SparkleKitty

We don't have to accept anything we don't want to. But if we insist on believing someone is capable of meeting an expectation despite repeated demonstration that they are not, then we become complicit in perpetuating our own suffering.

I'm sorry you don't like the phrase, but that doesn't undermine the truth behind the idea.

dandylion

There can be a difference between being co-dependent and being in an abusive relationship.
Sometimes a person can be/feel "trapped" in an abusive relationship and have been so worn down or isolated or face so many challenges that they feel they can't get out or away.....
(This is said by the professionals who have studied this--not just me saying so).... And, it is advised that those who are in abusive situations receive a different treatment than the treatment for co-dependence. This is because, co-dependence approaches can recommend things that may make the abuse even worse.
In other words...I take that to mean that when a person is in an abusive situation---treat the abuse, first...

hearthealth

I think accepting a low expectation in more of a co dependent thought process than the resentment I feel. I think that the resentment I feel can be the catalyst for change.

hopeful4

I agree, as long as you actually use it as the catalyst to change and not stay stuck my friend.

Huge hugs.

Ladysadie

Hearthealth, re-read your statement regarding your parents:

"Hmm. I have to think about this one.

It just dawned on me. This dates back to FOO. The relationship between my parents. Father would set her up to fail and withdraw and then mother would withdraw further and nothing really got settled or changed. They both gave all they had and in the end it didn't work."

Doesn't sound like your parents "gave all they had"... what it sounds like is that your parents both withdrew. If that is your tactic to do towards your husband then no wonder you are not getting the responses you want.

Your husband is no longer drinking but you are still unhappy. Both you and your husband sound like you are both at an impasse. For things to get better, someone has to grow up and quit expecting the other to read their mind. You sound like you have a grasp on being Coda. Mindreading is not a healthy expectation.

How about the approach of positive reinforcement, if he leans in to kiss you, smile and kiss him back. Build on the premise that you one had that love spark. Initiate some of the things you want in return such as rubbing his shoulders when you are on the couch watching the news after you've settled in for the evening. What does it hurt to reach out and give a smile or compliment. At the very least you are being the better person here. I would not give up on this relationship quite yet. Don't become your mother or father, from what you say about them, that is your expected result for your life.

dandylion

Here is a link to an article that applies to the last post that I made...(about abuse victims vs. co-dependency)....

I hope that it will help, HeartHealth....

https://speakoutloud.net/intimate-pa...rs-codependent

SparkleKitty

I agree. I think it can be the catalyst for you to change.

But if you are hoping it will be the catalyst for him to change, you will likely end up waiting for that for a long, long time.

Also, when I talk about "accepting" him for who he is, you know I'm not suggesting you just "take what you can get," right? I mean, accept him for who he is, and then decide whether or not that is something you can live with.

hearthealth

Dandylion that article was helpful. I see myself in that article.

hearthealth

I use to do things like this early on in our marriage, when he was drinking and would get shut down. I haven't tried so much since he stopped drinking. I wait until he approaches me so I don't get rejected. The hurt of rejection is debilitating depressing. I gave him an article about what a divorced man regrets most. He does none of those. His response is showing me an article about women. I do those things. I guess perfection will never be attained (as it never will be).

trailmix

I agree HH. It does shift the blame and it shouldn't really. Lots of talk around here about expectations. It is true that if you have none you aren't going to be disappointed when your non-expectation doesn't work out as expected!

It's not realistic.

I do think we need to have those expectations securely set in reality.

I think you and sparklekitty really hit on something today.

Your Husband is not the person you want him to be. He might never be and I have to ask why you think he will be?

Possibly when you first started out it was all sunshine and roses? How many years in to alcoholism is he? How many years in to your relationship are you, how many years have you been living with the dysfunction?

That's a lot of work to change. He most certainly isn't going to magically become who you want him to be and your expectations are probably going to have to shift.

If you are willing to put in the time to work on it AND he is too, then it's a worthwhile endeavor, I suppose?

AnvilheadII

I never liked that phrase. It puts the blame on me. I'm to accept a low bar when I'm expecting a higher bar, 'normal' interaction.

except you aren't dealing with normal. you still hold to a vision in your mind of what a marriage/relationship should LOOK like, and yet you and AH do not have that. he has shown you over and over and over again exactly what he has to offer.....and yet you keep expecting MORE.

you have been subsurvient and that didn't work. you have tried to have more of a voice/opinion, and that isn't working. you wait for him to make a move, and he does not. as long as you keep circling around HIM, waiting for him to suddenly transform before you eyes into the someone who will make your life all better, THIS is what you get. as long as you keep going to the hardware store for bread, you will come away disappointed and empty handed.

Bernadette

Was happily divorced 20 years ago. Yes it was a struggle, and a huge change, and my finances were in the toilet, all of that sucked BIG TIME. But none of it was as bad as being in that lousy, painful marriage. The struggle for change that I waged lifted me out of depression because I was finally actively owning my own life. And I was no push over to begin with, but man, when I finally got the courage to divorce I had really let myself get pretty low and had lowered my standards, and was setting a lousy example of a loving relationship for my 2 boys. UGH. 100%worth it for everyone's mental health!

Was all worth it. One foot in front of the other hearthealth. Everyone says life is too short - for me it was the thought that, no, life is LONG, it's the longest thing I'm going to do, and the thought of being THAT miserable for THAT long was a great motivator for me.

Did some excellent therapy during separation and post-divorce that was very healing and empowering (I found a place that had a sliding scale, it was very cheap in cost but so precious).

Happiness and peace are right there when I make the effort to grab the reigns of my own life.
Peace,
B.

TropicalWinter

Yes. Exactly this. That's why I posted what I did. Unrealistic expectations lead to resentments.

hearthealth

I've been waging the wrong battle.

Ladysadie

Sorry Hearthealth, I haven't read past threads to know you've tried everything. If you're at a stalemate I guess that is up to you to decide if staying is worth it or not (and not knowing the ages of your children, or other factors to consider). But I would be getting myself financially independent if that is holding you back. Be able to support yourself if you aren't already able. Do not take on more debt while married if you have a thought of moving on. Just suggestions. Divorce is costly and can get contentious. Just be wise, be kind, be careful. If you have a sliver of hope to give it a go, then give it all you've got. You deserve the best life has to offer.

Clover71

I've been thinking about this thread all day and couldn't reply because I was at work. Now I'm catching up with the responses. I have some thoughts but want to pull them together before replying.

I did want to jump in here though as I agree somewhat. This was also discussed on another thread. Some expectations IMO are actually boundaries and needs.

OpheliaKatz

Okay, say that we put the blame on no one. You have a right to expect things in a relationship... I certainly would expect things myself! He also has a right to treat his body the way he wants to treat it... even if it impacts others negatively. He has a right to act the way he acts, even if it impacts negatively on the children and even if the children have a right to be safe from dry drunk behavior. I'm not saying that what he is doing is good, but he also doesn't think it's bad and you can't change that. You are both doing what you feel is right for you, individually.

So... what can you do in this situation, where you feel that your needs in the relationship are not being met? What can you do, personally, individually, to change the situation for yourself while still respecting the other person's choices?

I'm not trying to condone his behavior or motivations. I'm just asking you what you feel your options are...?

There are many approaches to living with addiction for friends and family of addicts. There's Naranon, Alanon, there's Christian recovery... most of them recommend detachment, education about addiction, and acceptance. There are also many people who say, just leave this person, wash them out of your brain, problem solved. None of these answers are easier or more right than the others. None of them will make you feel happier in the short term, but all of them will decrease your level of stress in the long term.

Edit: If you feel you are in an abusive situation, the priority would be trying to leave safely, not trying to address codependence.

hearthealth

Hmm. Tonight his complaint was about the butter dish. The butter got on the sides of the lid. I was doing the dishes so I just scraped off the remaining butter from the dish and washed both. He made a comment about wasting butter. I stated we have a clean dish and that's the priority. He hasn't spoke to me all evening since. I guess we are to put the lid on more careful.

Clover71

I don't have my thoughts together like I would have liked, but I just read your last reply HH

Your husband sounds somewhat like mine.

I also don't want to be divorced. I actually like married life. We had dreams and plans. We were a team. I have now somewhat actually detached, and I realize now what I want. I didn't realize what I wanted and what I felt I was missing. That came through growth. I can't imagine how now having an RAH vs an AH can turn all that topsy turvy. What should you want and expect? What should you sacrifice? Having family pressure doesn't help. I don't have answers, but for me it was helpful to make a list of what I need and want and to think about what I could get those things out of my current relationship. I personally don't think my AH can fulfill what I want sober or dry. I've grown and my wants and needs have changed. Maybe you need time apart so that you can explore life on your own.

dandylion

My first husband would put powder on the trim over the doors...so that he could tell if I had done a thorough job of dusting/cleaning on my days off from the hospital...and while I was taking care of the three small children....
As I previously described, in my other post to you....At the time of announcing that I was filing for divorce....I told him..."A housekeeper will be much cheaper and more efficient than a wife"......
By the way--he wasn't even an alcoholic.....