Extreme depression
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 309
Extreme depression
What do you say to someone newly in recovery that is facing extreme depression/guilt/shame to the point they can't seem to move past it?
The person is in intensive outpatient, goes to AA meetings and is seeing a counselor but the depression is still overwhelming. Also is on anti-depressants.
I read that depression is normal because they have to now deal with their feelings instead of drinking through them
The person is in intensive outpatient, goes to AA meetings and is seeing a counselor but the depression is still overwhelming. Also is on anti-depressants.
I read that depression is normal because they have to now deal with their feelings instead of drinking through them
Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,137
Not sure what you mean with what to say to them? Also I find that depression is a clinical condition whereas guilt/shame are just bad feelings. From what you wrote it sounds like that person is already getting all help they can get. Maybe just wait and give them time? I got very depressed in early recovery and it got better after a while. The brain chemicals need to readjust to being sober, that can take up to 2 years. Also I had to learn how to deal with emotions.
But that only helps to a certain degree with clinical depression.
Also antidepressants can take a few weeks until they start working. Or maybe they need to change meds as not all antidepressants work for every person.
It looks like the person you’re talking about is working on themselves. Be patient, let them know you’re there but don’t expect them to change too much too quickly. Early recovery are baby steps. And sometimes even 2 steps forward, one back. If they are seriously suicidal get help though, even if that’s going to the ER with them.
That’s what I know about depression and recovery from my experience at least
But that only helps to a certain degree with clinical depression.
Also antidepressants can take a few weeks until they start working. Or maybe they need to change meds as not all antidepressants work for every person.
It looks like the person you’re talking about is working on themselves. Be patient, let them know you’re there but don’t expect them to change too much too quickly. Early recovery are baby steps. And sometimes even 2 steps forward, one back. If they are seriously suicidal get help though, even if that’s going to the ER with them.
That’s what I know about depression and recovery from my experience at least
Life is good
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,036
That. ^^^
Another thing would be to stop talking about it!!
He has support. No need to keep feeding the depression by asking how he's doing or feeling.
Keeping things light and bright between friends and family members is a valid, solid recovery tool. Talking about music, flowers, types of birds, whatever it takes. Talking about recovery 24/7 can be exhausting. Learning to enjoy the moment or a short phone call is helpful to both parties.
How often do you talk, and does he call you or feel like he has to? Do you feel like you need to call him often?
Another thing would be to stop talking about it!!
He has support. No need to keep feeding the depression by asking how he's doing or feeling.
Keeping things light and bright between friends and family members is a valid, solid recovery tool. Talking about music, flowers, types of birds, whatever it takes. Talking about recovery 24/7 can be exhausting. Learning to enjoy the moment or a short phone call is helpful to both parties.
How often do you talk, and does he call you or feel like he has to? Do you feel like you need to call him often?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 309
The loved one reached out to me earlier today via a phone call to ask me something not pertaining to recovery. The conversation was upbeat and there was laughter. I felt it was a short but good conversation.
A few hours later I get a text that the loved one had to leave work early because the depression was unbearable. I didn't know how to respond other than ask if it comes at certain times of the day or all the time because the conversation we had earlier seemed like there was happiness in the voice. I asked when the appt was for the therapist and encouraged honesty there as well as in group when they have share time.
Hard to find things to talk about when the loved one has no interests or hobbies. Last number of years was lost to addiction and that ruined dissolved any other activities once found pleasurable by the loved one. I was told not by my counselor not to ask if he relapsed or if he was hanging with not so good friends, etc. Other than ask about work or the weather, there really isn't anything to talk about. As for needing to speak to the loved one daily, etc. No, I don't need to but I would like to know that they are okay and in a good state of mind. Being so far away like this is excruciatingly painful. Depression now and the holidays didn't even get here... I don't call him unless he asks me to. I don't facetime unless it is initiated. So it could be days in between phone calls. Sometimes 2 to 3 days between a text message.
A few hours later I get a text that the loved one had to leave work early because the depression was unbearable. I didn't know how to respond other than ask if it comes at certain times of the day or all the time because the conversation we had earlier seemed like there was happiness in the voice. I asked when the appt was for the therapist and encouraged honesty there as well as in group when they have share time.
Hard to find things to talk about when the loved one has no interests or hobbies. Last number of years was lost to addiction and that ruined dissolved any other activities once found pleasurable by the loved one. I was told not by my counselor not to ask if he relapsed or if he was hanging with not so good friends, etc. Other than ask about work or the weather, there really isn't anything to talk about. As for needing to speak to the loved one daily, etc. No, I don't need to but I would like to know that they are okay and in a good state of mind. Being so far away like this is excruciatingly painful. Depression now and the holidays didn't even get here... I don't call him unless he asks me to. I don't facetime unless it is initiated. So it could be days in between phone calls. Sometimes 2 to 3 days between a text message.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,144
Depression needs to be openly discussed with his doctor. Together, they can find the medication. It takes multiple attempts to find the right medication.
Is the therapist well versed in clinical depression?
It is also his side of the street and he must find a way threw. My mother was always whoa is me attitude instead of being more constructive. Depression may become his theme of life.
The major question is, Is he a danger to himself or others? If he is an emergency call is needed.
Is the therapist well versed in clinical depression?
It is also his side of the street and he must find a way threw. My mother was always whoa is me attitude instead of being more constructive. Depression may become his theme of life.
The major question is, Is he a danger to himself or others? If he is an emergency call is needed.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,637
Originally Posted by hummingbird358 
A few hours later I get a text that the loved one had to leave work early because the depression was unbearable. I didn't know how to respond other than ask if it comes at certain times of the day or all the time because the conversation we had earlier seemed like there was happiness in the voice.
What was his response when you asked if it comes at certain times of the day? I think it's good that you took the opportunity to remind him that earlier he was feeling happier. Sometimes when people are in turmoil or depressed it's easy for them to forget that they have ever been happy, let alone a few hours ago being more at ease.
As everyone has mentioned, unless he is suicidal the best you can offer is your reassurance that it will get better. It might also be a very good idea for him to have a conversation with a psychologist about his antidepressants. While they can take a while to kick in, it's worth mentioning.
As kevlarsjal2 mentioned, not all antidepressants work for everyone. In some places they are now doing tests to match people with the correct drug and having success with that (but of course that's not available everywhere).
Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 681
My RAH is almost 9 mo sober. He just came out of that exact same depression a few weeks ago. Nothing anyone said or did convinced him not to feel guilty or ashamed. His sponser encouraged him, we told him we still loved him no matter what. His hangup was....after everything he did to his family, he didn't deserve to be happy. Maybe he feels that way too? Sadly we can't help them other than letting them know we still love them. Notice and let them know when you see progress in their recovery. They just need time to process it all and come to their own lightbulb moment.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 28,669
HB- that was me. The sense of hopelessness and the horror of the emotions waking up. What worked- was LOTS of support- be it through meetings, walking around malls, just to be around humans, seeing health professionals- GP, psychologist, addiction counsellor-whatever. It is agonizingly slow progress- but I did start to heal. It will take me years- but understanding the past, accepting it- dealing with the emotions has to be faced- with support, every day.
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
hummingbird 
I really don't know what it's like to live through a wave of emotions like that when an alcoholic gives up their warm, emotional security blanket. I imagine it's quite alarming. The way the chemistry of our body plays with our emotions is something we are only just beginning to understand.
Think about women who suffer from PMS and how their own bodies can regulate their emotions. Although I've never read about this anywhere, I have talked to people who are like me in that when I have a cold or flu, I get very depressed--beyond just feeling lousy physically.
Your loved one's own body is having to rewire itself...all kinds of synapses firing at once that were previously anesthetized. It must be overwhelming. And alcohol is a depressant--the effects of which, as I understand it, take a while to leave the body.
It sounds like you are doing the only thing you can do...keep encouraging him to do the next good thing for himself!
I really don't know what it's like to live through a wave of emotions like that when an alcoholic gives up their warm, emotional security blanket. I imagine it's quite alarming. The way the chemistry of our body plays with our emotions is something we are only just beginning to understand.
Think about women who suffer from PMS and how their own bodies can regulate their emotions. Although I've never read about this anywhere, I have talked to people who are like me in that when I have a cold or flu, I get very depressed--beyond just feeling lousy physically.
Your loved one's own body is having to rewire itself...all kinds of synapses firing at once that were previously anesthetized. It must be overwhelming. And alcohol is a depressant--the effects of which, as I understand it, take a while to leave the body.
It sounds like you are doing the only thing you can do...keep encouraging him to do the next good thing for himself!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Southern US
Posts: 510
My husband isn't depressed all day long, but he goes through bouts of it during the day. Like clockwork, every day at 5:00 pm he has a down spell. He says he is ashamed of what he's done, of how far he pushed the limits (he almost died 2 weeks ago), how he's hurt me and our daughter, how he laments that he can't "just be normal".... I let him get it all out and then I'll put my arms around him and tell him it's okay to feel those things. I'll tell him that he's not a failure - that if he WAS a failure he'd still be drinking. That it takes a real man to say "I've got a problem" and to do something about it.
Let them feel what they feel....and then encourage.
My husband hasn't been sober long enough to know, but I suspect he has mental health issues. He's just been drinking so long that any diagnosis has been masked by the alcoholism.
Stay positive for the person you're talking about and just encourage them to keep doing what they're doing. There *is* a light at the end of the tunnel.
Let them feel what they feel....and then encourage.
My husband hasn't been sober long enough to know, but I suspect he has mental health issues. He's just been drinking so long that any diagnosis has been masked by the alcoholism.
Stay positive for the person you're talking about and just encourage them to keep doing what they're doing. There *is* a light at the end of the tunnel.
Guest
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,271
Originally Posted by hummingbird358
What do you say to someone newly in recovery that is facing extreme depression/guilt/shame to the point they can't seem to move past it?
The person is in intensive outpatient, goes to AA meetings and is seeing a counselor but the depression is still overwhelming. Also is on anti-depressants.
I read that depression is normal because they have to now deal with their feelings instead of drinking through them
The person is in intensive outpatient, goes to AA meetings and is seeing a counselor but the depression is still overwhelming. Also is on anti-depressants.
I read that depression is normal because they have to now deal with their feelings instead of drinking through them
First of all, you can't fix them. It's not your responsibility, and you're not going to be able to fix them.
You might do/say something like this. Look them in the eyes, and say, "I am truly sorry for the pain you are going through. I wish I could do or say something to make it go away. Please know I am here to support you in any way I can. Let me know what it is that I can do or say to help you. I want you to know, that even though I don't know what to do or say, I know you are in pain, I see that you are in pain, and I know your feelings are real".
Or something like that.
Or it could be simpler like saying, "I see your pain. I wish I could make it go away. I'm here for you while you work through it. Can I give you a hug?"
There's no timeline for depression. Some people get through it quickly, some people more slowly. It takes what it takes.
Maybe you can also say something like "I'm really proud of you for doing all this hard work you're doing in AA, therapy, and outpatient." That helped me, because I used to focus on something like "Jeez look at me, I am so crazy that I need AA + therapy + intenstive outpatient." There was a lot of shame that made the original depression/shame worse. A reminder of how strong I was for doing all this hard work and growth made me feel a lot better. It sort of helped me to then view it as "tackling my depression", versus falling down the rabbit hole of "being" my depression.
Don't be afraid to ask the person what you can do. Something like, "I know you're going through a challenging time right now. What can I do for you, and what can I avoid doing, that'll help support you?"
I don't know what your relationship is with this person--spouse? Family member? Friend? I think that matters a bit, too.
Don't take it the wrong way if one time, one thing works and another time, it doesn't. It's not personal. One moment the person may appreciate a nice hug, and another time after working through tough stuff, the last thing they want is a hug and just want to be left alone. Sometimes dealing with feelings for the first time in someone's life, it can feel like an intense roller coaster ride for them. Just know eventually when they used to it, it'll calm down. I no longer run away from my feelings of depression, guilt, shame, etc and can catch them quickly as a non judgemental observer. I don't let them take me down the rabbit hole, either. I can break that a lot quicker now.
I hope that helps. I had trouble typing my thoughts about this in a concise way.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 330
Originally Posted by Pathwaytofree
First, I want to say THANK YOU for caring enough to come on here and ask the question. In my past, I think many people thought my depression/guilt/shame was attention-seeking, whining, why-don't-you-just-snap-out-of-it sort of behavior which is not even close to the truth. I was in a great deal of emotional pain, and had no road map to get out of it. Or when a road map was given to me, I needed someone's hand who wasn't in pain to help lead the way.
First of all, you can't fix them. It's not your responsibility, and you're not going to be able to fix them.
You might do/say something like this. Look them in the eyes, and say, "I am truly sorry for the pain you are going through. I wish I could do or say something to make it go away. Please know I am here to support you in any way I can. Let me know what it is that I can do or say to help you. I want you to know, that even though I don't know what to do or say, I know you are in pain, I see that you are in pain, and I know your feelings are real".
Or something like that.
Or it could be simpler like saying, "I see your pain. I wish I could make it go away. I'm here for you while you work through it. Can I give you a hug?"
There's no timeline for depression. Some people get through it quickly, some people more slowly. It takes what it takes.
Maybe you can also say something like "I'm really proud of you for doing all this hard work you're doing in AA, therapy, and outpatient." That helped me, because I used to focus on something like "Jeez look at me, I am so crazy that I need AA + therapy + intenstive outpatient." There was a lot of shame that made the original depression/shame worse. A reminder of how strong I was for doing all this hard work and growth made me feel a lot better. It sort of helped me to then view it as "tackling my depression", versus falling down the rabbit hole of "being" my depression.
Don't be afraid to ask the person what you can do. Something like, "I know you're going through a challenging time right now. What can I do for you, and what can I avoid doing, that'll help support you?"
I don't know what your relationship is with this person--spouse? Family member? Friend? I think that matters a bit, too.
Don't take it the wrong way if one time, one thing works and another time, it doesn't. It's not personal. One moment the person may appreciate a nice hug, and another time after working through tough stuff, the last thing they want is a hug and just want to be left alone. Sometimes dealing with feelings for the first time in someone's life, it can feel like an intense roller coaster ride for them. Just know eventually when they used to it, it'll calm down. I no longer run away from my feelings of depression, guilt, shame, etc and can catch them quickly as a non judgemental observer. I don't let them take me down the rabbit hole, either. I can break that a lot quicker now.
I hope that helps. I had trouble typing my thoughts about this in a concise way.
First of all, you can't fix them. It's not your responsibility, and you're not going to be able to fix them.
You might do/say something like this. Look them in the eyes, and say, "I am truly sorry for the pain you are going through. I wish I could do or say something to make it go away. Please know I am here to support you in any way I can. Let me know what it is that I can do or say to help you. I want you to know, that even though I don't know what to do or say, I know you are in pain, I see that you are in pain, and I know your feelings are real".
Or something like that.
Or it could be simpler like saying, "I see your pain. I wish I could make it go away. I'm here for you while you work through it. Can I give you a hug?"
There's no timeline for depression. Some people get through it quickly, some people more slowly. It takes what it takes.
Maybe you can also say something like "I'm really proud of you for doing all this hard work you're doing in AA, therapy, and outpatient." That helped me, because I used to focus on something like "Jeez look at me, I am so crazy that I need AA + therapy + intenstive outpatient." There was a lot of shame that made the original depression/shame worse. A reminder of how strong I was for doing all this hard work and growth made me feel a lot better. It sort of helped me to then view it as "tackling my depression", versus falling down the rabbit hole of "being" my depression.
Don't be afraid to ask the person what you can do. Something like, "I know you're going through a challenging time right now. What can I do for you, and what can I avoid doing, that'll help support you?"
I don't know what your relationship is with this person--spouse? Family member? Friend? I think that matters a bit, too.
Don't take it the wrong way if one time, one thing works and another time, it doesn't. It's not personal. One moment the person may appreciate a nice hug, and another time after working through tough stuff, the last thing they want is a hug and just want to be left alone. Sometimes dealing with feelings for the first time in someone's life, it can feel like an intense roller coaster ride for them. Just know eventually when they used to it, it'll calm down. I no longer run away from my feelings of depression, guilt, shame, etc and can catch them quickly as a non judgemental observer. I don't let them take me down the rabbit hole, either. I can break that a lot quicker now.
I hope that helps. I had trouble typing my thoughts about this in a concise way.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 8
My personal experience says that counseling doesn't help. It's a temporary relief and you're back to feeling pathetic soon.
The reality is hard. Extremely hard. But you have to keep picking yourself up. You won't find a reason to do it now but with every small positive move, you'll feel little better.
Keep pushing. Try to make yourself better. Keep working otherwise you'll waste a lot of time doing nothing and that makes you regret even more.
The reality is hard. Extremely hard. But you have to keep picking yourself up. You won't find a reason to do it now but with every small positive move, you'll feel little better.
Keep pushing. Try to make yourself better. Keep working otherwise you'll waste a lot of time doing nothing and that makes you regret even more.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 309
Talked with my son via facetime. He looks so awful. Extremely depressed. Does nothing except work and go to aa meetings. Lives alone. We had offered a nice deal for him to go to sober living but he refuses. Asked him again about that and still refuses to go. Just dwells on what he has lost and says he has no life....
We told him that he is newly in recovery and his life will start getting back on the right path and he needs to give it time. ...
When he was in patient, he was so happy. He would call laughing and he would talk about playing games with the other patients. The day after he was discharged I could see him slipping back into his depression. I don't understand why he can't see that.
We told him that he is newly in recovery and his life will start getting back on the right path and he needs to give it time. ...
When he was in patient, he was so happy. He would call laughing and he would talk about playing games with the other patients. The day after he was discharged I could see him slipping back into his depression. I don't understand why he can't see that.
p***enger
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,042
Hi hummingbird,
That must be hard. Having been mostly on the other end, I can tell you "why he can't see that" is because he can't see that. Whether it's the depression and his medications aren't working, or he isn't taking them, or he's using again -- he, so far, can't see it. I hope he will some time soon.
If it isn't too disturbing to you, it's very good of you to keep letting him know you care and you're there for him. Maybe mail him a loving card. People react differently to paper. It's not so scary as electronic faces, and the colors are pretty. I mean it. I always keep pretty cards that people send me. They cheer me up when I'm down.
Don't let his depression affect your mental health. Remember you have your own life!
That must be hard. Having been mostly on the other end, I can tell you "why he can't see that" is because he can't see that. Whether it's the depression and his medications aren't working, or he isn't taking them, or he's using again -- he, so far, can't see it. I hope he will some time soon.
If it isn't too disturbing to you, it's very good of you to keep letting him know you care and you're there for him. Maybe mail him a loving card. People react differently to paper. It's not so scary as electronic faces, and the colors are pretty. I mean it. I always keep pretty cards that people send me. They cheer me up when I'm down.
Don't let his depression affect your mental health. Remember you have your own life!
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
