Marriage Counseling--what to expect?

Old 10-30-2018, 09:27 AM
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A little update. I'm not sure anyone cares, but it helps me to write it down for my future self

Husband and I have been to two sessions. The first session was pretty harmless--We both talked about our family histories (are our parents together? when did they split? etc). He talked about this 'manifesto' he wrote shortly after he quit drinking, where he basically admitted to being addicted to having people like him. He would try to get girls to fall for him in highschool/college, then once they did, he would be done with them and move onto the next one. He admits to adjusting himself to what he thinks other people want him to say/do/etc. Says he is a people pleaser. (The therapist said something like "but that doesn't sound like you're pleasing anyone but yourself" which made me giggle)

Second session: Husband talked about how he always just wanted to be my knight in shining armor, make me happy, etc. (Therapist said--"but your actions didn't really match that") He views me as 'broken' due to my childhood, I guess.

Then his complaints about me come out:
  • He did my laundry 100x, but one time when he asked me to sew a button on for him, I didn't. [I could count on my hands how many times I remember him doing my laundry, and he never even put it away for me, which is the worst part! hahah! Also I remember this button incident, and it was like 8 years ago] He saw himself contributing more to the home stuff than I did, I guess. When he moved out and asked me how I was doing--I said "the work load isn't much different" which was my truth. I guess that really hurt his feelings.
  • He was at work and his friend had a nice salad for lunch... his friend said his wife made him the salad... he was jealous, thinks I should make him salads?
  • I don't give him back rubs or foot rubs
  • I don't compliment him enough

I brought up the pills I found in the trashcan from Russia. He said that they were from an old coat he took to his bachelor party (4 years ago) and he thought they were sleeping pills. I know him and his friends did a lot of cocaine at his bachelor party--not sure what sleeping pills would be for, though, or why you would have two packages of them for 3 nights.

He also complained about me "tattling" to his mom about the pills I've found.

All in all--it was almost bizarre. Like--was he in a different relationship than I was? A different house? And if, when I die, the worst someone can say about me is that I didn't sew on a button... I won't be too bummed about that. I do need to work on complimenting people more, I will admit, and I WAS working on it with him, until I found the hidden stash of pills. Then my desire to TRY went out of the window. But I know I have the capacity.
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Old 10-30-2018, 10:13 AM
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AW and I tried MC about 4 years ago, and I meant "tried" because that's all it was, an attempt. It was pretty much useless because she was PO'd that her drinking was brought up and talked about so much... umm, that's the reason are there, snowflake!!! For someone who likes attention as much as she does, she didn't want to talk about anything except what an A-hole I am. So, to save time, money, and frustration, we quit. Then I read more on here about how MC with an active addict was pretty worthless. No pushback from me on that!!
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Old 10-30-2018, 11:14 AM
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All in all--it was almost bizarre. Like--was he in a different relationship than I was?
Yes he was, he was in a relationship with his addiction in his own world. A world where you will always be on the outside looking in.

The therapist clearly see’s through his words right into his selfishness.

You brought up a real issue during therapy, an empty pill package you recently found in the trash and his counter to that was, saying they were from 4 years ago and were in an old coat pocket (guess he’s not worn that coat in 4 years? hum). But his counter punch worked because it now has you thinking it’s possible but the evidence just doesn’t seem to match his story, kind of like when the therapist said but your actions didn’t really match your words.

It’s amazing how all the little crap like not sewing a button on, not making a salad/lunch, not giving him back or feet rubs or not compliment him enough becomes the focus……………all of that piddle little stuff takes away from the real big focus…………..he’s an addict, probably still using. He’s like the magician who has you looking over there at this hand while he’s doing something else with the other.

When someone is still drinking/using and going to a marriage counselor to fix what that drinking/using broke it really defeats the purpose, no.
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Old 10-30-2018, 01:17 PM
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I am going to be blunt. I hope you see this for the BS it really is. Wow.

[QUOTE=AutumnMama;7044467]

Then his complaints about me come out:
  • He did my laundry 100x, but one time when he asked me to sew a button on for him, I didn't. [I could count on my hands how many times I remember him doing my laundry, and he never even put it away for me, which is the worst part! hahah! Also I remember this button incident, and it was like 8 years ago] He saw himself contributing more to the home stuff than I did, I guess. When he moved out and asked me how I was doing--I said "the work load isn't much different" which was my truth. I guess that really hurt his feelings.
  • He was at work and his friend had a nice salad for lunch... his friend said his wife made him the salad... he was jealous, thinks I should make him salads?
  • I don't give him back rubs or foot rubs
  • I don't compliment him enough

QUOTE]
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Old 10-30-2018, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by hopeful4 View Post
I am going to be blunt. I hope you see this for the BS it really is. Wow.
Haha, yeah. I mean, if we were having an otherwise normal marriage, I can see talking to a therapist about things like that. It just seems absurd to mention stuff like that with everything else that's going on. But he has to have his time to speak, too. But yeah, I made some weird faces when he said those things.
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Old 10-30-2018, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by AutumnMama View Post
Haha, yeah. I mean, if we were having an otherwise normal marriage, I can see talking to a therapist about things like that. It just seems absurd to mention stuff like that with everything else that's going on. But he has to have his time to speak, too. But yeah, I made some weird faces when he said those things.
Oh AutumnMama, you button ignorer you!

Well, just so you know, I care and I'm really glad you posted an update. It is helpful for everyone I think and I think atalose makes a very good point about the relationship with alcohol.

Truly the perceptions in a relationship where addiction is present are different (sometimes hugely different). It does vary but perhaps, if you get nothing else out of these sessions, you get some truth. Now it may be skewed truth as we see it out in the "normie" world, but you get to hear first hand how he really thinks and having someone else present for that can only be helpful.
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Old 10-31-2018, 02:21 PM
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"He would try to get girls to fall for him in highschool/college, then once they did, he would be done with them and move onto the next one"


Gosh, this sounds very familiar. An addiction to people not the actual person themselves. Scary.
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Old 10-31-2018, 06:36 PM
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In his world the button and the salad probably have taken on significance they would not have in anyone else's world. They probably have some deep meaning in his private mythology which you will never be able to understand. It sounds like he is determined to find fault.
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Old 10-31-2018, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Sasha1972 View Post
In his world the button and the salad probably have taken on significance they would not have in anyone else's world. They probably have some deep meaning in his private mythology which you will never be able to understand. It sounds like he is determined to find fault.
i think you’re right. Is that a normal thing to do...? Is it common in relationships?
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Old 10-31-2018, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by AutumnMama View Post


i think you’re right. Is that a normal thing to do...? Is it common in relationships?
I think everyone has their personal quirks or things which irritate them a bit about their partner. I think healthy people are able to say to themselves "Okay, quirk X bugs me but is it a really big deal? No, in the grand scheme of things it is not. Therefore I recognize that the fact that it irritates me is my issue, not a huge problem with my partner".

I also think that alcoholics are so used to projecting blame onto other people (it's YOUR fault I'm so unhappy/stressed/whatever that I drink all the time!) that they keep projecting blame outwards even when it's really something minor - it bothered me that you didn't sew the button on my shirt, so it must be YOUR fault that I feel bothered.
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:18 AM
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People use their DOC to ignore confronting painful issues... and those issues can and often do include their behavior towards others. This is why I never recommend marriage counseling with an addict who hasn't already been in recovery (for an extended period of time). When I ended my relationship, my AX brought up things I did or didn't do from 10 years ago -- really minor things. And then the major thing: the constant stress of not knowing when the next OD would happen, and having the burden of care of the health of the relationship, killed my desire for physical intimacy with him (I mean, there is only so many times you can check someone's airways for vomit before you start thinking unsexy thoughts every time you're near them). Unfortunately, in his feeble mind the dissolution of the marriage was my fault. Of course, his selfishness and immaturity never had anything to do with the way people reacted to him. Although he thinks he is the exception to the rule, he is like a lot of other addicts. There are very, very few exceptions to the rule. Grown-ups know this. So they are cautious.

Is it normal for someone to get so upset over a button?

Umm... no. Unless that button has some great symbolic meaning. But unless they TELL you what they really mean, they are just skirting around the issue. What you described is someone who is deeply dysfunctional and possibly not very self-aware. Otherwise he wouldn't be going on about buttons and salads. Or maybe he is self-aware (unlikely) but he's also trying to "keep score" -- he's vindictive, he's looking for ways to make you feel insecure (... and he may do this even if he wants to "repair" the relationship because he thinks that being in a relationship with a codie "benefits" him somehow.)

He's also trying to gaslight you.

But the real loser in this game he's playing is him. He is going to destroy himself if he doesn't get real. You have nothing to do with that choice.

You can't force a shrub to be a tree. Just let him shrub. You go tree. Alone. Tree is great. Tree live longer than shrub.
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Old 11-01-2018, 09:39 AM
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Well today I actually did screw up. He had an interview on the radio this morning and I forgot to listen to it. I have a lot of excuses: was up a lot at night dealing with sick child, he didn't really tell me when it was, I didn't know it was a LIVE interview, etc. But I guess I could have cared more and done some research myself. I would have wanted him to listen to me if i did a live interview. It would have hurt my feelings, too.

So I called to apologize, saying I was sorry and I'm not sure why it just wasn't on my mind at the time to try to listen. He gave me a knowing "oh... I know why it wasn't on your mind..." passive agressive comment. I asked what he meant by that, he said we could talk about it in our next session.

He has told me repeatedly that he refuses to talk about serious things with me without a third party there because I "get everything mixed up" or I don't hear what he is actually saying.

But I gave him the gift of a very large "button" that he can hold on to for a long time into the future. ("Remember that time you forgot to listen to my interview on the radio!")

It's becoming apparent that he doesn't even see me for who I am anymore. I can't say anything to change how he sees me. That is so frustrating. I am about 80% sure that I'm not the awful person he thinks I am... but there's still that 20% that I need to work on in therapy.

I just---I'm scared---the way things are set up right now, I have our son all the time. Every night. Husband can see him when he wants, I don't ever tell him no, but he just doesn't see him often. I don't want to lose that. I want to put my son to bed every night. Maybe I need to adjust my expectations to something more realistic.
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Old 11-01-2018, 09:51 AM
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It must be exhausting to be keeping score in your relationship all the time.

You know these things happen. If it was that important to him that you listen to the interview, wouldn't he at least have been clear about when exactly it was?
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Old 11-01-2018, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by AutumnMama View Post
He has told me repeatedly that he refuses to talk about serious things with me without a third party there because I "get everything mixed up" or I don't hear what he is actually saying.
Well, you are not going to do everything perfectly to his expectations at all times. Go figure! You actually have thoughts and dreams and a life and responsibilities that have nothing to do with him. Why is it that he can't see that he is not the center of your universe? hmm

That whole - you get everything mixed up or don't hear what he is actually saying.

You know that is not true right? You may not "get" what he is saying because he is coming from button world, not your world.

You aren't "mixed up", That's you are not seeing things MY way so you are wrong. That is NOT true. Your truth is yours, not his, he doesn't get to decide what your truth is. He has his button world and he gets to have that, for sure, that's his to own.

The resentment coming from him is clear and not totally unexpected from someone in addiction.

I guess all i'm saying is please don't try to apply "normal" to any of this, you will just end up with a whole lot of blaming yourself that will result in nothing, except making you feel bad.
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Old 11-01-2018, 11:48 AM
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Maybe I need to adjust my expectations to something more realistic.
Yes, bring those expectations way down and see the reality of what is and not the fantasy of how you’d like it to be.
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Old 11-01-2018, 06:27 PM
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Umm... I think a sick child is more important than a radio interview. If my partner or ex missed my radio interview because our child was sick, I would be asking after the child's wellbeing.

Imho... the reason he only wants to address your issues in counselling is because that way you can walk on eggshells all week until you get to session. I get it... my ex also used to tell me that I didn't listen (to him). I put up with a lot of abuse. I wanted children but am thankful that I had none with him because I wouldn't want to raise a child who sees or hears their father treat their mother the way my ex treated me.

By saying that you don't understand him or listen to him or hear him... and saying that he needs a third party to explain things to you, he is trying to reinforce the fantastical idea that he is superior to you in some way. He is not. He has a deep sense of inferiority and is angered by this because of his deep sense of entitlement. You can't fix this for him no matter what changes YOU make for him.

Also... I think this is abuse (but you don't have to agree).
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by AutumnMama View Post
It's becoming apparent that he doesn't even see me for who I am anymore. I can't say anything to change how he sees me. That is so frustrating. I am about 80% sure that I'm not the awful person he thinks I am... but there's still that 20% that I need to work on in therapy..
I looked back at some of your other posts AutumnMama and one in particular stood out to me:

Then he said he kept escalating the relationship to try to make me happy. If we buy a house, she'll be happy--if we get married, she'll be happy--if we become financially stable, she'll be happy--if we have a kid, she'll be happy. He said he used alcohol on the weekends to help be the guy to 'make me happy'. (Although apparently he used to say he had to go out of town for work but would, in reality, go to a hotel and drink for a few days... which didn't really revolve around making me happy...)
The whole thing about having a great rush when he would finally get girls in college that were a "challenge" and how you were a challenge.

Anyway, that part above, that sounds to me like he's talking about himself not about you. As in, if we buy a house, maybe I will be happy etc etc

Now, this probably has nothing to do with you at all, the happy/unhappy (if unsure just re-read the drinking to make YOU happy and the going to a hotel for a weekend to drink confession). That has zero to do with making you happy and is all about him and I suspect the rest of it is too.

Maybe others here have experienced that kind of behavior from their SO.

Anyway it's just a thought that came to me in re-reading some of the things you have written and from the way he blames you for buttons and salads (because he probably can't really come up with anything concrete that would be plausible in front of a third party).

Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which the human ego defends itself against unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others. (Wikipedia).
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