Help with the “why”

Old 08-29-2018, 05:50 PM
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Help with the “why”



Hi Everyone,

So you’re either going to scream or laugh when you read this; I’m personally banging my head.

I cannot get past the “why” and I am really, really stuck here. Why did he start getting drunk every day? Why was he so abusive? Why couldn’t he get help before things ended the way they did? My therapist and I had a discussion today about this and she told me just to see it as black and white; I can’t do it. I have tried, but I can’t do it. And this is holding me back.

My brain can’t comprehend that one person would do the things that he did without some drastic reason that compelled him or her to behave this way. It’s just completely outrageous. I would feel better if he would give a rational explanation—although I don’t believe him capable of rational thought, much less a rational explanation.

My wish list from this mess would be (1) that he would apologize for his behavior toward me, and (2) he would tell me why he did all of these things to me, and that explanation would be more than just “I was drunk.” Note: I said this was a wish list and I realize I will never get my wish for the questions, much less getting him to admit that he has a problem.

I’m watching him bounce around on the rocks at that place called bottom and he is the only one who seems not to notice where he is. This is still so hard for me. I’m angry at how he treated me and because of the drinking, and when I hear that he’s having difficulty and falling further down the black hole, my heart still aches a little. Today, I talked to someone who saw him a few days ago and said they thought he was sleeping in his car and he looked rough. All I can do is explain that I’m no longer his handler and I have no idea where he is living or who he is living with now.

Maybe if he told me “why” I could understand better and rationalize this so that, ultimately I would feel better? See...I just need that why.
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Old 08-29-2018, 05:58 PM
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You are trying to find a logical reason for something that is illogical. He did all those things because he is an alcoholic. Alcohol affects the brain. Alcoholics don't think the same way non-alcoholics do. Even if they are not drinking at the time, their brain still does not function like that of a non-drinker.

It is doubtful you will ever get a satisfactory answer from him as to why he did the things he did. You will drive yourself crazy if you keep trying to get one.

You and his friends and everyone else may think he is hitting rock bottom, but you don't know that. There is another bottom under the one he is bouncing around on now...and another one after that. He hasn't hit bottom until he makes the decision that he cannot stand one more day living as he has been.
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Old 08-29-2018, 06:10 PM
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My relationship to an abusive "recovering" (he just didn't drink anymore but didn't really work on himself either) alcoholic ended just a few months ago. And even though he was no longer drinking, his behaviour seemed so irrational, over the top, it never made sense. In the beginning he came up with excuses, then he stopped giving any explanations and just blamed me for all his actions or denied them.
I also felt like I needed to know why he behaved the way he did in order to close this chapter of my life. I tried to find answers with my therapist who suspected him to have some borderline tendencies. It never really added up though. On this forum the book "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft was recommended to me. It tries to give answers to the many why's and to explain the men's thinking behind their actions. For me it did exactly that and I found it helpful in many other ways. I always thought of my ex as an unique unsolvable puzzle. After having read that book that changed completely. His behaviours are neither as unique, nor as random nor as inexplicable as I thought.

I don't know much about your relationship but if your ex was abusive and you wonder why he treated you that way, maybe the book can be helpful to you too.
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Old 08-29-2018, 08:01 PM
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Hello Leelee,

Sometimes when I obsess over why someone does what they do, the energy is best spent untangling why I responded the way I did or how I stayed too long in a situation or relationship.

Take care.
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Old 08-29-2018, 08:52 PM
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I sympathize with you. I also know you can make yourself miserable trying to figure out the "whys" of behavior which is literally crazy, or trying to apply Reasonable Person Standard to an alcoholic. If your husband is bouncing around near rock bottom, he may be very well doing what he's doing because his brain is damaged and he can no longer think like a normal person. Addicts often lack the capacity to understand the consequences of their behavior or to appreciate the implications of what they are doing. It's like dealing with a two-year-old who never grows up.
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Old 08-29-2018, 09:02 PM
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Ah Leelee, there is no rational answer from someone not capable of being rational.

In my opinion addiction is (mostly) a mental illness. I say "mostly" because there are lots of addicts, some right here in this forum who achieve long-term healing and sobriety. So it's possible.

He made, and makes terrible decisions because he's an addict. That's what they do. Alcohol has such a grip on him that living in a car is more acceptable than giving up booze. For now. It could change.

As to why he treated you badly when drunk: I'm sure you know that is very common with drunks. Abusing alcohol makes most people aggressive and nasty. It's the nature of the drug. Of course it doesn't excuse the horrible behavior.

Try to let go of needing a rational answer. God bless.
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Old 08-29-2018, 09:52 PM
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You will let it go when you are ready. To get there, keep educating yourself on alcoholism, and reading here. So many people see themselves in other posts here on SR, and see the things that helped those people. Things start to make sense to you. Then the puzzle pieces start fitting together.

What you said here kind of answers your own question.....although I don’t believe him capable of rational thought, much less a rational explanation.

Exactly, he's not rational. He's not even capable of giving you an answer. At the very, very least, you deserve an answer and heart felt -on-his-knees apologies. You didn't deserve this, you didn't want it, and its not fair. But you might never get the answer you need.

My husband is 7 months sober and he still is foggy headed sometimes, and gets confused and flustered often. I've asked him so many times....why did you do ___ or ___? What were you thinking when you said ___? 90% of the time he said "I don't know." And he really doesn't know.

Everything is foggy and jumbled. He has also told me he saw, in the background, what he was doing to his family. But the main thing he saw was the time of day he could start drinking, how many beers he had left, and when he needed to get more so he wouldn't run out.

So you can kind of see how their brains are working. Or not working. Its like they are there, but taken over by something else. There is something Dandylion says, that I repeat to myself, until the day I believe it. I don't believe it yet, I'm still too mad at the alcoholic selfishness! But she says....They arent drinking AT you. They are just drinking. That's what alcoholics do.
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Old 08-29-2018, 11:07 PM
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The magic why! Your completely entitled to be stuck on that. I was for most of this summer. It's completely rational to want a rational explanation. Still have moments of it. In end had to release the why for me, and work on detaching, not obsessing. No control over it. Completely understand where your at.
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Old 08-29-2018, 11:58 PM
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LeeLee…..if you would really like to know what goes on inside of an alcoholic's brain....as much as the researchers currently understand...you might appreciate reading about it in the following book--"The Addicted Brain"....by Michael Kuhar….It discusses the latest research findings.....and it does correlate the physiology of the brain to some of the actual behaviors....

this might help you to depersonalize what has happened, to some extent....that his goal probably was not to deliberately hurt you, at the time (although it did!)….and, it might answer some of your Whys.....

Here is the sticky wicket, though---even with the answer to the why's...you may not feel entirely better....because you still have to process the hurt and confusion and pain...to complete the grieving process and heal enough for you to go forward and commit this part of your life to "history" status.....
right now, I think you are still up to your knees in the aftermath and grieving...and processing....

so many times, on this forum, when a relationship breaks up...people will, in their agony, ask "Why, Why?"....and I have given long, detailed explanations why this happens...and, the end result is that the person still says...."but, it still hurts!".....lol...
Bottom line, I think, is that people just want to pain to go away.....that is why most people come here, in the first place...they just want the pain to go away....

having said all of this...I do recommend that you read the book....because it is fascinating...what happens in the brain as a result of the neurotransmitters....
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Old 08-30-2018, 03:16 AM
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Hi Leelee,

I think I understand that...the need to understand what in the heck happened. I'm "fortunate" in a way in that I have never dated or been married to someone who was active in their addiction. My sister is an alcoholic and powder cocaine addict who is sober--in recovery--whatever way you would like to describe it.

She and I were raised in the same household by the same set of parents. She became an addict, I did not.

Did our parents treat us differently growing up? Maybe...I couldn't answer that, but when we compare notes, there were some differences.

To me, addiction is a brain chemistry disease...a mental illness of sorts. Why her and not me? I'll never be able to answer that.

Why does she have grey eyes and I have blue? Why is she 2 inches taller than I? Why does she like guacamole and I can't stand it (please don't hold it against me )? Nature, nurture, all of the above, in my opinion.

Wishing you peace!
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Old 08-30-2018, 04:00 AM
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Leelee, you'll become less obsessed over time as long as you don't feed it. I've been through a traumatic break up (with a non alcoholic) and it did take a while. Then one day I realised I felt much better.

I do know how obsessive thoughts undermine your happiness. If they go on too long, talk to your therapist about specialised treatment.
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Old 08-30-2018, 05:19 AM
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I guess maybe the answer is, why not?

I cannot get past the “why” and I am really, really stuck here. Why did he start getting drunk every day? Why was he so abusive? Why couldn’t he get help before things ended the way they did?
Alcoholism is a force, a drive to drink a call from the brain. Think of it like being hungry. If you are truly hungry think about how hard that is to deny. Don't eat for today and see how you are around 11 tonight. Chances are you won't be thinking about anything other than the eggs and toast in the kitchen, how good it is, how much better you would feel if you ate it. If you ate it you wouldn't have to be thinking about it anymore, your body would just be happy you took care of that.

Well, that's probably something akin to the desire for alcohol. That's why he drinks, nothing to do with you at all. You left, you have zero contact with him and still he drinks.

Now of course you have to eat and he doesn't HAVE to drink, he could go to AA or some other place for help - or he could just drink a beer. The difference with alcohol is, of course, it serves other purposes, it blocks out thoughts that are unwanted, feelings that can't be dealt with.

That is a huge force. Why couldn't he get help and have a relationship with you? Well he does not have his rage or drinking under control is the answer to that. You see it as a choice, I doubt he sees it as a choice at all. Also keep in mind that if he went out today and got sober and got help it would be years before he is in any kind of mental space to have a relationship. None of the healing comes overnight and you don't even actually know him as a "sober" person.

My brain can’t comprehend that one person would do the things that he did without some drastic reason that compelled him or her to behave this way. It’s just completely outrageous. I would feel better if he would give a rational explanation—although I don’t believe him capable of rational thought, much less a rational explanation.
From what you have written here you seem to be taking this all personally. So I think what you are really asking is why did he do this to you? What did you do to deserve this?

Well actually, that's probably where your thinking is in a loop. It's not actually about you at all.

Do you believe that when he was sitting in the dark, watching TV, about to have his next outburst that this had anything to do with you? Rage is an inside thing, not an external thing, it's not rational. Have you ever felt rage? If not maybe that concept is not easy to grasp.

Do you think when that force is telling him to drink that you crossed in to the equation? How long could you go without eating for him?
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Old 08-30-2018, 07:04 AM
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I cannot get past the “why” and I am really, really stuck here. Why did he start getting drunk every day? Why was he so abusive? Why couldn’t he get help before things ended the way they did? My therapist and I had a discussion today about this and she told me just to see it as black and white; I can’t do it. I have tried, but I can’t do it. And this is holding me back.
He started getting drunk every day because he is an alcoholic and alcoholics tolerance level for alcohol grows and he needs more and more in order to get high………..none of that has anything at all to do with you as a person.

Why was he so abusive? Because alcoholics do not think with logic, they lack impulse control and don’t know how to properly address the emotions they feel………….none of that has anything at all do with you as a person.

Why he couldn’t seek help before things ended the way they did because he is an alcoholic and alcoholics do not see themselves in the same light as others do. They often do not feel they have a problem that needs addressing they instead attempt to numb any feelings they have with the booze…………..none of that has anything at all do with you as a person.

QTIP

Quite

Taking

It

Personally

He didn’t drink AT YOU or BECAUSE OF YOU, he simply drank because that’s what alcoholics do.

I found that it was much easier to focus and get stuck on why he did what he did rather than face the bigger question of why I did what I did. Why did I stay so long taking the verbal abuse and why I remained in such a toxic environment for so long. Once I stopped taking it personally I was able to move forward and face my own demons.
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Old 08-30-2018, 07:44 AM
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I want to 2nd what dandy suggested - reading about it from the other side of the fence.

I read all KINDS of books & blogs & forums from the addict's POV. It really helped me to understand how, very often, even THEY don't know exactly why either. That it tortures them as well.

I'm not saying this allowed me to rush into acceptance but it did help me see how it was possible. It helped de-personalize my experiences & focus on the larger picture & future steps. It helped me to let go of asking these kinds of questions which stopped activating a lot of the negative thought patterns over & over again.

I mean, if someone caught in the spiral of themselves can't figure it out in any way & even after a period of recovery can't really explain "why" - I'd have to be God to have the all those answers myself, wouldn't I? For me - this was freedom from the weight of the albatross - I could see the choice I had in taking it off my neck & putting it down.
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Old 08-30-2018, 09:48 AM
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One other thing. If someone is physically abusive, that's a separate issue from alcoholism.
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Old 08-30-2018, 10:56 AM
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((((trailmix))))

Thank you very much for these posts today.

With letting go of the "why" and moving on with life, answers simply pop up from time to time. In good timing when I really need them and didn't know I did. I love how easily this happens. Gentle support as I move forward in good, new directions.

Leelee, thank you for being here and posting this thread. Great conversations here.
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Old 08-30-2018, 11:16 AM
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I was more inclined to scream the question why! when I got caught up in this with my husband. I really don't think I could have found inner peace if I had not looked for the answer, and finally come to accept a conclusion which I think is true.

One of the first things I did was look for a therapist who specialized in addiction medicine to help me understand, and then with those answers I began to sort out my feelings and my next steps.

There is a lot of medical and psychological information online about Alcohol Use Disorder: Why it happens, Why people cant stop, Why they are in denial, and Why wont they seek treatment.

There are so many studies about the Why' part also. Genetics, environment, dysfunction in the family, trauma, poor coping, peer pressure. low self esteem, depression, anxiety.

My husbands 'WHY he 'started ' fits into the above list.

My husband is a binge type user.. I remember watching him and thinking ok, when is he going to stop. This is not normal for him and any day now he is going to realize it and stop.

The Why he couldn't stop, and why he needed help stopping - were important to me also. Looking up the concept of chronic relapsing brain disease might help you. It will explain how changes in the brain occur and put a person into a state of denial.

My sweet husband became abusive when he was using both drugs and alcohol. It was nothing that I did, nothing that I deserved.

Like another poster shared - now that my husband has stopped drinking and using drugs, and has been in therapy... he has foggy memories of things he did while under the influence. He describes it as being able to think, but not in a rational way. He said he saw situations differently, processed things in a different way, missed many parts of things. His ability to reason was poor. He doesn't even remember many things. Basically his brain was not functioning properly at that time. In our family sessions as I told him about things that happened, and how I was affected. Many things he did not realize or he swears he saw it differently at the time.

He has accepted the fact that he was abusive towards me. And has apologized and I feel that he is sincerely sorry. But his recollection is still not really there.

I guess what Im saying is.. in terms of your getting an apology one day, if this man begins to make changes and recover. He may not remember everything in a detailed way. The apology may be more high level if it comes from just his recollection.

I had to edit this post to also note. Many people told me that abuse is not part of addiction. Its a whole different issue. I feel that they can be linked, as was the case with my own husband. BUT NOT ALWAYS. Abuse can be a whole other issue that is simply masked by the use of alcohol or drugs. So please keep this in mind. There is an old saying I think from AA - you can sober up a horse thief, but you will still have a horse thief. Who a person is at the core is a very complex issue.

I wish you peace in all of this. Inner peace, acceptance - understanding of the whys'






Originally Posted by Leelee168 View Post


Hi Everyone,

So you’re either going to scream or laugh when you read this; I’m personally banging my head.

I cannot get past the “why” and I am really, really stuck here. Why did he start getting drunk every day? Why was he so abusive? Why couldn’t he get help before things ended the way they did? My therapist and I had a discussion today about this and she told me just to see it as black and white; I can’t do it. I have tried, but I can’t do it. And this is holding me back.

My brain can’t comprehend that one person would do the things that he did without some drastic reason that compelled him or her to behave this way. It’s just completely outrageous. I would feel better if he would give a rational explanation—although I don’t believe him capable of rational thought, much less a rational explanation.

My wish list from this mess would be (1) that he would apologize for his behavior toward me, and (2) he would tell me why he did all of these things to me, and that explanation would be more than just “I was drunk.” Note: I said this was a wish list and I realize I will never get my wish for the questions, much less getting him to admit that he has a problem.

I’m watching him bounce around on the rocks at that place called bottom and he is the only one who seems not to notice where he is. This is still so hard for me. I’m angry at how he treated me and because of the drinking, and when I hear that he’s having difficulty and falling further down the black hole, my heart still aches a little. Today, I talked to someone who saw him a few days ago and said they thought he was sleeping in his car and he looked rough. All I can do is explain that I’m no longer his handler and I have no idea where he is living or who he is living with now.

Maybe if he told me “why” I could understand better and rationalize this so that, ultimately I would feel better? See...I just need that why.
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Old 08-30-2018, 12:09 PM
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Leelee,

What answer are you actually looking for from him?

What explanation would satisfy your curiosity?
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Old 08-30-2018, 12:33 PM
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You'll know you are progressing further when you don't need the why. Also, the answer to all of your questions is the same answer-- his natural proclivities plus alcoholism. Alcohol frees it all-- they say and do things that looked at through sobriety and logic are asinine, insane, inane, self-destructive, cruel and moronic, and they do it consistently and repeatedly.

Never, ever, ever, ever try to make sense of the things alcoholics say and do. Each and every one of those things makes absolute sense when an alcoholic without long-term sobriety is involved-- THAT'S WHAT THEY DO AND SAY.

Now, when sober people say and do the same **** then it is completely different. That's when I think they are just stupid, crazy, or both (me included).

Good luck finding your way to not needing to know why. I truly wish you the best.

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Old 08-30-2018, 12:43 PM
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This is such a crazy (the world of addiction) to comprehend and I'm so impressed with those that can bring words and counsel to our painful experiences.

to wonder why he did this or that, would hopeful bring an understanding so we can live with it, even if we don't agree with the answer. My question was similar "how could he do that to me", as someone that was suppose to love me.

We (or certainly I) personalized the behavior. Making it very hard to understand. We want to reach out to them for understanding, healing or validation, but they can't be there for us.

Dandylion told me early on:
"He is blaming you.
It is like hitting someone with a big stick....and then blaming the victim, for it....To me, that is like assaulting the victim twice...once with the stick, and, again when they blame the victim for it....
Of course that is "crazymaking" for the victim of the assaults....

The sticky wicket here, I think, is that, when such an assault comes from someone that we have loved...it is very confusing...because we are looking to the one who hurt us to be the one who heals us.....
The human mind can't really wrap their mind around that".

We stand between them and the oxygen they need to breathe and they'll do anything to keep that in place.

There is nothing that you did to warrant any of this behavior toward you. There is nothing you could have done to justify any of that behavior. There is no answer to why that makes it ok.

All my best to you. Wishing peace for you

tic
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