Spahappy

My AH gave me an ultimatum yesterday. He’s been sober for about 2 months but was really just a dry drunk that only stopped because I told him I was no longer willing to live with his drinking. At the time he had said all the right things to convince me to let him stay and said that alcohol was no longer in the picture for him. But he refused to start any type of program besides seeing a counselor every few weeks and has been completely miserable.

Yesterday he sent me the following text:
“Not even sure how to broach this. I’m going to start drinking again. if you can handle that, we can move forward positively, if not, I need you to let me know and I’ll look for an apartment this weekend.” I reiterated back to him that his drinking does not create an acceptable environment for our family. He responded back that he will move out.

It’s just so sad that he is literally choosing alcohol over his family. Unbelievable and heartbreaking. I’m doing ok, shed a few tears but this has been coming for a while and I know I’m doing the right thing. But I’m concerned about my two boys (ages 5 and 7). I have tried to protect and shelter them as much as possible through all of this. But their dad moving out is going to impact them tremendously. I have no idea how to explain this to them.

Looking for advice please from any of you that have been through this with little kids.

Blueskies18

I haven't been through this with my kids, but I have lived with an alcoholic with my kids.
I told them, "daddy is sick, it's not ok to drink and get drunk around kids, I still love him, but I don't love the drinking" If I were in your shoes I'd probably say that he has to leave "for now" because it's part of his sickness.
I would keep it as simple as possible, if pressed to, you could also say that you would like him to come back one day, but no one knows what will happen. Plan a family outing with you and the boys that they will enjoy, keep to the same routine with them as much as possible, and go to alanon. Make peace and strength for you your number one priority.

Mango212

It's a long journey, whether the alcoholic is drinking or not.

Kids often know much more than we realize. Time for no more elephants in the room. No more secrets, shielding, hiding. Recognizing issues, allowing feeling to come out, voices to be heard.

Alcoholism is a family disease and the recovery from it has been very counter-intuitive for me.

Books:

- Up and Down the Mountain: Helping Children Cope with Parental Alcoholism

- Understanding Addiction and Recovery Through a Child's Eyes: Hope, Help, and Healing for Families

SparkleKitty

Their dad drinking alcoholically in the home has also impacted them tremendously, no matter how much you have tried to shield and protect them. This is a positive step forward for their future health and well-being, and you should be able to find an age-appropriate way to begin talking to them about addiction. Most importantly, understand that they will think that this is somehow their fault.

I wish I had specific advice for you on how to talk to them--I'm going to leave that to the actual parents on this forum. I'm writing as an Adult Child of an Alcoholic Mother, whose family kept everything a secret in the name of "protecting me." That was a knot it took me 32 years to start to untangle, and cost me a great deal getting to recovery.

Sasha1972

It is indeed really sad, but at least it's clear. He has stated that he's going to keep drinking (no ambiguity, no uncertainty), you have stated that he has to move out, and he's moving out. In the long run, this is the best thing for the boys, as others have said, rather than being exposed to more of the craziness of addiction. You are right, he has chosen alcohol over his children and that's his choice to make.

For talking with the kids, how about something like "Daddy and I disagree about him drinking alcohol. We don't want to argue and fight about it so Daddy is going to live somewhere else. You'll still see Dad a lot and he'll still spend lots of time with you".

I think it's possible to name the elephant in the living room (alcohol) without putting down their father.

Mango212

Two more books.

- I Can Be Me: A Helping Book for Children of Alcoholic Parents

- Courage to Be Me

When my son first heard the concept of being able to be himself, have his feelings, not having to be responsible for his parent's or siblings, that his job was to simply be a kid, it was a big game changer. Living this, one day at a time.

Maudcat

You are sending them a very powerful message, Spahappy.
That over drinking is not okay. You will no longer be part of it, and they don’t have to either.
Kids know a lot more than we think they do, even at 5 and 7.
Everyone deserves a peaceful home.

August252015

Really good advice here, and I am so sorry for your situation.

Speaking as the Adult Child like Sparkle Kitty - my parents stayed together and I spent many years "wanting the truth" ie us to be open, deal with and acknowledge all of mom's drinking and related family issues, and it cost me a lot to get to the point through adulthood and now to 27 mo sobriety (I am 42). Some great thoughts about talking with your kids above- my 11 year old (and 8 yr old brother too, I'd think) self - even my 20 year old self- would have appreciated more honesty (as age appropriate).

I'll also say as the step parent of a now 16 yr old (I met her when she was 14- she had chosen to live with her dad over her mom, in part bc of mom's continued drinking AND especially her position that "time heals, apologies aren't really that important..."), my husband and I (he's also in recovery, almost 2 yr in a couple wks) are appropriately honest with our teen. The door is open for her questions, she sees how we live (that AA is a big part, spiritual studies for me and weekly church for him, devotionals we share, things we talk about related to our drinking and so many not...) and I think it is a privilege to give her enough info about our disease while letting him demonstrate to her his commitment to sobriety (since she grew up with him drinking for awhile) and to never see me drinking, bc I have no business doing so!

My heart goes out to you. Take care of you and the kids. Hope you find support here and IRL as well.

AnvilheadII

i wouldn't overwhelm the children with all the details. not all right away. i would also make sure to "listen" to them, their responses. encourage any questions.

the very short story is dad is moving out. that in and of itself is a big deal. be careful not to make up stories about where he is going and why. or that he will be coming back in a set amount of time. they need to know that YOU are not going anywhere......that YOU are now the stable force in their lives.

his choice is really hard to wrap one's head around, but that is the lie of addiction. trusssst meee, you don't neeeed them, you'll have meeeee alll to yoursssssself now.

mamabear26

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this. My separation from my STBAXH started off with him leaving the home to "get better" and not drink. Fast forward to 2 years later he still drinks and has cheated. I first told the boys we had to live apart because of Daddy's drinking. My boys were 5 and 9 at the time. They were so unhappy with their dad because he would never make any effort with them while he was at home drinking. So in the end it was the best decision for my X to leave the home. When they see him now he seems sober but it is only for a couple of hours every other weekend. My boys seem happier seeing him sober even if it's for a few short hours than at home drunk. I hope everything works out for you.

dandylion

Spa.....I agree to keep it short and to the point....without any complex explanations or abstract concepts, at this age...…
I remember, from a child development course...that, children think of their security in 24hr. increments. They like predictability....in the next 24 hrs. When faced with any type of change, their concerns for the next day are....as examples--where will we sleep tonight? Who will be there? Will we order pizza for dinner, tonight? Will I have my best toys? Where will I go to school? Can grandma still come to see us?Will Spot (the dog) still be with us?
In other words...very concrete and basic parameters of life...for the next 24hrs.
In my own experience with my kids (when they were small)….I found that kids usually don't do a lot of talking about changes, at the time...and any questions that they may have will come out, over a period of days or weeks...as they occur to the child.....seemingly, out of the blue...lol....
I do think that it is important to remember that the kids take their cue's from the adult....so, it is important to not show undue anxiety and insecurity, yourself,when talking to the kids. You are the Captain of their ship, and they trust that you will take care of things.....If you seem calm and confident....they won't internalize it, themselves.....
When they want to know more...they will ask more...and, that is the time to answer their questions honestly and directly.....
Remember, that young kids may not have the verbal skills to express how they feel, as much as we adults have....that they will tend to act out what they can't say.....
As long as they feel safe to talk to you about anything or ask anything...that is a really good thing.....
When going through change...I think it is good to make more time for family bonding....like...spending time together doing things and quiet time for talking and affection.....

A question.....will you and their father tell them the news as a couple...together? Have you discussed this with him...?


One conclusion that some researchers...who study such things, say...is, that, on average, kids make the adjustment to divorce within 2yrs., on average....and, there is no reason think that they will be "scarred for life"...as many parents fear....IF...and, it is a big "if".....the parents handle it without fighting and turmoil that is foisted onto the children.....That it is not divorce that is the biggest problem....it is how the parents HANDLE divorce......

honeypig

This seems remarkably sensible to me, for sure! I am not a parent, and I did not grow up in an alcoholic home, although the dysfunctions of my family of origin (mom and stepfather) were pretty much identical to those of an alcoholic home.

I have a younger brother and sister who, like me, are from my mother's first marriage, and when the three of us were talking a number of years ago, we remembered our mom telling us "well, what else COULD I do? I had all you kids to take care of, HAD to stay w/stepfather." (There were 4 younger children from the 2nd marriage, two of whom had major medical issues, so a total of 7 of us.) Looking back on that statement, ALL of us felt that we'd rather have done ANYTHING than stay in that situation as kids.

We ALREADY lived w/food stamps, donated clothing and tons of work that was NOT age-appropriate OR safe on the farm where we lived. The things we would have "lost" if she had left him would have been:
1) Constant belittlement.
2) Physical threats and abuse.
3) Fear.
4) Lack of stability and trust.
5) Lack of honesty.
6) Inappropriate behavior and outright sexual abuse by stepfather for one sister (that I know of) and myself.

I would say that we all did, in fact, become "scarred", but it wasn't a 2nd divorce that did it. It was growing up without the basic information and experiences to develop as healthy adults--and ALL of us carried this forward into our adult lives in different but equally damaging ways.

IMHO, the "damage" done to kids by leaving a bad relationship can never begin to compare to the damage done to kids by staying in that bad relationship.

Also, remember that your actions are teaching them what an adult relationship looks like. Would you be happy for your children to either be treated by a partner as AH treats you or to treat their partner as AH treats you? This is your chance to show them how to say "no, not this" and start over, a skill that you KNOW they will need in their future lives.

trailmix

Certainly sounds like it and so destructive.

This is the truth. I think as parents and i'm just surmising here we sometimes don't really consider this. Parents don't have a crystal ball but I think it's safe to say this will be a given.

It teaches them what all adult relationships are like.

Spahappy, you mention they love their Dad and i'm sure they do. But the damage is already being done and there will be more. At some point they are going to realize their Dad chose alcohol over them and their Mother.

Your AH sounds emotionally stunted in some ways. He emails you to end your marriage. He is married and has two little children and he emails you to end your marriage. That's horrendous. Did he email to discuss how this might affect them, how they can best be accounted to. No.

Right now Dad is a "rock" to them, the guy who loves them and laughs with them and takes them places. None of that will make do for what he has just done. They may never forgive him. This is the choice he has made.

I'm so sorry this went the way it did. The writing was on the wall from the first text/email. As good as he might be in some ways, you are actually well rid of him. I don't say that lightly. Your children deserve to not have him as a role model and YOU deserve so much more!

As for the immediate affect on them, as Dandylion mentioned, that stability is all important. They know so much more than anyone may think. Honestly, when they find that stability and lack of anger, fighting, not finding Dad passed out in the living room and peacefulness that is a gift you are giving them.

Spahappy

Thanks all for your responses. AH has informed me (via text of course) that he has found an apartment and is moving out tomorrow. He says he is not doing this because of alcohol but because “I need to focus on me”, “I need to try and find myself” and “I need to be happy”. So unbelievably selfish.

I took my boys out of town with my parents for the weekend so will need to talk to them when we get home tomorrow and they see he isn’t there. I think I’m going to keep it short and simple like many of you suggested and just tell them that daddy has decided to move out of our house but mommy is still there with them. And see what questions they have I guess. I don’t know whether to mention the alcohol or not. Maybe later on.

Mango, thank you for the book recommendations. I will pick up a few of those this week.

Spahappy

Dandy, no he hasn’t brought up the kids all. No mention of how to talk to them, when he wants to see him, etc. it’s all about him.

Trailmix, I agree he is emotionally stunted, that’s an interesting observation. I think he texts and emails these things to me because he’s just not capable of having these conversations in person. When we have tried he storms out of the room the second I say something he doesn’t want to hear. I agree, this whole situation is horrendous. No regard for the other lives he is impacting.

Sasha1972

I've heard it said that active alcoholics are often psychologically "stuck" at the developmental stage they were in when they picked up their first drink - which means in a lot of cases, somewhere in early adolescence. That sounds a bit like your ex, who can't seem to find his big boy pants.

Spahappy

Wow I’m having a really hard day. I thought I was prepared to handle this but the tears are just flowing. Just sad and overwhelmed by the reality of this. I need to somehow hold it together when we get home and I talk to the kids

PeacefulWater12

I am sorry your AH has gone down that route. I feel this beautiful comment by Mango expresses it very clearly.

I grew up in a home of a drunk dad, we all had to tip toe around him. When my mum eventually booted him out, I was 12. My siblings younger. I just wished she had done it years before.

It was an enormous relief when he went.

dandylion

Spa......I think your reaction is pretty normal for the situation....Of course this is not easy! I can still remember when I had to tell my kids.....they were still quite small, and it went much easier than I anticipated....

(crying into a thickly folded towel, in the bathroom, where the kids can't hear you, is a handy technique that I have used many times)…..

trailmix

Yes, it is hard. You have been holding it together really well but, of course, you are probably very hurt by all of this. You married someone who is now a stranger to you.

I have a suggestion and of course this is just my opinion (from the take what you want and leave the rest variety).

You mentioned that when you talk to the kids you might just leave the part about alcohol out. Why is that? Does it seem too negative? By telling them he is leaving but not giving them any reasons, it will be open for interpretation by them.

Aside from that, is this the beginning of an open conversation about addiction/alcoholism or is it the start of a cover up so Dad doesn't look so "bad". The latter will probably come back at you at some point.

It is what he is, he is an alcoholic. It's the truth (and on some level they probably know this).

Just that you might want to start as you plan to go forward.

Anyway, hold tight, you will get through this. Circle the wagons (and that means us here at SR too!). After your talk tonight perhaps you could all go out for ice cream or something, something to make the day a bit brighter for all of you?