Somewhat O/T: surviving teenage daughter
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Somewhat O/T: surviving teenage daughter
My daughter is a good kid - she really, really is. She can be mature, thoughtful, creative, funny, athletic, academically solid (made the honor roll this year), has friends, etc. She's pretty introverted and does not like talking about feelings but I spoke briefly with her counsellor today who said that at the last session, Kid really "opened up" emotionally and described it as a "real turning point" (I didn't ask about the "opening up" because that's between Kid and counsellor, I just said I was really happy to hear it). She gets a lot of manipulative crap from her alcoholic father (my ex-husband), between the unreliability, the triangulation and the guilt-tripping, so the fact that she's a relatively sane and functioning early-teen at all is pretty remarkable. This is all good.
But she can also be a glaring, eye-rolling, I'm-going-to-let-you-know-I'm-upset-but-I-won't-tell-you-why, passive-aggressive pain. Tonight was the glaring and sighing loudly, with interludes of "I'm FINE. Stop ASKING me!" and "Just leave me ALONE!". I did the whole good-parenting thing of saying that I was concerned about her and she seemed unhappy and she could talk to me about it if she wanted but I'm not going to force her, etc - and the only response was "okay, whatever, goodbye".
I'm always worried that it's something new with her father, because there are very few depths to which he doesn't sink, even though I know that young teen girls with two non-alcoholic parents can also be this way. It's the constant fear that I'm not doing a good enough job, that everything ex said about me - I'm a neglectful parent, Kid doesn't really love me, she's unhappy with me and only wants to be with him - is true.
Part of my problem is that I don't really have a support system - I only have one friend who's a single mom, and her ex is a sane and reasonable co-parent. All my other friends either don't have kids or have "intact" two-parent families, and no one has as much craziness as I get from ex. I do have a partner, but his kids (older than mine) are pretty screwed up, so whenever I raise the issue of feeling bad because I'm struggling a bit with Kid, the response is "well, you think that's bad? Let me tell you about my experience ..." which is really not helpful.
This is mainly just me venting, because I think people in this group are the most likely to understand what I'm experiencing. I'm really trying hard to be the best parent I can, which is probably why the teen misery gets to me so much, even though I know it's developmentally normal and that there are lots of other good signs with Kid.
But she can also be a glaring, eye-rolling, I'm-going-to-let-you-know-I'm-upset-but-I-won't-tell-you-why, passive-aggressive pain. Tonight was the glaring and sighing loudly, with interludes of "I'm FINE. Stop ASKING me!" and "Just leave me ALONE!". I did the whole good-parenting thing of saying that I was concerned about her and she seemed unhappy and she could talk to me about it if she wanted but I'm not going to force her, etc - and the only response was "okay, whatever, goodbye".
I'm always worried that it's something new with her father, because there are very few depths to which he doesn't sink, even though I know that young teen girls with two non-alcoholic parents can also be this way. It's the constant fear that I'm not doing a good enough job, that everything ex said about me - I'm a neglectful parent, Kid doesn't really love me, she's unhappy with me and only wants to be with him - is true.
Part of my problem is that I don't really have a support system - I only have one friend who's a single mom, and her ex is a sane and reasonable co-parent. All my other friends either don't have kids or have "intact" two-parent families, and no one has as much craziness as I get from ex. I do have a partner, but his kids (older than mine) are pretty screwed up, so whenever I raise the issue of feeling bad because I'm struggling a bit with Kid, the response is "well, you think that's bad? Let me tell you about my experience ..." which is really not helpful.
This is mainly just me venting, because I think people in this group are the most likely to understand what I'm experiencing. I'm really trying hard to be the best parent I can, which is probably why the teen misery gets to me so much, even though I know it's developmentally normal and that there are lots of other good signs with Kid.
Well I have never been a parent to a teen Daughter but I was one!
I was not a great teen lol - well to my Mother I probably wasn't. I certainly wasn't the worst for sure, I didn't really get in to trouble or anything but I was rebellious. I just wanted freedom and certainly didn't need anyone meddling in my life!
In hindsight, I was right, I have always said that. No one and nothing was going to stop me and I wasn't discussing ANYTHING. No, no no, nada. I didn't want advice and I figured that is what I would get. As an adult it turned out my Mom only really gave advice when asked.
Now the good part of this story (you didn't think I would leave you hanging there did you!) is that I turned out ok. The things my Mother did say to me, the way she conducted herself. Her grace, wisdom, example - they were not lost on me and I'm absolutely sure they are not lost on your Daughter.
Look at the way she is and her accomplishments. That wasn't created in a vacuum. You are a good influence on her even if you don't see it right now.
As for what your ExAH said - I know it probably replays in your head, as insults tend to but honestly, the sooner you realize it's complete garbage, the better, please remember who the comments came from.
The only thing that kind of stood out to me is the way she speaks to you. That probably hurts your feelings? That kind of dismissive talk can carry through to adulthood and you certainly don't want to keep putting up with it I imagine?
I've read a lot of your posts, sounds to me like you are a good and concerned parent. Relax, you are doing a great job.
I was not a great teen lol - well to my Mother I probably wasn't. I certainly wasn't the worst for sure, I didn't really get in to trouble or anything but I was rebellious. I just wanted freedom and certainly didn't need anyone meddling in my life!
In hindsight, I was right, I have always said that. No one and nothing was going to stop me and I wasn't discussing ANYTHING. No, no no, nada. I didn't want advice and I figured that is what I would get. As an adult it turned out my Mom only really gave advice when asked.
Now the good part of this story (you didn't think I would leave you hanging there did you!) is that I turned out ok. The things my Mother did say to me, the way she conducted herself. Her grace, wisdom, example - they were not lost on me and I'm absolutely sure they are not lost on your Daughter.
Look at the way she is and her accomplishments. That wasn't created in a vacuum. You are a good influence on her even if you don't see it right now.
As for what your ExAH said - I know it probably replays in your head, as insults tend to but honestly, the sooner you realize it's complete garbage, the better, please remember who the comments came from.
The only thing that kind of stood out to me is the way she speaks to you. That probably hurts your feelings? That kind of dismissive talk can carry through to adulthood and you certainly don't want to keep putting up with it I imagine?
I've read a lot of your posts, sounds to me like you are a good and concerned parent. Relax, you are doing a great job.
Sasha.....I'll guess....actually, assume...that your daughter is hyper aware of the minefield of conflict between you and her father.....and that tends to cause lots of anxiety in kids....
Researchers say that it is the fighting between the parents that causes most of the problems in kids' adjustment to divorce....
I think it is good insight that you already know that it is your own self-esteem and self doubt that takes a hit from the demeaning things your husband says about your parenting. I guess that this makes good material for you and your own therapist to work on...…?
I remember well, that my first husband (the father of my 3 kids), used every possible opportunity to tear me down....My solution?...lol....I (learned) gave him no opportunity to do so. I eliminated every point of contact that I could. I only spoke to him on the phone when absolutely necessary and as briefly as h umanly possible. This was before cellphones and internet communication.
I learned not to ask the kids questions about their visits with him. They didn't want to talk about it, in the immediate. ***Anything that they were concerned about, came out in drips and drabs over time, and, usually, spontaneously and at odd moments...
My take away?....As long as they know that they can talk to you...they will do so when they feel safe enough to do it. Hovering and asking questions usually backfires.....
Researchers say that it is the fighting between the parents that causes most of the problems in kids' adjustment to divorce....
I think it is good insight that you already know that it is your own self-esteem and self doubt that takes a hit from the demeaning things your husband says about your parenting. I guess that this makes good material for you and your own therapist to work on...…?
I remember well, that my first husband (the father of my 3 kids), used every possible opportunity to tear me down....My solution?...lol....I (learned) gave him no opportunity to do so. I eliminated every point of contact that I could. I only spoke to him on the phone when absolutely necessary and as briefly as h umanly possible. This was before cellphones and internet communication.
I learned not to ask the kids questions about their visits with him. They didn't want to talk about it, in the immediate. ***Anything that they were concerned about, came out in drips and drabs over time, and, usually, spontaneously and at odd moments...
My take away?....As long as they know that they can talk to you...they will do so when they feel safe enough to do it. Hovering and asking questions usually backfires.....
Sasha I was in the exact same situation. Teenage daughter, AH not living with us.......... lots of anger and I was the only parent so it sure felt like I was the target. I can tell you we are on the other side now and the best thing I did was just listen and not react to anything. My DD learned to trust that I could take whatever she had to say and it has been the best experience although incredibly painful. There will be days when she's mad, hormonal, overwhelmed and just normal teenage stuff, but if you are consistently there and available to listen that will give your DD the greatest gift. I am so thankful that my DD and I went through this because we are so much closer than we were even two years ago. I am her trusted confidant and I am just so grateful that this happened before she left for college. Hang in there, gifts are to be had in this experience as well.
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As the mother and grandmother of 8 girls, I can completely understand where you coming from. Here is what I can share.
Teen age girls can be absolutely mind boggling, one minute they are on top of the world, the next the sky is falling. And the world is ending. I used to drive myself crazy in attempt to problem solve, or offer a working solution to their “immediate crisis” of the day.. Sometimes I would have to make a few phone calls( usually to their father, or grandmother) and by the time I found a viable solution, they had already forgot about it, or moved on to some other drama.
Teen age girls are emotional, lots of hormones in this equation, there is going to be drama, anger, tears, and immaturity. Of course ,there is a huge adjustment period for them when parents separate. We as adults , struggle with these changes on a daily basis, we are all searching for solid ground.
Pay close attention to their actions. Sometimes their words are nothing more than venting and frustration. Often they are tired and hungry, sometimes bored and need extra attention.
One way I found to keep the lines of communication open is I would share a scenario using their friends as an example, I would say I ran into Kathy’s mom, and she shared what happened at softball practice. It’s amazing how they all have thoughts and opinions on matters, will openingly share their feelings on the subject, they just do NOT want to be the one under the microscope, well, until they do, and then they need 100% of your attention..
Sometimes , I would use the “i was reading an article , Help me understand, or I was listening to the words of a song, what do those lyrics, imply or even mean?” If I approached a subject without judgement or a lecture tone in my voice, They would engage ( they would never miss a chance to make sport of old mom). If I simply stated I read an article about huffing, that is so dangerous, don’t ever entertain that, they would have rolled their eyes at me, and one of them Would have grabbed the can of whipped cream out of the frig and pretended to huff it.
Keep those lines of communication open . Just because she doesn’t want to talk today, doesn’t mean she won’t tomorrow, kids will struggle with where their loyalty should be in regard to divorced parents. As parents we have to figure out a way that they feel comfortable enough in not having to choose sides, even when dad is an alcoholic. ( and that just doesn’t seem fair)
I learned years after the fact that the girls never wanted to tell me that they had a nice time with their dad, they thought that would hurt my feelings, or make me angry. That was interesting to learn years later.
Teen age girls can be absolutely mind boggling, one minute they are on top of the world, the next the sky is falling. And the world is ending. I used to drive myself crazy in attempt to problem solve, or offer a working solution to their “immediate crisis” of the day.. Sometimes I would have to make a few phone calls( usually to their father, or grandmother) and by the time I found a viable solution, they had already forgot about it, or moved on to some other drama.
Teen age girls are emotional, lots of hormones in this equation, there is going to be drama, anger, tears, and immaturity. Of course ,there is a huge adjustment period for them when parents separate. We as adults , struggle with these changes on a daily basis, we are all searching for solid ground.
Pay close attention to their actions. Sometimes their words are nothing more than venting and frustration. Often they are tired and hungry, sometimes bored and need extra attention.
One way I found to keep the lines of communication open is I would share a scenario using their friends as an example, I would say I ran into Kathy’s mom, and she shared what happened at softball practice. It’s amazing how they all have thoughts and opinions on matters, will openingly share their feelings on the subject, they just do NOT want to be the one under the microscope, well, until they do, and then they need 100% of your attention..
Sometimes , I would use the “i was reading an article , Help me understand, or I was listening to the words of a song, what do those lyrics, imply or even mean?” If I approached a subject without judgement or a lecture tone in my voice, They would engage ( they would never miss a chance to make sport of old mom). If I simply stated I read an article about huffing, that is so dangerous, don’t ever entertain that, they would have rolled their eyes at me, and one of them Would have grabbed the can of whipped cream out of the frig and pretended to huff it.
Keep those lines of communication open . Just because she doesn’t want to talk today, doesn’t mean she won’t tomorrow, kids will struggle with where their loyalty should be in regard to divorced parents. As parents we have to figure out a way that they feel comfortable enough in not having to choose sides, even when dad is an alcoholic. ( and that just doesn’t seem fair)
I learned years after the fact that the girls never wanted to tell me that they had a nice time with their dad, they thought that would hurt my feelings, or make me angry. That was interesting to learn years later.
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even though I know that young teen girls with two non-alcoholic parents can also be this way.
My 5 yo granddaughter is adorable, sweet, loving, a happy child and her parents are wonderful. But man oh man does she have the passive aggressive thing down! It's like she was born with it. It boggles my mind sometimes. If she's told to do something she doesn't want to do, she'll pout and stare into space and utterly ignore the adult who's talking, and *continue doing what she wants* until she absolutely can't. And she's only 5!
It's the constant fear that I'm not doing a good enough job, that everything ex said about me - I'm a neglectful parent, Kid doesn't really love me, she's unhappy with me and only wants to be with him - is true.
Your daughter will be fine. She has a wonderful mom as an example.
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We've been going through similar stuff with my stepdaughter, and someone recommended the book "Untangled" which is about how teen girls develop. I'm only 20 pages in and already feel smarter.
One great analogy: think of yourself as a pool, your teen as a swimmer and the water as the broader world. She should want to swim; but can always return to the safety of your "pool wall" when she needs security or a break. But once she's feeling better, she may "push off" you again. So there is this whole dynamic of the person they feel safest with also getting the worst treatment.
Anyway it really helped me to wrap my head around what was going on with her developmentally.
One great analogy: think of yourself as a pool, your teen as a swimmer and the water as the broader world. She should want to swim; but can always return to the safety of your "pool wall" when she needs security or a break. But once she's feeling better, she may "push off" you again. So there is this whole dynamic of the person they feel safest with also getting the worst treatment.
Anyway it really helped me to wrap my head around what was going on with her developmentally.
my daughter had a super awful teenage period....not all the time, not every day, but good grief the drama!!!! her dad and i were divorced, alternated every other week, no major addiction type issues, just no longer suited stuff. i remember door slams and i hate you's.....
years later in her 20's, she moved back to our locale after college and years spent in LA.....she lived with us for seven long long months...started out great, in fact we kinda regressed, baby bird back in the nest. but her true NON baby bird self re-appeared and by the end i was so damn glad to see her go! in fact we got into a fight, that ended with me in tears as she stated - while standing in MY kitchen cooking good using MY kitchen stuff in MY house that she didn't pay a cent towards expenses, that i had - and i quote - never done a THING for her during her ENTIRE life!!!!
she's 35 now. do you see my avatar? those are our commemorative tickets to the Belmont. yes, WE are going to NYC to see the third leg of the Triple Crown with a bona find TC contender next Saturday!!!!! WE have been planning this trip for a year now. it's her bucket list idea...i just sort of hopped in the bucket with her! LOL we leave thursday......can't freakin' wait.
those horrid teenage years are long long ago. part of the journey. worth every minute.
years later in her 20's, she moved back to our locale after college and years spent in LA.....she lived with us for seven long long months...started out great, in fact we kinda regressed, baby bird back in the nest. but her true NON baby bird self re-appeared and by the end i was so damn glad to see her go! in fact we got into a fight, that ended with me in tears as she stated - while standing in MY kitchen cooking good using MY kitchen stuff in MY house that she didn't pay a cent towards expenses, that i had - and i quote - never done a THING for her during her ENTIRE life!!!!
she's 35 now. do you see my avatar? those are our commemorative tickets to the Belmont. yes, WE are going to NYC to see the third leg of the Triple Crown with a bona find TC contender next Saturday!!!!! WE have been planning this trip for a year now. it's her bucket list idea...i just sort of hopped in the bucket with her! LOL we leave thursday......can't freakin' wait.
those horrid teenage years are long long ago. part of the journey. worth every minute.
Teenagers! *sigh*. Mine were not that bad, but they would cop an attitude and sometimes told us we were stupid when we put our foot down on certain things. Their way of protesting at the time was to exclaim, "That's stupid!!". Girls tend to be more dramatic. I didn't really know any different because I came from a household full of girls and no boys. The way my dad dealt with us was to take frequent "breaks" out on the porch or someplace outside. The house got to be a little too dramatic at times. Anyways...I think it's good to keep kids engaged doing things they enjoy that are good for them and fun and keep them busy.I understand the worry you have, though about what might be coming from the other parent. Hang in there.
I gave my DIL a book called 'Princess B*tch Face' and she says it's helped her a lot. Her DD who will be 16 soon is a handful, but not a bad kid. Boy can she drive everyone crazy!
I think the problem is that they want to be independent while still keeping all the privileges of childhood. For instance, she's received lovely presents and money over the years at birthday and Christmas, and when I offered to help her grow some herbs for gifts at Christmas as a token of thanks she just wasn't interested, in fact she can't even manage a hand drawn card. But she still wants the presents.
My own daughter didn't really grow up until she turned 21. For some reason that seemingly random age seems to actually mean something.
I think the problem is that they want to be independent while still keeping all the privileges of childhood. For instance, she's received lovely presents and money over the years at birthday and Christmas, and when I offered to help her grow some herbs for gifts at Christmas as a token of thanks she just wasn't interested, in fact she can't even manage a hand drawn card. But she still wants the presents.
My own daughter didn't really grow up until she turned 21. For some reason that seemingly random age seems to actually mean something.
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All of it sounds normal to me. I have a teenage daughter, and that sounds like pretty typical teenage drama stuff.
Sometimes, when mine gets like that, I just give up trying and basically give her a big 'ol hug and say "hope it gets better." In other words, I ignore the 'fluff' or 'drama' part of it and go to heart of it,' ie. just wanting Mom to acknowledge that she knows something is wrong without actually helping me deal with whatever it is that's wrong. Doesn't make sense ... but its the teen years.
Sometimes, when mine gets like that, I just give up trying and basically give her a big 'ol hug and say "hope it gets better." In other words, I ignore the 'fluff' or 'drama' part of it and go to heart of it,' ie. just wanting Mom to acknowledge that she knows something is wrong without actually helping me deal with whatever it is that's wrong. Doesn't make sense ... but its the teen years.
Oh boy friend, do I understand this!!!!
I have two teenage daughters. This is a topic of conversation on a regular basis in counseling with us. I have explained that I ask them what is going on a lot because I am always wanting to look out for their wellbeing. It's taken a lot of time to realize that as teens, it does not all come back to dad. He is just one thing on their radar, and frankly, most of the other things are bigger. They are trying to form independence, so they push away. It's my job to be there when they need me, but it's their job to reach out when they do. I cannot read minds, and it's really helped that the counselor has stressed that over and over to them.
One of the other things we have focused on is being respectful. It's twofold for it to work. One, I am their parent and that means not speaking to me in a certain manner and eye rolling at me so much. It also means I have to respect when they say leave me alone unless I think it's an emergency. It's a fine line, and a hard one to keep!
I encourage you to talk to her about this, or her counselor and explain that this is something you would like to work on so you can all get along better. When it works, it works well. When it doesn't, well, you know.....lol.
We also talk about in counseling that as long as I don't see any need to spy on them, I won't. However, if grades start slipping, I catch them in lies, etc, I will be in their business it one hot second. Trust is earned.
From one momma to another, I am here! If you ever want a buddy who understands, feel free to PM me!
Big hugs! You are a great mom!
I have two teenage daughters. This is a topic of conversation on a regular basis in counseling with us. I have explained that I ask them what is going on a lot because I am always wanting to look out for their wellbeing. It's taken a lot of time to realize that as teens, it does not all come back to dad. He is just one thing on their radar, and frankly, most of the other things are bigger. They are trying to form independence, so they push away. It's my job to be there when they need me, but it's their job to reach out when they do. I cannot read minds, and it's really helped that the counselor has stressed that over and over to them.
One of the other things we have focused on is being respectful. It's twofold for it to work. One, I am their parent and that means not speaking to me in a certain manner and eye rolling at me so much. It also means I have to respect when they say leave me alone unless I think it's an emergency. It's a fine line, and a hard one to keep!
I encourage you to talk to her about this, or her counselor and explain that this is something you would like to work on so you can all get along better. When it works, it works well. When it doesn't, well, you know.....lol.
We also talk about in counseling that as long as I don't see any need to spy on them, I won't. However, if grades start slipping, I catch them in lies, etc, I will be in their business it one hot second. Trust is earned.
From one momma to another, I am here! If you ever want a buddy who understands, feel free to PM me!
Big hugs! You are a great mom!
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Belated thanks to everyone who responded! It really does help to have people to give me a reality check. It's amazing how strong the connection is with our children - when Kid is being a young-teen-with-attitude, I feel this deep visceral punch, like something has gone terribly wrong and I HAVE TO make it right. I know intellectually that this is very normal for her age, and that given everything she's been dealing with, some sullen behavior is pretty much to be expected. And I'm fine dealing with other people displaying attitude, and generally pretty hard-assed, it's just when it's my own child that I flip into catastrophizing and guilt mode.
(This is partly me flashing back to some of ex's crap - telling me repeatedly that I was a cold and neglectful parent, that Kid didn't love me, that he was the most important person in her life, etc etc. And then flash forward to the present, where ex has been missing-in-action for going on two years, paying no child support, seeing Kid once a week, and not doing the basic things like getting his drinking under control that would let him play more of a role in Kid's life). I KNOW all of this, but somehow that knowledge escapes me in the crunch.
(This is partly me flashing back to some of ex's crap - telling me repeatedly that I was a cold and neglectful parent, that Kid didn't love me, that he was the most important person in her life, etc etc. And then flash forward to the present, where ex has been missing-in-action for going on two years, paying no child support, seeing Kid once a week, and not doing the basic things like getting his drinking under control that would let him play more of a role in Kid's life). I KNOW all of this, but somehow that knowledge escapes me in the crunch.
Unfortunately logic doesn't always over-ride emotion and then you are left with - well no one would say something that mean if there wasn't an ounce of truth in it would they?
Unfortunately, some people are just that mean.
Good Morning, Sasha,
I know from where you're coming, and DS is only 8, but he is showing some of the same signs already. I'm going to bookmark this thread for 5 years from now! I have the same fears about being a good parent, and I question myself all the time.
I think you are doing a FANTASTIC job as a mom - just keep it up. With all the BS that AXH puts you thru, you still are on your toes.
((((HUGS))))
COD
I know from where you're coming, and DS is only 8, but he is showing some of the same signs already. I'm going to bookmark this thread for 5 years from now! I have the same fears about being a good parent, and I question myself all the time.
I think you are doing a FANTASTIC job as a mom - just keep it up. With all the BS that AXH puts you thru, you still are on your toes.
((((HUGS))))
COD
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Kid is academically solid on the honors roll and failed her last test. That is more concerning then the teen girl things. My honor roll son is bummed about getting a B plus in Art. Ruined his record.
She may be trying to forget, beating herself up or is she starting to hang around the wrong children in school.
She may be trying to forget, beating herself up or is she starting to hang around the wrong children in school.
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Kid is academically solid on the honors roll and failed her last test. That is more concerning then the teen girl things. My honor roll son is bummed about getting a B plus in Art. Ruined his record.
She may be trying to forget, beating herself up or is she starting to hang around the wrong children in school.
She may be trying to forget, beating herself up or is she starting to hang around the wrong children in school.
In terms of hanging around with the wrong kids - she has a couple of new BFFs whom I've met and was relieved to see are completely nerdy and uncool. Her school does have a reputation for lots of drug activity in the upper high school years, so I'm keeping my ear to the ground, but so far, I haven't seen anything that gives me cause for concern.
No matter how old our kids get there is an incredible bond that will never be severed...for me it began when they were in the womb. Now they're both in their late twenties and I still worry about them.
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