Why do I have to supervise at home detox?
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I agree and it's also good to remember that you don't know how that conversation went.
On the one hand you have a Son confessing their drinking and detox to his parents. The conversation might have gone something like:
"And i'm done with drinking, i'm doing an at home detox with Clarity looking out for me. So now i'm not drinking I don't see ANY reason why I can't look after - child - don't you agree"?
I don't know his parents, are they the type of people who would say, of course Son! (to be encouraging) - or the type who would say, hold on there, maybe you need to step back from that for a bit and take care of yourself and this problem you have.
Honeypig's reply was so spot on.
Hang in there!
On the one hand you have a Son confessing their drinking and detox to his parents. The conversation might have gone something like:
"And i'm done with drinking, i'm doing an at home detox with Clarity looking out for me. So now i'm not drinking I don't see ANY reason why I can't look after - child - don't you agree"?
I don't know his parents, are they the type of people who would say, of course Son! (to be encouraging) - or the type who would say, hold on there, maybe you need to step back from that for a bit and take care of yourself and this problem you have.
Honeypig's reply was so spot on.
Hang in there!
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He went and talked to his parents today so that someone else knows what's going on. I was not there, but he said they basically felt that our son would be safe with him because he is "already this far into the detox process". I don't know what I think about that.
Lies and manipulations are the foundation of addiction. And I do think you know what to think about that, you know it’s not the right thing to do. You can’t use children as an incentives for them to get sober.
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^^^ Yes to the above. According to my ex, his friends, therapists, acquaintances and random people on the bus were all 100% behind him and thought he was doing fine. When I actually spoke to these people directly, I found out that he was not telling the truth about nearly everything. But he was a very plausible liar, and took me ages to figure out that I couldn't trust his account of anything anyone else supposedly had said or done.
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Your posts got me through a weekend. Thanks for the feedback. I of course know that all bets are off as far as leaving child supervision up to him. Today he got assessments done and the swollen ankles are from a liver "that needs to soften up", per what I was told. The doctor allegedly said "I am not worried; it (the liver) should be okay in 1 to 3 months". He said he has lost 15 pounds since he stopped 1.5 weeks ago. Anyway. None of this confirms anything except what I've been telling him, which is that this **** will shorten your life. I know all the work has yet to be done. My parents don't know, but it will be hard to hide from my mother. I don't want her sharing it with my siblings, either. Tomorrow I will go see my father and get a change of scenery.
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B.S.
If his liver needs to "soften up," it means that it has scar tissue, which means cirrhosis has begun. That is also the cause of the swelling. No doctor would say they weren't concerned and that it would be fine in a few months.
Sorry, but he is not being honest with you.
If his liver needs to "soften up," it means that it has scar tissue, which means cirrhosis has begun. That is also the cause of the swelling. No doctor would say they weren't concerned and that it would be fine in a few months.
Sorry, but he is not being honest with you.
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clarity....do you feel like your siblings won't be supportive? Or, that you have failed in some way? Or, that they will resent your husband in some way? Or,just the general stigma of alcoholism or a potential ending of a marriage?
The reason I ask these questions, is, because, these are common reactions that we see a lot, here, on SR...…
Yes, when the curtains are pulled back on reality, there are usually some difficult things to face up to....but, the godd thing is that facing up to reality is what finally sets us free.....
The reason I ask these questions, is, because, these are common reactions that we see a lot, here, on SR...…
Yes, when the curtains are pulled back on reality, there are usually some difficult things to face up to....but, the godd thing is that facing up to reality is what finally sets us free.....
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I am utterly devastated by this and have no idea if I stay to help or go to help. I've asked the doctor for information and I hope he is able to tell me. It's hard to not blame myself for some of his unhappiness. I hate this.
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clarity...I think this is a way that you can step back and look at it.....
Fact No. 1. There is nothing you can do to "help" him....except to get out of his way and not be deliberately obstructive. His life battle is with the disease of alcoholism...and, only he can do this...because it all happen inside of him.
You are not responsible for h is "unhappiness"....and, any additional baggage that he carries in his life, besides the alcoholism, is also his to deal with.
Unhappiness, in itself, does not cause alcoholism....it is using alcohol to cope with life and the resultant effects that it has on a person's brain, that causes addiction.
No. 2. You are not qualified to help him. Even if you had a Ph.D. in alcoholism, you are too close to him and he would resent the hell out of you, for it.
The best people to help him are other alcoholics, and the professionals who are trained to help him. Plus, it would drain you dry and keep him and his alcoholism the central core of your relationship...which is a formula for disaster, as far as relationships are concerned.
No.3. I suggest that you look at what will help YOU....and, I think, from what you have shared...it would be to have a planned break...distance...vacation...whatever you want to call it...to give both of you a chance to get a clearer picture of what the future may hold and what you want to commit to.....I think that the stint in rehab, and, then a few months living in a sober living situation (house) might be a good plan to think about.
That is not an unusual plan, by the way. At one time, we--my husband and I owned an Oxford House (google it...lol)….Owned it...but rented it to Oxford House. It was a men's house... and, the average stay was between 6mo. and 18 months. I got to know many of the residents....such a nice group of men. They were mostly, married...and got passes to visit family. They were very serious about their recovery, and seemed to know that it had to be their first priority...above all else. They were learning to walk the talk...
No 4. Focus on yourself....and your own self examination and learning.
Pass you exams first! Because....a woman needs to be able to be self sufficient for herself and children,,,,because we never know what life will throw our way!
Line up a support group...like alanon or some similar group, and your own therapist to walk with you through all of this.....
You will get stronger, as time goes on....
I sincerely hope that you will continue to post and study, here...and take advantage of the wisdom of the others who have walked this path, before you...
Fact No. 1. There is nothing you can do to "help" him....except to get out of his way and not be deliberately obstructive. His life battle is with the disease of alcoholism...and, only he can do this...because it all happen inside of him.
You are not responsible for h is "unhappiness"....and, any additional baggage that he carries in his life, besides the alcoholism, is also his to deal with.
Unhappiness, in itself, does not cause alcoholism....it is using alcohol to cope with life and the resultant effects that it has on a person's brain, that causes addiction.
No. 2. You are not qualified to help him. Even if you had a Ph.D. in alcoholism, you are too close to him and he would resent the hell out of you, for it.
The best people to help him are other alcoholics, and the professionals who are trained to help him. Plus, it would drain you dry and keep him and his alcoholism the central core of your relationship...which is a formula for disaster, as far as relationships are concerned.
No.3. I suggest that you look at what will help YOU....and, I think, from what you have shared...it would be to have a planned break...distance...vacation...whatever you want to call it...to give both of you a chance to get a clearer picture of what the future may hold and what you want to commit to.....I think that the stint in rehab, and, then a few months living in a sober living situation (house) might be a good plan to think about.
That is not an unusual plan, by the way. At one time, we--my husband and I owned an Oxford House (google it...lol)….Owned it...but rented it to Oxford House. It was a men's house... and, the average stay was between 6mo. and 18 months. I got to know many of the residents....such a nice group of men. They were mostly, married...and got passes to visit family. They were very serious about their recovery, and seemed to know that it had to be their first priority...above all else. They were learning to walk the talk...
No 4. Focus on yourself....and your own self examination and learning.
Pass you exams first! Because....a woman needs to be able to be self sufficient for herself and children,,,,because we never know what life will throw our way!
Line up a support group...like alanon or some similar group, and your own therapist to walk with you through all of this.....
You will get stronger, as time goes on....
I sincerely hope that you will continue to post and study, here...and take advantage of the wisdom of the others who have walked this path, before you...
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I guess what I mean by "do I stay and help" is: do I stay and try to be supportive. I just asked him if the doctor called it cirrhosis, we had a discussion. It all depends on labwork and then if needed something with a scope to examine the liver. Of course, I "went there" about why would he be so unhappy that he would not talk to me about things and instead drink like this. I asked what was wrong in the marriage; he has had to be a big caretaker while I was in school in the mornings AND evenings. He could have used more help. I am not much of a cook, but I do laundry/housework/pay bills--more like manage stuff. And keep things cleaned up. Unfortunately with being in a school program the last two years, I left at 6:15 a.m. or so, so he did the morning drill with our son who would only just wake up at 6:15. I would get home around 5 or 6, always had school stuff to do, but always put son to bed and helped clean up dinner stuff. He has been a great support to me while I was in school, and I feel extremely guilty. I did always ask him to go do something for himself, but he'd refuse. I admit I'm not a great wife in many ways. I am trying to find a place for counseling and not getting messages returned, but will keep trying. Thanks for listening.
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It's the stigma, the ending of a marriage. They have good marriages. Our parents divorced, I hate following that path. I also know, though, that the model we were shown was not a good one (while my parents were married), so they likely would not be surprised. Being the oldest, I rebelled quite a lot when they divorced, also served as the "peacemaker" trying to keep a relationship w/our dad. Overall though, it's the idea that being married to me made him nearly drink himself to death.
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Originally Posted by clarity888 
Overall though, it's the idea that being married to me made him nearly drink himself to death.
None of us has that much power!
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clarity...it sounds like you are "stuck" on the idea that you have to be some special "support system" for him....in order for him to get into recovery.
the usual rules for relationships that we have learned...apply to "normal, healthy relationships...and, work pretty well. But, addiction and abuse are two things that turn those "rules" topsy -turvy.
There is a big difference between being supportive to a person going through a rigorous academic training.....and a person trying to enter into genuine recovery.
I can bet that he isn't feeling "guilty" for all that you contributed to the marriage.
Your being there for every mile of his journey ...or not....will not make any difference in the final result. If he is to enter true and life lasting recovery, depends on whether he wants it bad enough to keep his sobriety as the first priority ….no matter what ever happens, in his life.
People don't become alcoholics because their wife (0r husband)….were not "good enough". There are as many excuses given for alcoholism as there are different snowflakes. Don't fall for that.
If you could have made him sober...you already would have....You have been there all along...and he is an alcoholic.
His disease is not about you....
The 3 Cs.....
You didn't Cause it; You cant Cure it; and you Can't fix it.....
It is a fools errand to ask an alcoholic questions that they don't even know the answer to, themselves. He can't tell you why he drinks....except for the internally driven compulsion to do so. It is not like it is a choice of "talking to you" or drinking.
You can't be his therapist...and "therapy" him out of it.
That is another one of those "rules" that doesn't work in addictive relationships.
LOL...You will need to learn that you have to remove your "helper" hat, on this one.
If you were to read "The Alcoholic Brain" by Michael Kuhar….you will bein to understand the "why" of some of your questions. (after you pass your boards...lol)…..
Helpful hint***Alanon doesn't require any kind of appointment...you just show up,,,,,and they will welcome you with open arms.....
one more thought...What he wants and what he needs may two very different things....Same thing goes for you....what you want to give and what he needs may be very different things.....
the usual rules for relationships that we have learned...apply to "normal, healthy relationships...and, work pretty well. But, addiction and abuse are two things that turn those "rules" topsy -turvy.
There is a big difference between being supportive to a person going through a rigorous academic training.....and a person trying to enter into genuine recovery.
I can bet that he isn't feeling "guilty" for all that you contributed to the marriage.
Your being there for every mile of his journey ...or not....will not make any difference in the final result. If he is to enter true and life lasting recovery, depends on whether he wants it bad enough to keep his sobriety as the first priority ….no matter what ever happens, in his life.
People don't become alcoholics because their wife (0r husband)….were not "good enough". There are as many excuses given for alcoholism as there are different snowflakes. Don't fall for that.
If you could have made him sober...you already would have....You have been there all along...and he is an alcoholic.
His disease is not about you....
The 3 Cs.....
You didn't Cause it; You cant Cure it; and you Can't fix it.....
It is a fools errand to ask an alcoholic questions that they don't even know the answer to, themselves. He can't tell you why he drinks....except for the internally driven compulsion to do so. It is not like it is a choice of "talking to you" or drinking.
You can't be his therapist...and "therapy" him out of it.
That is another one of those "rules" that doesn't work in addictive relationships.
LOL...You will need to learn that you have to remove your "helper" hat, on this one.
If you were to read "The Alcoholic Brain" by Michael Kuhar….you will bein to understand the "why" of some of your questions. (after you pass your boards...lol)…..
Helpful hint***Alanon doesn't require any kind of appointment...you just show up,,,,,and they will welcome you with open arms.....
one more thought...What he wants and what he needs may two very different things....Same thing goes for you....what you want to give and what he needs may be very different things.....
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clarity...suki is 1000 per cent right.
be careful not to get the cart before the horse. If the marriage is to be put back together....the alcoholism has to be dealt with first.....there is a good reason that marriage counselors will not even see a couple if they know that addiction is part of the picture...until the addiction has been addressed.
Even then, it takes a lot of time, and there are no gurantees….
be careful not to get the cart before the horse. If the marriage is to be put back together....the alcoholism has to be dealt with first.....there is a good reason that marriage counselors will not even see a couple if they know that addiction is part of the picture...until the addiction has been addressed.
Even then, it takes a lot of time, and there are no gurantees….
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Clarity
When my husband's drinking was at its worst, the LAST thing I wanted was for his family and my family to know how bad things were. When I finally disclosed with both it was my salvation. I don't know how your and his family would handle it, but our family rallied around us and my burden was lightened. My husband was angry with me at first, but that faded fast as he leaned on them as well. BOTH sides of the family wanted to know what I wanted in terms of staying together or separating. All members promised to support me through what I thought I needed for myself. Your family might surprise you.
When my husband's drinking was at its worst, the LAST thing I wanted was for his family and my family to know how bad things were. When I finally disclosed with both it was my salvation. I don't know how your and his family would handle it, but our family rallied around us and my burden was lightened. My husband was angry with me at first, but that faded fast as he leaned on them as well. BOTH sides of the family wanted to know what I wanted in terms of staying together or separating. All members promised to support me through what I thought I needed for myself. Your family might surprise you.
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Thank you so much dandylion and suki. I needed to hear that. I went to a couple of Al-Anon meetings already. And am studying here on SR. LOL about passing boards first. I found a condo I can rent for a week or two, near my hometown, that may be affordable and let him work on him while I work on me (and study). The only issue may be having our son with ME instead of him. But that's the only reasonable solution; we can arrange a visit midweek or something, or at 1 week if I go for two weeks. One day at a time. Exhale. Okay.
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I just want to second Alanon (and good that you've started, now just keep on going, reading and participating--you'll get out of it what you put into it) and definitely to second the 3 C's.
This is NOT about you and what you did or didn't do to "make" him drink. I have been over that road many times myself, even occasionally going there long after I really did know better. What it boils down to, as others have said, is that he drinks b/c he is an alcoholic, not b/c you weren't some kind of saint. HE certainly isn't a saint, but have YOU taken up drinking to deal with all the stress in YOUR life? No? I thought not...
We all have struggles in life, and we all have choices in how to deal with them. Anyone who says they "have to drink" to deal with stress, with a rough childhood, with a recent tragedy, with bad memories, with hangnails or a stubbed toe, is ignoring the fact that many--actually, MOST--people DO NOT turn to alcohol when life gets rough. There are many, many other ways to handle those problems, and pretty much ANY of them will work better than drinking.
I think that the sooner you begin to truly believe that you had no hand in making him what he is, the better off you will be. He is an adult. His own actions put him where he is now, not anything you did. My XAH and I are 3 years divorced, and guess what? He's still drinking, even though I am not really a part of his life any more. Guess it really WASN'T me that caused it, even though one of the reasons I'd been given for his drinking was that "it was his one little bit of joy in life."
This is NOT about you and what you did or didn't do to "make" him drink. I have been over that road many times myself, even occasionally going there long after I really did know better. What it boils down to, as others have said, is that he drinks b/c he is an alcoholic, not b/c you weren't some kind of saint. HE certainly isn't a saint, but have YOU taken up drinking to deal with all the stress in YOUR life? No? I thought not...
We all have struggles in life, and we all have choices in how to deal with them. Anyone who says they "have to drink" to deal with stress, with a rough childhood, with a recent tragedy, with bad memories, with hangnails or a stubbed toe, is ignoring the fact that many--actually, MOST--people DO NOT turn to alcohol when life gets rough. There are many, many other ways to handle those problems, and pretty much ANY of them will work better than drinking.
I think that the sooner you begin to truly believe that you had no hand in making him what he is, the better off you will be. He is an adult. His own actions put him where he is now, not anything you did. My XAH and I are 3 years divorced, and guess what? He's still drinking, even though I am not really a part of his life any more. Guess it really WASN'T me that caused it, even though one of the reasons I'd been given for his drinking was that "it was his one little bit of joy in life."
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Originally Posted by clarity888
He has been a great support to me while I was in school, and I feel extremely guilty. I did always ask him to go do something for himself, but he'd refuse. I admit I'm not a great wife in many ways.
It's not easy when there is so much to take care of in a family but that is a reality of a family, especially with small children.
As has been said, you didn't cause his alcoholism and you didn't prod it along either. I think it's an important thing to remember - you didn't prod it along. His alcoholism is not about you.
As for telling your family, if you think they will be supportive or even understanding, I would absolutely share this with them.
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