My codependent friend is going further downhill :-(
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My codependent friend is going further downhill :-(
I've posted hints and bits and pieces of it in various posts on the forum but I haven't gotten into it. My friend just can't escape helping her XAH...she knows she's hurting him by helping but can't seem to get out of the way (she's continuously stopping him from having consequences at her own expense...and the expense is large). She's lost her health (literally she is emotionally and physically not doing well), she lost her finances (eviction and bankruptcy), he stole from her, she covered to police for him and up until now she's kept her job since it's with family. Now the job may be going and she may have to go on disability. Oh and he continually cheated on her on places like Craig's list and dating sites - over and over and over. The only thing that's gone right is she managed to divorce him (her family that's employing her may have had to threaten her job to get that to happen I'm not sure). But she's still attached despite being divorced her entire life is about focusing on him. She's helping him to the point she can't even live her own life. He's the type of A in my opinion with no bottom, he hotel hops to live, lost his son, steals, breaks the law and is in general mean and abusive.
This is tearing me apart almost as bad as I was torn apart when I was with my XRAH and he was actively drinking. I know the answer - I can't help her, she has to want to help herself. But it's heartbreaking seeing someone who was once vibrant, active and doing well career wise taking this turn. It's almost harder than it was watching my EXH go downhill drinking because at least I knew why that was happening..the alcohol. She's been to Alanon and the straightforwardness and tough love just pushed her away...Coda worked for a while but then didn't .
I know no one can help me since I can't help her but I was wondering if anyone else had experienced this......for me watching her fall is just so much harder I don't know why.
This is tearing me apart almost as bad as I was torn apart when I was with my XRAH and he was actively drinking. I know the answer - I can't help her, she has to want to help herself. But it's heartbreaking seeing someone who was once vibrant, active and doing well career wise taking this turn. It's almost harder than it was watching my EXH go downhill drinking because at least I knew why that was happening..the alcohol. She's been to Alanon and the straightforwardness and tough love just pushed her away...Coda worked for a while but then didn't .
I know no one can help me since I can't help her but I was wondering if anyone else had experienced this......for me watching her fall is just so much harder I don't know why.
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I had to walk away from a 25 year friendship for pretty much the same kind of things.
First I tried, "Hey, I can't really be around you when you're like this, it makes me really sad." Then I would stay away from her for a few months and then try to re-engage...but it always came back to her depression and hopelessness and I just couldn't deal any more.
It was hard, but I'm better off for having done it.
I talked to her five years after we split up, and within 15 minutes the conversation turned right back into deja vu all over again. I can't/won't go back.
First I tried, "Hey, I can't really be around you when you're like this, it makes me really sad." Then I would stay away from her for a few months and then try to re-engage...but it always came back to her depression and hopelessness and I just couldn't deal any more.
It was hard, but I'm better off for having done it.
I talked to her five years after we split up, and within 15 minutes the conversation turned right back into deja vu all over again. I can't/won't go back.
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Originally Posted by biminiblue 
I talked to her five years after we split up, and within 15 minutes the conversation turned right back into deja vu all over again. I can't/won't go back.
The most frustrating part is she gets it...she's 15 years sober herself and she knows she needs to get out of his way and that she's addicted to him...she just for whatever reason can't stop. Incredibly hard to watch.
I may have to make some decisions soon similar to what you did but gosh I so don't want to do that.
Life is good
Join Date: Apr 2018
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Where I put my focus determines what direction my own recovery goes.
I've finally started feeling really good often enough that my body, brain and soul keeps releasing and letting go of layers of stress, tension and anxiety that had become both familiar and toxic for me.
Being able to recognize the familiar and toxic is a good step. It often takes seeing this clearly in order to choose something different and healthier for ourselves.
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...-journeys.html (Recovery journeys)
I've finally started feeling really good often enough that my body, brain and soul keeps releasing and letting go of layers of stress, tension and anxiety that had become both familiar and toxic for me.
Being able to recognize the familiar and toxic is a good step. It often takes seeing this clearly in order to choose something different and healthier for ourselves.
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...-journeys.html (Recovery journeys)
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I won't go into details, but my stepdaughter's relationship with her husband concerns me in a similar way. Nothing I can do but listen when she wants to talk. Yes, it is painful. Yes, there have been times when I would like to broom his a** to the curb ('scuse my language).
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Aeryn, about 10 months ago stopped engaging with my very best friend of 50+years. Sad, to say, I am ok with my decision. Her life choices and actions were consuming me. Here I am worrying , offering support, suggesting healthy alternatives, yet she refuses to do one damn thing to help herself.
Being part of their crazy was exhausting. She had him arrested for domestic violence, a no contact order was issued, YET she continued allow him back into the home. It was as if she enjoyed the “ meeting in secret” I believe it added some zest to a toxic situation.
The night she had him arrested, he came home late, very drunk, was going to sleep on the couch, and she got out of bed, got in his face and he pushed her away. She had the Choice to just let him sleep it off, this wasn’t her first rodeo,she wanted the court system to keep him sober, on a leash and order him to AA. Very sad to expect the judicial system do what you do not have the guts to do for yourself. So he gets 6 months probation, and after 6 months we are right back at lather, rinse , repeat.
This domestic incident happened probably 5 years ago, and everyday she shared her crisis of the day with him. I accepted this is what she would wake up and choose everyday. So 10 months ago we are private messaging back and forth, she is telling me what a big a-hole he is, shares how much she hates him, swears she made an appointment with a divorce attorney, she is done. At the same time we are having this conversation, she posts on her FB page this picture of him and the dogs, and the caption reads, “ BEST DOG DADDY EVER! WE LOVE YOU!”
That is when I knew I was done. When you are done, you will be done. We cannot help anyone who will NOT help themselves. If nothing changes, nothing changes.
Being part of their crazy was exhausting. She had him arrested for domestic violence, a no contact order was issued, YET she continued allow him back into the home. It was as if she enjoyed the “ meeting in secret” I believe it added some zest to a toxic situation.
The night she had him arrested, he came home late, very drunk, was going to sleep on the couch, and she got out of bed, got in his face and he pushed her away. She had the Choice to just let him sleep it off, this wasn’t her first rodeo,she wanted the court system to keep him sober, on a leash and order him to AA. Very sad to expect the judicial system do what you do not have the guts to do for yourself. So he gets 6 months probation, and after 6 months we are right back at lather, rinse , repeat.
This domestic incident happened probably 5 years ago, and everyday she shared her crisis of the day with him. I accepted this is what she would wake up and choose everyday. So 10 months ago we are private messaging back and forth, she is telling me what a big a-hole he is, shares how much she hates him, swears she made an appointment with a divorce attorney, she is done. At the same time we are having this conversation, she posts on her FB page this picture of him and the dogs, and the caption reads, “ BEST DOG DADDY EVER! WE LOVE YOU!”
That is when I knew I was done. When you are done, you will be done. We cannot help anyone who will NOT help themselves. If nothing changes, nothing changes.
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Hi Aeryn. Unfortunately I very much know what it is like to love people who are painfully codependent. It hurts so much to witness. It's triggering for me. It makes my own codependency tendencies flare up and I can't live with those feelings anymore. I've had to distance myself from a few life long friends because of this.
My biggest stumbling block is my mother. She was raised by a mentally unwell mother (who expected her to never leave home and look after her for the rest of her life), she was married to my alcoholic father for 50 years (until he died as a result of his poor life choices), and the only time my 44year old , mentally ill, substance abusing brother hasn't lived with her was during a brief stint in prison & halfway house and maybe a year when he lived with the mother of his child which was when he was 19-22years old. She dragged him home when that relationship imploded and hasn't let go since. I can't even explain how toxic of a relationship they have. It's just awful. There is no dignity in it at all, for either of them, and they both have so much resentment... yet they continue living their lives horribly enmeshed.
My mother used to call me, sobbing so hard I couldn't understand what she was saying other then she was on her way to my house. I got used to her barreling through the door, tears spraying from her eyes coming straight at me to be held like a child. She would literally manage to choke out the words "I'm coming over to cry in your arms" during the afore mentioned phone calls. And she did, many times. When I tried to help I would get screamed at that he was "HER CHILD!!!!" and there was no way in "heck" she was going to listen to any of my suggestions.
I had to stop being available to her. I got to the point I realized I was being codependent to her codependency, just as badly as I had been to my AXH's alcoholism. I was exhausted trying to "help" her when she didn't actually want me to help. She wanted me to enable. She wanted me to give her my energy propping her back up so that she could rush back into the lion's den. Rinse, repeat, endlessly. It was exhausting and so very unhealthy, for both of us. It wasn't easy, I love my mum very much, but I had to put a stop to it.
I have since moved 3K miles away which makes avoiding their drama a whole lot easier. Of course this isn't practical for everyone, but I certainly am appreciating the reprieve. She doesn't bother filling me in on his shenanigans now when we skype, thank goodness.
So yes, I know how hard it is to watch people self destruct to their addictions. All kinds of them, including codependence. It's heartbreaking.
Hang in there Aeryn. Hugs.
My biggest stumbling block is my mother. She was raised by a mentally unwell mother (who expected her to never leave home and look after her for the rest of her life), she was married to my alcoholic father for 50 years (until he died as a result of his poor life choices), and the only time my 44year old , mentally ill, substance abusing brother hasn't lived with her was during a brief stint in prison & halfway house and maybe a year when he lived with the mother of his child which was when he was 19-22years old. She dragged him home when that relationship imploded and hasn't let go since. I can't even explain how toxic of a relationship they have. It's just awful. There is no dignity in it at all, for either of them, and they both have so much resentment... yet they continue living their lives horribly enmeshed.
My mother used to call me, sobbing so hard I couldn't understand what she was saying other then she was on her way to my house. I got used to her barreling through the door, tears spraying from her eyes coming straight at me to be held like a child. She would literally manage to choke out the words "I'm coming over to cry in your arms" during the afore mentioned phone calls. And she did, many times. When I tried to help I would get screamed at that he was "HER CHILD!!!!" and there was no way in "heck" she was going to listen to any of my suggestions.
I had to stop being available to her. I got to the point I realized I was being codependent to her codependency, just as badly as I had been to my AXH's alcoholism. I was exhausted trying to "help" her when she didn't actually want me to help. She wanted me to enable. She wanted me to give her my energy propping her back up so that she could rush back into the lion's den. Rinse, repeat, endlessly. It was exhausting and so very unhealthy, for both of us. It wasn't easy, I love my mum very much, but I had to put a stop to it.
I have since moved 3K miles away which makes avoiding their drama a whole lot easier. Of course this isn't practical for everyone, but I certainly am appreciating the reprieve. She doesn't bother filling me in on his shenanigans now when we skype, thank goodness.
So yes, I know how hard it is to watch people self destruct to their addictions. All kinds of them, including codependence. It's heartbreaking.
Hang in there Aeryn. Hugs.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Codependent to her codependency oh smallbutmighty
Unfortunately I believe this is what it is.
Let go or be dragged, the road rash will eventually become infected, which leads to more complications, seems it shouldn’t be so difficult to take care of ourselves first, and yet it is.
Unfortunately I believe this is what it is.
Let go or be dragged, the road rash will eventually become infected, which leads to more complications, seems it shouldn’t be so difficult to take care of ourselves first, and yet it is.
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Originally Posted by Aeryn
Oh yes the repeated conversation...with my situation it's all about him what he's done now and if he's changed. I want to shout NO he hasn't and NO he never will. It's like Groundhog day. I mean I'll be honest this guy is one of the worst individuals I've ever met....I mean the things he's done are so disgusting and dehumanizing towards her but that doesn't bother me as much as the fact that she allows herself to be treated that way.
The most frustrating part is she gets it...she's 15 years sober herself and she knows she needs to get out of his way and that she's addicted to him...she just for whatever reason can't stop. Incredibly hard to watch.
I may have to make some decisions soon similar to what you did but gosh I so don't want to do that.
The most frustrating part is she gets it...she's 15 years sober herself and she knows she needs to get out of his way and that she's addicted to him...she just for whatever reason can't stop. Incredibly hard to watch.
I may have to make some decisions soon similar to what you did but gosh I so don't want to do that.
It's her addiction. It's selfish, like all addictions are. ScottfromWI said in another thread, "Addiction and depression are selfish." So true. They can't even see that their addiction is affecting everyone around them.
Like a drinker finds drinking buddies to enable them, they will gravitate to people who let them go on and on. My friend in the above used to have five different major complaints. ALL of which she could have done something about other than talk about them incessantly.
"Venting," has become a U.S. word that really means, "Complaining."
As Maya Angelou so succinctly put it, "Don't complain."
Why? Because that isn't a solution, it keeps people in their pain, and it pushes others away.
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Originally Posted by Aeryn
I've posted hints and bits and pieces of it in various posts on the forum but I haven't gotten into it. My friend just can't escape helping her XAH...she knows she's hurting him by helping but can't seem to get out of the way (she's continuously stopping him from having consequences at her own expense...and the expense is large). She's lost her health (literally she is emotionally and physically not doing well), she lost her finances (eviction and bankruptcy), he stole from her, she covered to police for him and up until now she's kept her job since it's with family. Now the job may be going and she may have to go on disability. Oh and he continually cheated on her on places like Craig's list and dating sites - over and over and over. The only thing that's gone right is she managed to divorce him (her family that's employing her may have had to threaten her job to get that to happen I'm not sure). But she's still attached despite being divorced her entire life is about focusing on him. She's helping him to the point she can't even live her own life. He's the type of A in my opinion with no bottom, he hotel hops to live, lost his son, steals, breaks the law and is in general mean and abusive.
This is tearing me apart almost as bad as I was torn apart when I was with my XRAH and he was actively drinking. I know the answer - I can't help her, she has to want to help herself. But it's heartbreaking seeing someone who was once vibrant, active and doing well career wise taking this turn. It's almost harder than it was watching my EXH go downhill drinking because at least I knew why that was happening..the alcohol. She's been to Alanon and the straightforwardness and tough love just pushed her away...Coda worked for a while but then didn't .
I know no one can help me since I can't help her but I was wondering if anyone else had experienced this......for me watching her fall is just so much harder I don't know why.
This is tearing me apart almost as bad as I was torn apart when I was with my XRAH and he was actively drinking. I know the answer - I can't help her, she has to want to help herself. But it's heartbreaking seeing someone who was once vibrant, active and doing well career wise taking this turn. It's almost harder than it was watching my EXH go downhill drinking because at least I knew why that was happening..the alcohol. She's been to Alanon and the straightforwardness and tough love just pushed her away...Coda worked for a while but then didn't .
I know no one can help me since I can't help her but I was wondering if anyone else had experienced this......for me watching her fall is just so much harder I don't know why.
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Originally Posted by teatreeoil007
Thanks so much for posting this! A grim reminder of how a co-dependent person can be just as sick as the addict. This must be heartbreaking to witness in someone you care about so much. I'm sorry. It must really be tugging at your heart.
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Originally Posted by teatreeoil007
A grim reminder of how a co-dependent person can be just as sick as the addict. This must be heartbreaking to witness in someone you care about so much. I'm sorry. It must really be tugging at your heart.
I cut off another friend recently because I realized she was using me to have someone around while she tried to "catch a man". Everything was always about her and her getting a man....funny thing is she always drove them all off but I digress....hers was a relationship addiction. Well when the surrogate got pregnant with my daughter that friend wasn't happy for me and didn't support me, she didn't say congratulations, couldn't be bothered to like any posts about my daughter on Facebook, and didn't bother showing up for the baby shower. Not one congratulations when my daughter was born couldn't even bother to click like on any posts of her. So I get it..... that friend I cut off I was done with her...just done. I do not miss her one bit.
This friend however, well I was hoping not to have to cut off only because despite her codie ways she did support me regarding my daughter and she does take the time to listen to things going on in my life and not just talk about hers. So I guess I until now have sort of thought of me listening to her XAH issues was just me giving her an ear even though I couldn't help her. I've stayed fairly detached until now this latest of losing her job just really hit me. With the baby I don't have much time to talk to her anyway just once or twice a month but yes it's starting to get to me. But I agree if it starts interfering in my life I may have to let this friendship go to...this one will be harder than the first because the first well it was just clear to me how selfish that girl was and how she didn't care about me...this one...well it's more blurry.
I'm starting to think I may have to change a lot of the friends in my life and not just because I'm in recovery for codependency but also because I now have a baby and my priorities are totally different....I've changed. And well I can do better.....
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Originally Posted by marie1960
This domestic incident happened probably 5 years ago, and everyday she shared her crisis of the day with him. I accepted this is what she would wake up and choose everyday. So 10 months ago we are private messaging back and forth, she is telling me what a big a-hole he is, shares how much she hates him, swears she made an appointment with a divorce attorney, she is done. At the same time we are having this conversation, she posts on her FB page this picture of him and the dogs, and the caption reads, “ BEST DOG DADDY EVER! WE LOVE YOU!”
That is when I knew I was done. When you are done, you will be done. We cannot help anyone who will NOT help themselves. If nothing changes, nothing changes.
That is when I knew I was done. When you are done, you will be done. We cannot help anyone who will NOT help themselves. If nothing changes, nothing changes.
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I had to let go of a number of relationships but one in particular reminds me of what you write.
There was an incident between her and my ExAH. I am not saying she should not have been upset about it (she should have). The two of them were so upset at each other and in their own addictions that they had no room for my feelings. It took me a long time to realize that.
I spent years trying to make that situation better. Finally I got well enough that I let it go, both of the relationships and trying to fix it.
After a number of years we are back in touch but it is very, very different and I am much more comfortable with it. It is on my terms.
For me it took a while to sort through all these relationship pieces and I knew if I was struggling with friendships around this I was going to struggle with intimate relationships (and it was why I decided to take a break). I am glad I did.
That did not make the change easy. It did make things less stressful in the long-run though.
There was an incident between her and my ExAH. I am not saying she should not have been upset about it (she should have). The two of them were so upset at each other and in their own addictions that they had no room for my feelings. It took me a long time to realize that.
I spent years trying to make that situation better. Finally I got well enough that I let it go, both of the relationships and trying to fix it.
After a number of years we are back in touch but it is very, very different and I am much more comfortable with it. It is on my terms.
For me it took a while to sort through all these relationship pieces and I knew if I was struggling with friendships around this I was going to struggle with intimate relationships (and it was why I decided to take a break). I am glad I did.
That did not make the change easy. It did make things less stressful in the long-run though.
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You are right there are so many different types of addictions, not just drugs or alcohol...I think some people forget that truth. These days we have something called social media addiction, facebook addiction and internet addiction and computer game addiction, smart phone addiction, etc.
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