SoberLink compliance - WWYD?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 232
Stick to the plan. He's manipulating you again, like all the addicts have in our lives.
You know and said what we ALL know about dealing with addicts: give an inch, they go for the mile.
With a court order/requirement in place, you have something to lean on and don't have to compromise. Blame it on the court order, if it makes it easier for you. Even if he tries to make it about you, or lead you down another path/conversation/etc, just keep bringing it back to the court order, and keep doing it. Practice in a mirror or with a friend to help...
If you let it go the first time, he will use it as a benchmark to justify a 'next time'. It's how they operate.
If we as people with addicts in our lives (whether we want them there or not) want things to change, the first thing we need to change is that we won't give in any more to their manipulation.
It may be harder in the beginning, but as you continue to stick to your guns and make THAT your habit, it will get easier...
Peace to you!
You know and said what we ALL know about dealing with addicts: give an inch, they go for the mile.
With a court order/requirement in place, you have something to lean on and don't have to compromise. Blame it on the court order, if it makes it easier for you. Even if he tries to make it about you, or lead you down another path/conversation/etc, just keep bringing it back to the court order, and keep doing it. Practice in a mirror or with a friend to help...
If you let it go the first time, he will use it as a benchmark to justify a 'next time'. It's how they operate.
If we as people with addicts in our lives (whether we want them there or not) want things to change, the first thing we need to change is that we won't give in any more to their manipulation.
It may be harder in the beginning, but as you continue to stick to your guns and make THAT your habit, it will get easier...
Peace to you!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: California
Posts: 467
I'm sorry that you are going through this i completely understand. I'm having issues as well with my divorce coming to an end. I have stipulations added to protect kids from his alcoholism. I'm trying to figure out about how to enforce all the stipulations I added. I feel the same way as you do. You don't want to engage but also don't want to be a door mat. It's hard finding a balance. I would suggest to go with your gut. You know him better than anyone else and at the end of the day you have to deal with him. Good luck and a big hug!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
This weekend's update:
Last week, ex "graduated" to having unsupervised (but still SoberLink monitored) visits with Kid, because he had managed to get through eight weeks of supervised visits without turning up drunk or screwing up his SoberLink monitoring beyond the two-minutes-here, nine-minutes-there incidents described earlier in this chain of posts.
And predictably enough yesterday, on only his second unsupervised visit, he pushed the limits again, by submitting a scheduled test ten minutes outside the window of compliance.
I didn't intervene directly to stop the visit because Kid was already on her way home by the time I learned about it (ex prefers to have Kid take the bus an hour each way to his place rather than arrange some other transport for her - he's prohibited from driving with her following his most recent DUI but taxis exist, and it's not like he's at work or anything ... anyway, I digress).
So I think following the other noncompliant incidents, we are back to once-a-week supervised visits only, as spelled out in our court order. Again. My lawyer is preparing (another) letter to his lawyer. This is so predictably like dealing with a five-year-old - testing limits to see if Mommy really means it about cracking down (and yes, Mommy does mean it, and you're getting a time-out).
I keep thinking: if I were ever in a position where I knew that my relationship my daughter depended on my breathing into a tube attached to my phone once during a a prearranged 20-minute interval, whether or not I liked the idea or not I would move heaven and earth to make sure I breathed into that tube exactly as expected. I would not screw it up or use it as a chance to mess around with my ex-wife or act out my own weird issues with my own mother, because my daughter is more important than my crap.
Last week, ex "graduated" to having unsupervised (but still SoberLink monitored) visits with Kid, because he had managed to get through eight weeks of supervised visits without turning up drunk or screwing up his SoberLink monitoring beyond the two-minutes-here, nine-minutes-there incidents described earlier in this chain of posts.
And predictably enough yesterday, on only his second unsupervised visit, he pushed the limits again, by submitting a scheduled test ten minutes outside the window of compliance.
I didn't intervene directly to stop the visit because Kid was already on her way home by the time I learned about it (ex prefers to have Kid take the bus an hour each way to his place rather than arrange some other transport for her - he's prohibited from driving with her following his most recent DUI but taxis exist, and it's not like he's at work or anything ... anyway, I digress).
So I think following the other noncompliant incidents, we are back to once-a-week supervised visits only, as spelled out in our court order. Again. My lawyer is preparing (another) letter to his lawyer. This is so predictably like dealing with a five-year-old - testing limits to see if Mommy really means it about cracking down (and yes, Mommy does mean it, and you're getting a time-out).
I keep thinking: if I were ever in a position where I knew that my relationship my daughter depended on my breathing into a tube attached to my phone once during a a prearranged 20-minute interval, whether or not I liked the idea or not I would move heaven and earth to make sure I breathed into that tube exactly as expected. I would not screw it up or use it as a chance to mess around with my ex-wife or act out my own weird issues with my own mother, because my daughter is more important than my crap.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
(And in the "you can't make this stuff up" department: yesterday I was in the local Sally Ann a block from my place because Kid wanted mason jars to make a craft project. So, fine, this is a good activity and I like poking around thrift stores. Then I heard a familiar voice. Ex and his girlfriend [the rehab-romance] were a few aisles over in the lingerie section comparing slips and bras. I clocked them, they didn't see me. I ducked into the book section and made my escape with my jars thereafter.
So:
Who on earth buys lingerie, aka exotic underwear, at the Salvation Army??
Which one of them was shopping??
Of all the thrift stores in this city, why MY neighbourhood??
Can I possibly unsee this?? )
So:
Who on earth buys lingerie, aka exotic underwear, at the Salvation Army??
Which one of them was shopping??
Of all the thrift stores in this city, why MY neighbourhood??
Can I possibly unsee this?? )
...and yet, King Baby cannot possibly come to your daughter. Oh, no. SHE has to make a one hour each way bus ride.
Used lingerie is a different story!
I think your daughter will at some point say, "No more." Does she know she has that option? Or rather, does she have that option? When I was 12, I refused to visit my dad any more after one too many weirdnesses.
Used lingerie is a different story!
I think your daughter will at some point say, "No more." Does she know she has that option? Or rather, does she have that option? When I was 12, I refused to visit my dad any more after one too many weirdnesses.
OMG you really cannot make this stuff up! Wow.
I feel for your daughter, and you as well. Eventually she will be old enough to say no more, and you won't have to deal with him. However, he will always be her dad and she cannot divorce him in that way. I hear that from my kids....a lot. Big hugs to you and your daughter.
I feel for your daughter, and you as well. Eventually she will be old enough to say no more, and you won't have to deal with him. However, he will always be her dad and she cannot divorce him in that way. I hear that from my kids....a lot. Big hugs to you and your daughter.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: California
Posts: 467
This weekend's update:
Last week, ex "graduated" to having unsupervised (but still SoberLink monitored) visits with Kid, because he had managed to get through eight weeks of supervised visits without turning up drunk or screwing up his SoberLink monitoring beyond the two-minutes-here, nine-minutes-there incidents described earlier in this chain of posts.
And predictably enough yesterday, on only his second unsupervised visit, he pushed the limits again, by submitting a scheduled test ten minutes outside the window of compliance.
I didn't intervene directly to stop the visit because Kid was already on her way home by the time I learned about it (ex prefers to have Kid take the bus an hour each way to his place rather than arrange some other transport for her - he's prohibited from driving with her following his most recent DUI but taxis exist, and it's not like he's at work or anything ... anyway, I digress).
So I think following the other noncompliant incidents, we are back to once-a-week supervised visits only, as spelled out in our court order. Again. My lawyer is preparing (another) letter to his lawyer. This is so predictably like dealing with a five-year-old - testing limits to see if Mommy really means it about cracking down (and yes, Mommy does mean it, and you're getting a time-out).
I keep thinking: if I were ever in a position where I knew that my relationship my daughter depended on my breathing into a tube attached to my phone once during a a prearranged 20-minute interval, whether or not I liked the idea or not I would move heaven and earth to make sure I breathed into that tube exactly as expected. I would not screw it up or use it as a chance to mess around with my ex-wife or act out my own weird issues with my own mother, because my daughter is more important than my crap.
Last week, ex "graduated" to having unsupervised (but still SoberLink monitored) visits with Kid, because he had managed to get through eight weeks of supervised visits without turning up drunk or screwing up his SoberLink monitoring beyond the two-minutes-here, nine-minutes-there incidents described earlier in this chain of posts.
And predictably enough yesterday, on only his second unsupervised visit, he pushed the limits again, by submitting a scheduled test ten minutes outside the window of compliance.
I didn't intervene directly to stop the visit because Kid was already on her way home by the time I learned about it (ex prefers to have Kid take the bus an hour each way to his place rather than arrange some other transport for her - he's prohibited from driving with her following his most recent DUI but taxis exist, and it's not like he's at work or anything ... anyway, I digress).
So I think following the other noncompliant incidents, we are back to once-a-week supervised visits only, as spelled out in our court order. Again. My lawyer is preparing (another) letter to his lawyer. This is so predictably like dealing with a five-year-old - testing limits to see if Mommy really means it about cracking down (and yes, Mommy does mean it, and you're getting a time-out).
I keep thinking: if I were ever in a position where I knew that my relationship my daughter depended on my breathing into a tube attached to my phone once during a a prearranged 20-minute interval, whether or not I liked the idea or not I would move heaven and earth to make sure I breathed into that tube exactly as expected. I would not screw it up or use it as a chance to mess around with my ex-wife or act out my own weird issues with my own mother, because my daughter is more important than my crap.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
... aaaand today's update: ex has now fired his lawyer and is going rogue, which means he's sending my lawyer all kinds of rants and screenshots of his texts to me. I have instructed my lawyer to forwarded any long messages from ex to me, so I'm not paying him to read 20 pages of nonsense.
I informed ex yesterday that we are back to supervised visits only, per the court order, because of his SoberLink fails and got the expected threats about contempt of court, having me arrested, throwing me in jail, taking away custody of Kid, etc. And that I must produce Kid for him immediately OR ELSE, as though she's some sort of package that I'm hoarding. Round and round we go again.
I informed ex yesterday that we are back to supervised visits only, per the court order, because of his SoberLink fails and got the expected threats about contempt of court, having me arrested, throwing me in jail, taking away custody of Kid, etc. And that I must produce Kid for him immediately OR ELSE, as though she's some sort of package that I'm hoarding. Round and round we go again.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
At the moment, he's limited to 30-minute supervised visits once a week in a public place, which means sitting in a food court with Kid, with me a couple of tables away. I am willing to allow longer visits if there's an acceptable third-party supervisor but he doesn't have any friends anymore so there's no one who can supervise. So it's a crappy situation all around. And of course it's all my fault because I am Big Bad Mommy.
I am really banking on this being a long game, and that over time Kid will of her own accord decide to restrict her own contact with her father. If I short-circuit that process by cutting visits altogether, then I really am acting like Big Bad Mommy.
From what I understand from my lawyer, until ex does something really illegal and dangerous, like threatening physical harm to either me or Kid, or actually hurting one of us physically, it's unlikely that a court would allow me to cut off all contact. But he's getting worse, not better, in terms of mental illness, so the day when he crosses that line may not be far off, and it will be something of a relief if it finally arrives.
Yes I guess the court wants to see irrefutable proof that he is completely off balance.
I also see how you have to weigh this up against your Daughter wanting to see him. That's kind of an unusual situation (from my experience). What value does she see in these visits? Was he a good Dad at some point and she is just hoping he will miraculously change back?
My Father was an alcoholic and although I never cut him out of my life completely (except for 1 year) we never had any great relationship that would have had me wanting to spend time with him in a food court (ie: short of family dinners, I rarely saw him).
My point is, I can certainly see you not wanting to be the BBM, completely get that but I also wonder what damage is being done?
What's your take?
I also see how you have to weigh this up against your Daughter wanting to see him. That's kind of an unusual situation (from my experience). What value does she see in these visits? Was he a good Dad at some point and she is just hoping he will miraculously change back?
My Father was an alcoholic and although I never cut him out of my life completely (except for 1 year) we never had any great relationship that would have had me wanting to spend time with him in a food court (ie: short of family dinners, I rarely saw him).
My point is, I can certainly see you not wanting to be the BBM, completely get that but I also wonder what damage is being done?
What's your take?
Life is good
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,036
the benefit to Kid of having a relationship with her father
My experience:
It is very beneficial for kid to be away from his dad while the worse of his dad is present, with breathing room on the back side of those time periods.
When God/Universe presents the opportunity for us to be away from toxic people, I'm now seeing that as a beautiful gift.
My experience:
It is very beneficial for kid to be away from his dad while the worse of his dad is present, with breathing room on the back side of those time periods.
When God/Universe presents the opportunity for us to be away from toxic people, I'm now seeing that as a beautiful gift.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 773
Hang in there. Your ex sounds exhausting, and your descriptions are sad and hilarious at the same time. I am sure many here can relate - alcoholics are manipulators and are very unreliable, XAH (sober) has developed a habit to mess with the schedule, just for the sake of being able to start screaming about what a control freak Nata is. Also moans about drug testing every time.
It’s annoying, I just let him know I document the behavior and move on.
It’s annoying, I just let him know I document the behavior and move on.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
Yes I guess the court wants to see irrefutable proof that he is completely off balance.
My Father was an alcoholic and although I never cut him out of my life completely (except for 1 year) we never had any great relationship that would have had me wanting to spend time with him in a food court (ie: short of family dinners, I rarely saw him).
My point is, I can certainly see you not wanting to be the BBM, completely get that but I also wonder what damage is being done?
What's your take?
My Father was an alcoholic and although I never cut him out of my life completely (except for 1 year) we never had any great relationship that would have had me wanting to spend time with him in a food court (ie: short of family dinners, I rarely saw him).
My point is, I can certainly see you not wanting to be the BBM, completely get that but I also wonder what damage is being done?
What's your take?
I believe he loves her in a way, and Kid senses this and hangs onto it - she doesn't want to lose that love, which I can understand. However his idea of "loving" someone doesn't involve doing any work - like complying with SoberLink long enough to get visits with his kid, or paying child support, or even minimal showing up. "Love" means involving the other person in lots of emotional drama without respect for their boundaries or their integrity. It's what he learned from his FOO, and I guess in that way he is a victim of circumstances.
But I have to work really hard to get to a place of compassion for his own life and for having the genetic and familial dice loaded against him when I think about the chaos he's inflicting on Kid and on me (and his other ex-wife, and his siblings, and his ex-friends, and his co-workers, and ... ).
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 994
I am really banking on this being a long game, and that over time Kid will of her own accord decide to restrict her own contact with her father. If I short-circuit that process by cutting visits altogether, then I really am acting like Big Bad Mommy.
Hang in cos she will work it out. My kids have. I never restricted their access to exah unless he was obviously drunk and I used to go on supervised visits with them. I hated it but sucked it up and now they are older they are not interested in him anymore. He, in turn, has got more enmeshed in his drinking and rarely remembers they exist. Periodically he reappears and tries to cause some further havoc but out of our 8 kids only one will entertain him and he literally gives him 30 minutes in the food hall then leaves. All my kids said they loved an illusion. He only seemed OK cos I protected them from the worst of him and made their lives great and looking back they realised that now.
Hang in cos she will work it out. My kids have. I never restricted their access to exah unless he was obviously drunk and I used to go on supervised visits with them. I hated it but sucked it up and now they are older they are not interested in him anymore. He, in turn, has got more enmeshed in his drinking and rarely remembers they exist. Periodically he reappears and tries to cause some further havoc but out of our 8 kids only one will entertain him and he literally gives him 30 minutes in the food hall then leaves. All my kids said they loved an illusion. He only seemed OK cos I protected them from the worst of him and made their lives great and looking back they realised that now.
Yeah, I was the kid who said, "No more," with my dad. My parents had been divorced for 5-6 years when I did that. I was 12. He had remarried. There were so many reasons I didn't want to have a relationship with him and his new family. My mother wanted me to continue to see him - why, I don't know...but I just refused. It meant giving up that whole side of the family, and in hindsight maybe I was a bit premature - but a 12 YO kid has enough on their plate. I was done.
Sasha, he's a piece of work, no doubt. Firing his lawyer? Oh, that will go well in court.
Sasha, he's a piece of work, no doubt. Firing his lawyer? Oh, that will go well in court.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
If he does retain counsel again, I think the next step downwards will have gills and webbed fingers.
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