Where did the man I love go? he suddenly decided he was done
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I'll just add, that I can relate to the feeling sorry for him thing. As much as you will be given excellent advice in life about it's a blessing in disguise etc, it still doesn't stop the feelings. I realise a lot of the negative things about the situation I detached from, does it stop me missing him or wanting a deep emotional chat with him, like we used, not one bit.
"That explains to me why it was delivered almost as calmly and rationally as if he was making a business decision". I witnessed my ex do that many times and it's chilling. Not like as you said the deep way he used to chat.
"That explains to me why it was delivered almost as calmly and rationally as if he was making a business decision". I witnessed my ex do that many times and it's chilling. Not like as you said the deep way he used to chat.
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Originally Posted by ;
I witnessed my ex do that many times and it's chilling. Not like as you said the deep way he used to chat.
He and I had the most marvelous early morning talks about the msot wonderful and random things and I think part of me enjoying that was thinking "well, at least I know he hasn't had a drink for a few hours." (I'm a light sleeper).
Speaking of clinging to dreams, I'm glad my parents have worked things out but I know stories like theirs are rare and their bonding came from other things (loss of my older brother, my suicide attempt maybe, and the fact they are both a bit codie perhaps). I just laughed because my dad left the house (where I have been staying) to drop off a sandwich for my mom and take her for a ride so she can smoke a cigarette (verboten on her work property). I think I thought my xab and I would end up there. I was dead wrong, and I should be relieved and glad about that but so far I'm only summoning relieved and sad. And sometimes just sad, frankly.
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I think I may've mentioned this before in this thread but my mom told me this is something my dad did off and on for years in their relationship when he was on a particularly bad binge. Like he was just gonna wipe the slate clean and start all over and doesn't this sound like the perfect solution? Why are you crying??
He and I had the most marvelous early morning talks about the msot wonderful and random things and I think part of me enjoying that was thinking "well, at least I know he hasn't had a drink for a few hours." (I'm a light sleeper).
Speaking of clinging to dreams, I'm glad my parents have worked things out but I know stories like theirs are rare and their bonding came from other things (loss of my older brother, my suicide attempt maybe, and the fact they are both a bit codie perhaps). I just laughed because my dad left the house (where I have been staying) to drop off a sandwich for my mom and take her for a ride so she can smoke a cigarette (verboten on her work property). I think I thought my xab and I would end up there. I was dead wrong, and I should be relieved and glad about that but so far I'm only summoning relieved and sad. And sometimes just sad, frankly.
He and I had the most marvelous early morning talks about the msot wonderful and random things and I think part of me enjoying that was thinking "well, at least I know he hasn't had a drink for a few hours." (I'm a light sleeper).
Speaking of clinging to dreams, I'm glad my parents have worked things out but I know stories like theirs are rare and their bonding came from other things (loss of my older brother, my suicide attempt maybe, and the fact they are both a bit codie perhaps). I just laughed because my dad left the house (where I have been staying) to drop off a sandwich for my mom and take her for a ride so she can smoke a cigarette (verboten on her work property). I think I thought my xab and I would end up there. I was dead wrong, and I should be relieved and glad about that but so far I'm only summoning relieved and sad. And sometimes just sad, frankly.
Your parents story is rare but how beneficial it is to have their insights into how these relationships work out. It's plain horrible in my humble opinion to cut someone out when you were once so close. His last words to me were, "never forgotten" with a kiss after it! I'll be forever bewildered how some people are so cold/matter of fact.
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Originally Posted by ;
Yes although in my case he did wipe the slate clean as they tend to do after rehab. Our deepest chats used to be early morning too. In a sense I think it was payback for my walking out on him but who knows.
Your parents story is rare but how beneficial it is to have their insights into how these relationships work out. It's plain horrible in my humble opinion to cut someone out when you were once so close. His last words to me were, "never forgotten" with a kiss after it! I'll be forever bewildered how some people are so cold/matter of fact.
Your parents story is rare but how beneficial it is to have their insights into how these relationships work out. It's plain horrible in my humble opinion to cut someone out when you were once so close. His last words to me were, "never forgotten" with a kiss after it! I'll be forever bewildered how some people are so cold/matter of fact.
I also wanted to say that I've been reading a lot about people leaving their partners after rehab. I think my other fear is that even if he went, maybe I wouldn't like sober him. He definitely didn't appreciate sober me. What a waste of time and energy I would've felt waiting for him. When he broke up with me, I briefly asked to try a little longer. "Why?" he said, still calm. "It will just get worse."
Probably truest thing he ever said.
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Reading that actually made me feel sick to my stomach because I know so well the effect of it. Maybe I should add that to the list as well as the feeling of having been used as a sex object while he contemplated the perfect timing of "when to break it off." That, if anything, should've killed my love for him completely.
I also wanted to say that I've been reading a lot about people leaving their partners after rehab. I think my other fear is that even if he went, maybe I wouldn't like sober him. He definitely didn't appreciate sober me. What a waste of time and energy I would've felt waiting for him. When he broke up with me, I briefly asked to try a little longer. "Why?" he said, still calm. "It will just get worse."
Probably truest thing he ever said.
I also wanted to say that I've been reading a lot about people leaving their partners after rehab. I think my other fear is that even if he went, maybe I wouldn't like sober him. He definitely didn't appreciate sober me. What a waste of time and energy I would've felt waiting for him. When he broke up with me, I briefly asked to try a little longer. "Why?" he said, still calm. "It will just get worse."
Probably truest thing he ever said.
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Originally Posted by ;
Yes I hear that a lot, they can be very different when sober. Although would have been nice to have made that choice for myself. You seem to be getting good perspective from it all.
I am seeing his aunt Friday to drop off some boxes I had promised. I'm still wavering on the "tell, don't tell" but I wanted to say goodbye. I really liked her and was looking forward to getting to know her better but she is also moving soon out of my city so at least there's not that dangling bit.
"Payback for walking out" - do you think your walking out at all helped him finally get to rehab?
That I could've inspired him to pull himself back from the brink is the belief system I really need to leave behind. But how does one do it without becoming numb to others or building huge walls?
The fact is, no one can change this for him except him. No one can change anyone else. Your example of living a "better" way would be totally lost on him, he is doing things his way.
In fact your quitting drinking and furthering your fitness might even have triggered him. He at least had a semi-drinking buddy, now not even that!
The truth is, he would have to sober up, seek recovery from alcoholism, , find counselling and probably years of it to make a recovery. But again, he would have to want to do that and that's not the case here.
As for becoming numb to others or building walls, neither is necessary. All you have to do is accept the above, no one can change anyone else (nor should you want to really). The key is to accept people just the way they are.
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Originally Posted by ;
Your example of living a "better" way would be totally lost on him, he is doing things his way.
In fact your quitting drinking and furthering your fitness might even have triggered him. He at least had a semi-drinking buddy, now not even that!
In fact your quitting drinking and furthering your fitness might even have triggered him. He at least had a semi-drinking buddy, now not even that!
Although I do pause for a second and wonder if he often thought I had an alcohol problem since I was so big on it being a concern for me? Well, it is. That was me being transparent and open with him, so be it.
Originally Posted by ;
The truth is, he would have to sober up, seek recovery from alcoholism, , find counselling and probably years of it to make a recovery. But again, he would have to want to do that and that's not the case here.
Originally Posted by ;
As for becoming numb to others or building walls, neither is necessary. All you have to do is accept the above, no one can change anyone else (nor should you want to really). The key is to accept people just the way they are.
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Hi fightingfair,
These things help me get beyond those natural feelings of having been betrayed.
Bouncing back from rejection
These things help me get beyond those natural feelings of having been betrayed.
Bouncing back from rejection
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I'm trying although sometimes I feel like I might be talking lines where my heart isn't yet. Need to get them to match up. But I've always been a very goal-oriented person and sometimes something as simple as writing down "Don't look back" and checking it off everyday helps.
I am seeing his aunt Friday to drop off some boxes I had promised. I'm still wavering on the "tell, don't tell" but I wanted to say goodbye. I really liked her and was looking forward to getting to know her better but she is also moving soon out of my city so at least there's not that dangling bit.
"Payback for walking out" - do you think your walking out at all helped him finally get to rehab?
I am seeing his aunt Friday to drop off some boxes I had promised. I'm still wavering on the "tell, don't tell" but I wanted to say goodbye. I really liked her and was looking forward to getting to know her better but she is also moving soon out of my city so at least there's not that dangling bit.
"Payback for walking out" - do you think your walking out at all helped him finally get to rehab?
Yes I think it did, but my feeling is a part of him is angry at me walking out. I do wonder will he ever realise that, but have no control over that. Who knows what their brains think, he went to rehab and was really "into" it, but his refusal to apologise even in a small way when I asked him was he mad at me for walking out, said a lot! He just threw a lot of AA jargon at me about not being able to change past or future blah blah blah.
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Originally Posted by ;
Who knows what their brains think, he went to rehab and was really "into" it, but his refusal to apologise even in a small way when I asked him was he mad at me for walking out, said a lot! He just threw a lot of AA jargon at me about not being able to change past or future blah blah blah.
If I had to sum up the biggest feeling of betrayal at the breakup it's that I thought I expressed that I loved and accepted him for who he is. And that I was willing to be there for him if he needed me. But maybe in retrospect this was another place of my words getting in front of my actual state of being because even though I said my limit was the secret drinking, I think he knew there was part of me now that was tuned in and always watchful. Kinda like having a toddler on the playground.
You said:
I panicked and started giving him vitamins! LIke in my head I thought if I stopped drinking and stuck around and did positive things, he would "get it" eventually but in the meantime I would do everything I could to mitigate the effects
And yet when I was honest with him about what I felt watching all the vodka disappear into thin air "there was something wrong with me."
Big disclaimer before I say this next thing! In no way am I blaming you or judging you, please know that.
While I'm sure you think you were accepting his drinking were you really?
You gave him vitamins, did he ask for them? Did he think it was a great idea?
About the vodka, he is a grown up, alcohol is legal, he likes to drink. But you didn't like his drinking and I'm guessing, although not sure from the way you worded it that you told him so.
Again no blame or judgement here just that it isn't accepting. It's hard! You love this person and they are beating their head against the wall and you get to watch and they won't even let you put a small pillow on the wall! But it's their head and their wall.
I'm going to quote something firesprite said earlier today in another thread because this is what I mean - "There is no "right" answer, we're just challenging your old thought process with new ideas"
Hope you don't mind me quoting you FS!
I really feel I have to add something here because I REALLY don't want you to think i'm "blaming" you.
In quoting firesprite what i'm saying is that this is just my "idea" my way of thinking and may not be true for you.
In quoting firesprite what i'm saying is that this is just my "idea" my way of thinking and may not be true for you.
I wish I could get rid of the part that feels so sorry that someone can hate himself this much though. The glimpses I thought I had of him showed me a talented amazing man that was slowly disintegrating. That I could've inspired him to pull himself back from the brink is the belief system I really need to leave behind. But how does one do it without becoming numb to others or building huge walls?
PS - will check out tools . Right now, I kind of feel about sex the way I feel about a drink. It might be permanent pass from this one.
PS - will check out tools . Right now, I kind of feel about sex the way I feel about a drink. It might be permanent pass from this one.
I just thought of something that might help you maintain your emotional boundaries. Have you ever seen some guy sitting on a street corner with a hat collecting spare change? He "seems" like a nice, safe guy. Okay... so you give him a dollar maybe... then what? You could buy him a sandwich... but then he's also thirsty. You could buy him a Coke. But he is also dirty. You could invite him to your home to use your shower... etc. How far do you go? Or here's another example: there's someone at work who you really, really like, but when it comes to any sort of team work or any work that you have to rely on them, they stink. Your team is voting on projects to "ok". This person who is terrible at team work has a project they are excited about. The voting is not anonymous. How do you NOT vote for their project, deal with them being upset at you later, but still appreciate them as a person? There are so many instances where you can't help people.
When it comes to addiction, you have to understand that what the addict wants to do is to hurt themselves... and as crazy as it sounds, they get something out of it. If you have someone who likes hitting their head against a wall cause it excites them, you *could* put them in a straight jacket and strap them to a bed... but that would be cruel, no? They have to want to stop themselves. They have to want to go to get help themselves. If you still love this guy, love him enough to let him have his freedom.
And then months later (if you have been with him for a significant portion of your life and if you resent that you wasted your life with him... like... uh... yours truly) you might be so angry at him it doesn't matter much if you love him anymore because you'll be busy hating him... until you can forgive yourself enough to forgive him too.
I understand the thought that having sex is like having a drink -- it just turns you off. I feel that way about relationships now. I don't know if it's permanent, but it's actually convenient to feel this way. I don't feel lonely... much. It helps to have a pet.
By the way... editing to add that I also gave my ex vitamins. I gave and gave and gave. Did he ask for things? No. Until I said, hey I have to stop giving this to you, is that okay? I have to leave this relationship, is that okay? That is when he went totally bonkers -- I made his life so totally comfortable so that he could drug himself to death, I enabled him so much (without meaning to cause I thought I was "helping"), that the threat of that being taken away would mean he would have to learn to either A. be sober or B. use drugs without me providing the illusion of normalcy, which would mean *work* on his part. I totally understand why you did what you did! I think a lot of us have been there.
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Originally Posted by ;
Big disclaimer before I say this next thing! In no way am I blaming you or judging you, please know that.
While I'm sure you think you were accepting his drinking were you really?
You gave him vitamins, did he ask for them? Did he think it was a great idea?
About the vodka, he is a grown up, alcohol is legal, he likes to drink. But you didn't like his drinking and I'm guessing, although not sure from the way you worded it that you told him so.
Again no blame or judgement here just that it isn't accepting. It's hard! You love this person and they are beating their head against the wall and you get to watch and they won't even let you put a small pillow on the wall! But it's their head and their wall.
I'm going to quote something firesprite said earlier today in another thread because this is what I mean - "There is no "right" answer, we're just challenging your old thought process with new ideas"
While I'm sure you think you were accepting his drinking were you really?
You gave him vitamins, did he ask for them? Did he think it was a great idea?
About the vodka, he is a grown up, alcohol is legal, he likes to drink. But you didn't like his drinking and I'm guessing, although not sure from the way you worded it that you told him so.
Again no blame or judgement here just that it isn't accepting. It's hard! You love this person and they are beating their head against the wall and you get to watch and they won't even let you put a small pillow on the wall! But it's their head and their wall.
I'm going to quote something firesprite said earlier today in another thread because this is what I mean - "There is no "right" answer, we're just challenging your old thought process with new ideas"
1. Just because I didn't agree with him that my actions were manipulative and controlling (even the ones he never knew about, like the vitamins or telling him we had to get places earlier than we did because his lack of awareness when loopy made us late a lot) or thought they were from a benevolent "guidance" part, they were, in fact, YES, controlling and manipulative because they were not actually totally accepting of him and his actions.
2. I realized I could not accept the actions of him hitting his head against the wall repeatedly, even if I thought I was ignoring it. But I also thought I had no choice if I wanted to make it work with "the love of my life." This was incredibly detrimental to my mental health and in the past two days I have been feeling a huge fog lift.
3. He isn't "the love of my life." If he was, we wouldn't have been defeated by this.
4. I probably didn't really know him at all. I think he went through this relationship in a drunken haze - possibly a little sober and intense in the beginning but he couldn't hold on without drowning or dulling his emotions. Eventually I would feel like I was knowing him less and less and the evenings would start becoming a repeat of the end - this sense of a pwer struggle or confusion as to why we were covering a topic (especially deep intimate topics) that I felt like we had covered and answered before. That this whole "love affair" is probably a brownout for him, and why should I hold on to the memories like they were something real?
5. After so many meltdowns with him, I had felt myself opening up to a Plan B. To be single again, working on my own schedule, taking care of myself, traveling places with someone who isn't panicking because they aren't in the "safe space" of their home where they can drown in vodka (and realizing they weren't quite the world traveler they presented themselves as), knowing I don't have to worry about him anymore (well, I still kinda do, but at a distance).
6. That there's probably someone else out there when I'm ready (although it's gonna be awhile)
7. That I'm so grateful I've brought myself back from the brink of relying on alcohol to drown my own feelings and anxiety. Just last night, I went to my local grocery store where there is a wine bar I used to frequent and know most of the regulars. Running into them I realize how deep into my cups I was and seeing some of them - particularly one kind of odious and creepy guy - I realized this could've been him. Heck, it could've been me!
8. That I have amazing friends and a support system and I wish I had let more people know what was going on because now that they do, they have been so helpful. I look forward to cooking out with them this weekend (although will still probably pass on booze) and getting to know new faces. It's also made me realize I don't need to dwell on this or explain it either - there's no failure here or anything I should be ashamed of. I didn't leave him because I cared too much and I let it cloud my judgment, but I will find tools going ahead. Even if means continuing to read and post here when I am feeling weak and miss him. Because I anticipate I will, whether or not our love was actually "real".
9. My denial on this was particularly deep because I thought I was "too good" to have chosen to date an alcoholic. And it was also deep because I wanted to have a relationship with someone I could drink with without worrying. I haven't had a drink in almost 20 days now, and while I haven't made the decision to cut back "forever", this will definitely affect how and when and how much I consume alcohol in the future and how I choose my partners.
Originally Posted by ;
When it comes to addiction, you have to understand that what the addict wants to do is to hurt themselves... and as crazy as it sounds, they get something out of it. If you have someone who likes hitting their head against a wall cause it excites them, you *could* put them in a straight jacket and strap them to a bed... but that would be cruel, no? They have to want to stop themselves. They have to want to go to get help themselves. If you still love this guy, love him enough to let him have his freedom.
Originally Posted by ;
I gave and gave and gave. Did he ask for things? No. Until I said, hey I have to stop giving this to you, is that okay? I have to leave this relationship, is that okay? That is when he went totally bonkers -- I made his life so totally comfortable so that he could drug himself to death, I enabled him so much (without meaning to cause I thought I was "helping"), that the threat of that being taken away would mean he would have to learn to either A. be sober or B. use drugs without me providing the illusion of normalcy, which would mean *work* on his part. I totally understand why you did what you did!
Originally Posted by ;
And then months later (if you have been with him for a significant portion of your life and if you resent that you wasted your life with him... like... uh... yours truly) you might be so angry at him it doesn't matter much if you love him anymore because you'll be busy hating him... until you can forgive yourself enough to forgive him too.
Originally Posted by ;
I understand the thought that having sex is like having a drink -- it just turns you off. I feel that way about relationships now. I don't know if it's permanent, but it's actually convenient to feel this way. I don't feel lonely... much. It helps to have a pet.
Probably still lurking for awhile ... I want to thank everyone for their words on this post and elsewhere.
I hope you more than lurk fightingfair, I hope you continue to post, your posts help others as well.
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UPDATE: Yesterday evening, I returned from a restful weekend away with my family to find a few worthless odds and ends that must've missed the move piled up by my apartment door. And my first reaction to it was to .... laugh? Yes, I laughed. I've been moving through the grieving process, shedding tears and layers but in the last 17 days of NC I've been moving forward slowly and feeling lighter. I mean, I was gonna survive without that flower pot!
I have continued to block all other contact from him (phone and email). I did talk to his aunt when I dropped off boxes. She was wonderful and I felt like I was more able to move forward at least knowing someone in the family was aware of this issue since he is such a loner. We both agreed he wasn't going to do anything until he was good and ready (and she well understood his traits that make that less likely - my ex was at heart very insecure and obsessed with being right), but I do not regret sharing - even if I had struggled with it being a last act of manipulation. I think where I landed on that was if I had intended to stay in his life someway, perhaps. But I'm walking away so I really don't have anything to gain here (and I also mentioned my own flaws in not walking earlier to her. I tried to give a "fair" picture).
Anyway, I plan on checking in weekly here and hopefully to add my own two cents when I see people in similar situations. There are still some mornings where I wake up and it feels like I've buried someone but I'm realizing I'm a lot stronger than I was and that he did me a great favor by taking himself out of my life. (And hopefully the front door drop offs will now cease).
I have continued to block all other contact from him (phone and email). I did talk to his aunt when I dropped off boxes. She was wonderful and I felt like I was more able to move forward at least knowing someone in the family was aware of this issue since he is such a loner. We both agreed he wasn't going to do anything until he was good and ready (and she well understood his traits that make that less likely - my ex was at heart very insecure and obsessed with being right), but I do not regret sharing - even if I had struggled with it being a last act of manipulation. I think where I landed on that was if I had intended to stay in his life someway, perhaps. But I'm walking away so I really don't have anything to gain here (and I also mentioned my own flaws in not walking earlier to her. I tried to give a "fair" picture).
Anyway, I plan on checking in weekly here and hopefully to add my own two cents when I see people in similar situations. There are still some mornings where I wake up and it feels like I've buried someone but I'm realizing I'm a lot stronger than I was and that he did me a great favor by taking himself out of my life. (And hopefully the front door drop offs will now cease).
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No offense..BUT.. It's his house..I'd NEVER let someone move outta my place without I or an associate being there(hell..even the cops if need be.) You seem way too wrapped up in this 'fling' and I'd, personally(and I've done this before) 100% have someone there while you and your father moved your stuff out. I have expensive stuff. Props to him for having it packed up! As for the Vodka..again..his house and he ended it,so that's his thing and he apparently is an honest guy that does what he does.. Be glad it's over, if you weren't happy and try not to blame 'alcoholism'..Maybe it just didn't work for him anymore.. relationships end every second, booze/drugs included or not.
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