How to commit to RABF
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
Personally I don't think I'd take chances when children are involved. But if you do, tell him he musts stay sober for a solid year. It's no guarantee he'll stay sober but it's better than a few weeks.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,792
Do you recognize what he is doing?? He is losing control over you so he is upping his anty...... I love you, lets move in together, lets get married. All the things every women wants to hear.
But look at the big picture, nothing will have changed. He is showing you who he is, an alcoholic. He is not going to change, as he likes who he is. Is this truly what you want the rest of your life? I did it for 3/4 of my life, 34 years. The biggest mistake of my life, waiting for my addict to get sober, because you know what the bottle always wins. Not a spouse, not their kids, not a job, not a home, nothing. They will give everything up for the bottle.
Move on in life, don't subject your kids to this. You will be better then Ok, you will soar, when away from him.
(((((((hugs))))))))
But look at the big picture, nothing will have changed. He is showing you who he is, an alcoholic. He is not going to change, as he likes who he is. Is this truly what you want the rest of your life? I did it for 3/4 of my life, 34 years. The biggest mistake of my life, waiting for my addict to get sober, because you know what the bottle always wins. Not a spouse, not their kids, not a job, not a home, nothing. They will give everything up for the bottle.
Move on in life, don't subject your kids to this. You will be better then Ok, you will soar, when away from him.
(((((((hugs))))))))
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 72
I keep reading and rereading all if your words. I hope you all know that you have a tremendous impact. Believe it or not, I’m a mental health professional but I can’t see the forest through the trees. Your posts are helping me to gain clarity. I will read and read again until I can “step aside”. Of course his daughter is at my house as I write hanging out w my boys while he goes to a meeting. I offered. Yes. I’ll read Codependent again. Thank you, love and appreciation to you all
Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 497
Originally Posted by hopeful4 
Nope. I would never be with someone who has been an addict (sorry, I don't mean to offend, it's my personal choice I cannot live with the chances of relapse and putting my family through that again). That being said, if I were to do so, they would have to be clean for at least five years, and I mean no "slips" or anything of the sort, and show that they are working recovery for THEMSELVES, to prove it. It sounds to me like he knows where your mind set it and is possibly doing all of this just to prove it to you. What happens when you are married, have purchased a house together, and then he picks up again??
This is only my two cents. Loving someone is just not enough when addiction is involved. I say that kindly because I know it's painful. Big hugs to you.
This is only my two cents. Loving someone is just not enough when addiction is involved. I say that kindly because I know it's painful. Big hugs to you.
I agree, and not only for me but for the kids.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
2kind4me......Yes, "Co-Dependent No More" is good to reread....and, I believe that there is a workbook that you can order, if you want to...
since you are a mental health professional....and, you would like to learn more...I suggest that you might like to read and study "The Addicted Brain"....by Michael Kuhar. It contains latest research on what actually happens to the brain, with alcohol/drugs. It can help explain a lot of the doesn't make sense to the average person about how and why alcoholics behave as they do....
In addition, since you are the mother of adolescent boys, it will help you to realize the vital importance of keeping your boys, with their still vulnerable and developing brains, away from alcohol and drugs.....The earlier that they are exposed, the more damage it can do...…
I have sooo much empathy for single mothers who are raising boys....If you check, there are some books written specifically for mothers who are raising boys, alone...I know that this material will resonate a lot with you!! There were no such books, when my boys were that age...…!
since you are a mental health professional....and, you would like to learn more...I suggest that you might like to read and study "The Addicted Brain"....by Michael Kuhar. It contains latest research on what actually happens to the brain, with alcohol/drugs. It can help explain a lot of the doesn't make sense to the average person about how and why alcoholics behave as they do....
In addition, since you are the mother of adolescent boys, it will help you to realize the vital importance of keeping your boys, with their still vulnerable and developing brains, away from alcohol and drugs.....The earlier that they are exposed, the more damage it can do...…
I have sooo much empathy for single mothers who are raising boys....If you check, there are some books written specifically for mothers who are raising boys, alone...I know that this material will resonate a lot with you!! There were no such books, when my boys were that age...…!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 72
Trying ...
Hi. So I had a conversation with RABF and he said that he accepts that we won’t move in or get engaged in the next year. He said his sponsor would tell him that he absolutely should not do that. But he said that AA tells him that his recovery will take place within the context of his life which I have been a part of. He said the next year would be used to strengthen it so that we can take bigger steps later. That may be what he has said all along. I don’t know. He also feels like he’s being punished because now he’s full into a recovery program but he can’t have his relationship which is the best part of his life etc etc I told him that all of it involves me still waiting for him and taking the risk. I told him that I’ll see him but we’re not going to be “together” for now.
I would be ok if he would just accept that. I know he won’t.
I would be ok if he would just accept that. I know he won’t.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,618
He said his sponsor would tell him that he absolutely should not do that. But he said that AA tells him that his recovery will take place within the context of his life which I have been a part of.
I doubt it says in the big book - but if your girlfriend wants to back off from the relationship while you are attempting recovery, you should respect that. That's because it's not a relationship book, it's about recovery.
Truthfully, he is a grown man and should be able to make a relationship decision all by himself (not to be confused with decisions you make).
I would be ok if he would just accept that. I know he won’t.
It's early early early in his recovery. He can't see the forest for the trees yet. Again, he is not considering you or your children.
That's the hook. He can't see the forest and it's still all about him. He also can't see that he has only been in sobriety for 5 minutes and if he could see the forest he would realize he is not thinking clearly, not considering you, not considering your children - at all.
Time is the only thing here. Time for him to grow and for you to experience your life and live it as well, without the burden of his alcoholism in a relationship.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by trailmix
So AA over-rules what his sponsor has explained and it's implied it should over-rule you too.
I doubt it says in the big book - but if your girlfriend wants to back off from the relationship while you are attempting recovery, you should respect that. That's because it's not a relationship book, it's about recovery.
Truthfully, he is a grown man and should be able to make a relationship decision all by himself (not to be confused with decisions you make).
Punished. Well, from a completely self-centered point of view I can see why he thinks that.
It's early early early in his recovery. He can't see the forest for the trees yet. Again, he is not considering you or your children.
That's the hook. He can't see the forest and it's still all about him. He also can't see that he has only been in sobriety for 5 minutes and if he could see the forest he would realize he is not thinking clearly, not considering you, not considering your children - at all.
Time is the only thing here. Time for him to grow and for you to experience your life and live it as well, without the burden of his alcoholism in a relationship.
I doubt it says in the big book - but if your girlfriend wants to back off from the relationship while you are attempting recovery, you should respect that. That's because it's not a relationship book, it's about recovery.
Truthfully, he is a grown man and should be able to make a relationship decision all by himself (not to be confused with decisions you make).
Punished. Well, from a completely self-centered point of view I can see why he thinks that.
It's early early early in his recovery. He can't see the forest for the trees yet. Again, he is not considering you or your children.
That's the hook. He can't see the forest and it's still all about him. He also can't see that he has only been in sobriety for 5 minutes and if he could see the forest he would realize he is not thinking clearly, not considering you, not considering your children - at all.
Time is the only thing here. Time for him to grow and for you to experience your life and live it as well, without the burden of his alcoholism in a relationship.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
2kind4me......he is trying to do 'bargaining" about his recovery...….
I am giving you the following link to a specific article (from the 100 that I gave you, before)…..
I think it applies right now....I think this article is a[pretty good yardstick….
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...-reposted.html (10 Ways to Tell When an Addict or Alcoholic is Full of ****, reposted)
I am giving you the following link to a specific article (from the 100 that I gave you, before)…..
I think it applies right now....I think this article is a[pretty good yardstick….
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...-reposted.html (10 Ways to Tell When an Addict or Alcoholic is Full of ****, reposted)
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 72
[QUOTE=dandylion;6969534]2kind4me......he is trying to do 'bargaining" about his recovery...….
Are you connecting this to not fully surrendering ? He’s not relinquishing control...?
Other than that, he appears NOT to be doing the things on the list. But I know I’m half blind
Are you connecting this to not fully surrendering ? He’s not relinquishing control...?
Other than that, he appears NOT to be doing the things on the list. But I know I’m half blind
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
2kind4me....well---it does sound like he has not full surrendered.....
It also sounds like he is using sobriety as a bargaining chip...as a sort of leverage....
"I am doing this--therefore I am entitled to that"...."If you don't give this to me--you are punishing me"....
His thinking is twisted.....
This is not about recovery being a punishment. The sole reason for sobriety is to free the person up to be able to face life, sober, no matter what life presents....The ability to have a real and genuine life....
No matter if one loses his job, or wife, or house, or if their pet dies.....
sobriety is it's own value...not as a bargaining chip.....
He is not entitled to have a relationship with you....It is a voluntary thing which also hinges on whether you want it or not, also.....not just what he wants....
In other words...it is genuine motivation only if he wants it for him...for himself to have a better life.....not for any other reasons....because the other reasons won't hold water, in the long run....
It also sounds like he is using sobriety as a bargaining chip...as a sort of leverage....
"I am doing this--therefore I am entitled to that"...."If you don't give this to me--you are punishing me"....
His thinking is twisted.....
This is not about recovery being a punishment. The sole reason for sobriety is to free the person up to be able to face life, sober, no matter what life presents....The ability to have a real and genuine life....
No matter if one loses his job, or wife, or house, or if their pet dies.....
sobriety is it's own value...not as a bargaining chip.....
He is not entitled to have a relationship with you....It is a voluntary thing which also hinges on whether you want it or not, also.....not just what he wants....
In other words...it is genuine motivation only if he wants it for him...for himself to have a better life.....not for any other reasons....because the other reasons won't hold water, in the long run....
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 72
Yes I got it and you are totally right. He is saying he’s more deserving than ever for what he is doing. Sounds like his sponsor set him straight to some degree but then he still sent me a text “I love you more than ever”. He has a lot of work to do and so do I.
So grateful for your guidance. Thank you
So grateful for your guidance. Thank you
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
He also feels like he’s being punished because now he’s full into a recovery program but he can’t have his relationship which is the best part of his life etc etc
here is something the big book says:
Selfishness - self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles.
Above everything, we alcoholics must be rid of this selfishness.
We are careful never to pray for our own selfish ends.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the big book mentions selfishness a few times and how important it is to get rid of it.
But he said that AA tells him that his recovery will take place within the context of his life which I have been a part of.
it would be interesting to hear what his sponsors reply to this would be. if i was his sponsor? welp, hard sayin. a few here might know i have a habit of sayin it like it is( no need to lie now, people!!
) and i could see me replying with something like
rationalizing to get what ya want- good luck with that.
or
i understand your thought process,beings how your heads still partially up your ass so your thinking is still jacked up and highly suggest you back off , give this woman and her words the respect they deserve, and focus on yourself.
youre absolutely right. and recovery will take place,if you choose it , if you push her to the point of her deciding to toss you to the curb.
one more thing, and you can even tell hin i said this:
He is saying he’s more deserving than ever for what he is doing.
he doesnt deserve a dam thing for learning how to live the way he should have been living all along.
why that? welp, 7 years sober,called MY sponsor to mention it. his reply:
if youre lookin for kudos or a pat on the back for living like you should have been your entire life, you called the wrong number."
it took him a few years to teach me that- how selfish of him!!!
glad to see ya seeing the red flags and not falling for the childish tactics.
here is something the big book says:
Selfishness - self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles.
Above everything, we alcoholics must be rid of this selfishness.
We are careful never to pray for our own selfish ends.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the big book mentions selfishness a few times and how important it is to get rid of it.
But he said that AA tells him that his recovery will take place within the context of his life which I have been a part of.
it would be interesting to hear what his sponsors reply to this would be. if i was his sponsor? welp, hard sayin. a few here might know i have a habit of sayin it like it is( no need to lie now, people!!
) and i could see me replying with something likerationalizing to get what ya want- good luck with that.
or
i understand your thought process,beings how your heads still partially up your ass so your thinking is still jacked up and highly suggest you back off , give this woman and her words the respect they deserve, and focus on yourself.
youre absolutely right. and recovery will take place,if you choose it , if you push her to the point of her deciding to toss you to the curb.
one more thing, and you can even tell hin i said this:
He is saying he’s more deserving than ever for what he is doing.
he doesnt deserve a dam thing for learning how to live the way he should have been living all along.
why that? welp, 7 years sober,called MY sponsor to mention it. his reply:
if youre lookin for kudos or a pat on the back for living like you should have been your entire life, you called the wrong number."
it took him a few years to teach me that- how selfish of him!!!
glad to see ya seeing the red flags and not falling for the childish tactics.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 72
Haha. I love it !!! Thank you so much for that insight. I am realizing now - (wait for it...) that I am being way too nice. Hahha. I am a very smart woman but I have dedicated 6 years to dumbing down for his sake.
And... I have a date with someone else coming up. He looks like a total normie. I didn’t tell ABF. I feel guilty but just doing what I have to.
And... I have a date with someone else coming up. He looks like a total normie. I didn’t tell ABF. I feel guilty but just doing what I have to.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: maine
Posts: 1,545
Originally Posted by trailmix
- but if your girlfriend wants to back off from the relationship while you are attempting recovery, you should respect that.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: maine
Posts: 1,545
Originally Posted by 2kind4me
He is saying he’s more deserving than ever for what he is doing.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
Hi, 2kind.
My opinion only.
I think often when an addict finds sobriety and recovery, he or she feels that this is a kind of get out of jail free card.
“I’m sober now. Isn’t that what everyone wanted? Let’s forget past wrongs and hurts and start over.”
Unfortunately, as we all know, it’s not that simple.
When an addict in recovery cannot admit to and accept responsibility for the wreckage caused, that is not, again, my opinion, full on recovery.
I think that they can accept this in time, but it can take a while.
I also think it’s a characteristic of a self-centered person, who will remain so, with or without alcohol in the mix.
Good luck and good thoughts.
My opinion only.
I think often when an addict finds sobriety and recovery, he or she feels that this is a kind of get out of jail free card.
“I’m sober now. Isn’t that what everyone wanted? Let’s forget past wrongs and hurts and start over.”
Unfortunately, as we all know, it’s not that simple.
When an addict in recovery cannot admit to and accept responsibility for the wreckage caused, that is not, again, my opinion, full on recovery.
I think that they can accept this in time, but it can take a while.
I also think it’s a characteristic of a self-centered person, who will remain so, with or without alcohol in the mix.
Good luck and good thoughts.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
And... I have a date with someone else coming up. He looks like a total normie. I didn’t tell ABF. I feel guilty but just doing what I have to.
he can’t have his relationship which is the best part of his life etc etc I told him that all of it involves me still waiting for him and taking the risk. I told him that I’ll see him but we’re not going to be “together” for now.
I would be ok if he would just accept that. I know he won’t
I would be ok if he would just accept that. I know he won’t
All the posts above deal with what’s been going on with him and his recovery, so I’m bringing this back around to you and yours. Nothing wrong with dating when you are single but you are still involved with someone who was part of your life for the last 6 years. You told him you’d take the risk and wait for him and that you will see him but that you are not together. What the heck is that really, a play on words? Of course you are still with him, still communicating and just about everything the same as before with the exception of the words not together (which you haven't told him yet). You want him to accept that you cannot be together yet you will wait for him while you are dating and you know he won’t accept that, who would? Do you really think that is the fair thing to do here?
I’m not saying don’t date what I am saying is adding more people into your emotional mix right now is not the answer.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,618
I didn’t tell ABF. I feel guilty but just doing what I have to.
When you said:
I told him that all of it involves me still waiting for him and taking the risk. I told him that I’ll see him but we’re not going to be “together” for now.
I would be ok if he would just accept that. I know he won’t
I would be ok if he would just accept that. I know he won’t
As atalose said, do you need more people in this mix? I'm just saying that if you are truly looking out for yourself you might want to look closer at this situation. This is a disaster waiting to happen.
XABF finds out about you dating (I hope you will tell him) he is hurt and confused, you are hurt and confused, potential new man is hurt and confused.
It's tempting to jump back in to dating when you have been deprived of any kind of normal relationship for so long. Please be careful, don't compromise yourself in the process and by that I mean please don't let a little attention soothe the wounds while possibly opening up another drama.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
