Quick question retaliation or consequences?

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Old 08-02-2018, 07:39 AM
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Reading this makes me SO glad I am not married and have no children in the house! LOL!
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Old 08-02-2018, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by alwayscovering View Post
I feel it’s expected because I’m the “cook” none of them can cook for themselves.
Ding, ding, ding! Unrealistic Expectations?

Maybe at one time this was necessary in your family but it doesn't mean the dynamic still fits as the family evolves.

Stepping out of the labels/roles I don't want once I identify them is super empowering.

Like that whole control thing? I don't want that inherently, I just got used to it after being raised that way & repeating the behavior over so many years. Years of it being expected of me.

Once I realized I didn't give a flying fig about controlling/planning FOO events & that in fact, I resented it on many levels, I stopped. I explained as best I could & people "heard" but I found that they really just nodded & smiled through my words & my actions changing are what caught their attention & elicited a response.

When I basically said, "I'm taking my hands off this wheel", the car went off the road because no one else was willing to drive. I didn't like driving but for years had convinced myself that in the absence of a driver, I'd HAVE do it just to keep the car from crashing. Who just lets an accident happen when you have the power to avoid it, right?

I was burned out completely, utterly unappreciated, just like any driver that isn't getting rest or breaks or support & keeps feeling pushed to go faster, do better. I finally played the tape through to the end & saw where we were headed (circles), informed them I was ejecting from the ride... & things unfolded naturally.

So, the car flipped a few times. Crashed & burned. Everyone still blames me but I keep pointing to their working legs & arms & beating hearts & minds full of potential & telling them they can choose to get up & walk away like I did - they don't have to stay trapped under the wreckage, screaming & pointing fingers of blame. That's a choice.
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:01 AM
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Great analogy FireSprite!
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:35 AM
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alwayscovering…..I don't think it has to come to a shoot-out at The OK Corral....
I think that a way to approach it would be to communicate your feelings to your husband in a non-attacking sort of way and make a plan for changes in how the family feedings can be handled.....You and your husband need to be on the same page (about everything)….with each person taking their part....

Realistically....if the children have never been taught or expected to cook....why would they be expected to be able to?
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Old 08-03-2018, 02:39 AM
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When I was active in my alcoholism a good session would always give me an attack of the munchies regardless of what I'd eaten beforehand, and instant gratification was far more important at that moment than financial or dietary consequences. He may be being defensive for the very reason that he knows that ordering the take-out was a stupid idea. Or he may only vaguely remember it.

Might be worth praying for a pause. Because, wherever you decide about ongoing commitments to food prep or sharing the responsibility (and control) over it in the future, it should be a considered decision, not a reaction made in anger and resentment. Motivation is a big factor. You can detatch from this responsibility with love (for your own and their wellbeing), or alternatively do it as a punishment. Self-honesty with yourself is important, as the one person likely to lose sleep over it is you.

I'm a teacher of Life Skills to teenagers with special needs I can vouch for the fact that all kids can at least help with food prep, and all teens and adults can learn to make a half decent meal. But it comes with practice. If they don't get a chance to practice then it ain't gonna happen. In many ways the loving thing woukd be to make this a shared responsibility. Even your youngest could be on the rota with you supporting them. And every one could make their own packed lunch. Yep. Even the youngest. One of the mum's of my autistic 16 year old pupil came to see me last term in tears of happiness. Her son had, the previous weekend realised he was hungry, and instead of yelling "Mum sandwich" Like he always had, he had gone to the kitchen, got two slices of bread and put some filling between them and eaten it. He had recognised his need, and understood how he could solve this problem independently. Admittedly it involved a lot of mess, and we'll work on that in the future, but she considered this a major breakthrough. Suddenly she could see all kinds of doors opening up for her lovely son that she previously never hoped could. Now, if this young man, who solves social dilemmas by holding conversations using inanimate objects and who needs 1:1 support to access the outside world can make his own sandwich, sure as eggs are eggs, your brood can do the same. The other part of this mum's feelings were different though. She started to question if her son would continue to love her if he didn't need her so much. And I suppose that's a real fear for all mum's to a degree, but it's one that she is willing to risk leaning into because she considers his independence to be so very important. Life Skills are important. They mean that young people can go off into life (work, or university, or like my student, into supported living) confident and able to look after their most basic needs so they can focus on more important and interesting things, and not end up reliant on junk food and ready meals. These are all good and loving reasons for relinquishing control over the cooking.

How would you feel if on their cooking nights they didn't cook very well or what you wanted, or made more of a mess, or took more time, or got frustrated and had the occasional tantrum when things went wrong, or forgot? Because all these things would be likely at first. Could you respond to the situation with love, and be supportive rather than gloating? Do you really want them to learn and contribute to the running of the household, and maybe even become keen and inspired cooks themselves, (maybe even get bettr at it than you) or is this more about making a point and forcing them to appreciate you? Of course, these are all questions for reflection, not to answer to here or to anyone else.

As far as sharing a charge card with an active alcoholic though? Hmmm, that sounds like it could get pretty problematic in the long term. When alcoholics drink they are in a bubble where they might know about consequences, but they no longer matter. The alcoholic is freed from the pain of past consequences or the worry of making new disasters, to go ahead and cause more mayhem. If he s alcoholic then there is likely to be some financial fall-out. Have you considered having a seperate account for your funds so he can't spend them on a drunken whim?

BB
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Old 08-03-2018, 06:57 AM
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Morning! thank you all so much for the feedback. I've been in some DOT certification training so I'm just getting around to coming back to read the rest of the responses.

Regarding cooking: I've tried desperately to teach the oldest how to cook. He just walks away in the middle of cooking, so obviously I finish it. The youngest is 9 and he does try to help. He's the only one that ever eats with me and he does try to help cook and clean up afterwards.

AH is on my complete sh!t list today and it stems from other crap that happened last night.

At the end of the day I realized 2-3 times a week they eat out or just make a sandwich. -Then why should I cook for them?

It has been forever the rule in our house that the grocery list is made on Wednesday nights. I ask everyone if they have any dinner requests. You have until friday at 4pm to add or suggest anything because that's when I leave work and go grocery shopping. If you don't contribute to meal planning then you don't get to complain about what's for dinner.

As far as the budget part. We each get pocket money do with whatever we want. Neither of us get to spend out of the account without consulting the other. Fast food is pocket money only expenses.

I have decided that I will continue to cook dinner but they will be Keto style dinners to fit my nutritional needs and it will also fit my youngest's nutritional needs (nothing wrong with a meat and vegetable) I will not make any elaborate or complicated meals unless it's something I want or someone has asked in advance for me to make. (meaning no running out to the store last minute to get ingredients)

9yr old and I will pack lunches the night before and since he gets up with me will help make our breakfast. If either of the other two want breakfast or their lunch packed, they will need to get their lazy butts out of bed to do that themselves.

I purchased a dry erase board at 6am (gotta love walmart) and I will be mounting it on the wall and I have created a chore list. I will make sure MY stuff is done and I will make sure 9yr old's stuff is done. Since AH likes to get pissy when I make my 16yr old SS do stuff, he can be responsible for making him do his stuff. If it doesn't get done, I will not do it. If the chore goes undone for so long that someone else has to do extra because it wasn't done I'm going to change the wifi password. Keep pushing me and I'll start shutting off phones and take away video games.
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Old 08-03-2018, 07:29 AM
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I see lots of healthy boundaries in there alwayscovering! Good for you!
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Old 08-03-2018, 07:48 AM
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alwayscovering…..when my kids were still at home, I had the list of chores on the refridgerator, also...lol...along with my own, of course.....
One thing that worked well, as a positive motivator...is that allowance was given of Fridays....after my work, nd their school.....
And, I didn't nag about getting the chores done....they just didn't get the allowance, if the chores weren't done (or until they were completed). No exceptions, or excuses.
Now...if they wanted the allowance, early, on Thursday evening. say...that was allowable as long as the chores had been completed.
lol..I found out that money was a great motivator.....and, it cut out the nagging and the resistance....
Another "tip"....if anyone wanted an extra amount in their allowance...it could be earned by doing a chore that was above and beyond their usual list....Like, perhaps, cleaning the refridgerator...or washing windows...etc.... As long as it was a legitimate chore that I agreed on....

I asked the kids which chores they wanted to be assigned...and, tried my best to make a fair distribution of them....They could swap with someone else, if both parties agreed.....

I think that being a single parent while my kids were still little, helped so much....everyone has to pitch in to keep the household running...so, this was just a part of their life....
LOl...they, especially, loved grocery shopping. No bad behavior or tantrums in the store...otherwise, the offender had to stay with a sitter, on the next trip. Each one got to have one "preference" buy, at the point of check-out....
And, so ion...
by the time that they were teenagers, I could give any of them a list and they could do the complete shopping by themselves....

Also, they did their own clothes washing, as soon as they were able to work the washer and dryer. That was a big help.....


And, praise, occasionally, goes a long way, with kids...as long as it is sincere and not overdone.....a "thank you" here and there and recognition for a job well done encourages kids as much as it does us adults.....
All of us want to feel appreciated......
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Old 08-03-2018, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by alwayscovering View Post
It has been forever the rule in our house that the grocery list is made on Wednesday nights. I ask everyone if they have any dinner requests. You have until friday at 4pm to add or suggest anything because that's when I leave work and go grocery shopping. If you don't contribute to meal planning then you don't get to complain about what's for dinner.
Well you all are far nicer about all of this than I was lol

No one ever got a say when I was cooking (which was probably 80 percent of the time). I cooked, you ate it - or not, up to you but no one complained that I can remember. It was the same with my Mom, she cooked we ate - period. There was no stick held over our head, it was just the way it was (ok there were a couple of liver dinner rebellions but they were few and far between, thankfully).

My Mom never taught any of us to cook as in, stand in the kitchen and this is how it's done. All of us can cook (and pretty decently if I do say so myself). It seems like some learn by osmosis while others are probably just not interested.

It sounds like war is about to break out in your house alwayscovering. No problem with that I guess as long as you are comfortable with it. AH and SS going one way, you and your child going another. Sounds like detaching, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

I think the really good thing is you are seeing your resentment and doing something about it. You have decided on your boundaries.
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Old 08-03-2018, 09:34 AM
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Thank you all. I'm just so frustrated and I'm trying desperately to get myself some peace because I cannot live with this war of emotions in my head.
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Old 08-03-2018, 09:46 AM
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alwayscovering……I can "hear" a bubbling caldron of resentment and anger in your posts.....
Can you identify, specifically, what you mean about the "War".....
I (we) already know that you feel unappreciated....are there any other specific things that you can identify?
I think that, sometimes, there can be so much built up stuff, that it becomes one big roar....like the sound of a tornado of freight train....
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Old 08-03-2018, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by dandylion View Post
alwayscovering……I can "hear" a bubbling caldron of resentment and anger in your posts.....
Can you identify, specifically, what you mean about the "War".....
I (we) already know that you feel unappreciated....are there any other specific things that you can identify?
I think that, sometimes, there can be so much built up stuff, that it becomes one big roar....like the sound of a tornado of freight train....
I'm angry because I don't feel like I can be myself and I haven't for a long time. I don't like walking on eggshells. I'm tired of being expected to be over last night's bullsh!t because he is or because he doesn't remember it. I want the life I was promised. I feel like I was robbed of having a second child I know that's my fault because I stayed but I didn't even realize he was an alcoholic until it was too late anyway.

I don't want him to be in pain but I want to know he understands how badly he's hurt me. I cringe whenever he tells people our marriage is great. It's not. But I can't ever tell him that. He's always drunk it'll just start a fight.

I know healing takes time and I've just barely started.

The war I feel in my head is going between I love him and right now I really don't f*cking like him. I want to leave but I can't. I'm so angry and so tired and sad. He's ripped me to shreds and I let him and I just want all the noise to stop.
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Old 08-03-2018, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by alwayscovering View Post
I want the life I was promised. I feel like I was robbed of having a second child I know that's my fault because I stayed but I didn't even realize he was an alcoholic until it was too late anyway.
You can leave, anytime you want to.

I actually got a visual of what you are saying here. You have 3 people trying to claim your time and good nature. Your child is holding your hand (as it should be), your AH is pulling the back of your shirt, your SS is holding on to the side of the shirt.

Everyone is pulling you from all sides. Leaving your young child out of this, as he is powerless without you - the other two are just looking our for number 1.

Who is looking out for you? Not your AH, not your SS - but most important, not you. I think that dynamic is terribly hard to break out of without major clashes.

The other thing at play here is you are either your SS parent or you are not. Seems you AH would like you to do all the parenting peripheral stuff with none of the responsibility that comes with parenting (instructing etc).

Do you attend therapy at all? I am just thinking that additional tools to handle all this might help calm some of your anger (not that anger is a bad thing in my book - as long as it doesn't become the norm, that's self-destructive too).
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Old 08-03-2018, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by trailmix View Post
You can leave, anytime you want to.

I actually got a visual of what you are saying here. You have 3 people trying to claim your time and good nature. Your child is holding your hand (as it should be), your AH is pulling the back of your shirt, your SS is holding on to the side of the shirt.

Everyone is pulling you from all sides. Leaving your young child out of this, as he is powerless without you - the other two are just looking our for number 1.

Who is looking out for you? Not your AH, not your SS - but most important, not you. I think that dynamic is terribly hard to break out of without major clashes.

The other thing at play here is you are either your SS parent or you are not. Seems you AH would like you to do all the parenting peripheral stuff with none of the responsibility that comes with parenting (instructing etc).

Do you attend therapy at all? I am just thinking that additional tools to handle all this might help calm some of your anger (not that anger is a bad thing in my book - as long as it doesn't become the norm, that's self-destructive too).
Rereading what I wrote makes me feel completely insane right now.

I have a few calls out to therapists but they are booked for months. I can call my previous therapist but there is only so much she can do from another state. She got licensed here but my insurance won't let me use her. something about I can only use a life coach via teleconference but insurance doesn't pay for that... So I'm back to square one.
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Old 08-03-2018, 12:58 PM
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I don't think you sound insane but you do sound like you are at the end of your rope (of the let go or be dragged variety).

That usually pans out one of two ways - anger and frustration as you have now, which can be a good motivator for change, or the person gives up and lives in isolation.

I'm glad you are part of the former.
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Old 08-03-2018, 01:07 PM
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alwayscovering…...I read that you recently started going to alanon…..good.
I think you would benefit from going to a support group sponsored by your local domestic violence organization....they are usually free or very low cost.....
I think you may need more specific attention than alanon is designed for (nothing against alanon)…..

Remember that emotional and psychologic trauma can leave scars as much as physical scars.....


I, also, think that you are in need of some time and space, in order to feel stable on your feet, again.....and, to be able to get some better support, do some self-reflection, and make some decisions about what you need/want.....

Sure, detachment is a good tool...but, it is not the only thing to fix a toxic relationship. A hammer is an excellent tool...but, you can't build a whole house with just a hammer.....

Perhaps, a planned separation would give you some time and space in order to clear your head....
I don't think you can heal from the damage while the damage is still being inflicted.....
In addition...living with so much inner anger and tension and stress has disasterous effects on a person's health...both, physically and mentally....

You are not "insane".....you are just living in an "insane" situation.....
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Old 08-05-2018, 05:26 PM
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Lots of details missing here, but my impression is that it's possible you may be a controlling person or at least have some control issues. I know when things were the worst with my spouse I was very controlling (still struggle with wanting to be in control).

Drove my wife and daughter crazy, but I was just struggling to keep the wheels on at home while my crazy wife and my daughter did not help at all. I felt resentful and used.

Learned in Alanon to let go of my controlling ways, somewhat, and also to be better about doing what I do without expecting anything from anybody else. Somebody here once typed that expectations are just baby resentments. That's been true for me.

Good luck!
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Old 08-08-2018, 02:11 PM
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It sounds like you've got a good workable solution for now (you make dinner based on what you want and what is good for your youngest, husband and stepson can either eat it or fend for themselves). However as others have noted it sounds like this is not the end of the issue - you're angry and resentful of your husband and stepson. I wonder if you're angry at them more often than you're not angry with them? What's the ratio (more or less) of angry resentment to positive feelings? If it's way out of whack, you may be on the brink of bigger changes.
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Old 08-08-2018, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by alwayscovering View Post
I guess I just felt like if they were going to eat fast food then why didn’t someone say something and I wouldn’t have spent all that time making dinner. I spend a ton of time creating meals and trying to meet everyone’s nutritional needs. This stuff is requested and sometimes I feel it’s expected because I’m the “cook” none of them can cook for themselves.
Full stop.

Okay, if I made dinner, and folks arrived home and said they weren't hungry cause they ate already, that's one thing. An occasional treat at the fast food place is something else.

My mother was a full time teacher. She planned the meals, but she wasn't a short order cook to prepare different entrees for everyone. We had two choices: take it or leave it. It was a little more complicated, I guess. We had to at least try a bite of everything. We were free to fill up on vegetables or bread and butter, I guess. Not dessert. In my best friend's home, rules were the same as at our house. In other families, a person who didn't like what was served could make her own dinner...yes, from nine or ten years old. My college room mate didn't care for her mother's cooking and ate a lot of fried egg sandwiches.

Maybe your county extension can help, 'cause it takes time, but it shouldn't take that much time. Stuff can be put in the crockpot. Baking a casserole; might as well be two so you can put one in the freezer. Our supermarket puts out a bi-monthly magazine with a "dinner from the fast lane" feature. It's a shopping list of a dozen items, and recipes for three meals you make from them.

I don't know what's involved in 'taking care of the dogs.' That shouldn't all fall to you, either.
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Old 08-09-2018, 05:13 AM
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AC you can impose rules (tasks on the whiteboard) 'til the cows come home but they will find ways of getting around it. I struggled with this myself and only made progress when I sat my lazy teenage daughter down and asked her what she thought was fair. Put on the spot, she offered to do much more than she had previously, and sort of stuck to it.
We also set up a family cleaning night where we would get take-away and do a quick concentrated sweep through the house with the music on. Didn't take that long and honour was satisfied.
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