Can alcoholics Love? Do they hate themselves?
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Love? Active alcoholics do love the bottle above all else; it is their Higher Power, great love of their lives. The few that get and stay sober may love others after a sufficient amount of hard work and time. I've aptly heard it called the "M&M disease": me and more.
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Originally Posted by NYCDoglvr 
Love? Active alcoholics do love the bottle above all else; it is their Higher Power, great love of their lives. The few that get and stay sober may love others after a sufficient amount of hard work and time. I've aptly heard it called the "M&M disease": me and more.
There are many pieces and parts to this healing process. I feel like Alanon will help me put some order to it. Headed to a meeting, this week.
Thank you!
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>>I obviously am at the very beginning of this journey in understanding the alcoholic and myself in conjuction. I appreciate any input or resources you might have.<<
Emotions are the primary drivers of our behavior. All addictions, serve an emotional purpose. Addictions are not just substance abuses (drugs, alcohol), but also behaviors. You can’t get addicted to a substance or behavior that doesn’t do something for you. In humans, the common denominator behind any compulsive behavior is the desire for a, “quick fix or mood changer,” for how we feel, the need to feel better. Addictive behavior is learned, there is always a reason and a reward. Whatever is rewarded gets repeated.
The purpose of any addiction is to regain control over intolerably helpless-trapped-powerless feelings, an emotional state. This helplessness is always rooted in something deeply important to the individual.
We always have a binary choice. We can regain control of helpless feelings with displaced substitute behaviors (quick fixes or mood changers of drugs or other behaviors), or direct healthy behaviors that empower us. What humans really seek is a sense of control. What we really seek is not a drink, a drug, porn or a bet, but a sense of empowerment, in the face of feeling helpless.
Emotions are the primary drivers of our behavior. All addictions, serve an emotional purpose. Addictions are not just substance abuses (drugs, alcohol), but also behaviors. You can’t get addicted to a substance or behavior that doesn’t do something for you. In humans, the common denominator behind any compulsive behavior is the desire for a, “quick fix or mood changer,” for how we feel, the need to feel better. Addictive behavior is learned, there is always a reason and a reward. Whatever is rewarded gets repeated.
The purpose of any addiction is to regain control over intolerably helpless-trapped-powerless feelings, an emotional state. This helplessness is always rooted in something deeply important to the individual.
We always have a binary choice. We can regain control of helpless feelings with displaced substitute behaviors (quick fixes or mood changers of drugs or other behaviors), or direct healthy behaviors that empower us. What humans really seek is a sense of control. What we really seek is not a drink, a drug, porn or a bet, but a sense of empowerment, in the face of feeling helpless.
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Posts: 11,417
I really started abusing alcohol due to caregiving my alcoholic mother alone.
Because I loved her, and witnessing her self-destruction and also her selfish acts towards me and others, I became a full-blown alcoholic to drown the pain of that.
That suggests I was capable of "love" and not a machine or unfeeling, self-absorbed creature because I continued to love, hurt, and care for her even
while I was in the midst of addictive drinking.
I think this reductionist thinking that all alcoholics are this or that,
are all liars, are all (you-fill-in-your-particular-blank) is
often unfair and divides rather than enlightens / empowers.
There is always a unique context, and there are always more complexities than can be easily quantified.
I agree that there is a common thread of selfishness and lying with addicts in general, but as someone who is a triple winner, I really am offended
by some of the assumptions of "facts" that are really not backed up by data.
Your experience is yours and valuable, but there are many cases and experiences which vary greatly.
I've met plenty of folks who may not have addiction problems but cannot connect or love others for other reasons.
They aren't all one uniform group either.
Landmarks aren't maps.
Because I loved her, and witnessing her self-destruction and also her selfish acts towards me and others, I became a full-blown alcoholic to drown the pain of that.
That suggests I was capable of "love" and not a machine or unfeeling, self-absorbed creature because I continued to love, hurt, and care for her even
while I was in the midst of addictive drinking.
I think this reductionist thinking that all alcoholics are this or that,
are all liars, are all (you-fill-in-your-particular-blank) is
often unfair and divides rather than enlightens / empowers.
There is always a unique context, and there are always more complexities than can be easily quantified.
I agree that there is a common thread of selfishness and lying with addicts in general, but as someone who is a triple winner, I really am offended
by some of the assumptions of "facts" that are really not backed up by data.
Your experience is yours and valuable, but there are many cases and experiences which vary greatly.
I've met plenty of folks who may not have addiction problems but cannot connect or love others for other reasons.
They aren't all one uniform group either.
Landmarks aren't maps.
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Posts: 90
Originally Posted by CRRHCC
>>I obviously am at the very beginning of this journey in understanding the alcoholic and myself in conjuction. I appreciate any input or resources you might have.<<
Emotions are the primary drivers of our behavior. All addictions, serve an emotional purpose. Addictions are not just substance abuses (drugs, alcohol), but also behaviors. You can’t get addicted to a substance or behavior that doesn’t do something for you. In humans, the common denominator behind any compulsive behavior is the desire for a, “quick fix or mood changer,” for how we feel, the need to feel better. Addictive behavior is learned, there is always a reason and a reward. Whatever is rewarded gets repeated.
The purpose of any addiction is to regain control over intolerably helpless-trapped-powerless feelings, an emotional state. This helplessness is always rooted in something deeply important to the individual.
We always have a binary choice. We can regain control of helpless feelings with displaced substitute behaviors (quick fixes or mood changers of drugs or other behaviors), or direct healthy behaviors that empower us. What humans really seek is a sense of control. What we really seek is not a drink, a drug, porn or a bet, but a sense of empowerment, in the face of feeling helpless.
Emotions are the primary drivers of our behavior. All addictions, serve an emotional purpose. Addictions are not just substance abuses (drugs, alcohol), but also behaviors. You can’t get addicted to a substance or behavior that doesn’t do something for you. In humans, the common denominator behind any compulsive behavior is the desire for a, “quick fix or mood changer,” for how we feel, the need to feel better. Addictive behavior is learned, there is always a reason and a reward. Whatever is rewarded gets repeated.
The purpose of any addiction is to regain control over intolerably helpless-trapped-powerless feelings, an emotional state. This helplessness is always rooted in something deeply important to the individual.
We always have a binary choice. We can regain control of helpless feelings with displaced substitute behaviors (quick fixes or mood changers of drugs or other behaviors), or direct healthy behaviors that empower us. What humans really seek is a sense of control. What we really seek is not a drink, a drug, porn or a bet, but a sense of empowerment, in the face of feeling helpless.
Thank you so much for posting this. I feel like I'll keep coming back to it...in that every time I read it, I feel like I will get something else out of it.
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Originally Posted by Hawkeye13
I really started abusing alcohol due to caregiving my alcoholic mother alone.
Because I loved her, and witnessing her self-destruction and also her selfish acts towards me and others, I became a full-blown alcoholic to drown the pain of that.
That suggests I was capable of "love" and not a machine or unfeeling, self-absorbed creature because I continued to love, hurt, and care for her even
while I was in the midst of addictive drinking.
I think this reductionist thinking that all alcoholics are this or that,
are all liars, are all (you-fill-in-your-particular-blank) is
often unfair and divides rather than enlightens / empowers.
There is always a unique context, and there are always more complexities than can be easily quantified.
I agree that there is a common thread of selfishness and lying with addicts in general, but as someone who is a triple winner, I really am offended
by some of the assumptions of "facts" that are really not backed up by data.
Your experience is yours and valuable, but there are many cases and experiences which vary greatly.
I've met plenty of folks who may not have addiction problems but cannot connect or love others for other reasons.
They aren't all one uniform group either.
Landmarks aren't maps.
Because I loved her, and witnessing her self-destruction and also her selfish acts towards me and others, I became a full-blown alcoholic to drown the pain of that.
That suggests I was capable of "love" and not a machine or unfeeling, self-absorbed creature because I continued to love, hurt, and care for her even
while I was in the midst of addictive drinking.
I think this reductionist thinking that all alcoholics are this or that,
are all liars, are all (you-fill-in-your-particular-blank) is
often unfair and divides rather than enlightens / empowers.
There is always a unique context, and there are always more complexities than can be easily quantified.
I agree that there is a common thread of selfishness and lying with addicts in general, but as someone who is a triple winner, I really am offended
by some of the assumptions of "facts" that are really not backed up by data.
Your experience is yours and valuable, but there are many cases and experiences which vary greatly.
I've met plenty of folks who may not have addiction problems but cannot connect or love others for other reasons.
They aren't all one uniform group either.
Landmarks aren't maps.
Caring for a parent is a difficult and emotionally draining task. I can relate, in that my mom was a smoker. Her health was failing and, as the youngest of 5-children, I ended up taking on the role of her caregiver. My older siblings were incredibly angry with her. I played middle man to keep the peace. She did manage to quit smoking the last 6-years of her life. I was so proud of her! But it was a very difficult road to the end. I lived with her for 2 years, before she moved into assisted living for her last 2-years. She is sorely missed. I am a typical codie, because of it all.
I had posted earlier, another post, with my AXBF's story. It's crazy long...but it's here. https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...time-post.html (So hard to walk away - First Time Post)
I am leaning toward that fact that he is likely a sociopath who just so happens to have a drinking problem.
My AXBF even said, "It's just easier to lie to you". He would pit me against other women, putting me in competition with them. It was awful. I have known other alcoholics and many of them are so kind and generous of heart. I think my AXBF has something more going on.
Thank you, again, for sharing.
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Our addicts are human & I believe in my experience they are capable of love. That love however gets sometimes lost & twisted in their addicted brain. Its real - but it has to be thought of by us in the context of an addict.
Someone earlier brought up concerning emotional growth stopping in our addicts at the point where addiction sets in. Therefore if addiction started at an early age, our addicts can be very immature at times. From my experience, I believe this to be very true.
Its important to remember that the powerful drugs they use heavily masks their pain. They don't feel the pain like we do. We are not taking drugs, so when they hurt us badly we feel the pain. It hurts like hell.
We are capable of hurting them however the pain they feel is short lived & to a much lesser extent than what a normal brain would feel. Hence, they move on quickly after a break up. They aren't feeling the raw emotions of it like we do.
She said to me countless times: "I am sorry I didn't mean to hurt you" I would respond how could you not know you hurt me badly. She never had a good answer. I don't believe she would do things on purpose to hurt me.
If you look at it from our side of the fence for those of us who become addicted to the addict, our love for them gets twisted up in our brains & becomes unhealthy. Our brains are not functioning normally. We become obsessed with our addicts & do all types of illogical things we would not normally do. Our love is also all twisted up. Is it real for us - yes! Is it all messed up in our brains - yes!
Every situation is different. In my case I believe she can & does love. Its as real as it can be given the unique the mind of an addict.
Yes I also know they are very capable to make sh*t up & lying their as* off when needed.
Someone earlier brought up concerning emotional growth stopping in our addicts at the point where addiction sets in. Therefore if addiction started at an early age, our addicts can be very immature at times. From my experience, I believe this to be very true.
Its important to remember that the powerful drugs they use heavily masks their pain. They don't feel the pain like we do. We are not taking drugs, so when they hurt us badly we feel the pain. It hurts like hell.
We are capable of hurting them however the pain they feel is short lived & to a much lesser extent than what a normal brain would feel. Hence, they move on quickly after a break up. They aren't feeling the raw emotions of it like we do.
She said to me countless times: "I am sorry I didn't mean to hurt you" I would respond how could you not know you hurt me badly. She never had a good answer. I don't believe she would do things on purpose to hurt me.
If you look at it from our side of the fence for those of us who become addicted to the addict, our love for them gets twisted up in our brains & becomes unhealthy. Our brains are not functioning normally. We become obsessed with our addicts & do all types of illogical things we would not normally do. Our love is also all twisted up. Is it real for us - yes! Is it all messed up in our brains - yes!
Every situation is different. In my case I believe she can & does love. Its as real as it can be given the unique the mind of an addict.
Yes I also know they are very capable to make sh*t up & lying their as* off when needed.
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"Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."
My marriage was not going well at the end of Late Husband's life. He was dismissive. he was rude. He had time to talk to anyone except me. I had recorded in a journal that I overheard him talking to a friend before he died, asking said friend to look after me.
I know this because I wrote it down, and because the friend mentioned it. Sadly, I don't *actually* remember it, which makes me sad.
My marriage was not going well at the end of Late Husband's life. He was dismissive. he was rude. He had time to talk to anyone except me. I had recorded in a journal that I overheard him talking to a friend before he died, asking said friend to look after me.
I know this because I wrote it down, and because the friend mentioned it. Sadly, I don't *actually* remember it, which makes me sad.
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Originally Posted by PhoenixRising211
Good morning,
These questions arose, this weekend, on a road trip I took to Moab. Lots of time in the car, plenty of time to think.
I'm sure they've probably been answered somewhere on the forum, already. If you have links to those threads, that would be lovely. I don't want to make you all repeat yourselves.
I was just wondering if alcoholics are capable of loving? My AXBF was putting whiskey in his coffee, every morning and 10-20 beers or more, per day. Can they really love if they're always numbing out like that and no time for introspection?
With that in mind, I mentioned to a friend (who admits to being an A) how much he was drinking, and her response was "man, he must really hate himself". But I read on a forum somewhere else, some weeks back, that A's had said that's not why they drank. Thoughts?
I obviously am at the very beginning of this journey in understanding the alcoholic and myself in conjuction. I appreciate any input or resources you might have.
Thank you!
These questions arose, this weekend, on a road trip I took to Moab. Lots of time in the car, plenty of time to think.
I'm sure they've probably been answered somewhere on the forum, already. If you have links to those threads, that would be lovely. I don't want to make you all repeat yourselves.
I was just wondering if alcoholics are capable of loving? My AXBF was putting whiskey in his coffee, every morning and 10-20 beers or more, per day. Can they really love if they're always numbing out like that and no time for introspection?
With that in mind, I mentioned to a friend (who admits to being an A) how much he was drinking, and her response was "man, he must really hate himself". But I read on a forum somewhere else, some weeks back, that A's had said that's not why they drank. Thoughts?
I obviously am at the very beginning of this journey in understanding the alcoholic and myself in conjuction. I appreciate any input or resources you might have.
Thank you!
So I only think in terms of what a specific individual is capable of... and love, I think its given in form that may be specific to each person.
And this goes for anyone, not just those who drink too much. People who have mental disorders, who have a pattern of dysfunctional relationships, who are obsessed with their work, or are too emotionally needy, etc.
I like to think feelings can be genuine but it may not constitute a healthy love. Some people probably dont even know what that really looks like.
And the love' that one may give - certainly may not equate to what their partner defines as love, which means the partner wont be getting what they need / what they want / what is deserved.
and that in my opinion is when its time to go.
I think there are a lot of reasons WHY people drink. Sometimes yes, I think people drink to numb pain. My husbands use is clearly linked to things from his childhood, false beliefs of himself, low self esteem, in certain areas of his life, feeling unworthy. I wouldn't call it hatred of himself, but to a point where he didn't care what happened to himself. Its not the same for everyone IMO.. only your ex knows, or maybe he doesn't even know at this point. Therapy has been helping my husband figure all of this out.
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its a complex question
I am a human being and a sober alcoholic.
Humans are capable of love unless pathological ie narcissism, sociopathy.
An alcoholic is a human being.
Unfortunately we hurt our loved ones far more than we ever intend, and sometimes damage them beyond repair.
Its a hard to answer question you are asking.
and its hard to love a practising alcoholic unless they are sober and healing themselves.
hope you find some peace.
Van
Humans are capable of love unless pathological ie narcissism, sociopathy.
An alcoholic is a human being.
Unfortunately we hurt our loved ones far more than we ever intend, and sometimes damage them beyond repair.
Its a hard to answer question you are asking.
and its hard to love a practising alcoholic unless they are sober and healing themselves.
hope you find some peace.
Van
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Originally Posted by HardLessons
We are capable of hurting them however the pain they feel is short lived & to a much lesser extent than what a normal brain would feel. Hence, they move on quickly after a break up. They aren't feeling the raw emotions of it like we do.
Looking forward to when all of this is just a faint memory and a lesson learned.
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Originally Posted by velma929
"Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."
My marriage was not going well at the end of Late Husband's life. He was dismissive. he was rude. He had time to talk to anyone except me. I had recorded in a journal that I overheard him talking to a friend before he died, asking said friend to look after me.
I know this because I wrote it down, and because the friend mentioned it. Sadly, I don't *actually* remember it, which makes me sad.
My marriage was not going well at the end of Late Husband's life. He was dismissive. he was rude. He had time to talk to anyone except me. I had recorded in a journal that I overheard him talking to a friend before he died, asking said friend to look after me.
I know this because I wrote it down, and because the friend mentioned it. Sadly, I don't *actually* remember it, which makes me sad.
I'm grateful you at least have that memory in a journal. It takes a brave soul to journal through a difficult experience like that. And to find the gumption to go back and read it, later. Respect.
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Originally Posted by aliciagr
"the alcoholic" term is really a misnomer. Medically speaking each person is an individual who is suffering from some degree of alcohol use disorder. The alcoholic I guess you could say is at the far end of the spectrum and has the most symptoms.
And the love' that one may give - certainly may not equate to what their partner defines as love, which means the partner wont be getting what they need / what they want / what is deserved.
and that in my opinion is when its time to go.
I think there are a lot of reasons WHY people drink. Sometimes yes, I think people drink to numb pain. My husbands use is clearly linked to things from his childhood, false beliefs of himself, low self esteem, in certain areas of his life, feeling unworthy. I wouldn't call it hatred of himself, but to a point where he didn't care what happened to himself. Its not the same for everyone IMO.. only your ex knows, or maybe he doesn't even know at this point. Therapy has been helping my husband figure all of this out.
And the love' that one may give - certainly may not equate to what their partner defines as love, which means the partner wont be getting what they need / what they want / what is deserved.
and that in my opinion is when its time to go.
I think there are a lot of reasons WHY people drink. Sometimes yes, I think people drink to numb pain. My husbands use is clearly linked to things from his childhood, false beliefs of himself, low self esteem, in certain areas of his life, feeling unworthy. I wouldn't call it hatred of himself, but to a point where he didn't care what happened to himself. Its not the same for everyone IMO.. only your ex knows, or maybe he doesn't even know at this point. Therapy has been helping my husband figure all of this out.
I agree, once you are not receiving the love you believe you deserve, it is time to go. Especially if the relationship has become abusive.
I get the impression my ex has been drinking heavily since high school, maybe college. He just turned 40. This new motel he bought about a year ago, has taken its toll, as I expected. He is his own boss now, he drinks all day long. I hadn't seen him in about 9-months and he looked like he had aged a decade. Gained a ton of weight, grumpy, never smiling, like before. SO sad. And now he is abusive. He wasn't like that, before. Sad stuff, right there. Heartbreaking, really.
I get the impression he doesn't have a good relationship with his mom. He only ever talks to his Dad and he said once "my mom doesn't like anyone, not even her own kids. Don't even try to win her over."
He didn't talk much more about it.
Who knows why,
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Originally Posted by Vandermast
I am a human being and a sober alcoholic.
Humans are capable of love unless pathological ie narcissism, sociopathy.
An alcoholic is a human being.
Unfortunately we hurt our loved ones far more than we ever intend, and sometimes damage them beyond repair.
Its a hard to answer question you are asking.
and its hard to love a practising alcoholic unless they are sober and healing themselves.
hope you find some peace.
Van
Humans are capable of love unless pathological ie narcissism, sociopathy.
An alcoholic is a human being.
Unfortunately we hurt our loved ones far more than we ever intend, and sometimes damage them beyond repair.
Its a hard to answer question you are asking.
and its hard to love a practising alcoholic unless they are sober and healing themselves.
hope you find some peace.
Van
But he was abusive and really didn't have much remorse. That seemed like a good time to let him go. Sad. This is not who he always was.
And i just have to embrace that I'm worth so much more and hope I find peace. I already told him I don't care to be in touch. Now, I'm trying to understand my role, so I don't find myself in this position, again.
Thank you so much for your response.
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Someone earlier brought up concerning emotional growth stopping in our addicts at the point where addiction sets in. Therefore if addiction started at an early age, our addicts can be very immature at times. From my experience, I believe this to be very true.
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
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To me this question is always like asking... "Can a bear love you?" I remember Anvilhead once saying something about bears hugging. Can a bear hug? Yes, but would you want to hug one? Something like that. It's possible that a bear, a large and dangerous mammal, can hug you, and it is possible that it might really love you (or love to eat you), but you might get mauled in the process. Say that bear also has sociopathy or narcissism, then you're looking at a bear that probably doesn't or can't love you. This bear metaphor is probably not the best thing, Anvilhead said it better. I wish I could find the exact quote.
A lot of addict behavior might seem like sociopathy and narcissism, but sometimes it's just addiction. It's sad that addiction often co-occurs with other mental health issues. So whenever I post anything here, I always do it from my decade-long experience with an addict and so all my posts are subjective. I never post objective facts because I don't know you, your loved ones or qualifiers, or your shadows from soap. I believe that when my ex was sober (rarely), it was possible that he was able to do the "work" of love. I think that the further he went into his addiction, the less he was able to love anyone, not even himself.
The question "can an addict love", I think, is not the same as "can an addict feel". Everyone feels. But love is something that requires responsibility, care, compassion, communication, collaboration, and acceptance. Love with a partner is something that grows and changes together -- it grows bigger and better over time, love creates. This is too difficult for a lot of people in active addiction, who are just trying to get through the day. Love is about creation. Addiction is about destruction (and control), which (for me) is the opposite of creation.
The "control" aspect of addiction is where it sometimes all goes to heck. This is where it overlaps with abuse, because abuse is about control. Domestic violence is about control plus entitlement. Not saying that addicts are abusive (necessarily), it's just that some behaviors seem to occur over here and also over there. So the history of the person is important.
I think most addicts want to "do" love and want to "do" life. But while they are using, it's too difficult.
A lot of addict behavior might seem like sociopathy and narcissism, but sometimes it's just addiction. It's sad that addiction often co-occurs with other mental health issues. So whenever I post anything here, I always do it from my decade-long experience with an addict and so all my posts are subjective. I never post objective facts because I don't know you, your loved ones or qualifiers, or your shadows from soap. I believe that when my ex was sober (rarely), it was possible that he was able to do the "work" of love. I think that the further he went into his addiction, the less he was able to love anyone, not even himself.
The question "can an addict love", I think, is not the same as "can an addict feel". Everyone feels. But love is something that requires responsibility, care, compassion, communication, collaboration, and acceptance. Love with a partner is something that grows and changes together -- it grows bigger and better over time, love creates. This is too difficult for a lot of people in active addiction, who are just trying to get through the day. Love is about creation. Addiction is about destruction (and control), which (for me) is the opposite of creation.
The "control" aspect of addiction is where it sometimes all goes to heck. This is where it overlaps with abuse, because abuse is about control. Domestic violence is about control plus entitlement. Not saying that addicts are abusive (necessarily), it's just that some behaviors seem to occur over here and also over there. So the history of the person is important.
I think most addicts want to "do" love and want to "do" life. But while they are using, it's too difficult.
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Originally Posted by NYCDoglvr
After a few years of recovery I saw this is true in myself. I was completely immature and irresponsible when I put down alcohol; the recovery process was about growing up. I've seen alcoholics referred to "his majesty the child"; I see codependents question their loved ones' behavior when they have a few months. I don't say "give it a year, at least" (more like five years).
It's really helpful to hear your perspective. He is nowhere near in recovery. He still hasn't admitted there is a problem. When I broached the subject a year ago and I only knew of him drinking 5 or 6 beers a night and said "you might have a drinking problem", he about lost it. But he had also slowed down his drinking to the 5 or 6 that I KNEW about it. It wasn't sustainable and he just went back to his "old ways" that I was completely unaware of. 10-20 beers a day or more.
At this point, I really think he will need medical help to quit.
He would say inflammatory things and try to upset me, "I text my friend and tell her 'good morning beautiful". You have to be okay with that." This is someone he found "annoying" a year ago.. What decent guy would say that to the girl he's dating and then look for a reaction? This after we had a huge discussion about being a team and how to have a successful relationship.
I loved him and to him, I was just his favorite thing to destroy. He favored everyone else and treated them like gold. All of his friends even joke about how horribly he treats his girlfriends...worse than his actual friends, by far. I don't know what to make of it.
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
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Originally Posted by PhoenixRising211
I loved him and to him, I was just his favorite thing to destroy. He favored everyone else and treated them like gold. All of his friends even joke about how horribly he treats his girlfriends...worse than his actual friends, by far. I don't know what to make of it.
The other thing I want to add is that codependence is a type of addictive behavior. So can codependents love? Well, trying to control the behavior of another person is not love, it's just control.
Everyone feels.
When someone is doing something destructive in a relationship (being an addict, being codependent, being abusive... etc...), it threatens the relationship. The energy in that relationship gets taken out of the work of love and put into the work of trying to keep the relationship from imploding.
Also... I have to say this: love is not enough, love is never enough. If love were enough, everyone would be sober and no one would be here saying, "I love them, but they're drunk/high".
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He would say inflammatory things and try to upset me, "I text my friend and tell her 'good morning beautiful". You have to be okay with that." This is someone he found "annoying" a year ago.. What decent guy would say that to the girl he's dating and then look for a reaction? This after we had a huge discussion about being a team and how to have a successful relationship.
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Originally Posted by OpheliaKatz
Hurt people hurt people... :-(
The other thing I want to add is that codependence is a type of addictive behavior. So can codependents love? Well, trying to control the behavior of another person is not love, it's just control.
Everyone feels.
When someone is doing something destructive in a relationship (being an addict, being codependent, being abusive... etc...), it threatens the relationship. The energy in that relationship gets taken out of the work of love and put into the work of trying to keep the relationship from imploding.
Also... I have to say this: love is not enough, love is never enough. If love were enough, everyone would be sober and no one would be here saying, "I love them, but they're drunk/high".
The other thing I want to add is that codependence is a type of addictive behavior. So can codependents love? Well, trying to control the behavior of another person is not love, it's just control.
Everyone feels.
When someone is doing something destructive in a relationship (being an addict, being codependent, being abusive... etc...), it threatens the relationship. The energy in that relationship gets taken out of the work of love and put into the work of trying to keep the relationship from imploding.
Also... I have to say this: love is not enough, love is never enough. If love were enough, everyone would be sober and no one would be here saying, "I love them, but they're drunk/high".
I'm grateful I'm at least on a journey to get well and that I have some sort of introspection about it all. Kind of feeling like "single for life" sounds good. This was a doozy.
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