Fiance in denial - I want to help but don't know how
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 2
Fiance in denial - I want to help but don't know how
Hi everyone,
I'd love some advice, as I feel like I'm standing at the edge of a cliff and not sure what to do next. I don't know if I'm overreacting or giving up on my relationship too soon, or how to help an alcoholic in denial....(sorry, this is a bit long).
My fiance of 3.5 years is in complete denial about being an alcoholic (He is 40, and I am 31). When we first met I didn't see the warning signs - that he showed up to all dates drunk, that he always wanted to drink when we saw one another, etc. I guess I was in denial myself, and thought it was harmless.
Over the course of our relationship, I've realized that it's not just social drinking. He cannot limit himself; each and every time he consumes alcohol, he gets blackout drunk - to the point where he can't remember anything and sometimes falls/passes out, or even wets himself. He drinks around three times a week (Friday, Saturday, Sunday), but sometimes during the week as well (2 40oz. bottles of vodka in 3 days + beers). When he was still working, it got to the point where he'd bring a flask to work. He was still completely in denial about having a problem.
He drinks whenever he's upset, even by the most minor things - like the cable cutting out. And I firmly believe that he picks fights with me to give him an excuse to drink. He gets upset with me for the stupidest most trivial things - like the time I bought him chicken nuggets at McDonalds and not a Big Mac (he wouldn't talk to me all night and drank for 3 days straight). This happened regularly.
He has been verbally abusive but never physically. He has said horrific things to me - told me I was not worthy of love, that he hoped I would die, that I was a monster and a disgusting human being - telling me no one would ever love me.... This would start from something minor and trivial, like the aforementioned incidents, but would escalate to verbal abuse. I would stay silent throughout his tirades. I sit on the couch and stare straight ahead, and try to read a book or browse on my phone and ignore him. He would resort to getting right in my face, smashing my book away, etc. A few times I was afraid that it would get physical and I'd run and lock myself in the bathroom crying, begging him to please leave me alone and just go watch TV. He would stand outside and laugh at me and taunt me, continuing the verbal abuse. Even though I sound like a doormat, I am in every other situation an assertive person who doesn't resort to juvenile fighting and does not tolerate it from others. But he has turned me into someone I don't even recognize in terms of my own anger issues that have arisen from these confrontations.
I've tried to leave many, many times. Fortunately, my situation is different than most. I am the sole breadwinner and I earn a very good living - he is unemployed and has no income and no savings. I've been the breadwinner for most of our relationship (I've always had a great job whereas when he was working, it was for minimum wage). He is almost 40 and has no career prospects, no marketable experience, and zero ambition. The last few years I offered him the opportunity to take a break from work and pursue his creative goals (he's an artist), hoping that would boost his confidence and he could parlay that into a money-making career. It started off promisingly; he stopped drinking for the longest stretch yet (2.5 months) and poured himself into his work. But it didn't sell, and he didn't achieve the fame/success that he thought he was entitled to. Now it's two years later and he barely makes an effort at his art, and shows no regard for the fact that I shoulder all the responsibility of running our household ( we do not have children). When I try to gently bring up the inequity of our roles, he gets very defensive and accuses me of not believing in his talent (he is talented, but also lazy).
Every time I try to end things, he argues with me that he doesn't have a problem and that I'm being dramatic, but eventually promises to "cut down on his drinking". But after 3 or 4 weeks of abstinence, he eventually finds a reason to drink again. There's always something that happens that justifies him drinking (in his mind).
Even though we aren't married yet, I feel responsible for him. He's financially dependent on me, but also emotionally - and I am literally his only friend. Neither of us are very socially active, partly because of his drinking, but I fear that if I ended things, he'd be all alone, with no one to help him with recovery if he decided to pursue it. I definitely fall under the "enabling" label - I give him a monthly allowance (because he pouts otherwise), I do all of the household chores even though I work and he's at home all day, and I lie and cover for him to friends/family. I even moved to another country with him, thinking it would help him to "start fresh", thinking that if I could make him happy enough, he wouldn't want to drink. I do everything to make his life easier to alleviate any depression/emotional stress he may have, in hopes that it would help him to see how much I love him, and that it's worth while to stop drinking, but I suppose I only make it easier for him to drink.
Because of his drinking, I no longer drink. I am terrified of making it seem like acceptable behavior, so I have stopped even having a glass of wine with dinner. I have alienated myself socially, because of the shame I feel - my friends have seen him blackout drunk, and they are what I would call "fancy, educated types" who do not normally encounter his kind of behavior. It was incredibly embarassing to me, and I don't want to have the difficult conversations with them about his drinking, so I've just just gradually shut them out. I know they think I can do better. I can't talk to anyone about my situation, because I don't want them to judge me or him. My dad in particular likes my fiance as a person but calls him "Mr. Useless" and encourages me to leave him constantly. That just makes me feel like a failure.
Anyway, sorry for this long and rambling post. I have been trying my absolute hardest to help this man who is my best friend, and who I care so much about. I do NOT want to give up on him, because I know he is a good person underneath his addiction, but I am at a loss of what to do. I have tried so many different approaches - tough love, withdrawing affection, compassion, threats, guilt, sympathy....nothing seems to work. He keeps denying that he has any kind of problem. We are now at the point where when he's drinking, I told him he has to stay away from me (and he mostly complies). So we sit in separate rooms 3 days a week. When I see him pour his first drink, or when he tries to speak to me while intoxicated, I'm disgusted by him. I can barely look at him because I'm furious and repulsed. I don't want to be intimate with him anymore, because I feel like I do all the giving in the relationship. He literally makes zero attempts at romance but expects me to be hot for him 24/7. I'm the one who has to initiate any intimacy, and I only do so out of a feeling of obligation and of wanting to rekindle the spark - not out of genuine lust. I feel like I have so much anger and resentment.
Can anyone share some wisdom or advice as to how I can proceed? How do I help someone who is in denial? How do I "stand by him" without enabling? I feel like if I cut off all financial support it isn't fair, and I worry about how he'd cope. Also, he has abandonment issues (his mom left when he was young for seven years and was an alcoholic herself, though now she is in his life and perfectly sober and lovely). I fear that he wouldn't understand if I broke it off, and that he'd think I was leaving him like his mom did (he has accused me of this other times I've tried to leave). I want to support him and help him, but if he isn't at the stage where he sees that he has a problem, then what can I do?
I would greatly appreciate your personal insights, experiences, and advice - more than I can possibly say. I feel I am at my wit's end.
I'd love some advice, as I feel like I'm standing at the edge of a cliff and not sure what to do next. I don't know if I'm overreacting or giving up on my relationship too soon, or how to help an alcoholic in denial....(sorry, this is a bit long).
My fiance of 3.5 years is in complete denial about being an alcoholic (He is 40, and I am 31). When we first met I didn't see the warning signs - that he showed up to all dates drunk, that he always wanted to drink when we saw one another, etc. I guess I was in denial myself, and thought it was harmless.
Over the course of our relationship, I've realized that it's not just social drinking. He cannot limit himself; each and every time he consumes alcohol, he gets blackout drunk - to the point where he can't remember anything and sometimes falls/passes out, or even wets himself. He drinks around three times a week (Friday, Saturday, Sunday), but sometimes during the week as well (2 40oz. bottles of vodka in 3 days + beers). When he was still working, it got to the point where he'd bring a flask to work. He was still completely in denial about having a problem.
He drinks whenever he's upset, even by the most minor things - like the cable cutting out. And I firmly believe that he picks fights with me to give him an excuse to drink. He gets upset with me for the stupidest most trivial things - like the time I bought him chicken nuggets at McDonalds and not a Big Mac (he wouldn't talk to me all night and drank for 3 days straight). This happened regularly.
He has been verbally abusive but never physically. He has said horrific things to me - told me I was not worthy of love, that he hoped I would die, that I was a monster and a disgusting human being - telling me no one would ever love me.... This would start from something minor and trivial, like the aforementioned incidents, but would escalate to verbal abuse. I would stay silent throughout his tirades. I sit on the couch and stare straight ahead, and try to read a book or browse on my phone and ignore him. He would resort to getting right in my face, smashing my book away, etc. A few times I was afraid that it would get physical and I'd run and lock myself in the bathroom crying, begging him to please leave me alone and just go watch TV. He would stand outside and laugh at me and taunt me, continuing the verbal abuse. Even though I sound like a doormat, I am in every other situation an assertive person who doesn't resort to juvenile fighting and does not tolerate it from others. But he has turned me into someone I don't even recognize in terms of my own anger issues that have arisen from these confrontations.
I've tried to leave many, many times. Fortunately, my situation is different than most. I am the sole breadwinner and I earn a very good living - he is unemployed and has no income and no savings. I've been the breadwinner for most of our relationship (I've always had a great job whereas when he was working, it was for minimum wage). He is almost 40 and has no career prospects, no marketable experience, and zero ambition. The last few years I offered him the opportunity to take a break from work and pursue his creative goals (he's an artist), hoping that would boost his confidence and he could parlay that into a money-making career. It started off promisingly; he stopped drinking for the longest stretch yet (2.5 months) and poured himself into his work. But it didn't sell, and he didn't achieve the fame/success that he thought he was entitled to. Now it's two years later and he barely makes an effort at his art, and shows no regard for the fact that I shoulder all the responsibility of running our household ( we do not have children). When I try to gently bring up the inequity of our roles, he gets very defensive and accuses me of not believing in his talent (he is talented, but also lazy).
Every time I try to end things, he argues with me that he doesn't have a problem and that I'm being dramatic, but eventually promises to "cut down on his drinking". But after 3 or 4 weeks of abstinence, he eventually finds a reason to drink again. There's always something that happens that justifies him drinking (in his mind).
Even though we aren't married yet, I feel responsible for him. He's financially dependent on me, but also emotionally - and I am literally his only friend. Neither of us are very socially active, partly because of his drinking, but I fear that if I ended things, he'd be all alone, with no one to help him with recovery if he decided to pursue it. I definitely fall under the "enabling" label - I give him a monthly allowance (because he pouts otherwise), I do all of the household chores even though I work and he's at home all day, and I lie and cover for him to friends/family. I even moved to another country with him, thinking it would help him to "start fresh", thinking that if I could make him happy enough, he wouldn't want to drink. I do everything to make his life easier to alleviate any depression/emotional stress he may have, in hopes that it would help him to see how much I love him, and that it's worth while to stop drinking, but I suppose I only make it easier for him to drink.
Because of his drinking, I no longer drink. I am terrified of making it seem like acceptable behavior, so I have stopped even having a glass of wine with dinner. I have alienated myself socially, because of the shame I feel - my friends have seen him blackout drunk, and they are what I would call "fancy, educated types" who do not normally encounter his kind of behavior. It was incredibly embarassing to me, and I don't want to have the difficult conversations with them about his drinking, so I've just just gradually shut them out. I know they think I can do better. I can't talk to anyone about my situation, because I don't want them to judge me or him. My dad in particular likes my fiance as a person but calls him "Mr. Useless" and encourages me to leave him constantly. That just makes me feel like a failure.
Anyway, sorry for this long and rambling post. I have been trying my absolute hardest to help this man who is my best friend, and who I care so much about. I do NOT want to give up on him, because I know he is a good person underneath his addiction, but I am at a loss of what to do. I have tried so many different approaches - tough love, withdrawing affection, compassion, threats, guilt, sympathy....nothing seems to work. He keeps denying that he has any kind of problem. We are now at the point where when he's drinking, I told him he has to stay away from me (and he mostly complies). So we sit in separate rooms 3 days a week. When I see him pour his first drink, or when he tries to speak to me while intoxicated, I'm disgusted by him. I can barely look at him because I'm furious and repulsed. I don't want to be intimate with him anymore, because I feel like I do all the giving in the relationship. He literally makes zero attempts at romance but expects me to be hot for him 24/7. I'm the one who has to initiate any intimacy, and I only do so out of a feeling of obligation and of wanting to rekindle the spark - not out of genuine lust. I feel like I have so much anger and resentment.
Can anyone share some wisdom or advice as to how I can proceed? How do I help someone who is in denial? How do I "stand by him" without enabling? I feel like if I cut off all financial support it isn't fair, and I worry about how he'd cope. Also, he has abandonment issues (his mom left when he was young for seven years and was an alcoholic herself, though now she is in his life and perfectly sober and lovely). I fear that he wouldn't understand if I broke it off, and that he'd think I was leaving him like his mom did (he has accused me of this other times I've tried to leave). I want to support him and help him, but if he isn't at the stage where he sees that he has a problem, then what can I do?
I would greatly appreciate your personal insights, experiences, and advice - more than I can possibly say. I feel I am at my wit's end.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: uk
Posts: 2,428
Welcome, sorry for the situation you are in.
Goodness me, that sounds exhausting for you. Have you considered attending Al-anon for some support and help for you? I found it an enormous comfort and help. I learnt to change my view point.
What helped me greatly too was hearing that i am NOT responsible for another grown up. If they make bad choices, that is down to them and for them to suffer the consequences.
I encourage you to take care of you and your needs.
All the best to you.
Goodness me, that sounds exhausting for you. Have you considered attending Al-anon for some support and help for you? I found it an enormous comfort and help. I learnt to change my view point.
What helped me greatly too was hearing that i am NOT responsible for another grown up. If they make bad choices, that is down to them and for them to suffer the consequences.
I encourage you to take care of you and your needs.
All the best to you.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 2
Thank you so much for your kind words.
I attended counselling a few times on my own, with someone who specialized in addictions and family counselling, and I didn't find it overly helpful. Partly because my fiance mocked me relentlessly for it and was quite angry when he found out that I had gone, and partly because I was (and potentially still am) in denial myself about what role I should play in all of this. The counsellor told me that he normally can't say this, but in my situation, he recommended that I leave the relationship because it was only getting worse, and did I want to tie myself to that for the rest of my life? Meaning, as we were not yet married, I had an easy out. I didn't find that helpful, as I had already committed to helping my fiance.
I have tried to get him to see a counsellor on numerous occasions, and his parents have tried as well, but he absolutely refuses. He will not even compromise and "try" one session. When I say he's in denial, I mean he's in complete 100% denial. Even though he drove drunk and almost killed himself....it still wasn't enough of a wake up call
But to your suggestion - how does Al Anon help? From what I've read on their site, it sounds quite depressing, and is basically about how to lessen the misery of living with an alcoholic and focus more on yourself....it sounds so bleak to me! In terms of making you see that the alcoholic is responsible for their own actions - does it help to distance yourself and ease the guilt of that?
I just want someone to tell me what to do. I no longer feel like I have any control in this situation, and as an A type "go-getter" who is used to leading and problem solving, this is especially tough to navigate
I attended counselling a few times on my own, with someone who specialized in addictions and family counselling, and I didn't find it overly helpful. Partly because my fiance mocked me relentlessly for it and was quite angry when he found out that I had gone, and partly because I was (and potentially still am) in denial myself about what role I should play in all of this. The counsellor told me that he normally can't say this, but in my situation, he recommended that I leave the relationship because it was only getting worse, and did I want to tie myself to that for the rest of my life? Meaning, as we were not yet married, I had an easy out. I didn't find that helpful, as I had already committed to helping my fiance.
I have tried to get him to see a counsellor on numerous occasions, and his parents have tried as well, but he absolutely refuses. He will not even compromise and "try" one session. When I say he's in denial, I mean he's in complete 100% denial. Even though he drove drunk and almost killed himself....it still wasn't enough of a wake up call
But to your suggestion - how does Al Anon help? From what I've read on their site, it sounds quite depressing, and is basically about how to lessen the misery of living with an alcoholic and focus more on yourself....it sounds so bleak to me! In terms of making you see that the alcoholic is responsible for their own actions - does it help to distance yourself and ease the guilt of that?
I just want someone to tell me what to do. I no longer feel like I have any control in this situation, and as an A type "go-getter" who is used to leading and problem solving, this is especially tough to navigate
Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 35
I understand , as I have been through a very similar situation. As I have had to find out myself, we cant help these guys. I have gone into counselling to learn more about my codependency issues and i suggest you do the same. It really helps to get perspective. I have tried to end it with mine, many times, but kept going back for the same reasons, ie the hopes, dreams, the potential , everything is fine when he's not drinking and he's a wonderful man who I love deeply. I ended it once and for all yesterday and I am feeling devastated with grief, but it really is the only way. I have to think about me and protecting myself, loving myself enough not to put up with the painful inconsistency , which doesn't even feel like love alot of the time ? Stay out of fantasy. See the situation for what it is and leave him. You do not owe him anything! Hes a grown man ! . You may need some support around you as he sounds like he won't go easily. He has to get his own help and admit he has a problem. You can't do that for him, so please think about saving yourself . Bless you and I really hope you get yourself a whole.lot happier and out of this awful situation you deserve more from a love relationship. Hugs 🌻🌼🌸
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
Hello SugarSpice, Welcome to SR!
Your story, sadly, reads like so many others around here. I am glad you are reaching out for help. You have found a place where people do understand.
My late husband and I tried everything we could think of to help his son--who is an alcoholic but will also abuse anything he can get his hands on. We finally accepted the sad truth that none of our efforts were working (rehab, counseling, group therapy...) because my stepson was simply not ready to stop drinking/using.
It makes me afraid for you that you continue to put of with the abuse this man dishes out. You absolutely *do not* deserve any of that. But just like my stepson, no one else can control your decision to remain in the relationship or to leave. That is entirely up to you.
I hope that you will, perhaps, consider going to counseling again. For yourself
Hang in there!
Your story, sadly, reads like so many others around here. I am glad you are reaching out for help. You have found a place where people do understand.
My late husband and I tried everything we could think of to help his son--who is an alcoholic but will also abuse anything he can get his hands on. We finally accepted the sad truth that none of our efforts were working (rehab, counseling, group therapy...) because my stepson was simply not ready to stop drinking/using.
It makes me afraid for you that you continue to put of with the abuse this man dishes out. You absolutely *do not* deserve any of that. But just like my stepson, no one else can control your decision to remain in the relationship or to leave. That is entirely up to you.
I hope that you will, perhaps, consider going to counseling again. For yourself
Hang in there!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 5
Your story is so similar to mine in many respects
I urge you to put yourself as a priority - read all you can about alcoholism and domestic abuse
They are often seen together but are two separate issues
Read Lundy Bancroft - why does he do that
Read up on co-dependence
Try al- anon and just take what you want and leave the rest - I went for a while and learnt a great deal
Denial is so strong on both parts
My husband denies he has a problem even though he has drank everyday for the last 20 years, he drink at least a bottle of vodka a day now, has lost his health, his career, his memory, he has a DUI - not his fault by the way - he was stressed that is why he drove around in a car and smashed it up after having drank a bottle of vodka! He denied it even after a physical detox in hospital, and a 8 week stay on the mental ward (he continued to go out of the hospital and buy vodka) he denies it even though the consultant psychiatrist told him he only had fairly minor mental issues which could be addressed by a low dose of antidepressants - and what he needed to do was stop drinking, take the antidepressant and then address his ‘issues’ in therapy. He says there was no need for him to be physically detoxed and doctors did not know what they were doing.
I was still with him at this point - me in denial too - Denial that I could help him
Then it escalated quick - blaming our 10 year old daughter for drinking a bottle of wine and putting the cork back in - it wasn’t him so it must have been her! Then verbal abuse lead to pushing me, not letting me out of rooms then threats with knifes then suicide threats if I left
For my child’s and my own mental emotional and physical well being I could no longer stay. I left. He did not kill himself. He just carried on drinking. When others started to realise he had a problem he said he had only started drinking at that level because of what an awful person I was- I was to blame for him going off the rails drink wise. I decide I did not want a life with an abusive active alcoholic and the fact that he was still in denial meant even if he started a sober journey next day if would be years and years of work focusing on himself - but more likely years and years before he even attempted to get clean - it is 18 months now he has lost his wife and kid and he is still drinking not even attempting to get clean - I wanted more for me and my child - looking back now I see that he was abusive throughout our relationship and even sober I doubt that would change - Lundy Bancroft helped me understand that they know exactly what they are doing when they abuse you - drinking is not the reason - it is just an excuse they use to justify their bad behaviour- that broke my heart as I had believed he was a good guy apart from the drink - but ultimately it may have saved mylife and definitely means my daughter will grow up in a more healthy environment
I respect anyones own decision to leave or stay - this is just my story I left and it has been the best decision I ever made even though he has sort to make our life a misery since. My child and I are now safe
I am also a successful career woman but my confidence was at rock bottom for many years - he (we) burned through all of the wealth I brought to the relationship and created whilst married - he did not bring anything - he destroyed our family business via his drinking - I had my part to play in this as I did not trust my own instincts and allowed myself to ignore mounting evidence in the hope of keeping my dream of what I wanted our life and relationship to be like alive.
Rather than a happy healthy wealthy and stable and loving family unit I wanted and hoped for he will not even provide half of the costs for his daughter- he sees that as providing for me. Though he can spend vast amounts of himself drinking and buying designer shoes/ clothes. He reaches new lows regularly- and blames everyone other than himself.
Like a lot of people he does have ‘issues’ from his FOO his mother is an alcoholic in denial and his father a controlling individual both of whom struggled to show they loved him when he was a child. I feel deeply for him about this as I always had the unconditional love of my mother growing up.
I find he uses his issues as excuses to keep drinking and being abusive
Though as a 47 man and someone who chose to bring another life into this world I believe he should have the maturity to look at, deal with and resolve those issue within himself- we are all capable of that.
My father left me when I was a baby - at 5 he told mother he wanted nothing to do with me and I never saw him again, I was raped at 10 - none of those do I use for an excuse to abuse another person- or not to look after my child - of blame others - I worked on myself and my issue throughout my life - I evolved I developed. Lundy help me realise that those issue may well have lead me to stay with my abusive alcoholic husband longer than most people.
Forgive me for being direct but the behaviours you speak of seem clearly abusive to me and regardless of whether you love the guy, feel sorry for his hard life, and want to help him you must seriously consider your own safety - things can escalate very quickly
Just my story - take what you like and leave the rest
Be safe
I urge you to put yourself as a priority - read all you can about alcoholism and domestic abuse
They are often seen together but are two separate issues
Read Lundy Bancroft - why does he do that
Read up on co-dependence
Try al- anon and just take what you want and leave the rest - I went for a while and learnt a great deal
Denial is so strong on both parts
My husband denies he has a problem even though he has drank everyday for the last 20 years, he drink at least a bottle of vodka a day now, has lost his health, his career, his memory, he has a DUI - not his fault by the way - he was stressed that is why he drove around in a car and smashed it up after having drank a bottle of vodka! He denied it even after a physical detox in hospital, and a 8 week stay on the mental ward (he continued to go out of the hospital and buy vodka) he denies it even though the consultant psychiatrist told him he only had fairly minor mental issues which could be addressed by a low dose of antidepressants - and what he needed to do was stop drinking, take the antidepressant and then address his ‘issues’ in therapy. He says there was no need for him to be physically detoxed and doctors did not know what they were doing.
I was still with him at this point - me in denial too - Denial that I could help him
Then it escalated quick - blaming our 10 year old daughter for drinking a bottle of wine and putting the cork back in - it wasn’t him so it must have been her! Then verbal abuse lead to pushing me, not letting me out of rooms then threats with knifes then suicide threats if I left
For my child’s and my own mental emotional and physical well being I could no longer stay. I left. He did not kill himself. He just carried on drinking. When others started to realise he had a problem he said he had only started drinking at that level because of what an awful person I was- I was to blame for him going off the rails drink wise. I decide I did not want a life with an abusive active alcoholic and the fact that he was still in denial meant even if he started a sober journey next day if would be years and years of work focusing on himself - but more likely years and years before he even attempted to get clean - it is 18 months now he has lost his wife and kid and he is still drinking not even attempting to get clean - I wanted more for me and my child - looking back now I see that he was abusive throughout our relationship and even sober I doubt that would change - Lundy Bancroft helped me understand that they know exactly what they are doing when they abuse you - drinking is not the reason - it is just an excuse they use to justify their bad behaviour- that broke my heart as I had believed he was a good guy apart from the drink - but ultimately it may have saved mylife and definitely means my daughter will grow up in a more healthy environment
I respect anyones own decision to leave or stay - this is just my story I left and it has been the best decision I ever made even though he has sort to make our life a misery since. My child and I are now safe
I am also a successful career woman but my confidence was at rock bottom for many years - he (we) burned through all of the wealth I brought to the relationship and created whilst married - he did not bring anything - he destroyed our family business via his drinking - I had my part to play in this as I did not trust my own instincts and allowed myself to ignore mounting evidence in the hope of keeping my dream of what I wanted our life and relationship to be like alive.
Rather than a happy healthy wealthy and stable and loving family unit I wanted and hoped for he will not even provide half of the costs for his daughter- he sees that as providing for me. Though he can spend vast amounts of himself drinking and buying designer shoes/ clothes. He reaches new lows regularly- and blames everyone other than himself.
Like a lot of people he does have ‘issues’ from his FOO his mother is an alcoholic in denial and his father a controlling individual both of whom struggled to show they loved him when he was a child. I feel deeply for him about this as I always had the unconditional love of my mother growing up.
I find he uses his issues as excuses to keep drinking and being abusive
Though as a 47 man and someone who chose to bring another life into this world I believe he should have the maturity to look at, deal with and resolve those issue within himself- we are all capable of that.
My father left me when I was a baby - at 5 he told mother he wanted nothing to do with me and I never saw him again, I was raped at 10 - none of those do I use for an excuse to abuse another person- or not to look after my child - of blame others - I worked on myself and my issue throughout my life - I evolved I developed. Lundy help me realise that those issue may well have lead me to stay with my abusive alcoholic husband longer than most people.
Forgive me for being direct but the behaviours you speak of seem clearly abusive to me and regardless of whether you love the guy, feel sorry for his hard life, and want to help him you must seriously consider your own safety - things can escalate very quickly
Just my story - take what you like and leave the rest
Be safe
Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 124
This is my story. Take what you can and leave the rest.
I met my husband when I was 25 and in school. He was 31. We
Lived in different cities. We would see each other often but not often enough for me to realise what was going on.
We got married after a year and a half of dating. He was the most wonderful man. When we went out ,we would both drink . There were couple of instances where he had a little more to drink but I attributed that to us being out with friends and having a good time. After I moved into our home , I saw couple of instances of him being overly drunk but he would of course have an excuse the next day and obviously I was the one who was the problem maker and the cause according to him. He blamed everything from my hormonal changes and acting up to me being fat to me being lazy to me not contributing financially to our home (I was right out of school and we had made a financial decision to put my income
Towards student loans and to use his income for our home expenses till my loan was paid off ). He is a very very high functioning alcoholic with an amazing career. Behind closed doors, I was between him and his alcohol and other addictions. He tried on his own to cut back on alcohol and was successful to moderating it to weekend but he would drink till
Oblivion through the weekend and then stop on Sunday afternoon because he needed to detox for work on Monday . Nevermind the booze reeking from his pores. He is 36 now. After many instances of him creating a scene to being neglectful towards to , to verbal and physical abuse and finally to me finding him in the closet with a bottle of vodka to his mouth, my denial broke. I was fortunate that someone held my hand and took me to al anon when I hit rock bottom. I attend open AA meetings to understand the disease. I filed for divorce a year ago. My career was ruined by then. My in laws needed me to be his caretaker and he eventually told me that why did he need me around if I wasn't going to cook and clean. I worked 10 hours a day , got home and walked the dog , cooked us good , took care of groceries and everything around the house while he sat in front of the tv drinking the whole weekend .
Ask yourself , is this the life you want ? You deserve someone who can be a partner. Alcoholics are not emotionally matured to be partners. They are manipulators and abusers. That's what they do. You are between his first love and him.
I have seen this disease progress . The broken doors and the horrible fights every month. Is this what you will want your kids to see in the future ? I grew up in an abusive home and for the longest time I did not even recognized abuse because it seemed normal. Please please do yourself a favor and get out while you can. Yes it is painful to watch someone else go down the spiral but he will take you with him. You did not cause it , you cannot control it and you definitely cannot cure it.
You leaving may or may not be his rock bottom ( probably not - he seems to be using you). My husband did not batter an eyelid when I left. 5 years of marriage . He moved on with another woman who would support his habit while we are still in the middle of our divorce. If I could stop anyone from having to go through what I did , I would do it everyday. But I have no control over that too.
Hugs
I met my husband when I was 25 and in school. He was 31. We
Lived in different cities. We would see each other often but not often enough for me to realise what was going on.
We got married after a year and a half of dating. He was the most wonderful man. When we went out ,we would both drink . There were couple of instances where he had a little more to drink but I attributed that to us being out with friends and having a good time. After I moved into our home , I saw couple of instances of him being overly drunk but he would of course have an excuse the next day and obviously I was the one who was the problem maker and the cause according to him. He blamed everything from my hormonal changes and acting up to me being fat to me being lazy to me not contributing financially to our home (I was right out of school and we had made a financial decision to put my income
Towards student loans and to use his income for our home expenses till my loan was paid off ). He is a very very high functioning alcoholic with an amazing career. Behind closed doors, I was between him and his alcohol and other addictions. He tried on his own to cut back on alcohol and was successful to moderating it to weekend but he would drink till
Oblivion through the weekend and then stop on Sunday afternoon because he needed to detox for work on Monday . Nevermind the booze reeking from his pores. He is 36 now. After many instances of him creating a scene to being neglectful towards to , to verbal and physical abuse and finally to me finding him in the closet with a bottle of vodka to his mouth, my denial broke. I was fortunate that someone held my hand and took me to al anon when I hit rock bottom. I attend open AA meetings to understand the disease. I filed for divorce a year ago. My career was ruined by then. My in laws needed me to be his caretaker and he eventually told me that why did he need me around if I wasn't going to cook and clean. I worked 10 hours a day , got home and walked the dog , cooked us good , took care of groceries and everything around the house while he sat in front of the tv drinking the whole weekend .
Ask yourself , is this the life you want ? You deserve someone who can be a partner. Alcoholics are not emotionally matured to be partners. They are manipulators and abusers. That's what they do. You are between his first love and him.
I have seen this disease progress . The broken doors and the horrible fights every month. Is this what you will want your kids to see in the future ? I grew up in an abusive home and for the longest time I did not even recognized abuse because it seemed normal. Please please do yourself a favor and get out while you can. Yes it is painful to watch someone else go down the spiral but he will take you with him. You did not cause it , you cannot control it and you definitely cannot cure it.
You leaving may or may not be his rock bottom ( probably not - he seems to be using you). My husband did not batter an eyelid when I left. 5 years of marriage . He moved on with another woman who would support his habit while we are still in the middle of our divorce. If I could stop anyone from having to go through what I did , I would do it everyday. But I have no control over that too.
Hugs
Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: East Coast
Posts: 1,235
It started off promisingly; he stopped drinking for the longest stretch yet (2.5 months) and poured himself into his work. But it didn't sell, and he didn't achieve the fame/success that he thought he was entitled to.
I know that you are committed to this relationship and that you don't want to leave him, but at the same time you do not want to spend your life being his emotional babysitter.
Unfortunately, I also have friends who have taken on this role and they have become so beaten and weary they might as well be dead. They've sacrificed the love of their family and friends for the "love" of someone who treats them like trash. My own sister, who has her own substance use issues, threw her marriage and self-respect down the drain to be with a 40 something man who still lived with his parents. She and he spent nearly a decade working on a business that failed - frankly, with all the pot they smoked, they were most likely just actively working three months out of the year. Her children now live with my parents, and my sister's too embarrassed to say anything about him. Too many people warned her, and she doesn't want to admit that they were probably right.
I have another friend who TWICE moved 1000 plus miles to follow her partner, who was unemployed but looking for a geographical escape. She ended up literally busting her back because she was the primary breadwinner and took on a physically demanding job that require too much of her. The last time she visited her family on the opposite coast, her boyfriend only let her visit for three hours. I'm sure he threatened to break up with her or do something just as emotionally manipulative so she'd listen. It is sad and painful to watch to see her destroy her dreams in slow motion.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
Originally Posted by SugarSpice 
I just want someone to tell me what to do. I no longer feel like I have any control in this situation, and as an A type "go-getter" who is used to leading and problem solving, this is especially tough to navigate
I think, my friend, the denial you need to focus on right now is your own. You are not his mother. He is an adult--he survived before you came into his life and he will survive after you leave it as well. It is a little insulting to insist that you are responsible for keeping him afloat. As an artist myself, I have found a way to practice my craft without finding someone to take care of me. Because I'm an adult, and that's what adults do.
There is recovery from alcoholism, but it can't even get started until the addict is willing to admit they have a problem.
There is also recovery from codependency, or codependent behavior, but it can't get started until the person is willing to admit they have a problem.
You are right that this is an especially tough problem to navigate, especially when we look at it from a common sense, logical perspective. But addiction is not logical, which is why people continue to use and drink long after they have begun to experience negative consequences from their behavior. There is nothing you can do or say to control that timeline, or help him see the light. The very best thing you can do is see to your own peace and well-being, and it doesn't sound like you can have long-term serenity while you are committed to trying to save someone who does not want to be saved.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
Hi, SugarSpice.
Welcome.
Lots of support here.
Your post, to me, reads like the alcohol addict’s playbook.
Your fiance doesn’t work. He drinks.
You support him, economically and emotionally. He drinks.
He is verbally abusive.
And he drinks.
Honestly, is there anything remotely good about this person?
I second others’ recommendations to try Al-Anon. It could be a game changer for you.
And learn as much as you can about alcohol addiction.
Your takeaway, I think, will be that you can’t control him, you can only control you.
You sound like a very clear headed person who recognizes that this is not, repeat, not, a healthy relationship.
You are fortunate in that you are not tied financially to this man.
I would, however, consider how much of the money you earn is going down his throat on a daily basis.
Good luck and good thoughts.
Welcome.
Lots of support here.
Your post, to me, reads like the alcohol addict’s playbook.
Your fiance doesn’t work. He drinks.
You support him, economically and emotionally. He drinks.
He is verbally abusive.
And he drinks.
Honestly, is there anything remotely good about this person?
I second others’ recommendations to try Al-Anon. It could be a game changer for you.
And learn as much as you can about alcohol addiction.
Your takeaway, I think, will be that you can’t control him, you can only control you.
You sound like a very clear headed person who recognizes that this is not, repeat, not, a healthy relationship.
You are fortunate in that you are not tied financially to this man.
I would, however, consider how much of the money you earn is going down his throat on a daily basis.
Good luck and good thoughts.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Originally Posted by SugarSpice
But to your suggestion - how does Al Anon help? From what I've read on their site, it sounds quite depressing, and is basically about how to lessen the misery of living with an alcoholic and focus more on yourself....it sounds so bleak to me! In terms of making you see that the alcoholic is responsible for their own actions - does it help to distance yourself and ease the guilt of that?
Personally, I haven't ever been to an Alanon meeting I'd describe as "bleak." Some were more to my liking than others, but I don't know that I ever left one thinking "that was a waste of time, and I'm sorry I went."
Just as the A needs education, inspiration and support to get sober, we over here on this side of the fence need those same things ourselves. SR and Alanon supplied them for me, and from each one I took what I needed most at any given time.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Western US
Posts: 9,002
Welcome Sugarspice. I'm so glad you found us and hope we can be supportive.
If possible bring your Type A personality to the task of educating yourself about alcoholism. The stickied articles at the top of the forum are a great place to start. Also the book Codependent No More is a bit of a bible around here.
I understand why you might find the message of Alanon depressing. Most of us wanted to know how we could change our alcoholics and it was horrible to find out that it wasn't possible. There is a solution to this problem, but likely not one you will like. None of us did.
Courage to you lady. This is an excruciatingly painful situation you are in.
If possible bring your Type A personality to the task of educating yourself about alcoholism. The stickied articles at the top of the forum are a great place to start. Also the book Codependent No More is a bit of a bible around here.
I understand why you might find the message of Alanon depressing. Most of us wanted to know how we could change our alcoholics and it was horrible to find out that it wasn't possible. There is a solution to this problem, but likely not one you will like. None of us did.
Courage to you lady. This is an excruciatingly painful situation you are in.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The Beach
Posts: 1,106
Sorry you had to find us, but I am glad you did. I hope you stick around.
I echo what everyone else has advised. Please concentrate on educating yourself about codependence and alcoholism. You can't possibly love or force him to want to get better, but you can commit to creating a better life for yourself. Many of us here are still in that process, many of us here have succeeded at it. Some of us have stayed with our qualifiers and some of us left, each of us has our own path, but life is definitely better when we realize it isn't just the alcoholic that has a problem that needs changing. It's not easy to change, but it is worth it.
I was in denial of my codependence for a LONG time. I never felt I was any part of the problem. He drank dammit, therefore he is the one with the behavior problem!... while that was true, it was not the entire truth. I was very much to blame for my part in our extremely dysfunctional relationship. I contributed a great amount of my own chaos into the situation because I didn't understand that all my "helping" was in no way actually helping anyone, him or me. In fact I was making it worse, for both of us.
I read through your post and was appalled by the emotional blackmail and straight up manipulation this man pulls on you. You are aware that it is abuse because you said so, and you are very much correct. I went back and started counting how many time you mentioned him being abusive in this way and I stopped in your 5th paragraph, after I got to a DOZEN I didn't figure it was really necessary that I keep counting any further. Please consider why you would want to subject yourself to this kind of behavior. What amazing quality could this person, or any person, possibly possess that would you allow this kind of abuse into your life? You do not deserve to be treated like this. You deserve more respect.... not only from him but from YOURSELF as well.
Codependency No More, by Melody Beattie... was a life changing read for me.
Learning about erecting boundaries for myself was instead of trying to enforce rules on him was a huge game changer as well.
I hope you hang around with us Sugarspice.
Hugs
I echo what everyone else has advised. Please concentrate on educating yourself about codependence and alcoholism. You can't possibly love or force him to want to get better, but you can commit to creating a better life for yourself. Many of us here are still in that process, many of us here have succeeded at it. Some of us have stayed with our qualifiers and some of us left, each of us has our own path, but life is definitely better when we realize it isn't just the alcoholic that has a problem that needs changing. It's not easy to change, but it is worth it.
I was in denial of my codependence for a LONG time. I never felt I was any part of the problem. He drank dammit, therefore he is the one with the behavior problem!... while that was true, it was not the entire truth. I was very much to blame for my part in our extremely dysfunctional relationship. I contributed a great amount of my own chaos into the situation because I didn't understand that all my "helping" was in no way actually helping anyone, him or me. In fact I was making it worse, for both of us.
I read through your post and was appalled by the emotional blackmail and straight up manipulation this man pulls on you. You are aware that it is abuse because you said so, and you are very much correct. I went back and started counting how many time you mentioned him being abusive in this way and I stopped in your 5th paragraph, after I got to a DOZEN I didn't figure it was really necessary that I keep counting any further. Please consider why you would want to subject yourself to this kind of behavior. What amazing quality could this person, or any person, possibly possess that would you allow this kind of abuse into your life? You do not deserve to be treated like this. You deserve more respect.... not only from him but from YOURSELF as well.
Codependency No More, by Melody Beattie... was a life changing read for me.
Learning about erecting boundaries for myself was instead of trying to enforce rules on him was a huge game changer as well.
I hope you hang around with us Sugarspice.
Hugs
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
I would greatly appreciate your personal insights,
"because I was (and potentially still am) in denial myself about what role I should play in all of this."
the therapist told you the part you play:
he recommended that I leave the relationship because it was only getting worse, and did I want to tie myself to that for the rest of my life
I have tried to get him to see a counsellor on numerous occasions, and his parents have tried as well, but he absolutely refuses. He will not even compromise and "try" one session
why should he see a counselor or get any type of help? he has people enabling him and babying him so has no reason to grow up.
how does Al Anon help? From what I've read on their site, it sounds quite depressing, and is basically about how to lessen the misery of living with an alcoholic and focus more on yourself....it sounds so bleak to me! In terms of making you see that the alcoholic is responsible for their own actions - does it help to distance yourself and ease the guilt of that?
and trying to save the alkie and be 100% consumed by the alkie isnt bleak???? helping dig his grave isnt bleak?
check out al anon. give it a month worth of as many meetings as you can attend and read the literature. talk to others in al anon. go out to coffee with them.
it very well could be the best decision you make.
"because I was (and potentially still am) in denial myself about what role I should play in all of this."
the therapist told you the part you play:
he recommended that I leave the relationship because it was only getting worse, and did I want to tie myself to that for the rest of my life
I have tried to get him to see a counsellor on numerous occasions, and his parents have tried as well, but he absolutely refuses. He will not even compromise and "try" one session
why should he see a counselor or get any type of help? he has people enabling him and babying him so has no reason to grow up.
how does Al Anon help? From what I've read on their site, it sounds quite depressing, and is basically about how to lessen the misery of living with an alcoholic and focus more on yourself....it sounds so bleak to me! In terms of making you see that the alcoholic is responsible for their own actions - does it help to distance yourself and ease the guilt of that?
and trying to save the alkie and be 100% consumed by the alkie isnt bleak???? helping dig his grave isnt bleak?
check out al anon. give it a month worth of as many meetings as you can attend and read the literature. talk to others in al anon. go out to coffee with them.
it very well could be the best decision you make.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
SugarSpice.......I am giving you the following link to our extensive library of excellent articles on alcoholism and the effects on the loved ones....there are a lot...about 100...enough to read one every single day...lol...
There is so much to know......and, knowledge is power....
There is so much to know......and, knowledge is power....
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Originally Posted by dandylion
SugarSpice.......I am giving you the following link to our extensive library of excellent articles on alcoholism and the effects on the loved ones....there are a lot...about 100...enough to read one every single day...lol...
There is so much to know......and, knowledge is power....
There is so much to know......and, knowledge is power....
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
