Someone talk some sense into me ...
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Someone talk some sense into me ...
So last night I went out with my friend (who is my AXBF's sister) and their other brother. It was supposed to just be a girls' night, but she brought him along at the last minute. We had a great time and nobody really talked about my recent breakup too much, so that was good. I've been doing really well the last week or so (it's been almost 4 weeks since the breakup), but I went to bed sad and woke up sad missing my ex. It was so weird to be out with them without him, and it reopened the wound. Not to mention the fact that I started second guessing that my ex was an alcoholic again. Because while we were out last night, his brother had 9 drinks in a 4 hour time frame and didn't seem intoxicated AT ALL (I was not drinking so I know he seemed sober). So now I'm thinking, "Gee, maybe ex isn't an alcoholic and they just have a genetic high tolerance! Maybe there isn't an issue here at all and I've just been nit-picking his drinking habits." It seemed like a lot of alcohol to me, but maybe I'm the weird one since I don't drink much?!
Anyone with experience have an opinion on any of this?
Anyone with experience have an opinion on any of this?
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Not to mention the fact that I started second guessing that my ex was an alcoholic again. Because while we were out last night, his brother had 9 drinks in a 4 hour time frame and didn't seem intoxicated AT ALL (I was not drinking so I know he seemed sober). So now I'm thinking, "Gee, maybe ex isn't an alcoholic and they just have a genetic high tolerance!
Or more likely the brother is an alcoholic too. It sounds like it and it does seem to run in families. My exah mother, sisters and brother were all alcoholics and some of their children. One died in his early 30. My exah sister's first husband also died of alcoholism. I do not think you are wrong.
Or more likely the brother is an alcoholic too. It sounds like it and it does seem to run in families. My exah mother, sisters and brother were all alcoholics and some of their children. One died in his early 30. My exah sister's first husband also died of alcoholism. I do not think you are wrong.
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I have experience with drinking if that's what you mean!
I have had 9 drinks and I've seen many drink that much. In ALL cases they are drunk. Larger people, smaller people, men, women, alcoholics, non-alcoholics - drunk.
9 drinks in 4 hours is a lot for anyone.
The fact that he can drink that much and seem sober just indicates he has a high tolerance. Now if that is genetic, well, that seems unlikely but I'm not an alcohol tolerance expert.
It probably means he drinks a lot regularly and that is why his tolerance is so high. As you already know, with any drug, you must increase the dose to get the same effect once you build a tolerance. To have that high a tolerance to alcohol you would have to be drinking a lot.
Also, if he is drinking a lot regularly, he is possibly well practiced at appearing "normal" to others. You've read the stories of alcoholics who drink in the car and at work and at functions and go undetected as having a buzz, that's practice.
It almost seems like you have a pre-conceived idea of what an alcoholic is? I'm not a mental health expert but there are key signs of alcoholism and based on your other posts, there isn't much question. For instance you posted:
None of this means anything in terms of alcoholism. Some alcoholics have a steel will and can abstain for periods, some don't. They are people, not robots, they have different attributes and personalities like the rest of us.
I have had 9 drinks and I've seen many drink that much. In ALL cases they are drunk. Larger people, smaller people, men, women, alcoholics, non-alcoholics - drunk.
9 drinks in 4 hours is a lot for anyone.
The fact that he can drink that much and seem sober just indicates he has a high tolerance. Now if that is genetic, well, that seems unlikely but I'm not an alcohol tolerance expert.
It probably means he drinks a lot regularly and that is why his tolerance is so high. As you already know, with any drug, you must increase the dose to get the same effect once you build a tolerance. To have that high a tolerance to alcohol you would have to be drinking a lot.
Also, if he is drinking a lot regularly, he is possibly well practiced at appearing "normal" to others. You've read the stories of alcoholics who drink in the car and at work and at functions and go undetected as having a buzz, that's practice.
It almost seems like you have a pre-conceived idea of what an alcoholic is? I'm not a mental health expert but there are key signs of alcoholism and based on your other posts, there isn't much question. For instance you posted:
P.S. He never drinks before 4 or 5pm (unless our to lunch at a restaurant) and he doesn’t get violent or have legal troubles and he’s been very successful in his career
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Originally Posted by Ladybird579 
Not to mention the fact that I started second guessing that my ex was an alcoholic again. Because while we were out last night, his brother had 9 drinks in a 4 hour time frame and didn't seem intoxicated AT ALL (I was not drinking so I know he seemed sober). So now I'm thinking, "Gee, maybe ex isn't an alcoholic and they just have a genetic high tolerance!
Or more likely the brother is an alcoholic too. It sounds like it and it does seem to run in families. My exah mother, sisters and brother were all alcoholics and some of their children. One died in his early 30. My exah sister's first husband also died of alcoholism. I do not think you are wrong.
Or more likely the brother is an alcoholic too. It sounds like it and it does seem to run in families. My exah mother, sisters and brother were all alcoholics and some of their children. One died in his early 30. My exah sister's first husband also died of alcoholism. I do not think you are wrong.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
I have experience with drinking if that's what you mean!
I have had 9 drinks and I've seen many drink that much. In ALL cases they are drunk. Larger people, smaller people, men, women, alcoholics, non-alcoholics - drunk.
9 drinks in 4 hours is a lot for anyone.
The fact that he can drink that much and seem sober just indicates he has a high tolerance. Now if that is genetic, well, that seems unlikely but I'm not an alcohol tolerance expert.
It probably means he drinks a lot regularly and that is why his tolerance is so high. As you already know, with any drug, you must increase the dose to get the same effect once you build a tolerance. To have that high a tolerance to alcohol you would have to be drinking a lot.
Also, if he is drinking a lot regularly, he is possibly well practiced at appearing "normal" to others. You've read the stories of alcoholics who drink in the car and at work and at functions and go undetected as having a buzz, that's practice.
It almost seems like you have a pre-conceived idea of what an alcoholic is? I'm not a mental health expert but there are key signs of alcoholism and based on your other posts, there isn't much question. For instance you posted:
None of this means anything in terms of alcoholism. Some alcoholics have a steel will and can abstain for periods, some don't. They are people, not robots, they have different attributes and personalities like the rest of us.
I have had 9 drinks and I've seen many drink that much. In ALL cases they are drunk. Larger people, smaller people, men, women, alcoholics, non-alcoholics - drunk.
9 drinks in 4 hours is a lot for anyone.
The fact that he can drink that much and seem sober just indicates he has a high tolerance. Now if that is genetic, well, that seems unlikely but I'm not an alcohol tolerance expert.
It probably means he drinks a lot regularly and that is why his tolerance is so high. As you already know, with any drug, you must increase the dose to get the same effect once you build a tolerance. To have that high a tolerance to alcohol you would have to be drinking a lot.
Also, if he is drinking a lot regularly, he is possibly well practiced at appearing "normal" to others. You've read the stories of alcoholics who drink in the car and at work and at functions and go undetected as having a buzz, that's practice.
It almost seems like you have a pre-conceived idea of what an alcoholic is? I'm not a mental health expert but there are key signs of alcoholism and based on your other posts, there isn't much question. For instance you posted:
None of this means anything in terms of alcoholism. Some alcoholics have a steel will and can abstain for periods, some don't. They are people, not robots, they have different attributes and personalities like the rest of us.
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Originally Posted by Looking4Clues
Thanks, Trailmix. I must admit prior to coming onto SR I did have preconceived notions of alcoholism. I've been learning more, and this forum has been such a great resource for me. I think last night while I was out/when I got home, I had the question of whether or not my ex and his family are just "hard drinkers" or actual alcoholics. Kind of how many people drink heavily in college and eventually outgrow the habit. I wondered if maybe my ex might just drink a lot because it's a family culture thing, which then led to the thought that if I had stayed and tried to work it out, maybe he would have eventually grown out of the heavy drinking ...
Your ex sounds like a typical alcoholic. Thinking that he comes from a family of "high tolerance" drinkers, in my opinion, is just wishful thinking.
He said he wanted to do his own thing, which you know is drinking. He didn't mean he wanted to go parasailing or take a class in engineering, nope, he wants to party. Now, that's ok, he is a grown man and he can party all day and night if that is what he chooses.
Thing is, he can't do that WITH you. You don't want that lifestyle.
Therein is the conflict. Now, if he wasn't an alcoholic - who knows, the fact is, he is and you can't change that (neither can he actually but he can choose recovery which he has not yet).
I have known alcoholics who drank all their lives, not everyone gets sober, not everyone chooses that. We all talk about recovery so that sometimes it sounds like a given. It's not. No amount of love or care or cajoling or arguing or yelling will change that. It has to come from them and while it sounds nice to think they would throw down the cans and bottles for love, it's a rarity.
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I met my stbxah 26yrs ago. He was an alcoholic then and still is now. He’s been a dry drunk, he is a high functioning alcoholic but he’s an alcoholic. Ask yourself if you’re prepared to come second to alcohol, if your answer is no then stay away. There’s nothing you can do or say to change any alcoholic, only they can change themselves. Moments like you’re having are a normal part of letting go. Please try to remember that you must put your needs first, he’s already shown you that he’s put his needs before yours. I don’t like saying that and I know how it feels to realize that alcohol comes before you.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
Looking, I'm going to give you my opinion and I so hope it doesn't sound harsh because it's not meant that way.
Your ex sounds like a typical alcoholic. Thinking that he comes from a family of "high tolerance" drinkers, in my opinion, is just wishful thinking.
He said he wanted to do his own thing, which you know is drinking. He didn't mean he wanted to go parasailing or take a class in engineering, nope, he wants to party. Now, that's ok, he is a grown man and he can party all day and night if that is what he chooses.
Thing is, he can't do that WITH you. You don't want that lifestyle.
Therein is the conflict. Now, if he wasn't an alcoholic - who knows, the fact is, he is and you can't change that (neither can he actually but he can choose recovery which he has not yet).
I have known alcoholics who drank all their lives, not everyone gets sober, not everyone chooses that. We all talk about recovery so that sometimes it sounds like a given. It's not. No amount of love or care or cajoling or arguing or yelling will change that. It has to come from them and while it sounds nice to think they would throw down the cans and bottles for love, it's a rarity.
Your ex sounds like a typical alcoholic. Thinking that he comes from a family of "high tolerance" drinkers, in my opinion, is just wishful thinking.
He said he wanted to do his own thing, which you know is drinking. He didn't mean he wanted to go parasailing or take a class in engineering, nope, he wants to party. Now, that's ok, he is a grown man and he can party all day and night if that is what he chooses.
Thing is, he can't do that WITH you. You don't want that lifestyle.
Therein is the conflict. Now, if he wasn't an alcoholic - who knows, the fact is, he is and you can't change that (neither can he actually but he can choose recovery which he has not yet).
I have known alcoholics who drank all their lives, not everyone gets sober, not everyone chooses that. We all talk about recovery so that sometimes it sounds like a given. It's not. No amount of love or care or cajoling or arguing or yelling will change that. It has to come from them and while it sounds nice to think they would throw down the cans and bottles for love, it's a rarity.
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Originally Posted by Lostinthismess
I met my stbxah 26yrs ago. He was an alcoholic then and still is now. He’s been a dry drunk, he is a high functioning alcoholic but he’s an alcoholic. Ask yourself if you’re prepared to come second to alcohol, if your answer is no then stay away. There’s nothing you can do or say to change any alcoholic, only they can change themselves. Moments like you’re having are a normal part of letting go. Please try to remember that you must put your needs first, he’s already shown you that he’s put his needs before yours. I don’t like saying that and I know how it feels to realize that alcohol comes before you.
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Originally Posted by Looking4Clues
You're so right. He is 39 years-old and still just wants to party. Who knows if he'll ever decide to get sober. I almost wonder if it will be that much harder for him if he does eventually because he's surrounded by so many heavy drinkers.
Alcoholics who do find recovery look for ways to support their recovery. If that means changing who they spend time with, that often happens. Not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.
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Looking4clues......instead of focusing on the actual number of drinks....how about focusing on the behaviors that he has demonstrated toward you and others over the timespan...…
Even if he wasn't or isn't and alcoholic (though his drinking does look like it)….the behavior looks to be of a person who is capable and willing to treat others poorly......or, even abusively...…
It is pretty standard for those, on this forum who have been treated badly...and, in some cases, very abusively...to doubt themselves and to begin to minimalize how bad it really was, when faced with leaving the relationship.....To cling to any "good" times and have a certain amnesia for the bad times.....
I sure do hope that you followed up on the recommendations for reading that I gave you, previously.....in one of your earlier threads....
They will help you keep you head in the right place for your own welfare.....
To find your old threads...go to your picture on the left h and side of your posts,, and click on it...then choose "previous threads" from the drop down bar....
That link that I gave you was as follows. There are over 100 articles in our library of excellent articles on alcoholism and how it affects the loved ones. Enough for you to read one every day...lol....https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...c-reading.html (Classic Reading)
.
The book that I suggested..."The Addicted Brain" by Michael Kuhar is the latest research on alcoholism and its effects...with good explanations......you can get a used on amazon.com at a greatly reduced price. That should answer a lot of questions about alcohol.....
Whether he is an alcoholic or doing drugs...or, maybe, both....or is simply an immature self-centered personality....or, has some inherent character defects...or, is some mixture of the above....I think the bottom line is....do you really believe that this will enhance your life...and, do you want this for your husband and father of your children?
I don't think you arrived here, on this forum by accident, and for no reason.
"When you find a turtle on top of a fence post....it didn't get there by accident"...…...
Even if he wasn't or isn't and alcoholic (though his drinking does look like it)….the behavior looks to be of a person who is capable and willing to treat others poorly......or, even abusively...…
It is pretty standard for those, on this forum who have been treated badly...and, in some cases, very abusively...to doubt themselves and to begin to minimalize how bad it really was, when faced with leaving the relationship.....To cling to any "good" times and have a certain amnesia for the bad times.....
I sure do hope that you followed up on the recommendations for reading that I gave you, previously.....in one of your earlier threads....
They will help you keep you head in the right place for your own welfare.....
To find your old threads...go to your picture on the left h and side of your posts,, and click on it...then choose "previous threads" from the drop down bar....
That link that I gave you was as follows. There are over 100 articles in our library of excellent articles on alcoholism and how it affects the loved ones. Enough for you to read one every day...lol....https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...c-reading.html (Classic Reading)
.
The book that I suggested..."The Addicted Brain" by Michael Kuhar is the latest research on alcoholism and its effects...with good explanations......you can get a used on amazon.com at a greatly reduced price. That should answer a lot of questions about alcohol.....
Whether he is an alcoholic or doing drugs...or, maybe, both....or is simply an immature self-centered personality....or, has some inherent character defects...or, is some mixture of the above....I think the bottom line is....do you really believe that this will enhance your life...and, do you want this for your husband and father of your children?
I don't think you arrived here, on this forum by accident, and for no reason.
"When you find a turtle on top of a fence post....it didn't get there by accident"...…...
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Originally Posted by Looking4Clues
You're so right. He is 39 years-old and still just wants to party. Who knows if he'll ever decide to get sober. I almost wonder if it will be that much harder for him if he does eventually because he's surrounded by so many heavy drinkers.
You mentioned:
Most of our fights were over his drinking and he flat out told me that his drinking wouldn't change.
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Looking4clues......instead of focusing on the actual number of drinks....how about focusing on the behaviors that he has demonstrated toward you and others over the timespan...…
Even if he wasn't or isn't and alcoholic (though his drinking does look like it)….the behavior looks to be of a person who is capable and willing to treat others poorly......or, even abusively...…
It is pretty standard for those, on this forum who have been treated badly...and, in some cases, very abusively...to doubt themselves and to begin to minimalize how bad it really was, when faced with leaving the relationship.....To cling to any "good" times and have a certain amnesia for the bad times.....
I sure do hope that you followed up on the recommendations for reading that I gave you, previously.....in one of your earlier threads....
They will help you keep you head in the right place for your own welfare.....
To find your old threads...go to your picture on the left h and side of your posts,, and click on it...then choose "previous threads" from the drop down bar....
That link that I gave you was as follows. There are over 100 articles in our library of excellent articles on alcoholism and how it affects the loved ones. Enough for you to read one every day...lol....https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...c-reading.html (Classic Reading)
.
The book that I suggested..."The Addicted Brain" by Michael Kuhar is the latest research on alcoholism and its effects...with good explanations......you can get a used on amazon.com at a greatly reduced price. That should answer a lot of questions about alcohol.....
Whether he is an alcoholic or doing drugs...or, maybe, both....or is simply an immature self-centered personality....or, has some inherent character defects...or, is some mixture of the above....I think the bottom line is....do you really believe that this will enhance your life...and, do you want this for your husband and father of your children?
I don't think you arrived here, on this forum by accident, and for no reason.
"When you find a turtle on top of a fence post....it didn't get there by accident"...…...
Even if he wasn't or isn't and alcoholic (though his drinking does look like it)….the behavior looks to be of a person who is capable and willing to treat others poorly......or, even abusively...…
It is pretty standard for those, on this forum who have been treated badly...and, in some cases, very abusively...to doubt themselves and to begin to minimalize how bad it really was, when faced with leaving the relationship.....To cling to any "good" times and have a certain amnesia for the bad times.....
I sure do hope that you followed up on the recommendations for reading that I gave you, previously.....in one of your earlier threads....
They will help you keep you head in the right place for your own welfare.....
To find your old threads...go to your picture on the left h and side of your posts,, and click on it...then choose "previous threads" from the drop down bar....
That link that I gave you was as follows. There are over 100 articles in our library of excellent articles on alcoholism and how it affects the loved ones. Enough for you to read one every day...lol....https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...c-reading.html (Classic Reading)
.
The book that I suggested..."The Addicted Brain" by Michael Kuhar is the latest research on alcoholism and its effects...with good explanations......you can get a used on amazon.com at a greatly reduced price. That should answer a lot of questions about alcohol.....
Whether he is an alcoholic or doing drugs...or, maybe, both....or is simply an immature self-centered personality....or, has some inherent character defects...or, is some mixture of the above....I think the bottom line is....do you really believe that this will enhance your life...and, do you want this for your husband and father of your children?
I don't think you arrived here, on this forum by accident, and for no reason.
"When you find a turtle on top of a fence post....it didn't get there by accident"...…...
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Originally Posted by trailmix
It would be for most people I would think. IF he eventually decides that.
You mentioned:
How many posts have you read at SR where the alcoholic changes due to the family/partner not being happy with their drinking?
You mentioned:
How many posts have you read at SR where the alcoholic changes due to the family/partner not being happy with their drinking?
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Probably more like lack of self-esteem.
That said, you are in an abnormal situation. Picture yourself amongst these hardened drinkers. Put yourself in front of them, in a chair. They are in their chairs, drinking and laughing and getting drunk all around you.
Is there anything normal about that, I mean in relation to your life? I mean I don't know your life but i'm guessing you get up in the morning and go off to work and grab coffee and are greeted by people with a smile and a good morning?
That's normal.
Trying to fix someone's alcoholism, being surrounded by alcoholics, that's not normal. So your reaction to that:
Is a normal reaction for you, based on your experience(s).
For them, this is their life. They have probably been drinking since they were in their teens or earlier? Ex has no problem with his drinking and I'm going to guess Brother and perhaps other family has no problem his or their drinking either. It is the way it's always been.
If any of them do have a problem with it they may have detached from it long ago.
Dysfunction can be normalized. In fact if you lived in it for a few years, it would probably become normal to you too. If someone drank 10 drinks you wouldn't bat an eyelash at it.
That said, you are in an abnormal situation. Picture yourself amongst these hardened drinkers. Put yourself in front of them, in a chair. They are in their chairs, drinking and laughing and getting drunk all around you.
Is there anything normal about that, I mean in relation to your life? I mean I don't know your life but i'm guessing you get up in the morning and go off to work and grab coffee and are greeted by people with a smile and a good morning?
That's normal.
Trying to fix someone's alcoholism, being surrounded by alcoholics, that's not normal. So your reaction to that:
"Um, does anybody else see this??"
For them, this is their life. They have probably been drinking since they were in their teens or earlier? Ex has no problem with his drinking and I'm going to guess Brother and perhaps other family has no problem his or their drinking either. It is the way it's always been.
If any of them do have a problem with it they may have detached from it long ago.
Dysfunction can be normalized. In fact if you lived in it for a few years, it would probably become normal to you too. If someone drank 10 drinks you wouldn't bat an eyelash at it.
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Originally Posted by Looking4Clues
I don't think that last quote is mine. We never really explicitly discussed his drinking, other than when he tried to do Dry January and failed or he'd make a joke about being an addict here and there. But the arguments we did have were definitely influenced by his drinking for sure
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i'm gonna throw this out....do with it as you wish.....i think going out drinking with my EX alcoholic boyfriend's sister is a little tooooo close to home. and is a set up for you to feel all kinds of things regarding the ex. obviously the addition of the brother didn't "help" - but it's hard to gain any type of clarity and distance if we stay involved with their relatives.............
also think how automatic it was for you to count the number of drinks someone else consumes, and how long it took them to do so.
also think how automatic it was for you to count the number of drinks someone else consumes, and how long it took them to do so.
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
i'm gonna throw this out....do with it as you wish.....i think going out drinking with my EX alcoholic boyfriend's sister is a little tooooo close to home. and is a set up for you to feel all kinds of things regarding the ex. obviously the addition of the brother didn't "help" - but it's hard to gain any type of clarity and distance if we stay involved with their relatives.............
also think how automatic it was for you to count the number of drinks someone else consumes, and how long it took them to do so.
also think how automatic it was for you to count the number of drinks someone else consumes, and how long it took them to do so.
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does SHE drink a lot?
i get that it's tricky when you two were friends before the "relationship" happened.....this might require some discussions and some boundary erecting. hopefully you guys have other ways you can engage besides just "going out" - esp when you already aren't much of a drinker.....that would make going to bars SUPER boring.....imho. there are so many ways you two can have fun times together!!!
i get that it's tricky when you two were friends before the "relationship" happened.....this might require some discussions and some boundary erecting. hopefully you guys have other ways you can engage besides just "going out" - esp when you already aren't much of a drinker.....that would make going to bars SUPER boring.....imho. there are so many ways you two can have fun times together!!!
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