FindingAmy

Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. What do you need to take care of you in this moment? What would be the loving thing for you? And in fact it IS just an email with someone else's perspective. And you don't need to agree to it. Attaching an emotion onto it is a choice. We always have a choice. So often we like to think we don't, but we always do. Step back, breathe, take a day to meditate on it and give it some space to lose some of it's energy and hold on you. Remember the author of that email has their own story. You can't change that recording they've got playing in their head of who you are, what they think you've done, etc. You can only take care of you.

"I've received your email, I suggest you hire a professional to help you with this matter". Or "I need some time to sit with this and I'll get back to you when I am ready, thank you for understanding". Always check in with what you need. And if it's triggering something in you look at what that is. Look within. Nobody can hurt you or make you feel a certain way unless you let them. You have the power. It is within you. Nobody can take that away. Own your power.

Pathwaytofree

Yes!! I was just speaking with my sponsor recently about boundaries. I have a bad habit of setting a boundary, but I don't enforce the boundary. I cannot wait to bring this up in therapy. I remember doing this exact thing as a small child.

My cousin even called me out on it decades ago, but I couldn't tell him that the reason I didn't enforce my boundaries and always gave in, was because my mother was a raging, terrorizing, evil, abusive woman who I could feel from a young age would snap one day and kill me. But that's another topic for another time.

I have a backbone. I have inner strength. I just used to test the waters to see when it was safe to use. Now that I am an adult, I can learn how to not only set boundaries, but how to follow through and enforce them, instead of viewing people as if they're my mother. What a great topic!! I used to always complain that the AA big book did not have a topic about boundaries. I'm beginning to see that's more of an Alanon/ACOA thing. I should've spent more time reading that literature instead of being a big book thumper.

I have never heard it said like this before. I need to reread this and internalize it. My codependent behavior gets me easily absorbed into my family's toxic behavior. That's why it effected me so much. I love your point about not attaching an emotion to it. It's just an email. It's just her words. Who cares.

This stopped me in my tracks. Seriously. I wonder how many nervous breakdowns I've had because of this. It used to seriously drive me crazy how my sister's and other family member's perceptions, opinions, facts, about me were so incredibly OFF. It wasn't until two therapists ago explained to me that they need me to fill a certain role for them. That's why the only way I was ever going to grow, was if I separated from them. They never wanted me to be who I could be. They needed me to be the scapegoat of the family. I wish I was as strong as I am now thirty years ago, but it is what it is, and I'm happy I'm in a much healthier place now.

One of my therapists told me he and some of his clients got to a point in their upbringing where they were able to step back and see that a certain family member/parent was crazy. I couldn't. I needed someone to tell me they were. I was too scared to allow myself to see that truth. Either it was my fault, or their fault, and I don't know why I chose to believe them and say fine, it's my fault. I lost my sense of self trying to people please them to death. It wasn't until a therapist finally looked at me directly in the eye and assertively and firmly said that they are crazy, did it all start to click. I have a friend whose a psychologist and he tried to explain to me that in my 20s I probably wasn't ready to see it; I would likely get angry if someone tried to say that about my family members. To me it sounded like Stolkholm Syndrome or something, so I tried not to think about it too much. But I guess in some sort of psychological way, it was easier for me to take the blame than to see the truth. I wonder if anyone on here has had similar experiences.

Quote:

You can only take care of you.

And I've finally given myself permission to do so. Trying to take care of my toxic family's needs is like constantly trying to keep a hungry tiger satiated. It's impossible.

This made me cry. It's never, ever been about what *I* need.

In this case, I know it's an example of my old behavior. Anytime my toxic family members called/emailed/whatever, I would jump, as to not make them angry. I would tell them exactly what they wanted to know, so they wouldn't be angry. But I am free from that. I don't have to be that way anymore, and I haven't been for quite a while. I think sometimes they like to test the waters now and then, to see if I've truly changed, or if they can reel me back in to old behaviors.

I LOVE THIS!!!

Seriously. Where did you learn this? I want to read/do/learn the resource you used to learn this. I'm bringing it to my next therapy session to work on.

THANK YOU!!!

aliciagr

Yeah this ^

I think this is why Im so interested in learning about family dynamics, parenting, and communication. Because now we have a son. People say things like you didn't cause another person to become addicted, and yes that is true. But the dysfunction that my husband grew up with effected him and made him much more susceptible to try things to ease/block/take away thoughts and feelings that he didn't know how to cope with, that he was ashamed to share with others. Even after he went away to college (where we met) he still kept all this inside and it simmered, bubbled up, exploded, died back down and would simmer under the surface.

Im so happy to see how far you have come ! And even when things like this happen with your family now - you are looking at it in a constructive way, examining how it makes you feel, why. Looking at who you are on the inside and trying to stay true to this. Its challenging and confusing Im sure, but your in control and finding the balance you need as each situation occurs.



Oh my well.. my MIL was basically headed to her bottom and the olive branch of family therapy with her husband was held out.

To make a long story short. My husband and I lived near my parents in another state. BUT we moved near his parents because he had a great job opportunity but primarily because he felt this need' to reconnect with his parents. His life was going so well, our marriage, his career. BUT in less than a year of being there and having his family back in the picture he started stressing, anxiety, that inner voice and then he relapsed. It was very bad and I had never seen it before. I went to them for help thinking they would handle it like my parents would have. Bad decision.

In the end, months and months later.. my parents came. My dad took him home with him. My mom stayed with me until I could leave and go home too. My FIL was furious with my MIL because of her behaviors. I think it was the last straw. They had been arguing during this whole time period so I found out. My FIL it seems devoted most of his time to work and let her run the home. I think he had stepped out of the marriage emotionally a long time ago. Her other son was devastated about his brother being sick and moving away again.

My MIL has never worked, and was now contemplating being alone with all the people she held on puppet strings walking away from her.
So after many months, she agreed to do therapy with her husband and its led to expanded sessions with all of us. But my husband had to go NC again because he was near an emotional break. No substances but just a breakdown.

I worry a lot about the future and how it will all play out. I want to protect my son and make sure our home is a healthy environment.

Thanks for sharing so much about your life's journey with me !

Pathwaytofree

I give you a lot of credit for doing that. Years ago a stranger I met on vacation recommended the child-rearing book "Love & Logic". I read reviews on it and its premise made a lot of sense. Unfortunately most of us end up repeating parenting methods that our parents used on us, because we don't know anything else. Kudos to you for actively looking to learn other methods.

I am really glad you said this. I could never say this in AA. I do feel that my addictions are in direct correlation with how I was treated by my toxic mother and siblings. I wasn't allowed to have my own feelings. My parents had zero coping skills, and fell apart over every little thing. They wanted statues, not children.

Everything we did or said was "you're being BAD". We were taught to care about their feelings, their needs, their wants, and that ours didn't matter. I needed "something" to help me numb out from my feelings that I had no idea how to deal with, because the message I was taught was "Feelings are scary. Avoid them" and "Your feelings don't matter one bit, so stuff them down." I was completely disconnected from my feelings, my truth, my inner being. I was riddled with anxiety and depression. Some people think you're born an addict/alcoholic. I don't agree with that. I think they're made.

I had a very similar experience. Going away to college freed me geographically, but I still hadn't learned healthy coping skills or how to tap into my thoughts, feelings, needs, or true authentic self.

I really appreciate your saying this. It's taken a great deal of hard work and painful growth to do, but I like who I am becoming. Best wishes to you and your husband on your own journey.

That's too bad but I'm not surprised. People like your MIL are absolutely terrified of looking within. They are big cowards.

Yeah they're the last people to go to, because they'll pretend to care, but use it all against you and your husband. Seriously, I commend you and your husband for wanting to do the right thing and what society tells you to do--to connect with your parents--but society as a whole does not have any understanding of toxic parents. Stay away, keep your distance, keep everything surface based and short. Your husband needs to step out of their tornado so he can work on himself. I hope your husband will learn to build non-judgemental awareness of that inner voice, separate himself from it, and tell himself it's all lies. This was PIVITOL for me to do in my recovery. Trying to run away from the inner voices does not work. His true being--his soul, if I may--is separate from his mind. The mind lies. Feelings lie. He's got to pound it into him, all those messages and tapes put there in childhood are lies placed there from some very sick people. Don't listen to them. Don't give them any power. Laugh at them, stomp them like a bully, be assertive back to them, or just let them come in and float back out--whatever works. This seriously was key to my sanity and recovery.

I'm surprised your FIL was actually furious with your MIL's behavior, because usually the husband is brainwashed into believing anything the crazy wife says, and they're too passive to stick up for anyone. They're scared of the wife just like everyone else. Sounds like he actually has a backbone and sees her for who she is. I know my father believed all the lies my mother told him about us. He wasn't home, he was at work. And when he was home, he saw what he wanted to see.

My guess is, she's going to fall into "woe's me", "victimization" and manipulate people to do stuff for her because they feel sorry for her.

Oh so she did agree?? May I strongly suggest your husband NOT do ANY therapy with them? It's no wonder he had a breakdown. Been there, done that. Let me guess, she blames everyone else for her problems, and talks about what a great mother she is and how much she's done for her children and husband.... Your husband needs individual counseling to focus on HIMSELF and on HIS marriage. He needs to grow through all that old pain. Just my opinion, take what you want and leave the rest.
I hope you will find a therapist who seriously understands toxic family dynamics, instead of talking you into being loving and kind to these people. You need to protect yourself, your husband needs to protect himself, and you both need to protect your son. That being said, of course if your MIL truly grows in therapy and faces HERSELF, then perhaps things could be different. But I'd be on guard if I were you. Maybe losing her husband will change her, who knows. I don't know your MIL or your FIL and I am just going by my own experience with my parents, who may or may not be similar to them.

I'm happy to share whatever experience I have, if it will help others. :-)

mylifeismine

You are getting some great advice here . So this link to medium
chill will give you some useful responses for when you are dealing
with toxic FOO. So glad you are being kind and compassionate to
YOU.

Medium Chill ? Out of the FOG

Pathwaytofree

Thanks, mylifeismine (great user name). Everyone's advice here has been super helpful.

That's a great link you posted. Years ago, I used to follow Out of the Fog and one other similar website/forum. My anxiety back then was still kinda too high and too emotional to get a lot out of it, but I know on some level I absorbed and processed what I needed to.

aliciagr

Thank you. I will look up this book.

I think this is what science has found to be true also. Ive found it best to take what you want and leave the rest in regards to the programs. There is a ton of research that has been done to show that a large number of people who become addicted have suffered trauma, or other types of dysfunction. There is enough data out there now that shows genetics plays a part (born this way) but its rarely the deciding factor. There is also environmental, social, medical, behavioral, psychological aspects. Did we learn good coping skills, did we grow up with a healthy self esteem, undiagnosed medical issues like depression. There is a lot to it. I don't think much was really known back in the 1930's as compared to 2018. Im not ashamed to say that because the stakes are too high for all of us who deal with addiction in our life / family.

This is one thing that I praise my FIL for. He was more of an absent parent delegating childcare to his wife. But he was very hard on my husband about education. Getting good grades, being able to get into a good college, and how he could do anything. Now along with this came high expectations muddled with what was sometimes low self esteem. Do you see the inner conflict? Early on when I met him in school he was too wild for me. The guys he met didn't have many boundaries and there were lots of parties and such. But by the time we graduated and went on for more schooling - he had settled down and it seemed all that was behind him. I think hanging out with a lot of people who had grown up in environments different than he did helped. He learned more personal skills. But yeah it still wasn't resolved on the inside because he didn't focus on the need for healing, just getting by with all this still under the surface.

great advice and a lot of introspection on your part !

The road was rocky with my FIL too. He did just what you said above. Stood by her and just followed along not saying much. But then something changed. You know how we cant change other people - they have to want to make a change. What often seems to be overlooked is that we are "influenced" by other people, and we are driven to change sometimes because we realize what we want in life is going to slip away if we don't change.

My FIL had wanted us to move there and from a long distance the relationship had been good. Now it was slipping away, his son was using drugs, drinking, and was a mess. His wife was hysterical. I was a wreck all alone in this place. When my husband got help and started to get better - my MIL did not. She was still railing against him but my FIL was seeing that he was trying and taking action. It wasn't the action my MIL wanted. She wasn't in control and things weren't being done her way. She wasn't happy and played the victim, setting her boundaries which kept her isolated. He finally said, enough. You can do that, but Im not going to. I see things differently than you do!
You can imagine how that went over? And that's when he filed for divorce. Now my husband feels like the catalyst for their divorce.
My husband and his dad started talking more and now are doing pretty well. There is much more mutual respect like 2 adults. shocking. He hasn't had to go NC with him since that time. He even came to visit us when we moved back home. 2x now ! with no issues. They even went and played golf !


Thank you ! I haven't been going to individual therapy in a while now. The whole mess left me with what the Dr said was PTSD and so Ive been trying to take it easy, relax, enjoy my son. Use some of the behavioral therapy tools I have. My husband still does individual therapy. And no for a while he wont be participating in any more sessions with his mom. I still talk to her and its been ok. I really hope things can be better one day. I sadly asked my mom to try and "fix" her, one experienced mom to another. But she said smartly that she was not getting involved.

Pathwaytofree

Hi aliciagr,

I'm sorry for what you and your husband went through. I can completely see how that caused PTSD.

I need to step away from this topic for the same reason.

I wish you and your husband the very best. Know that there IS help out there for dealing with people like your MIL. Good luck.

Mango212

That is a great way to put it! Thank you.