Sober but behavior is still the same
 

My son has been sober for 2.5 years and I am so grateful!!
His behavior has stayed the same for the most part. He is an angry young man and when life is difficult he is angry and tends to project that on to me his Mom. Hard times....

Sounds more abstinent than sober.

Is he working some kind of a program like AA or did he just stop drinking?

Sorry for what you brought here, it's so hard and you do not deserve to be the brunt of his anger. This is where a program really helps them to learn new healthy coping skills.

There's a saying: "if you take the alcohol away from a drunken horse thief you have a horse thief". Only abstinence doesn't change someone, it's the 12 Steps plus therapy and a lot of hard work that is required.

Growingstronger, I'm an older man(64) and have been sober 8 years, still as angry as ever. Emotional problems are a thing unto themselves and aren't necessarily related to substance abuse. I've had little luck changing my core behaviors. Wish the best for you and your son. :egypt:

What is his age if you don't mind my asking?

growingstronger…..a few questions.....How old is he? does he depend on you in any ways? Does he live with you?

Does he show you disrespect in any way....? verbally? Accuse, blame, etc?....Hit you up for money? Disrespect your time.....?
Do he have any other co-occurring diagnoses.....like, maybe, Adult ADHD, depression, autism spectum disorder, generalized anxiety disorder...etc...?
How does he get along with others? Does he work? Go to school?.....

In my mind, sobriety is about growing up, sobering up and working a program. Sounds like he is nothing but a dry drunk.

What are you doing for you? Are you in alanon or going to open aa meetings. Do you see a therapist? You do not need to accept unacceptable behavior. Just because he is sober, doesnt give him permission to treat you awful.

You deserve to be happy!!

He is 24 years old. He is very disrespectful to his Dad and I. Really he is disrespectful to everyone, including himself. He blames and accuses me when things don’t go as he would like. He has a good job lives on his own and does not ask for money. He is in his second relationship with a very insecure girl toxic relationship I believe.

Thank you for that!!
I am seeing a therapist. I was going to alanon for a few years. Things for better for about a year and I quit going. I know he needs to grow-up and mature. He has never worked a program since getting out of rehab 2.5 years ago.

Never thought of it that way. I do think you are correct.

24

Very true. He has never worked a program. After rehab he would not go. I don’t think he has been to one meeting since he got out 2.5 years ago. We tried to encourage him to but he never has. We went to our own meetings and we both are seeing therapists. My husband and myself that is.

growingstronger….I am glad to hear that you and your husband are seeing therapists. Is this for individual therapy....as, in you seeing individual therapists.....or....marriage therapy....? are these therapists helping you to understand how to deal with your son in specific ways?

The reason that I ask is that it is not acceptable, at all, for your son to be allowed to be disrespectful to you or his dad.
Yes...it does sound like he needs more treatment....like AA and therapy....and possibly that he may have dual diagnosis....many alcoholics do have a dual diagnosis and they need to be treated for the alcoholism and anything else, simultaneously....

Since he is 24yrs. old....you don't have control over him, any more...but you do have some power!
You have the power to set boundaries....And, boundaries are the only thing that will give you any peace of mind and protect you from being emotionally/verbally abused by him.
Both you and your husband may need more help from the therapists to help you learn this kind of boundary setting with an adult child....Alanon is a good place to learn how to set boundaries.....
Some examples are....Do not talk to him on the phone, if he is being disrespectful, to you. That includes answering e-mails or texting.
Do not welcome him to your home, for visits..... if he is behaving in disrespectful or negative ways....

To the extent that he is behaving in disrespectful ways, to you...and getting by with it....your are enabling him....even if you have never thought of it this way....
This is damaging to him (and you)…..it is not loving...
I know that this probably goes against all of your parental instincts...and will probably be hard for you to do, at first....

I am delighted to hear that he is not living in your house and that he has a job and is not dependent on you for money/survival. You are so lucky, in that respect!! That would make things sooo much more difficult and full of conflict, if that were the case...…

Never, ever, let him move back into the family home for more than a few days (for a visit, etc.)….for adult children with "problems"...that is a guaranteed formula for disaster.....


Please, don't think that I am saying not to love your son.....You will always love him, no matter what....but, sometimes, a parent has to learn to love from a distance for their and your own good.....
I have been through this, myself...so I am saying all of this from experience....

Do you happen to carry him on your insurance, since he is 24yrs. old?

You are so right on everything you said. He was better than he is now, I am not sure what really changed in his life but something did. I do know he needs help and I have encouraged it- he is adamant that it is dumb and not needed. He became verbally abusivie when I told him I did not agree with him and his girlfriends decisions. I told him I was not jiudging and acccepted his choices as his own. I just wanted him to know I did not agree. They had brought the conversation to me. I was never angry - but he was.
I believe he does well until life happens with events that he can’t control. Then he does not know what to do and he goes back to his old coping skills - just without alcohol.
He is still on our insurance, why do you ask?
I thank you for your words- I needed them.

Hi, growingstronger.
Welcome.
Boundaries are a good thing. We set them for ourselves, not for others.
It can be difficult when your child is used to a certain behavior from you and your husband, but it can be done.
On the phone, you could start with, “I won’t continue to speak with you when you are disrespectful. This conversation is over.”
Then hang up and block him.
I am assuming that he comes to your house whenever he wants to, probably when he wants to give you a tough time about whatever is going wrong in his life at the moment.
I can’t offer advice about how to put a stop to that. Perhaps others will have some insight.
But.....You are not his verbal punching bag.
Good luck.

You are doing him a favor by insuring him, growingstronger.
Being on your parent’s insurance is not a god-given right.
Perhaps it’s time for him to stand up and get his own insurance, since he doesn’t seem to appreciate your generosity.

growingstronger…..the reason that I asked that question is because it might pay for evaluation and treatment of any ongoing issues...especially for ruling out any other co-occurring diagnoses....like the list that I suggested, earlier...
He may not be agreeable to any suggestions that you have....but, there is a chance that he may be.....


On another note....if he came to you to discuss certain issues in his life...you have every right to express your opinion.....doesn't mean that you get a vote...lol....but, you do have a right to express your opinion.....


There is. also, a chance that he could be "sipping" again...without you knowing it...or, even shifted to another substance (s)…..that is not uncommon , especially, if he is not working a program.


He is at a very difficult age...in that he is only 24 and probably still a bit immature (on top of everything else)….and, at this age...peers tend to be Everything to them....and, often don't want the stigma of AA--being an "alcoholic"....or not being cool enough. There is often a lot of drinking and drug usage in late teems and young adults....
At his age...there are so many forces at play...especially, the dependence/independence issues with the parent figures....
No doubt, he has a lot of growing up to do in the next coming years....
As parents...you are still his teachers (and consultants) about life.....
It is imperative that you teach him what boundaries are (by your own example....
Even though you have little to no actual control....you still have the potential of a lot of Influence.....you will always be his parents and he will always be your son.....family connections always run deep....we never forget them....


I think that a couple of things that often come to play, for the parents is the power of "guilt" that parents often harbor...for any number of reasons....and the fear that the child may stop loving them.....
No fear...if the child loved you at 6yrs.old...they will always love you...even if that love looks like it is buried very deep....and, even if they act like they don't love you.....
Still, and all, they must learn to resect the rules of society....and treat you with respect....

Hi growingstonger, I am also a mother with young adult children. I know how difficult it can be. There have been times where I have had to step back from each one of my children when they were behaving in disrespectful ways towards me. It wasn't easy, and it was damn painful.

I agree with the the other posters that said it's best to set some boundaries with your son. You don't even have to tell him what those boundaries are. You just have to live by them to give yourself peace.

Examples of some boundaries:
"I wont talk with him on the phone if he is being disrespectful"
"I wont allow him in my house when he is being aggressive"
"I wont do things for him he should be doing for himself"
"I wont lend or give him money if he has been irresponsible with his earnings"
"I will not engage in circular arguments"
"I will not lend him my vehicle if he drives like a jerk"

Of course those are only examples, and may not apply in your situation.

It is so much harder being a mom to young adults then I ever imagined it would be! My heart goes out to you while you go through this struggle with your son.

,,,,I think that list of examples, by smallbutmighty, are good ones...…
I will offer another tip....for when someone (like your son)….is blaming, accusing, demeaning, etc....is not o get sucked further into the circular arguments....as cited by smallbutmighty...….
Do not JADE.....
J...justify yourself. A....don't argue. Youdon't have to attend every argument that you are invited to. D....defend. You don't have to defend yourself...E....you don't have to explain yourself.....

When you don't JADE...that is drawing a boundary.....