Yes! I think it's a lot easier to focus on the next baby step because you can get very overwhelmed looking at how far you are from where you want to be in the Big Picture sense.

I listen to a lot of Abraham Hicks online & his way of putting it is, "you can't get there from here"... meaning that when you are SO far from where you want to be emotionally, it's too hard to leap far enough, fast enough. You can't go from misery to joy. You can go from misery to less miserable to neutral to almost happy to happy to joyous though. ;)

When I started my recovery I was BROKE - I had exhausted my savings & had mounting debt. I searched out activities for DD & I based around zero dollars for entertainment & fun. One of the cheapest things we could do was go with my BFF & her DD to the beach in the evenings & let the kids play until sunset, then splurge on getting them happy meals on the way home.

And I started planning for my life to change, $5 at a time.

Now this will be the 4th year in a row that same friend & I are able to afford splitting a great room in a boutique hotel at that same beach for a long weekend. Every year we add more to the trip - more people, activities, days away, whatever.

Pick a place to start - ANY PLACE - and just. keep. going.

I really hope this doesn't trigger anyone (trigger warning here).

This is an interesting topic.

I was talking to my mother recently. She was telling me that divorce was rare in her social group and generation. Years ago, she was visiting a friend in Japan. It was the 1960s. She was younger then, but newly married. She stayed with her friend in an apartment for a week, and during that time there were two "jumpers" -- two housewives jumped out of their apartments to their deaths. Her friend said, usually there's a jumper every few months. New couples keep moving in, then the windowers move out after a while. This apartment was very near a major financial district. My mother said, "Are the men violent?" Her friend said, "No, they just don't talk to their wives. They come home, eat dinner, drink beer, and sleep. And the neighbors here are not friendly either, so the women talk to no one."

I didn't get married to get divorced. I know it's an option and I'm glad I have that option. I feel sad that I might have to do it. I feel sad that the person I married didn't care about his marriage enough to save himself in order to save it. However, it's better than being miserable together forever and ever. Miserable forever. Terrible.

My paternal grandparents were miserable together for 50 years. Alcohlics the both of them.

My parents were married 50 years when my dad died from health problems directly related to his drinking. My mother was painfully codependent ( still is to my brother and anyone else that will let her worry over them)

The night after my dad died my mum and I were writing out his obituary. She burst in to tears and asked," Would it be a lie if I put "loving" wife"?.... I told her, " Of course not! You loved him!"... and she replied.."I just wish I knew if he loved me back".... It was one of the most heartbreaking moments of my life.

So yeah.. miserable forever is a terribly sad reality for too many people.

I was debating the same thing over my mother. Could I include loving wife after a divorced person's death?

I think it is o.k. to just say ex-wife...or "wife from a previous marriage"....I don't think there is any need to lie, unnecessarily.......

***I think a parent child situation is different than a spouse situation, in this respect....

So how are the children faring?

My sister is living this right now in a different way - she's in her early 40's, has 2 children - one almost off to college, the other just finishing KDG.

She has the most non-passionate, shallow relationship with her live-in boyfriend & it is baffling. Following the ups & downs of her previously abusive & combative relationships, she decided she wanted something different so she settled for a partner she had previously told us would never appeal to her for a variety of reasons that she listed in great detail. She was very assured about what she wanted & what made her happy.... or so she said.

Now she appears to have it all together on the surface - their bills are paid, they are both driving new vehicles & he puts money in her kids' savings accounts every month. Suddenly she cares about labels & her fake nails & everything material.

She's also gained over 100 pounds in a year or so & brings it up so often that I've asked her to stop self-deprecating in my presence, it's too hard to listen to.

She's hyper focused on my mom's situation & has really ramped up her codie actions/habits so anyone that doesn't see everything her way better stand back for the Rays of Judgment that she will be shining on you with laser like focus. Because of that she's lost or abandoned every single friendship she had prior to dating him - their lives revolve around his family, his friends, his job, his ideas. (she doesn't see it that way) After spending one holiday with his FOO it was very obvious that they are an incredibly dysfunctional, all-codie family.

I've had to walk away from the boyfriend during my nephew's soccer games because he uses Shaming as a Parenting Weapon so many times that I refuse to attend the games any longer - it's too hard to witness. I've done too much Brene work around shame to sit there & just pretend it's ok.

My sister is truly miserable inside. She tells my BFF that "it works"..... "she guesses". She admits to her that there is no passion, no sex, no connection but there's no abuse so...... it's "good enough", right? But- she has no shortage of opinions about everything *I'm* doing wrong in my marriage, nor does she find it inappropriate to gossip with MY BFF of 18 yrs about these opinions. (my poor friend, how uncomfortable)

Oh, and she's severely depressed, doesn't know what to do about it & doesn't need anyone's help, thank-you-very-much.

She's the most unhappy person I know, never mind one of the most toxic. After 2 days with her family during the hurricane last year, my DD13 asked if the 2 of us could just stay on our own without them even though it meant giving up a lot of creature comforts - they had a generator at their house running fans, the fridge, etc & they lived a lot more central. Our house was flooded to the steps, had no power/water, no A/C, was super buggy & is isolated in the country where we couldn't count on cell phone towers, etc. We had also expected it to be severely damaged so we had literally packed every single room & moved every piece of furniture. It wasn't livable but the physical discomfort was far, far less than the emotional type we were dealing with while staying with their family. DD explained, "I just CAN'T listen to them talk to one another like that any more!!"

Her follow up was "at what point is it ok for you to say something mom??".... I asked what she meant, she explained that she knew the way the boyfriend pass-aggress digs at my niece is not ok & wanted to know where the line was that once crossed, would allow me to step into the situation. She was shocked to hear that I have NO SAY in how they run their household outside of expressing my opinion about this stuff when it is happening in front of me. She said that hurt to hear - she loves my niece like a sister & knows she already suffers from low self esteem & the way he interacts with her is eroding it further. But none of it is overt, none of it registers as "abusive" so it's all good to my sister.

It's anything but good.

My H has good conversation and involvement with them. H and daughter cuddle on the couch late at night and have some tender conversations. He just can't do it with me.

Son has still been mean to sister. He's a little too blunt and honest which hurts her feelings. He has no verbal filters. Daughter has a hard time making friends and it depresses her.

I give H chances to prove to me he cares and loves me and he falls way short, minimally available. I got my wake up call and have to deal with my emotions. I see him spending time with others. I tell him he promised DS to play chess. H has to honor that promise but he won't do it for me. He can't look internally. I realize recovery is a slow process one step forward two steps back but I'm tired of being his conscience. If I point something out to him then I'm the bad person for not accepting him as he is. I just get nothing. The same day we both work 8 hours. I tend to supper as he takes an hour nap. I complain about him not helping with dishes while he reads a free pamphlet that I ordered that I haven't read. I spend time separate from him with DD and he spends time separate from me with DS. He's living his life and doing what he wants. I'm the one not happy. Yesterday I questioned how easy my life might be without the responsibility of his life and issues. I'm the one with the problem like when he was drinking but he's not. He's better but not really.

I can remember then I told my first husband that I was filing for divorce, and that I would be asking him to sign separation papers....he said the me "This is ridiculous! I am perfectly happy with this marriage....the problem is You...you are never satisfied with anything!"....
At that point, it was beyond discussion, for me....but, seeing how much his view of marriage, compared to mine, were worlds apart, was enough to take my breath away....

My husband has said pretty much the same thing. For a long time I thought it was me. If only I was better, more accepting of the way it is.

So can you see yourself staying on for forty more years of this?
What about when the kids are gone?

Sounds very sad and depressing.
Why would anyone want to "accept" that?

Maybe your sadness and depression are your soul's signs
that you need to get out of this situation before you make yourself physically sick to do so?

Living under this kind of stress has physical effects.
Please at least talk to the DV people and find out some options.

This. Wow, this was my life for a long time. Thing is, drunk, sober, it did not matter. He is checked out of life. It's still that way now, just with his new wife.

So many people thought I would be burdened around the house, etc when I divorced. LOL....it is so much less work and stress for him not to be there! I am SO MUCH happier, and so are my kids. Even with the drama he still brings to their lives, now it's only 5% of the time versus him being there causing drama all the time.

When a person quits drinking it does not make them into some wonderful person. True fact.

HH, maybe you are looking for love in the wrong place. You know who he is, and he might be doing just about all he's capable of. He's not drinking (I presume) and he's helping more, which are improvements from a very low base.

When you say you give him chances to prove he loves and cares for you, you're setting him up to fail. He might think he's proving it in other ways, while you have these mental tests he doesn't know about.

Maybe he's gone as far as he can. You need more, but blaming him might not be fair when you two are not compatible.

I want him to succeed. I want him to remember wife is happy of I do A so I will do A to make wife happy. I want son daughter to be happy so I will do x to make them happy. Today he surprised me to give me a kiss. I jumped. He said that's a sight.

HH, wanting someone to succeed and setting them up to fail are not mutually exclusive.

Hmm. I have to think about this one.


It just dawned on me. This dates back to FOO. The relationship between my parents. Father would set her up to fail and withdraw and then mother would withdraw further and nothing really got settled or changed. They both gave all they had and in the end it didn't work.

This is an expectation. Expectations lead to resentments when they are not met. It's also codependent behavior.

I truly believe people some humans are just not compatible in the long-term, without there needing to be a "failure" on either part to get along. People want and need different things from relationships. Not being able to provide a thing your partner needs or wants is not necessarily a shortcoming, but potentially a sign of incompatibility.

I never liked that phrase. It puts the blame on me. I'm to accept a low bar when I'm expecting a higher bar, 'normal' interaction.