would walk away or I would, he would usually come back calm and say, you were right. Oh well.
Anyway, you sound sad and I can imagine you think, ok, here I am, I'm sad, so if I leave him I get to wander off on my own and be sad, isn't that great!!
What I found (I married young) after him leaving is that I wasn't even an arguer lol - I can count on one hand the number of arguments I've had since and the number of times I've raised my voice is not even worth mentioning.
Point being, you might find, if you leave, that you aren't actually a sad person, that you can be joyful and free and happy.
Anyway, just a thought I had when reading your post.
The person I was married to wasn't an alcoholic but had huge anger issues. We argued probably 5 times a week? We would argue for X amount of time and then he would walk away or I would, he would usually come back calm and say, you were right. Oh well.
Anyway, you sound sad and I can imagine you think, ok, here I am, I'm sad, so if I leave him I get to wander off on my own and be sad, isn't that great!!
What I found (I married young) after him leaving is that I wasn't even an arguer lol - I can count on one hand the number of arguments I've had since and the number of times I've raised my voice is not even worth mentioning.
Point being, you might find, if you leave, that you aren't actually a sad person, that you can be joyful and free and happy.
Anyway, just a thought I had when reading your post.
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I am sad but more so I'm alone. I'm right next to him and he's sober. I had a nice time volunteering but I'm solo there too. Maybe it's just my personality. I dont know how to connect. I was helpful volunteering and received a very big thank you. It's something I couldn't even share with him. He was either sleeping or drifting in and out of tv shows. I finally got some courage to tell him "I don't want to go to his family for the holidays" and he was sleeping. I try to connect and get nowhere. Maybe that's why I don't divorce I don't connect anyway.
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hearthealth….was there ever a time, in your life, when you didn't feel alone.....when you did feel a human connection with anyone...?
also, remember, that, while it I great that you are getting out and expanding your social circle....a very necessary thing....it takes time to really get to know other people at a deeper level...at the friendship level. While they might like and appreciate you....it doesn't lead to deep personal intimacy, over night....and, even at that, it might never get to that level, with some groups of people....they may stay at the "socially friendly" level. And, that is o.k.
Friendships develop over time, as, layer, by layer, two people get to know each other by spending time …..and, sharing some of their vulnerabilities...their soft underbellies, with each other. That is how a person comes to feel connected, and "seen" and feel "heard". Over a life time, a person may only have a few of such intimate relationships.
You are not alone in that feeling alone, with a mate right beside you....it is the worst form of lonliness….
dogs make far superior companions than that...lol...
also, remember, that, while it I great that you are getting out and expanding your social circle....a very necessary thing....it takes time to really get to know other people at a deeper level...at the friendship level. While they might like and appreciate you....it doesn't lead to deep personal intimacy, over night....and, even at that, it might never get to that level, with some groups of people....they may stay at the "socially friendly" level. And, that is o.k.
Friendships develop over time, as, layer, by layer, two people get to know each other by spending time …..and, sharing some of their vulnerabilities...their soft underbellies, with each other. That is how a person comes to feel connected, and "seen" and feel "heard". Over a life time, a person may only have a few of such intimate relationships.
You are not alone in that feeling alone, with a mate right beside you....it is the worst form of lonliness….
dogs make far superior companions than that...lol...
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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Originally Posted by hearthealth 
I am sad but more so I'm alone. I'm right next to him and he's sober. I had a nice time volunteering but I'm solo there too. Maybe it's just my personality. I dont know how to connect. I was helpful volunteering and received a very big thank you. It's something I couldn't even share with him. He was either sleeping or drifting in and out of tv shows. I finally got some courage to tell him "I don't want to go to his family for the holidays" and he was sleeping. I try to connect and get nowhere. Maybe that's why I don't divorce I don't connect anyway.
Is it possible that you don't open up much to people? With probably trying to "hide" your Husband's drinking and protect him and trying to cope and trying to keep things on some kind of even keel, that can happen, shutting off your own feelings and thoughts and not sharing. I suspect that may be why you don't connect with people easily.
As dandylion mentioned, people form bonds, over time, by sharing their lives and thoughts and hopes and some troubles too.
Both as a drinker and now as a non-drinker, your Husband is obviously not someone you can connect with. Someone you should be close to in theory, you are not. He is "surprised" when you bring up issues.
You may not even be a person that would normally be shut off from others! Maybe that is your way of coping? Keeping it all bottled up?
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Hi, hearthealth.
It’s not uncommon, imo, for couples to be married, but not connected to each other.
I don’t have advice, but my oft stated feeling on this site is that everyone deserves respect, civility, and humane connections in a relationship.
Drinking can mask a lot of things, and just cuz someone stops drinking doesn’t automatically make them good relationship material.
Maybe this is how your spouse is, always was underneath, or has become.
If you can forge a content life that gives you joy by forming friendships outside the marriage or validation through volunteering while staying in the marriage, then do so.
If that isn’t enough, well, it’s time to do something different.
It’s not uncommon, imo, for couples to be married, but not connected to each other.
I don’t have advice, but my oft stated feeling on this site is that everyone deserves respect, civility, and humane connections in a relationship.
Drinking can mask a lot of things, and just cuz someone stops drinking doesn’t automatically make them good relationship material.
Maybe this is how your spouse is, always was underneath, or has become.
If you can forge a content life that gives you joy by forming friendships outside the marriage or validation through volunteering while staying in the marriage, then do so.
If that isn’t enough, well, it’s time to do something different.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
This definitely happened in my marriage. I realized that I did not want my XAH to drink obviously, but even sober, he was not the person for me.
You sound unhappy. I can see why. I hope you find things to find those connections in your life that you need.
Sending you a big hug!
You sound unhappy. I can see why. I hope you find things to find those connections in your life that you need.
Sending you a big hug!
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