mamabear26

I'm heartbroken today. Yesterday I had a 3-way meeting with my lawyer, myself and my STBAXH. We were discussing a settlement regarding our divorce. Currently the visitation schedule for our two boys (10 and 6) he see's them on the 1st, 3rd and 5th weekend of every month from 9am-2pm. STBAXH wants them from 9am-7pm. I responded with 9am-3pm. He came back with 9am-5pm. My lawyer suggested that I take that deal since he doesn't have a lawyer and if he does get one he will fight for overnights. Im so terrified because lately my STBAXH has been more aggressive. Last week he has shown up to my house twice without calling or texting me before hand angry about money. He admits that he still drinks the same and has no plans on changing that. I told my lawyer in front of him that he is alcoholic and drinks heavily everyday, that's why I don't think he should have more time with the kids. My STBAXH didn't deny it or say anything in response. We went into other details such as the house. He said he would let me keep it as long as he didn't have to pay my attorney's fees. He also complained about paying me alimony but my lawyer said by law he will have to pay until half of the duration of our marriage which 5 years would be half since we were married 10 years. Its all about money for him. He doesn't care anything about my boys. He is not consistently involved in their lives. Its only to his convenience that when he chooses to be a parent. I've worked so hard for the past 11 years to ensure that my kids are safe and are not affected by his alcoholism and he just gets to walk in and demand for more time with them without truly making any changes as a father and excepts things to go his way. I broke down in tears after my EX walked out of the conference room. After everything he has put me through been a drunk for years, lied, cheated on me twice and abandoned his family it looks like he will be getting what he wants. I told my lawyer that I will agree to the 9am-5pm only if I can add stipulation such as no alcohol intake 12 hours before and during visitation. My question today is there any other stipulations that I can add that anyone has used in the past regarding drinking? Can anybody share with me their child visitation schedule with an alcoholic? And how did it workout?

hopeful4

I hate to say it, but I agree with your attorney, unless he can be bought.

Are you in a position to wheel and deal with him financially so he can get less time? I did that to an extent. My XAH has every other weekend and one night during the week. He has not excercised his night during the week for two years, and does not exercise his right to most holidays, etc that he could. He does that b/c I don't make him pay all he should pay. It's hard financially, but well worth it.

I have stipulations there can be no drinking around children, no alcohol on the premises, no taking them anywhere alcohol is served, not drugs that are not prescribed or in excess of what is prescribed. I have the right to have him tested for drugs and alcohol (he has the right to have me tested as well lol), and if he were to fail he would have to pay for it. No calling children under the influence. Also try to get in if children request to go back home they may, and that if he is under the influence you have the right to keep them away and/or go get them.

What I left out is what to do about it, in other words, what are the consequences if any of these things happen, which they have. Get that in there, because even with all of this, he has drank, NUMEROUS times, around children.

I would also suggest to add in SoberLink during that time. I would try that before financially wheeling and dealing, and I would offer to pay for it.

It's not been fun, but my kids are getting older and that makes it easier.

Big hugs!

dandylion

mamabear.......I can add one comment on the practical side.....
I don't know your husband's personality, but, I can share about my own children's father and observing many ex-husbands, after divorce....
My own ex-husband wasn't an alcoholic....But..he was very narcissistic and tight as Nick's head band when it cam to money. Very self-centered and loved to be uncooperative and give me a hard time....
I filed for the divorce and he made a lot of noise about "going for full custody", etc. I think that was because he thought that he could get out of paying child support.
Knowing that he was motivated more about money....I agreed let him see the kids as often as he would like....and, I went light on the child support...agreeing that he only had to pay the minimum. We were young and there wasn't much equity in our house, at that time...so I agreed to let him have the house if he wo uld never speak of custody, ever again. (I was desperate to get away from the relationship with him).
He agreed to that arrangement, without further arguments or threats.

Now I realize that my situation was not identical to yours..as there was no safety concern.
However...the thing I wanted to point out to you is this----lots of men make a lot of noise about wanting sooo much time with the kids, at the time of the actual divorce discussions...but, when it comes down to being a single parent with the kids....they soon drop off in their interest....They find out that the kids can interfere with their "alone time"....that kids require a lot attention and effort.....And...with the alcoholics...it seriously cuts down on their drinking time...and, even having them on the weekends costs money......
My husband dropped off from having the kids a couple of weekends a month (even though he could have had them every weekend, if he had wanted)....to less and less time....eventually, down to 3 or 4 times a year....and, less than that, as they grew into teen years....

If your husband, like mine, wasn't that interested in the kids, and is motivated by money, and, likes to drink every day....he may follow the same pattern of not exercising his rights to visitation in a gradually diminishing pattern.......

***by the way...as much as you say that he drinks...he may find that 20hrs. is a looong time to go without a drink, and , not go into withdrawl symptoms.....
(although, some figure out that they can take some anxiolytic drug and keep the discomfort of withdrawl at bay......

mamabear26

Hi Hopeful4,

No right now I'm not in a position to wheel and deal him. I currently work part-time and I'm going to school to work towards being a teacher. As far as the financial stuff he is asking for I don't care if he doesn't want to pay for my attorneys fees and eventually when I do become a teacher I will be making more than he does so I wont need spousal support. My focus is on my kids and their well being. He lives in a house with 4 others adults. One of them being his brother whom is also an alcoholic and gang member. I have many concerns when they visit with their dad. My older son tells me he has taken them with him to buy beer. He says he doesn't see him drinking out of the can but from a big cup (which I am guessing he puts the beer in to disguise it).

Thank you for the suggestion on the stipulation! Currently I don't have any stipulation for visitation. I just want to protect my boys as much as I can since I am not going to be with them for those hours. My lawyer did mention that if he violates these stipulations then we can go back to court and ask for supervised visitation.

Thank you again for the advice and support. I truly appreciate it!

mamabear26

Hi Dandylion,

I do agree with you Dandylion. I can see what you mean as far as making a big fuss during the divorce proceedings. He has ever hardly taken any interest in our children. This past Thanksgiving he was suppose to have them from 11am-2pm. He said he wasn't going to come and get them. I told him "I know you are drinking that is fine, don't." He didn't put up a fuss about it. Until the next day, he called asking from them to go over which I told him that it wasn't his day. He was very upset. One day he is one person, the next day he is another.

It's been about 3 years since I have seen him go at least a day without drinking. So I also agree with you that he may go into withdrawals during that time. At the end of the day, I just want the best for my boys. I do understand they need their father but they need him to be sober and clear headed. I'm going to fight like a hellcat for my kids to have the best life as possible.

Thank you for the advice!

Sasha1972

At the risk of sounding like I'm endorsing a product, SoberLink may be helpful here.

I've found the technology itself to work very well - the difficulty for me has been with ex not using it consistently (or coming up with excuses and reasons for not using it correctly). Our schedule says he has to provide a clean test 30 minutes before the scheduled beginning of a visit, every two hours after the first test, and 30 minutes after the end of the visit. We have a court order that says if he fails SoberLink testing or misses a test, he only gets supervised visits for a period of time until he's built up a record of solid compliance.

SoberLink also isn't cheap, but I think it's reasonable to require your husband to carry the costs.

mamabear26

Thank you Sasha 1972 for the recommendation. Yes, I have looked into SoberLink. I did purpose it in my original petition for divorce. I also asked that he should pay for it. He made a big fuss about it. I don't have the income right now to pay for SoberLink so that is why I asked him to pay for it but he is being ridiculous when it pertains to him spending any portion of his money. I am going to bring it up to my lawyer again and see what his recommends. Thank you so much for the advice : )

Sasha1972

You could also make SoberLink part of a choice for him: without SoberLink - short visits supervised by someone agreeable to both of you (which could get old pretty quickly). With SoberLink - longer unsupervised (but SL-monitored) visits. He can decide if SoberLink is worth it to him.

CentralOhioDad

May I ask how much it costs?

Sasha1972

It's $300-$400 for the SoberLink device itself, and then between $99 and $199 per month, depending on which plan you choose. I went for the mid-range (premium) plan because ex doesn't have a regular visitation schedule set up with Kid, so I needed a plan that wasn't keyed to testing at pre-set times. Not cheap, but it does seem to be almost impossible to game the system so it provides peace of mind.

CentralOhioDad

That's not cheap. My opinion is, related to my situation, is that she can pay for it if she wants to see DS. She obviously can't be trusted to do it on her own, so if she wants visitation, she pays for the monitoring.

Appreciate the info.

Gm0824

It is not cheap. I requested soberlink to the court for my situation. Cost was a huge deterrent for the judge for my "peace of mind". The judge said if he had granted soberlink exah would not see the children and the courts prerogative is parent-child relationship. I had two options, I could pay for it (out of the child support we do not receive) or continue with supervised visitation until ex passed UA's (which I also was ordered to pay for). I found the court system is hard on the sober parent even if there is plenty of evidence of irresponsible drinking around the children and the ex is admitting to alcohol/pill abuse. I would be advocating for supervised visitation with a professional supervisor .. the cost was about the same as soberlink but they address a lot of issues during visitation (IME) than just if they are sober or not. My thought process if the spouse is not in recovery, give them as much rope and as many hoops as you can to protect the children.

4MyBoys

So over the last six years I have had just about every situation under the sun in place for the boys visits with my AXH.

You have many issues going on here. First, it has been my experience, that the courts see money and visitation as too very separate issues. You can discuss it with your attorney together but judges don't like it. They are handled very separately. And for me alimony was just arbitrarily stopped at one point, way before the, half the years you were married point. So not sure that is a given. Just want to make sure you know. Also, I'm also in California and there are pretty set guidelines of what he is supposed to pay you for the time you have the kids. You can ask the court to have your local Child Support Services get the money for you and that way you will always be paid and you don't have to be the one to collect it from him. Or rely on him getting it to you.

Next, Is the court is aware yet that there is a drinking issue? The courts don't take kindly to kids being in unsafe situations. You need to document every case where there was issues with your X doing something drinking related that negatively affects the kids. Missed visits to them coming home concerned or any issue that may arise. If you had issues while married, why is your attorney not coming out of the gate with that?

Also, when I reread your post, have you filed the initial paper work with the court? If so, you can call the police if he just shows up at your house unannounced and angry, especially if his has been drinking. Don't ever be afraid to call the police if you really are afraid.

I've done both Soberlink and supervised visits. There is good and bad with each. We split the costs of Soberlink. It was court ordered. We used a local counseling service associated with the court for supervised rather than having friends or family monitor. Courts covered those costs.

Regarding you stipulations for no drinking before. I would go for 24 hours. That is what I have always had. I have also had as a stipulation that no one who is at the same location as my X can be drinking while he has the children either.

Only one day a weekend with no over night three times a month is quite good. My experience has been the courts really push to have both parents having time with the kids, even with drinking. You can always go back and have it altered if ANYTHING bad happens.

Good luck, I am sorry you are in this position. Believe me MamaBear, you never know how strong you are until being strong is your only choice. And keep fighting like a Mama Bear for your kids to be safe.

4MyBoys

peaceofpi

Regarding your statement that: "My lawyer did mention that if he violates these stipulations then we can go back to court and ask for supervised visitation."

Be careful with stipulations without clear consequences. I had a "no consuming alcohol" stipulation in our order and, after many incidents, had to go back to court later for a change to get Soberlink and supervised visitation if he failed or didn't test on Soberlink. Establishing proof in court was difficult, even with witnesses who saw him drunk at school pick-up and who saw him leave a small child strapped inside a car in the summer while he visited a liquor store in violation of state law. (CPS was no help, by the way.) It took a year, five hearings, multiple Soberlink failures, and tens of thousands in attorneys fees to get this boundary of protection.

Sasha1972

I have wording in my order which says that in the event of one failed or missed SoberLink test or an "alcohol-related incident", ex goes back to supervised visits only. The "alcohol-related incident" is deliberately broad, to cover situations which arise when Kid is not with ex but which have a bearing on ex's fitness to parent without supervision. The rule of thumb is that if first responders are involved, it's an "alcohol-related incident" until proven otherwise (yes, my ex is a frequent flyer with cops and ERs).

This came up in court recently - whether an incident in which ex was taken to the emergency room by the police following hallucinations with suicidal content. My position was that given ex's history of substance abuse, in the absence of any information that would provide a non-alcohol-related explanation, any incident should be considered alcohol-related until proven otherwise. In other words, I don't have to prove he was drinking; he needs to prove he wasn't drinking. The judge agreed with my position and set ex back to supervised visits only for the next month.

The moral of the story is: choose the wording of your order very carefully and be sure you understand what the wording will mean in practice.

Gm0824

I wanted to suggest the use of a third party website for facilitating visitation, medical, or any other kid related info that would also be admissible in court. The website I am familiar with is ourfamilywizard - maybe talk with your attorney if you could use something like this for any of your communication regarding the children? Instead of having him text/call you all the time. The texts/calls became incessant for me and hindered my quality of life. This was a way for me to take the stand that I was only willing to communicate about the children.

hopeful4

I will just put out there to listen to what people are saying here. Family Court has a HUGE amount of control over what happens. You cannot just demand something because it's right and assume a judge will have the good God given sense to go by that. It often does not happen that way.

Document, document, document (and talk w/an attorney to make sure documentation is admissible), and prepare, prepare, prepare.

As always, prepare for the worst, hope and pray for the best. In my state, you can automatically strike your judge one time before you even start. Go to court, observe, be familiar with the judges in your area, and make sure your attorney is even more familiar than you.

Spahappy

Mamabear, i don’t want to sound like I’m doing a product endorsement here either, but something to consider for additional peace of mind would be Gizmo watches (or something similar) for your kids. It’s only $5 per month added to your cell phone plan. It allows you to program 4-10 phone numbers into the watch that can call in/out and text (depending on the model you get). It has GPS so you can track their location. And if you call it will automatically answer after 10 rings or something like that and you can hear what is going on.

This certainly doesn’t replace Soberlink or supervised visitation. But depending on what happens at least you can track where the kids are and they can reach you if needed.

My AH is taking DS7 on a trip this weekend and I’ve been super nervous (even though he committed to me that he won’t drink). Getting the watch for DS has made me feel better about it (although I’m still nervous of course). We had a talk that he should call me if he ever feels uncomfortable, can’t wake daddy up, etc. or just wants to say hi. He just called me from it at the airport a few mins ago.

Anyway just a suggestion. Good luck

Mango212

This thread and the shared experiences are a part of why I was able to fully enjoy the extended time of No Contact with my husband when he relapsed this past year. To have space for myself and DS to heal and enjoy life in a new way was a magnificent gift. I was ready, one day at a time, to do whatever it took for DS and I to experience something new and different.

We - as a family, together and separated - have been through sobriety, recovery, dry drunk and relapses, along with a year of Soberlink protection.

Looking at this, I realize we've been through a tremendous amount of stress. Having time to put down the stress is important.

The CPS case against me is easier to get through as I keep this in mind. I don't know what's going to happen. I do know DS12 is stronger now and has court protection/precedence from his father's illness. I am extremely thankful for this. His father is in recovery again, in a different frame of wanting to be well than ever before. He is a different person in recovery. Kind, loving, gentle and genuine. Some of that shows in his active illness with interactions with some people. It's a baffling, coniving disease. It's amazing to see the good reemerging. It's good to have my own space and continued recovery.

Going NC with FOO has been monumental in my healing. Through all of this, I'm learning what is important in this one day for my healing, health and joy.

I've been praying and meditating throughout this and trust my Higher Power to guide me. No one path. Many ways to heal.

Many blessings to all here.

alwayscovering

Document, Document, Document. A HS friend of mine is a lawyer and he said the person with the most documentation wins in court.

I agree with Sasha, wording is extremely important. I really like the idea of making him prove he wasn't drinking/using.

A lot of family court judges will sign whatever the parties agree on. So if you can come up with an agreement outside of court and all parties sign it...usually the judge will sign it unless the agreement seems super crazy.

I would also say it would be totally worth it to waive alimony to get him to agree to soberlink and Our family Wizard.