Codependents have an overdeveloped belief in their own power......
 

This is something that comes up for me from time to time.

"Codependents have an overdeveloped belief in their own power to produce results in other people’s beliefs, attitudes, and behavior. This is one of the fundamental symptoms of codependency"

Not easy admit but I can be in a room of people and believe that I can affect people's behaviours or reactions. It is actually quite draining and I have to catch myself when it happens. It takes the focus off of myself and it is in a way me trying to control people or people pleasing. It happened last weekend, at a course I'm doing, and I noticed it happened a lot. I wasnt able to relax and was trying to affect others. This from what I've researched is a big codependent behaviour.

"In all fairness, this “belief” isn’t always conscious. It originates in childhood experiences, where we came to believe that we had the power to make our parents happy, angry, sad, or ashamed because of our behavior". #psychcentral.com

Anyone else notice this in themselves?
Next time I'm at the course, I'm going to consciously make an effort to not people please and be ok with myself. I was obviously feeling a bit low and not liking myself that I was trying to gain outside validation. Annoyed I didn't realise it at the time, but I knew something was "off"!

What's kind of implied but not stated above is that is actually the truth in childhood. You DO have the power to make your parents feel that way (in general).

The realization should be that as an adult you don't need that kind of feedback from others. While we all like to be acknowledged for a job well done or a good idea (or heck, nice shoes), I think that's normal. When we seek it continuously to make ourselves feel good and then base our ideas about ourselves on that, that's a problem (as you know).

Ideally we feel good enough about ourselves that we have that solid base and don't need to seek it. Compliments or acknowledgement is icing on the cake only.

It's not easy but totally doable.

Just a tool that might help, try listening more than contributing and take time to think about what others are saying and what ideas they are sharing. Really listening to people can be really rewarding.

Yes good advice, ironically the course trains us in active listening lol. Taking time to think before speaking, and noticing how I'm feeling will be key for the next time. I find I can do this anywhere, gym, a course, a restaurant! Realising I'm not responsible for others feelings, reactions or emotions is something I go back and forth with. Was doing well in first few weeks of codependency awareness, but I slip. Good to be aware though.

It's an interesting idea. An alcoholics M.O. (at least mine) was manipulation. But the goal was the same. To control someone else's beliefs, attitudes and behavior.

Yeh good to explore it. When you say that was your M.O. would you say that was conscious or unconscious?

Glenjo, I'm not sure I could even tell you if it was conscious or unconscious. I think it was the only way I knew how to get what I wanted for so long that I didn't even question how or why. I just did it.

I find this really interesting. Do you think you felt the need to be manipulative because revealing the real you would be off-putting (low opinion of yourself/lifestyle of alcoholism), ie: being charming to get what you want whether that was money or to watch the movie you want to watch.

Or for some other reason?

What do you think motivates that kind of entitlement, if you have pondered that?

That made me laugh!

Yes, Trail, I do. I think it was all based on fear. If I show you the real me either A) you will reject me because I'm "less than" or B) if I can't manipulate you to get what I want, I'm going to lose something that's important to me. To be fair, it wasn't really the little things like picking a movie or getting to chose the restaurant. It was more about the things that had a direct bearing on my self esteem or security. It's a classic 4th step story for any alcoholic. Manipulate to ensure security, ego and control remain intact. It's a horrible way to live. It really is.

this makes me think of the fact that each person is separate individual. Lol...the developing infant has to actually learn that the mother is separate individual from him/her. At first, the infant has no distinction. As the child develops...it comes to understand that other individuals have their own thought and feelings and emotions...that they control. A seperateness of Mind.

Through the years of development...this awareness becomes more distinct and "polished". One reason that teenagers, at a certain point, become sooo critical of everything about their parents....because, they come into the awareness that there are many different options, available....of ways to think, and feel and to behave and what music to listen to and what to wear and what political beliefs, etc. "OMG---I am soo different than my parents!"...…(and they are so stupid)…..
This growing awareness of the Self...brings an awareness that we do not need to think for other people, and plan for them, and ESPECIALLY not to actually feel their feelings and express them for the other person. Because they are completely separate people.
Empathy is one thing and an essential part of being a human....but, living for and through another person is just tooo much work---we cannot live for two people.
None of this...or, very little, happens at a conscious level...it is just a part of how we are wired to develop....

Don't know if any of this sheds any light---just some of what is rattling around in my head....lol.....

This feeds into my favorite definition of the term co-dependency---"Co-dependency is less about our relationships with other people than it is about a lack of relationship with ourselves:.....

I think that's a good definition Dandylion.

Bottom line, if you hated your parents as a teen you are ok

kidding lol (kind of)

Yes, it sounds just horrible.

trailmix…..Yes....lol...I think that is true.
In my case....there were certain behaviors that were not allowed.....showing any disrespect for parents,,,or, any adults, was forbidden. No back-talk, no rudeness, no slamming doors or rolling eyes, etc. We were told to keep it to ourselves,,,and, that when were grown, we could do what we wanted. LOl...I can remember going into my own room and talking into the closet and saying the "awful" thoughts I had about my parents. Otherwise...I think I would have found my head separated from my body....that never happened, but, I always figured that would happen......

I think that's why boundaries are so hard for people new to recovery. Learning to respect other people's as well as learning healthy ones for ourselves. For me personally, that's where AA has been the most key. I spent so much time in a fog that I never really grew up emotionally for years and years. There was no "owner's manual" for my life. I had to learn later on in life what 90% of my peers had already figured out. Playing catch up isn't fun later in life. Lol.

:lmao

I'm glad it didn't!

Yes, those were not allowed as I was growing up either. No back talk, no yelling, you followed the rules or else! In hindsight it was all pretty normal (from my Mother). My Father rarely participated in our upbringing (thankfully) and on the rare occasions he did, he got it all wrong.

I was a door slammer as a teen, ok I may have slammed a few doors as an adult too.

In fact, I will tell my door story.

A few years ago some kids were riding up and down the sidewalk on an electric bike (illegal and omg noisy). Well after an hour or so of this, I had had enough so on the next run by I went out and stopped him and talked to him (that ended that).

On my way back in to the house I slammed the screen/half glass door.

Needless to say the door shattered in to a few thousand pieces.

That feels good to confess (not really but it's funny in hindsight).

Oh, and I don't slam doors anymore.

I do not envy you. The struggle of alcoholism is amazing. Between the actual drug, the catch up you have to play once you get sober, learning a new way of functioning in the world and examining your behaviours.

It's a huge struggle, perhaps one that most don't understand and I imagine many alcoholics aren't getting pats on the back from family and friends.

BlownOne and trailmix…..^^^^I really agree with this. But, I do think that the good news, is, that....given enough time and persistence....catching up is absolutely one hundred per cent doable...…!

It does sound tough, and I can see in my ex that he never grew up emotionally and will be doing all that now. I feel as a codependent I am on catch up too so it's interesting you brought it up. I feel like lots of other people have this stuff worked out years ago, the healthy happy relationship with themselves, healthy boundaries, looking after their own needs. I was probably emotionally immature enough for his emotional immaturity. My sense is that it's not too late to change it. I'm banking on it.

[QUOTE=trailmix;7029769]What's kind of implied but not stated above is that is actually the truth in childhood. You DO have the power to make your parents feel that way (in general).

I actually disagree with you on that part, about you do have the power to make our parents feel that way. We don't! Nobody can make anyone feel anything, it's their choice how they choose to reaction to behaviours. Yes people can be triggered by others, and feelings come up, but ultimately they can't make you feel it. This is the Crux of recovering from codependency is it not? Realising we are responsible for our own reactions, behaviours, feelings etc.

That's why the piece I read made so much sense. As kids we thought WE had that power over our parents, we didn't. They had the choice, their own power. We only ever had ours too.

Glenjo...I see what you are saying---but, remember that the parents or caregivers were not always in "recovery" during the time their children were little...….

I think that the child learns how to "manipulate" their environment (and the people)---in the sense that they learn what works--in order to stay safe...or get their essential needs met, or sometimes, just to survive.
They may learn, for instance...that if they stay very quiet or stay under the radar...Dad won't hit me or mom won't yell at me. Or
If I make really good grades and help a lot around the house...my parents will be happy and my family will be happy again (small children often assume that they are the cause of parental unhappiness or problems)…..


The thing is...the methods that children use to survive or cope with their environment are actually "functional" for the situation...in, that, it allows the child to survive. However these same methods may be dysfunctional as they use these learned behaviors in their adult lives.....