Feeling guilt post-break up and wishing I was a better support
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Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 108
Hi Surfbee,
I went through a lot of the same emotions in my relationship and breakup with my ex. The feelings of guilt can be absolutely overwhelming. I didn't necessarily feel guilty for ending the relationship, but I felt so much guilt for all the times I was angry with him and all the fights we had. I 100% understand the feeling of wishing I had stayed on my side of the street, had known more about the disease, had the tools to handle it. But the thing is, I didn't. I didn't know going into the relationship that I would need the tools to deal with alcoholism, so of course I didn't have them. Yeah, now going forward, I think I have the tools to handle it much better, as in I would walk away before getting invested. So either way, my ex and I would not be together right now.
I think you just have to cut yourself a lot of slack and actually be really proud of yourself. You were in an extremely difficult and emotionally draining situation. Undoubtedly your ex directly or indirectly blamed you for his drinking or accused you of being controlling or unreasonable, etc., which is abusive and probably ate away at your self-esteem, making you feel all the more guilty now. You have a right to feel hurt, angry, and disappointed by his actions. You have a right to express those feelings. Did you always express those feelings in the most compassionate, empathetic way? Probably not. Nobody puts their best self forward in those circumstances, particularly in these cycles of bad behavior, promises to change, broken promises, more promises to change, etc., especially when this comes at the hands of someone you love and supposedly loves you. I highly doubt that you went off the handle the first time that his alcoholic behavior was an issue. But, yeah after many incidents, how are you going to react? However you expressed your anger about his alcoholic behavior does not negate his behavior, nor does it justify his further bad behavior. Putting aside your reactions to his behavior, would you have treated him the way he has treated you? Would you treat a friend like that? Would you even treat an acquaintance like that?
Do not feel guilty. You SHOULD have been upset. You acted the way you did for a good reason, and it ultimately helped you get yourself out of a really destructive situation.
I went through a lot of the same emotions in my relationship and breakup with my ex. The feelings of guilt can be absolutely overwhelming. I didn't necessarily feel guilty for ending the relationship, but I felt so much guilt for all the times I was angry with him and all the fights we had. I 100% understand the feeling of wishing I had stayed on my side of the street, had known more about the disease, had the tools to handle it. But the thing is, I didn't. I didn't know going into the relationship that I would need the tools to deal with alcoholism, so of course I didn't have them. Yeah, now going forward, I think I have the tools to handle it much better, as in I would walk away before getting invested. So either way, my ex and I would not be together right now.
I think you just have to cut yourself a lot of slack and actually be really proud of yourself. You were in an extremely difficult and emotionally draining situation. Undoubtedly your ex directly or indirectly blamed you for his drinking or accused you of being controlling or unreasonable, etc., which is abusive and probably ate away at your self-esteem, making you feel all the more guilty now. You have a right to feel hurt, angry, and disappointed by his actions. You have a right to express those feelings. Did you always express those feelings in the most compassionate, empathetic way? Probably not. Nobody puts their best self forward in those circumstances, particularly in these cycles of bad behavior, promises to change, broken promises, more promises to change, etc., especially when this comes at the hands of someone you love and supposedly loves you. I highly doubt that you went off the handle the first time that his alcoholic behavior was an issue. But, yeah after many incidents, how are you going to react? However you expressed your anger about his alcoholic behavior does not negate his behavior, nor does it justify his further bad behavior. Putting aside your reactions to his behavior, would you have treated him the way he has treated you? Would you treat a friend like that? Would you even treat an acquaintance like that?
Do not feel guilty. You SHOULD have been upset. You acted the way you did for a good reason, and it ultimately helped you get yourself out of a really destructive situation.
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Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by trailmix 
I actually understand what you mean I think.
In that relationship I imagine you had to do a lot of excusing. I call it that although, in truth they aren't necessarily excuses, they are the truth.
For example, he gets wasted and does something completely stupid, like being an ass that night when that woman from work was there. Now, to you, you know him, you know he isn't generally an ass and maybe deep down is a decent person and that he does care about you, but he is an addict and when people are drunk they do ridiculous things. So you can excuse that because you know that is not the real him, he's hurt, he's scared, he's drunk - whatever the case may be (so he hurts you - which is not ok). He is an alcoholic.
Honestly, even if you were to march over there tomorrow and say let's give this another shot, is he stable enough to be in a relationship? How will you deal with explaining you aren't ignoring him just taking care of yourself (detaching) because, basically, he is selfish and alcoholic.
That's just one example which is meant to convey that all the conflict will still be there. You can't just be with him without conflict correct?
He likes your posts on FB, he deletes one of your pictures, but just one, now adds the one person he knows would annoy/hurt you.
That's just manipulative. Did you find him to be manipulative in general? Did you find the whole situation with his child to be somewhat manipulative (ie: it's been 2 years and I can't manage to get visitation down on paper but she restricts my access so I must drink and you should therefore feel sorry for me)?
In that relationship I imagine you had to do a lot of excusing. I call it that although, in truth they aren't necessarily excuses, they are the truth.
For example, he gets wasted and does something completely stupid, like being an ass that night when that woman from work was there. Now, to you, you know him, you know he isn't generally an ass and maybe deep down is a decent person and that he does care about you, but he is an addict and when people are drunk they do ridiculous things. So you can excuse that because you know that is not the real him, he's hurt, he's scared, he's drunk - whatever the case may be (so he hurts you - which is not ok). He is an alcoholic.
Honestly, even if you were to march over there tomorrow and say let's give this another shot, is he stable enough to be in a relationship? How will you deal with explaining you aren't ignoring him just taking care of yourself (detaching) because, basically, he is selfish and alcoholic.
That's just one example which is meant to convey that all the conflict will still be there. You can't just be with him without conflict correct?
He likes your posts on FB, he deletes one of your pictures, but just one, now adds the one person he knows would annoy/hurt you.
That's just manipulative. Did you find him to be manipulative in general? Did you find the whole situation with his child to be somewhat manipulative (ie: it's been 2 years and I can't manage to get visitation down on paper but she restricts my access so I must drink and you should therefore feel sorry for me)?
When I was considering reconciling with my ex, he told me I was perfect, he wanted to marry me, etc. When I decided that I wouldn't consider a relationship until he sought help for the drinking, he told me he didn't want to have any contact with me. He blocked me on Instagram. I didn't respond. Then he took down all but one picture of us on Instagram (a friend told me). Still I didn't respond. Then he took down one picture of us on Facebook, but left some up. Then he friended a bunch of new girls. Still I didn't respond. Then two weeks later, HE contacted me because he heard my boss was moving and "wanted to make sure that it wouldn't affect me finishing up school and finding what I wanted to do afterword". I just replied, I'm doing fine, thanks for asking, and nothing else. But good lord, talk about manipulation. You just have to block all contact, especially social media.
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Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 330
Hi everyone - an update on my ex !
So I saw him on my street a couple of nights ago - first time I've seen or spoke to him in three weeks - argh... it was good to see his face...
He invited me up to his place and we talked for a few hours. He said he's been seeing a therapist but the whole focus of their chat has been in relation to the kids and pending court case. He said the therapist has only scratched at the surface of his problems (i.e. no chat about his alcoholism yet).
Since that eve he messaged me saying he's aware his emotions are all over the place and he doesn't know what to do to fix it,or what to do first, but thinks that the best course of action is to get his kids back because he believe this is the cause of his pain and sadness. Then he messaged me again later that eve and told me how good it was to see me, he misses me, and sent me a much of old happy pics of us ...
It felt good to get his attention in that way - i won't lie about that - but it also didn't feel right because his demons are still hanging around him and I could feel them ....!
I then saw him tonight again when I was on my way to a gig with my friend. He offered me a lift into town so we could chat, I said ok.I was happy to be by his side again even for just 10 mins. Anyway I expressed to him that I need a healthy partnership... I need him to be making serious moves to recover. i.e. see an addiction therapist and talk specifically about that issue, not just the issue with his kids. He agreed that would be a good idea but feels overwhelmed and finds it hard to motivate himself to make those bigger steps. He also said his mental health has gotten worse since we broke up, he's unhappier but knows he needs to help himself and not rely on me for support. I said of course, and get in touch when he's making real progress. We hugged, said goodbye. That was it!
I enjoyed the gig... the music was amazing - very soothing healing music. I'm home now and I am aware I need to let him go spiritually - and let go of the guilt too... I didn't know what I was dealing with before so I'm learning to cut myself some slack ....! It was good to connect with him though... still feel hope that maybe he will change...but also don't want to waste my time waiting. I just need to let go... let go.
So I saw him on my street a couple of nights ago - first time I've seen or spoke to him in three weeks - argh... it was good to see his face...
He invited me up to his place and we talked for a few hours. He said he's been seeing a therapist but the whole focus of their chat has been in relation to the kids and pending court case. He said the therapist has only scratched at the surface of his problems (i.e. no chat about his alcoholism yet).Since that eve he messaged me saying he's aware his emotions are all over the place and he doesn't know what to do to fix it,or what to do first, but thinks that the best course of action is to get his kids back because he believe this is the cause of his pain and sadness. Then he messaged me again later that eve and told me how good it was to see me, he misses me, and sent me a much of old happy pics of us ...
It felt good to get his attention in that way - i won't lie about that - but it also didn't feel right because his demons are still hanging around him and I could feel them ....!
I then saw him tonight again when I was on my way to a gig with my friend. He offered me a lift into town so we could chat, I said ok.I was happy to be by his side again even for just 10 mins. Anyway I expressed to him that I need a healthy partnership... I need him to be making serious moves to recover. i.e. see an addiction therapist and talk specifically about that issue, not just the issue with his kids. He agreed that would be a good idea but feels overwhelmed and finds it hard to motivate himself to make those bigger steps. He also said his mental health has gotten worse since we broke up, he's unhappier but knows he needs to help himself and not rely on me for support. I said of course, and get in touch when he's making real progress. We hugged, said goodbye. That was it!
I enjoyed the gig... the music was amazing - very soothing healing music. I'm home now and I am aware I need to let him go spiritually - and let go of the guilt too... I didn't know what I was dealing with before so I'm learning to cut myself some slack ....! It was good to connect with him though... still feel hope that maybe he will change...but also don't want to waste my time waiting. I just need to let go... let go.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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Hey surfbee, well! Actually, I'm glad you had a chance to talk to him, sometimes revisiting things is not such a bad idea.
I'm also glad it sounds like you actually had a productive talk with him and that he was able to admit that he hasn't even spoken to the therapist about his addiction and feeling overwhelmed and not able to take that step right now. At least that is honest! He is not dealing with his alcoholism right now, at least you now know that. You also know that he isn't just sitting around having a good time posting videos and redecorating.
Absolutely. I was thinking about this. I have been in a relationship where there was so much conflict. You know, it never occurred to me to feel guilt about fighting back. I saw it as protecting myself and it never occurred to me to view it otherwise until I read your post and 2018LizAnon's. Still, I've decided it's best not to feel guilty lol
As LizAnon mentioned, you were not equipped to deal with the situation you were in. Who is!! You fly by the seat of your pants, I bet a trained psychologist would find it challenging to remain calm in some of those situations.
And that is why I think sometimes revisiting a situation can be helpful. Nothing has really changed except YOU and you see things a bit differently now. Please remember what you said there, so important.
First time I've seen you post about letting go (although hey, could have missed something!). Yes, you can care for him from a distance, that's a good thing, it takes time.
Glad to hear you enjoyed the gig/music, you went out and had a nice time! Huge step there
I'm also glad it sounds like you actually had a productive talk with him and that he was able to admit that he hasn't even spoken to the therapist about his addiction and feeling overwhelmed and not able to take that step right now. At least that is honest! He is not dealing with his alcoholism right now, at least you now know that. You also know that he isn't just sitting around having a good time posting videos and redecorating.
I didn't know what I was dealing with before so I'm learning to cut myself some slack ....!
As LizAnon mentioned, you were not equipped to deal with the situation you were in. Who is!! You fly by the seat of your pants, I bet a trained psychologist would find it challenging to remain calm in some of those situations.
but it also didn't feel right because his demons are still hanging around him and I could feel them ....!
still feel hope that maybe he will change...but also don't want to waste my time waiting. I just need to let go... let go.
Glad to hear you enjoyed the gig/music, you went out and had a nice time! Huge step there
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Join Date: Aug 2018
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Thanks Trailmix!
A lot of good came from talking... Glad I spoke from the heart.
I also said to him that if roles were reversed and It was me who said unpredictable hurtful things to him whilst drunk, it would have an impact on your day to day life. You'd naturally grow resentment and distrust. You'd feel like you were not good enough and you'd be walking around in constant alert mode... . I said it was very stressful for me being in that. So I hope he understands why I would argue and lose my head sometimes. He actually looked like he absorbed what I was saying. (it really helps talking from a calm centred place! And not in high alert anxious old brain mode lol) and the last thing I said to him was that both my heart and mind does not want to let go of him because I love him so much and logically we're actually a good couple too. It's only his demons that are in the way.... he nodded when I said this, and he cried. I said I love him so much and I'm open to a new relationship one day... Also said that I don't totally forgive him yet, and I'm still angry in places, but I'm moving toward forgiveness because I understand he has an illness and we both didn't know how to cope with the chaos. I think he appreciated hearing that. I hugged him, said I love you. And went to my gig...argh... Mad to be able to walk away to a gig to 'enjoy myself' whilst feeling sadness too.
But was an empowering action step as I almost didn't go because it was the first night out where I knew it would be about me and not centred around him. I. E. I knew I wouldn't be going out to discuss him... I'd go out to direct my attention on my friend (who is going through a hard time in her own relationship! Almost a parallel to my own!) So it felt nice to be able to pass on some wisdom lol. And I could see how simple the solution was for her... Basically "focus on yourself and take care of you!" easier said than done. But good to be aware of that... And the music from Xavier Rudd! Was just amazing :-)
Yes I'm very grateful for his honesty...he's always been honest and always appreciated that about him... Just so sad to see him in this stuck place. I'm glad he knows I still love him and will be open to forgiving the past...and will be open to a new start one day on the condition that he gets help about his drinking. 🙏 He said that he thought it was a complete dead end with me for the last three weeks but for the last few days he's realizing there's an opportunity with me...which I sense has given him new hope. But still very hard as I've no idea or guarantee that I'll have him back... And on some level I'll still always wish I had more centredness and more graciousness throughout the relationship.. And maybe it wouldn't have broke... But equally, if he drank less and offered me more reassurance when I needed it, maybe it wouldn't have broke either lol. So it works two ways. But defo more on him!
Letting go....this is the biggest lesson...learning to let go of the relationship, of him, the guilt, learning to forgive myself for my part in it...and learning to forgive him... Somehow feels easier to forgive him than myself... But I'm working on balancing rhe scales with that one. And pray to God for more strength each day... For him and me both.
And I won't check his social media anymore because it just puts fake ideas in your head.
And as seekingcalm said, as you all said, I will give myself this gift of time to heal and love myself each day as much as I can, and let life unfold as it should....
It's actually quite exciting and nice to look at life in a 'living for the moment' way... Knowing I only need to nurture a relationship with myself
and then whoever enters into it, him or someone new, I'll be in a much happier place. As won't be waiting to be rescued again, put it that way! Won't be looking to fix anyone! (tho this will likely always be an instinctive thing to do and want.. But at least I'll be aware of that instinct and need and be more rational about my choices)....
Hoping my my ex comes to me again also... Lol... I love him so much it's very hard not having him... Hope hope hope... anyway, let's see what happens x
A lot of good came from talking... Glad I spoke from the heart.
I also said to him that if roles were reversed and It was me who said unpredictable hurtful things to him whilst drunk, it would have an impact on your day to day life. You'd naturally grow resentment and distrust. You'd feel like you were not good enough and you'd be walking around in constant alert mode... . I said it was very stressful for me being in that. So I hope he understands why I would argue and lose my head sometimes. He actually looked like he absorbed what I was saying. (it really helps talking from a calm centred place! And not in high alert anxious old brain mode lol) and the last thing I said to him was that both my heart and mind does not want to let go of him because I love him so much and logically we're actually a good couple too. It's only his demons that are in the way.... he nodded when I said this, and he cried. I said I love him so much and I'm open to a new relationship one day... Also said that I don't totally forgive him yet, and I'm still angry in places, but I'm moving toward forgiveness because I understand he has an illness and we both didn't know how to cope with the chaos. I think he appreciated hearing that. I hugged him, said I love you. And went to my gig...argh... Mad to be able to walk away to a gig to 'enjoy myself' whilst feeling sadness too.
But was an empowering action step as I almost didn't go because it was the first night out where I knew it would be about me and not centred around him. I. E. I knew I wouldn't be going out to discuss him... I'd go out to direct my attention on my friend (who is going through a hard time in her own relationship! Almost a parallel to my own!) So it felt nice to be able to pass on some wisdom lol. And I could see how simple the solution was for her... Basically "focus on yourself and take care of you!" easier said than done. But good to be aware of that... And the music from Xavier Rudd! Was just amazing :-)
Yes I'm very grateful for his honesty...he's always been honest and always appreciated that about him... Just so sad to see him in this stuck place. I'm glad he knows I still love him and will be open to forgiving the past...and will be open to a new start one day on the condition that he gets help about his drinking. 🙏 He said that he thought it was a complete dead end with me for the last three weeks but for the last few days he's realizing there's an opportunity with me...which I sense has given him new hope. But still very hard as I've no idea or guarantee that I'll have him back... And on some level I'll still always wish I had more centredness and more graciousness throughout the relationship.. And maybe it wouldn't have broke... But equally, if he drank less and offered me more reassurance when I needed it, maybe it wouldn't have broke either lol. So it works two ways. But defo more on him!
Letting go....this is the biggest lesson...learning to let go of the relationship, of him, the guilt, learning to forgive myself for my part in it...and learning to forgive him... Somehow feels easier to forgive him than myself... But I'm working on balancing rhe scales with that one. And pray to God for more strength each day... For him and me both.
And I won't check his social media anymore because it just puts fake ideas in your head.
And as seekingcalm said, as you all said, I will give myself this gift of time to heal and love myself each day as much as I can, and let life unfold as it should....
It's actually quite exciting and nice to look at life in a 'living for the moment' way... Knowing I only need to nurture a relationship with myself
and then whoever enters into it, him or someone new, I'll be in a much happier place. As won't be waiting to be rescued again, put it that way! Won't be looking to fix anyone! (tho this will likely always be an instinctive thing to do and want.. But at least I'll be aware of that instinct and need and be more rational about my choices)....Hoping my my ex comes to me again also... Lol... I love him so much it's very hard not having him... Hope hope hope... anyway, let's see what happens x
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Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 108
Hi Surfbee,
Happy to hear that you are recognizing that his behavior around alcohol is what led to the demise of the relationship because you, rightfully so, realized that this was not something you can tolerate in a partner. As trailmix said, your reactions to his drinking were to protect yourself. You are still very fresh from this breakup. If you are like me, your brain will continue to try to find fault in something you did to help explain the end of the relationship. You will have these moments of extreme clarity where you feel like you did the absolute right thing and you had no other option to protect yourself, but you will also have these moments of doubt where you think you were a terrible person, you made the drinking worse, you'll never find anyone else, and you made a huge mistake, etc. I think this happens because you still want the relationship to work. You think, "Well, if I would have acted differently, then he would have acted differently. So if I just change my behavior, then he will change his behavior and then everything will be great". This is dangerous thinking, and it kept me in the cycle of break-ups and make-ups for a long time. Keep telling yourself that his drinking is 1000% not your fault, that it was unacceptable, and that nothing you did or didn't do would change this. Make it your motto. Drill it into your brain, so that when these moments of doubt hit, you can access it quickly and stop yourself from spiraling downward.
Another thing I would just mention is that based on what you wrote about the conversation you had with your ex, he knows that he has not lost you. You are no longer “together”, but I am wrong to think that you are still emotionally invested in him, and that he knows that? It seems as if you are still preoccupying yourself with thoughts of him getting help and re-establishing the relationship. I would just caution you a bit here. I went through a similar period with my ex, where he admitted he had a problem and was going to counseling. I told him that we could talk and I would support him, but that we were not “together”. Even though we didn’t see each other (living in separate cities) we talked often. But it became evident that he was still drinking, which I couldn’t accept. So I told him he needed to be sober for a year before I would consider the relationship again, and his response was basically screw you.
I agree that it is good that he is being honest with you about where his head is at right now, but a couple things you mentioned seemed like red flags to me. One would be that he sent you a bunch of happy pictures of you two together. This seems very manipulative to me after you broke up because of the crappy way he’s treated you. The second thing would be that you sense he only feels hope now that he thinks there is hope with you. As much as we’d like believe that we and the relationship are the reason our partners should and will change and get help, what is going to happen the next time you two get into an argument? The next fight? Even if it’s not about drinking. If you are the only reason he’s changing, then when he’s angry with you, or he feels like you’ve hurt him, is he going to go right back to the bottle? This was pretty much the last year of my relationship. We had a lot of heart-to-hearts, tears, I love you’s, and some improvement followed by more heartbreak. In my opinion, his choices regarding alcohol must be intrinsically motivated. He has to realize that his behavior needs to change because he thinks it’s unacceptable, not because you think it’s unacceptable.
I really am not trying to sound negative here. I can only speak from my experience. I don’t know your ex and he may very well be motived to change. He could seek out help, do the work, and you two could get back together and have a wonderful relationship. Just suggesting that you make protecting your mental, emotional, and physical health your top priority right now and really look for concrete actions over time before moving in your ex’s direction again.
I can tell by what you’ve written that you are an extremely compassionate person. It also sounds like you’re getting out and doing things, seeing friends, etc, which is awesome! Give yourself a lot of credit for that. You are taking very healthy action to cope with this breakup. Be very proud of yourself, it takes a lot of emotional maturity, and keep doing things that will build your own confidence and feelings of self-worth.
Happy to hear that you are recognizing that his behavior around alcohol is what led to the demise of the relationship because you, rightfully so, realized that this was not something you can tolerate in a partner. As trailmix said, your reactions to his drinking were to protect yourself. You are still very fresh from this breakup. If you are like me, your brain will continue to try to find fault in something you did to help explain the end of the relationship. You will have these moments of extreme clarity where you feel like you did the absolute right thing and you had no other option to protect yourself, but you will also have these moments of doubt where you think you were a terrible person, you made the drinking worse, you'll never find anyone else, and you made a huge mistake, etc. I think this happens because you still want the relationship to work. You think, "Well, if I would have acted differently, then he would have acted differently. So if I just change my behavior, then he will change his behavior and then everything will be great". This is dangerous thinking, and it kept me in the cycle of break-ups and make-ups for a long time. Keep telling yourself that his drinking is 1000% not your fault, that it was unacceptable, and that nothing you did or didn't do would change this. Make it your motto. Drill it into your brain, so that when these moments of doubt hit, you can access it quickly and stop yourself from spiraling downward.
Another thing I would just mention is that based on what you wrote about the conversation you had with your ex, he knows that he has not lost you. You are no longer “together”, but I am wrong to think that you are still emotionally invested in him, and that he knows that? It seems as if you are still preoccupying yourself with thoughts of him getting help and re-establishing the relationship. I would just caution you a bit here. I went through a similar period with my ex, where he admitted he had a problem and was going to counseling. I told him that we could talk and I would support him, but that we were not “together”. Even though we didn’t see each other (living in separate cities) we talked often. But it became evident that he was still drinking, which I couldn’t accept. So I told him he needed to be sober for a year before I would consider the relationship again, and his response was basically screw you.
I agree that it is good that he is being honest with you about where his head is at right now, but a couple things you mentioned seemed like red flags to me. One would be that he sent you a bunch of happy pictures of you two together. This seems very manipulative to me after you broke up because of the crappy way he’s treated you. The second thing would be that you sense he only feels hope now that he thinks there is hope with you. As much as we’d like believe that we and the relationship are the reason our partners should and will change and get help, what is going to happen the next time you two get into an argument? The next fight? Even if it’s not about drinking. If you are the only reason he’s changing, then when he’s angry with you, or he feels like you’ve hurt him, is he going to go right back to the bottle? This was pretty much the last year of my relationship. We had a lot of heart-to-hearts, tears, I love you’s, and some improvement followed by more heartbreak. In my opinion, his choices regarding alcohol must be intrinsically motivated. He has to realize that his behavior needs to change because he thinks it’s unacceptable, not because you think it’s unacceptable.
I really am not trying to sound negative here. I can only speak from my experience. I don’t know your ex and he may very well be motived to change. He could seek out help, do the work, and you two could get back together and have a wonderful relationship. Just suggesting that you make protecting your mental, emotional, and physical health your top priority right now and really look for concrete actions over time before moving in your ex’s direction again.
I can tell by what you’ve written that you are an extremely compassionate person. It also sounds like you’re getting out and doing things, seeing friends, etc, which is awesome! Give yourself a lot of credit for that. You are taking very healthy action to cope with this breakup. Be very proud of yourself, it takes a lot of emotional maturity, and keep doing things that will build your own confidence and feelings of self-worth.
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Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 330
Originally Posted by 2018LizAnon
Hi Surfbee,
Happy to hear that you are recognizing that his behavior around alcohol is what led to the demise of the relationship because you, rightfully so, realized that this was not something you can tolerate in a partner. As trailmix said, your reactions to his drinking were to protect yourself.
Happy to hear that you are recognizing that his behavior around alcohol is what led to the demise of the relationship because you, rightfully so, realized that this was not something you can tolerate in a partner. As trailmix said, your reactions to his drinking were to protect yourself.
https://www.habitsforwellbeing.com/t...lation-system/
She told me that because he's an alcoholic, my threat system was triggered on a daily basis... and my distress was caused by imbalance of each of the systems and the underdevelopment of the soothing system...
This was an AHA ! moment...! I realised that his threat system was also triggered (aka the threat of not seeing his kids, and my moods in relation to that constant battle) and so he would 'soothe' himself with drinking. And drinking would then wreak havoc with his moods... (and he wouldn't see how that impacted me!) and so my threat system is triggered again ... and again...I'd say things I wish I didn't...I'd become insecure, angry of the way his ex had this power over him ! .... he'd try to reassure me throughout... but he'd always drink....then sometimes I tried to suppress my worries and would turn to him for 'soothing' and comfort. Or I would escape into work - my other soothing system - and he'd feel neglected because of that .... and his threat system would get triggered because he'd feel more isolated .... and the cycle repeats...
It's so sad... and so bloody simple when you look at the cycle like this!
I wish he could see and learn. But I know I need to just let go.... he's got a therapist now (an NHS council one - not sure how good) but glad he's seeing someone at least.
Originally Posted by 2018LizAnon
You are still very fresh from this breakup. If you are like me, your brain will continue to try to find fault in something you did to help explain the end of the relationship. You will have these moments of extreme clarity where you feel like you did the absolute right thing and you had no other option to protect yourself, but you will also have these moments of doubt where you think you were a terrible person, you made the drinking worse, you'll never find anyone else, and you made a huge mistake, etc. I think this happens because you still want the relationship to work. You think, "Well, if I would have acted differently, then he would have acted differently. So if I just change my behavior, then he will change his behavior and then everything will be great".
So this is where the guilt comes in.
But I remembered in this moment that it was always HIS choice to drink. I explained to him that I argued because it was stressful for me, my threat system was triggered every time I'd see him drinking and so it became a cycle. I said if the roles were reversed, how would you feel if I was drinking every night and I said mean things to you, but I didn't remember anything because I was drunk. Surely that would effect your mood ? You'd remember the things I said? And it would naturally put you in a state of anxiety and insecurity ! He listened , he absorbed. I could tell that it was a hard pill to swallow - and not sure if he can swallow it yet... but he didn't argue with me on it at least.
Originally Posted by 2018LizAnon
Keep telling yourself that his drinking is 1000% not your fault, that it was unacceptable, and that nothing you did or didn't do would change this. Make it your motto. .
Originally Posted by 2018LizAnon
Another thing I would just mention is that based on what you wrote about the conversation you had with your ex, he knows that he has not lost you. You are no longer “together”, but I am wrong to think that you are still emotionally invested in him, and that he knows that?
Originally Posted by 2018LizAnon
I would just caution you a bit here. I went through a similar period with my ex, where he admitted he had a problem and was going to counseling. I told him that we could talk and I would support him, but that we were not “together”. Even though we didn’t see each other (living in separate cities) we talked often. But it became evident that he was still drinking, which I couldn’t accept. So I told him he needed to be sober for a year before I would consider the relationship again, and his response was basically screw you.
This is why I told him the other night not to contact me anymore as it's confusing for me... I said i love him and want a healthy partnership, but not to contact me until he's ready to say "I want to be together and I want to make real steps to get better, i.e. I'm seeing an addiction therapist, I'm going to AA " - if I heard that I'd believe him 100%. He would only say something if he meant it.
Originally Posted by 2018LizAnon
I agree that it is good that he is being honest with you about where his head is at right now, but a couple things you mentioned seemed like red flags to me. One would be that he sent you a bunch of happy pictures of you two together. This seems very manipulative to me after you broke up because of the crappy way he’s treated you. .
wishing I hadn't in a way! as it felt nice to connect with him... but I know he's still drinking and numbing feelings so it was the right thing to do.
Originally Posted by 2018LizAnon
The second thing would be that you sense he only feels hope now that he thinks there is hope with you. As much as we’d like believe that we and the relationship are the reason our partners should and will change and get help, what is going to happen the next time you two get into an argument? The next fight? Even if it’s not about drinking. If you are the only reason he’s changing, then when he’s angry with you, or he feels like you’ve hurt him, is he going to go right back to the bottle?
My heartbreak here is that this all makes sense ! But I'm still the evicted party... but at least he's reached a very blatant crossroad - and he is consciously aware that he has the choice now... even if it took my heart to get broken in the process. OR he might just keep on drinking for years and years. Time will tell.
Originally Posted by 2018LizAnon
This was pretty much the last year of my relationship. We had a lot of heart-to-hearts, tears, I love you’s, and some improvement followed by more heartbreak. In my opinion, his choices regarding alcohol must be intrinsically motivated. He has to realize that his behavior needs to change because he thinks it’s unacceptable, not because you think it’s unacceptable.
Originally Posted by 2018LizAnon
I really am not trying to sound negative here. I can only speak from my experience. I don’t know your ex and he may very well be motived to change. He could seek out help, do the work, and you two could get back together and have a wonderful relationship. Just suggesting that you make protecting your mental, emotional, and physical health your top priority right now and really look for concrete actions over time before moving in your ex’s direction again.
I can tell by what you’ve written that you are an extremely compassionate person. It also sounds like you’re getting out and doing things, seeing friends, etc, which is awesome! Give yourself a lot of credit for that. You are taking very healthy action to cope with this breakup. Be very proud of yourself, it takes a lot of emotional maturity, and keep doing things that will build your own confidence and feelings of self-worth.
I can tell by what you’ve written that you are an extremely compassionate person. It also sounds like you’re getting out and doing things, seeing friends, etc, which is awesome! Give yourself a lot of credit for that. You are taking very healthy action to cope with this breakup. Be very proud of yourself, it takes a lot of emotional maturity, and keep doing things that will build your own confidence and feelings of self-worth.
Thanks again x
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p.s. (panic rant)
I should reiterate that I've given him the chance to make it up with me - on the condition that he needs deal with his alcoholism - the sadness for me is the knowing that he is not yet ready to deal with his alcoholism - and not yet ready to have me either - because to him, he still associates me with arguments and stress ! Even although I know, and on some innate level, he knows too, that it's the alcoholism / numbing of feelings that is the root cause!
This is what hurts the most ! The powerless feeling that I can't change his mind.
It sucks !
He also said that it's so easy for him to drink because he comes home from work really exhausted, and sad, so drinking is the only good thing to do. ... and yet he knows it's bad for him, What a trap he's in. HE NEEDS HELP ! But I can't do anything about it! Should I be supporting him through it ? I want to ... but I can't because my needs won't get met... i.e. I haven't heard the reassurance that he really does truly want me... right now he is too mixed up to give such reassurance. Because the fact is, he's really scared of arguing with me again. And feeling so angry. He said he's never felt so angry in his life before the last time we argued... and he doesn't want to ever feel that way again... I
I should reiterate that I've given him the chance to make it up with me - on the condition that he needs deal with his alcoholism - the sadness for me is the knowing that he is not yet ready to deal with his alcoholism - and not yet ready to have me either - because to him, he still associates me with arguments and stress ! Even although I know, and on some innate level, he knows too, that it's the alcoholism / numbing of feelings that is the root cause!
This is what hurts the most ! The powerless feeling that I can't change his mind.
It sucks !
He also said that it's so easy for him to drink because he comes home from work really exhausted, and sad, so drinking is the only good thing to do. ... and yet he knows it's bad for him, What a trap he's in. HE NEEDS HELP ! But I can't do anything about it! Should I be supporting him through it ? I want to ... but I can't because my needs won't get met... i.e. I haven't heard the reassurance that he really does truly want me... right now he is too mixed up to give such reassurance. Because the fact is, he's really scared of arguing with me again. And feeling so angry. He said he's never felt so angry in his life before the last time we argued... and he doesn't want to ever feel that way again...
I
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I want to support him but I'm too 'in need' of him wanting to support me too. This is why we are not together. Because he isn't in a position to support me. And then I feel guilt for wanting that support from him and ask myself why I need support from him? Because - if I was the Dalai Lama himself maybe I would be too freaking strong and I wouldn't need support from anyone ! So why do I need 'support' so much. What does 'support' even look like?
To break it down - I only want him to feel and say to me - "I want you, I want to do my best to support you and take care of you, and I want you to do your best for me too, lets be a team." this is all I want to hear .... I'm so sad because I'm not hearing it. Is it too much to want that?
To break it down - I only want him to feel and say to me - "I want you, I want to do my best to support you and take care of you, and I want you to do your best for me too, lets be a team." this is all I want to hear .... I'm so sad because I'm not hearing it. Is it too much to want that?
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Originally Posted by Surfbee
I want to support him but I'm too 'in need' of him wanting to support me too. This is why we are not together. Because he isn't in a position to support me. And then I feel guilt for wanting that support from him and ask myself why I need support from him? Because - if I was the Dalai Lama himself maybe I would be too freaking strong and I wouldn't need support from anyone ! So why do I need 'support' so much. What does 'support' even look like?
To break it down - I only want him to feel and say to me - "I want you, I want to do my best to support you and take care of you, and I want you to do your best for me too, lets be a team." this is all I want to hear .... I'm so sad because I'm not hearing it. Is it too much to want that?
To break it down - I only want him to feel and say to me - "I want you, I want to do my best to support you and take care of you, and I want you to do your best for me too, lets be a team." this is all I want to hear .... I'm so sad because I'm not hearing it. Is it too much to want that?
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Originally Posted by Surfbee
I want to support him but I'm too 'in need' of him wanting to support me too. This is why we are not together. Because he isn't in a position to support me. And then I feel guilt for wanting that support from him and ask myself why I need support from him? Because - if I was the Dalai Lama himself maybe I would be too freaking strong and I wouldn't need support from anyone ! So why do I need 'support' so much. What does 'support' even look like?
To break it down - I only want him to feel and say to me - "I want you, I want to do my best to support you and take care of you, and I want you to do your best for me too, lets be a team." this is all I want to hear .... I'm so sad because I'm not hearing it. Is it too much to want that?
To break it down - I only want him to feel and say to me - "I want you, I want to do my best to support you and take care of you, and I want you to do your best for me too, lets be a team." this is all I want to hear .... I'm so sad because I'm not hearing it. Is it too much to want that?
You know in reading this today I don't see a lot of revelations from him, what I do see is some quacking (or at the very least drunk reasoning) forgive me for being so blunt.
because to him, he still associates me with arguments and stress ! Even although I know, and on some innate level, he knows too, that it's the alcoholism / numbing of feelings that is the root cause!
Even the other day he said to me that he knows his drinking is a real problem but he is still convinced that he wouldn't have escaped into drinking if it weren't for the arguments we had !
He also said that it's so easy for him to drink because he comes home from work really exhausted, and sad, so drinking is the only good thing to do. ... and yet he knows it's bad for him, What a trap he's in. HE NEEDS HELP ! But I can't do anything about it! Should I be supporting him through it ? I want to ... but I can't because my needs won't get met... i.e. I haven't heard the reassurance that he really does truly want me... right now he is too mixed up to give such reassurance. Because the fact is, he's really scared of arguing with me again. And feeling so angry. He said he's never felt so angry in his life before the last time we argued... and he doesn't want to ever feel that way again...
Your support - well what have you been offering the last couple of years? Support, you were there for him, you overlooked your own needs and feelings, you probably helped drag his drunk bottom up to the apartment a time or two and drove him places and etc etc.
With zero result.
You can't help someone that doesn't want help and what I'm reading from what he has said is that he doesn't want help, he wants to drink. I could be wrong, of course.
What does 'support' even look like?
If something needs to be done, be that fixing a running toilet or a piece of board on the deck, he grabs the tools and says ok what do we need to do.
It means when the bread is running low he shows up after work with some and it means when you are run down and tired and sad he just hugs you.
His entire focus is on himself. You will notice in your conversation that you discussed what you really need from him. You also mention how you two interact. All of his comments are about him, how things affect him. Not how they hurt you.
You two have been together for a couple of years and yet:
This was an AHA ! moment...! I realised that his threat system was also triggered (aka the threat of not seeing his kids, and my moods in relation to that constant battle) and so he would 'soothe' himself with drinking. And drinking would then wreak havoc with his moods... (and he wouldn't see how that impacted me!)
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Originally Posted by Surfbee
. YES ! Even the other day he said to me that he knows his drinking is a real problem but he is still convinced that he wouldn't have escaped into drinking if it weren't for the arguments we had !
Ok Surfbee, this is abuse. So to sum up this situation: he drinks inappropriately and treats you poorly. You, completely reasonably, are upset about this (because who wouldn't be?), and you confront him about it which leads to an argument. Then, because he's angry for being called out on his unacceptable behavior and because you stood up for yourself and your own boundaries, he goes off to drink more, which leads him to treat you poorly. Then he tells you that it is your fault that he drinks because of the arguments. This is just completely insane on so many levels and is an absolute carbon copy of the type of thing that would happen between my ex and I. You probably don't want to hear it, and you probably won't believe it, and you probably will be upset that I'm writing this right now, but he was abusing you. Can't say if this is his "true" personality or if it's the alcoholism, but it is what it is right now.
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Look at the bullet points in this article. Every one of them applies to my relationship with my ex and I’m guessing they’ll ring true for you too.
https://pro.psychcentral.com/recover...rauma-bonding/
In essence it’s a psychological trick. You see him do some very sweet, caring things and you think, “this is who he truly is”. And he’s probably mostly like that at the beginning of the relationship. And then you see some terrible things and you think, “well that’s not really who is, that deep down he’s a good person, that that was a fluke, that it wasn’t really that bad, etc.” And you rationalize. And then the next time he does something nice, you say, “see, I was right, he is a wonderful partner.” And you gradually accept more and more bull**** because you’re waiting for that moment, however small, that he shows you a bit of love. In the meantime, he directly or indirectly blames you or really anything except himself for his bad behavior, which drives feelings of guilt, and makes you question your own feelings. And before you know it, you have no idea what is up and what is down, but your own health is rapidly deteriorating.
I’m sorry that you are going through this. I know how agonizing it is. I know the feeling of desperation, like you are going to die because you lost the your “soulmate”, the obsessive thoughts, the guilt. It is not your fault. I think if you go no contact for a few months you’ll begin to see how none of this was your fault and that he has many, many issues that would need to be addressed before this could ever be a healthy relationship.
https://pro.psychcentral.com/recover...rauma-bonding/
In essence it’s a psychological trick. You see him do some very sweet, caring things and you think, “this is who he truly is”. And he’s probably mostly like that at the beginning of the relationship. And then you see some terrible things and you think, “well that’s not really who is, that deep down he’s a good person, that that was a fluke, that it wasn’t really that bad, etc.” And you rationalize. And then the next time he does something nice, you say, “see, I was right, he is a wonderful partner.” And you gradually accept more and more bull**** because you’re waiting for that moment, however small, that he shows you a bit of love. In the meantime, he directly or indirectly blames you or really anything except himself for his bad behavior, which drives feelings of guilt, and makes you question your own feelings. And before you know it, you have no idea what is up and what is down, but your own health is rapidly deteriorating.
I’m sorry that you are going through this. I know how agonizing it is. I know the feeling of desperation, like you are going to die because you lost the your “soulmate”, the obsessive thoughts, the guilt. It is not your fault. I think if you go no contact for a few months you’ll begin to see how none of this was your fault and that he has many, many issues that would need to be addressed before this could ever be a healthy relationship.
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Originally Posted by Surfbee
He also said that it's so easy for him to drink because he comes home from work really exhausted, and sad, so drinking is the only good thing to do. ... and yet he knows it's bad for him, What a trap he's in. HE NEEDS HELP ! But I can't do anything about it! Should I be supporting him through it ? I want to ... but I can't because my needs won't get met... i.e. I haven't heard the reassurance that he really does truly want me... right now he is too mixed up to give such reassurance. Because the fact is, he's really scared of arguing with me again. And feeling so angry. He said he's never felt so angry in his life before the last time we argued... and he doesn't want to ever feel that way again... I
II don't mean to sound harsh or too blunt either, I felt exactly like you do a few months back, but think about why you are so adamant about supporting him, when he is not supporting you at all, and in fact, is actually hurting you and blaming you for it.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
You know in reading this today I don't see a lot of revelations from him, what I do see is some quacking (or at the very least drunk reasoning) forgive me for being so blunt.
Originally Posted by trailmix
This right here. You two argue, he drinks to numb it. Whose "fault" is that? Unless you duct taped him to the chair and poured vodka down his throat you can't take credit for causing him to drink.
Originally Posted by trailmix
Instead of looking at the cause he decides to separate himself from what makes him angry/frustrated etc. I'm not saying he is not being truthful, from HIS perspective this probably all makes sense. In fact all of this makes sense to HIM.
Originally Posted by trailmix
It looks like when you walk in to the room he looks up at you instead of at his beer. Asks you how your day went and actually listens when you describe it, gives some input.
If something needs to be done, be that fixing a running toilet or a piece of board on the deck, he grabs the tools and says ok what do we need to do.
It means when the bread is running low he shows up after work with some and it means when you are run down and tired and sad he just hugs you.
If something needs to be done, be that fixing a running toilet or a piece of board on the deck, he grabs the tools and says ok what do we need to do.
It means when the bread is running low he shows up after work with some and it means when you are run down and tired and sad he just hugs you.
He told me that his dad drank all his money away, didn't fix anything around the house...just completely let himself go and lived in the attic of their home... His mum eventually divoced him and then a couple of years later his dad hung himself... he carries a lot of shame about his father... shame, embarrassment, anger, sadness. This to me is the root cause of his need to numb out his feelings.
So in terms of what my ex does day to day, he is the opposite of his dad in ways. He makes and saves money. He's very on it when it comes to practical tasks around the house... he helps everyone in the family. But he is a drinker just like his dad... which brings him even more shame.
Originally Posted by trailmix
His entire focus is on himself. You will notice in your conversation that you discussed what you really need from him. You also mention how you two interact. All of his comments are about him, how things affect him. Not how they hurt you.
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Originally Posted by 2018LizAnon
Ok Surfbee, this is abuse. So to sum up this situation: he drinks inappropriately and treats you poorly. You, completely reasonably, are upset about this (because who wouldn't be?), and you confront him about it which leads to an argument. Then, because he's angry for being called out on his unacceptable behavior and because you stood up for yourself and your own boundaries, he goes off to drink more, which leads him to treat you poorly. Then he tells you that it is your fault that he drinks because of the arguments. This is just completely insane on so many levels and is an absolute carbon copy of the type of thing that would happen between my ex and I. You probably don't want to hear it, and you probably won't believe it, and you probably will be upset that I'm writing this right now, but he was abusing you. Can't say if this is his "true" personality or if it's the alcoholism, but it is what it is right now.
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Originally Posted by 2018LizAnon
Look at the bullet points in this article. Every one of them applies to my relationship with my ex and I’m guessing they’ll ring true for you too.
https://pro.psychcentral.com/recover...rauma-bonding/
In essence it’s a psychological trick. You see him do some very sweet, caring things and you think, “this is who he truly is”. And he’s probably mostly like that at the beginning of the relationship. And then you see some terrible things and you think, “well that’s not really who is, that deep down he’s a good person, that that was a fluke, that it wasn’t really that bad, etc.” And you rationalize. And then the next time he does something nice, you say, “see, I was right, he is a wonderful partner.” And you gradually accept more and more bull**** because you’re waiting for that moment, however small, that he shows you a bit of love. In the meantime, he directly or indirectly blames you or really anything except himself for his bad behavior, which drives feelings of guilt, and makes you question your own feelings. And before you know it, you have no idea what is up and what is down, but your own health is rapidly deteriorating.
I’m sorry that you are going through this. I know how agonizing it is. I know the feeling of desperation, like you are going to die because you lost the your “soulmate”, the obsessive thoughts, the guilt. It is not your fault. I think if you go no contact for a few months you’ll begin to see how none of this was your fault and that he has many, many issues that would need to be addressed before this could ever be a healthy relationship.
https://pro.psychcentral.com/recover...rauma-bonding/
In essence it’s a psychological trick. You see him do some very sweet, caring things and you think, “this is who he truly is”. And he’s probably mostly like that at the beginning of the relationship. And then you see some terrible things and you think, “well that’s not really who is, that deep down he’s a good person, that that was a fluke, that it wasn’t really that bad, etc.” And you rationalize. And then the next time he does something nice, you say, “see, I was right, he is a wonderful partner.” And you gradually accept more and more bull**** because you’re waiting for that moment, however small, that he shows you a bit of love. In the meantime, he directly or indirectly blames you or really anything except himself for his bad behavior, which drives feelings of guilt, and makes you question your own feelings. And before you know it, you have no idea what is up and what is down, but your own health is rapidly deteriorating.
I’m sorry that you are going through this. I know how agonizing it is. I know the feeling of desperation, like you are going to die because you lost the your “soulmate”, the obsessive thoughts, the guilt. It is not your fault. I think if you go no contact for a few months you’ll begin to see how none of this was your fault and that he has many, many issues that would need to be addressed before this could ever be a healthy relationship.
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Originally Posted by Surfbee
He gets these eureka moments and he sees what I see... then his mind loops back to blaming... then he'll yoyo back to acknowleging that it's not my fault... Maybe his brain chemistry is messed up, or it's just the inner alchi demon finding every excuse under the sun to excuse his drinking ? ! Either way - it's not good for me to be around !
But he started to get more nasty when we lived together: blaming me and our arguments, saying I was controlling, that I'd never be able to find anyone that could meet my expectations, that I had no empathy. He started to cut down my family (you're family is fake), my friends (you're friends are boring to me), my work (your experiments never work, you're never going to finish your project), etc. When I told him that what he said and did was hurting me, he told me, "well, now you know how I feel". Really the only thing I criticized was his drinking and his behavior when he was drinking. But I felt so guilty. My self-esteem was so low, it took me another basically another 1.5 years to leave.
My point in telling you this is that, if your ex doesn’t get sober and some major counseling, that alcoholic voice will just get stronger and stronger to the point where there really isn’t any yoyo-ing anymore, he’ll just be consumed by his need to drink, and you will be a casualty of that selfishness and self-destruction. It probably isn’t his “true” personality, but unfortunately it is what he is/ is becoming. Hopefully he can realize this soon and get the help he needs.
I think you’re doing great! You seem to already grasp what’s really going on here, even though it is a sad pill to swallow. Be really kind to yourself in the next few weeks/months and know that you're going to be really sad at times, but it gets much, much better!
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I’m just jumping in here blind, really quickly, to say that when I got lost in the trap of wishing that I was better for him, it was a manifestation of my desire to control him through my actions. If I had been better, he wouldn’t drink. But not only is that absolutely untrue, it was just another way I thought that I could have any power over him and his will to drink. The other side of the spectrum is pouring out bottles and policing him, of which I did plenty of that too. When I stared wondering what I could do for MY OWN happiness, everything changed. It took a while to get used to that “selfishness”... but ultimately, I am the only one I can control with my actions. So instead of wasting time trying to figure out how I can get him to stop drinking (“maybe if he felt enough love? Maybe if I supported him more?”) I started asking a different question, “how can I support myself and my daughter better?”. And that changed everything.
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