Wife's new AA girlfriends - need to understand
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Join Date: Mar 2016
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Did you wife have an affair before?
If so, having experienced that myself. My husband cheating when he was in active addiction. It really messed with my mind, made me feel insecure in the marriage, and made me question things about myself also. So if there was infidelity, how did the two of you address it? My husband and I did family therapy, Christian counseling also. It takes effort by both parties, a little more transparency on some things because of the emotional damage/trust issues. There was work I had to do because some of my thinking was tainted by irrational thoughts afterward, but if he hadn't put in an effort also, then our marriage wouldn't have survived.
If so, having experienced that myself. My husband cheating when he was in active addiction. It really messed with my mind, made me feel insecure in the marriage, and made me question things about myself also. So if there was infidelity, how did the two of you address it? My husband and I did family therapy, Christian counseling also. It takes effort by both parties, a little more transparency on some things because of the emotional damage/trust issues. There was work I had to do because some of my thinking was tainted by irrational thoughts afterward, but if he hadn't put in an effort also, then our marriage wouldn't have survived.
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Join Date: Mar 2018
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Find an Alanon recovery group for yourself. This is a "family" disease and while you may feel like you "Shouldn't have to go to a meeting because she is the one with the problem". TRUST ME... You need to learn how to take care of yourself for what you may find will be the 1st time ever. Give it 6 meetings before you make a decision. It is my experience that by the 6th meeting (if not before) you will find you are right where you belong. If not, nothing lost!
Understand this, that as much as it feels like everything is about her drinking, it is NOT about your wife! It is about you, your life, and doing something different so you are not just continuing to do the same dance over an over again. I have learned that I can not control anyone's behavior but my own. We all have a role and if you want something different YOU have to do something different. One of my lines to live by today, (13 years in Alanon), NOTHING CHANGES IF NOTHING CHANGES!! Prayers~
Understand this, that as much as it feels like everything is about her drinking, it is NOT about your wife! It is about you, your life, and doing something different so you are not just continuing to do the same dance over an over again. I have learned that I can not control anyone's behavior but my own. We all have a role and if you want something different YOU have to do something different. One of my lines to live by today, (13 years in Alanon), NOTHING CHANGES IF NOTHING CHANGES!! Prayers~
Last edited by helcat2846; 03-18-2018 at 11:56 AM. Reason: reworded
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Originally Posted by dandylion 
donewithhurting.....I gave you a link to our extensive library of articles on the effects of alcoholism on the loved ones...so many, that you could read one every day....Most of them are not written anywhere else, al have been written in the tears and strength of those who have passed before you/us on this forum...That link is in the Feb 27th. post that I made to you....
There is a lot that I think will benefit you....
Now, I know that you have stated, several times that you have read everything that has been written on the subject....lol...so, I hope that your hair will not go on fire at my suggestions....
I see, from your writings, that you have been of a lot of support to her, in the past, for some specific reasons...so, I can see you very much as the "caretaker" one, in these situations...and, you are able to hold up when she "needs you"....
I can imagine that it must feel very strange to you...and, perhaps, cause you to wonder if she is lost, to you...now that she doesn't "need" you with her recovery from alcoholism....like a major shift ...like a fault shift in the relationship...(think earthquake)....
IF you have not read the "bible" around here..."CO-Dependent No More"....I hope you will do so. It is an easy read and a real eye opener.....
(If you do read it...I would love to hear your evaluation of the book)....
Now...to add insult to injury , with my referring reading materials to you...lol....
You are probably too young to remember...but...there was a book that was all the rage, several years ago...at the top of the bestseller list for a long time....
"Women are from Venus/Men are from Mars".....if you are interested...it gives an interesting explanation of how women and men tend to socialize differently when dealing with their feelings...much like I described to you, in my post that you referenced....
dandylion...the librarian...has now left the building....
There is a lot that I think will benefit you....
Now, I know that you have stated, several times that you have read everything that has been written on the subject....lol...so, I hope that your hair will not go on fire at my suggestions....
I see, from your writings, that you have been of a lot of support to her, in the past, for some specific reasons...so, I can see you very much as the "caretaker" one, in these situations...and, you are able to hold up when she "needs you"....
I can imagine that it must feel very strange to you...and, perhaps, cause you to wonder if she is lost, to you...now that she doesn't "need" you with her recovery from alcoholism....like a major shift ...like a fault shift in the relationship...(think earthquake)....
IF you have not read the "bible" around here..."CO-Dependent No More"....I hope you will do so. It is an easy read and a real eye opener.....
(If you do read it...I would love to hear your evaluation of the book)....
Now...to add insult to injury , with my referring reading materials to you...lol....
You are probably too young to remember...but...there was a book that was all the rage, several years ago...at the top of the bestseller list for a long time....
"Women are from Venus/Men are from Mars".....if you are interested...it gives an interesting explanation of how women and men tend to socialize differently when dealing with their feelings...much like I described to you, in my post that you referenced....
dandylion...the librarian...has now left the building....
Interesting observation. Yes... me as "caretaker" and her now looking elsewhere for it. Nail on the head. "Poor me, what about me?" I hear in the very dark recesses of my mind.
I am in the middle of "CO-Dependent No More" ordered last week on reco here. And I read "Empowered Recovery" also reco here - that one really pissed me off. Came down to two choices - fully recovered or get out now".
And I am old enough to have read That book "Women are from Venus/Men are from Mars" as I am also old enough know know better!!!!!
But when it's in your face, sometimes you just have to say "huh"
I found this interesting article pertaining to my situation:
https://www.thecut.com/2015/12/frien...air-c-v-r.html
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DWH....an interesting article. but, don't let it set you spinning, too much....
For what it is worth....I think that men need men time away from their wives, sometimes, also....Of course, they don't spend that time in the same ways that women do, usually.. They do man things that men seem to understand....
this is not just me saying this...as it has been written about by others who study such things...
Men seem to get something special when they are abound the fire, beating on drums...or, watching the game together...or, working on a car, together, while under the hood of a car...or smoking cigars and drinking manhattans in a wood-paneled club house......
What ever that is..is something different than what they get from women...maybe, something that is encoded in the primitive lizard brain...?
Patterns of human socialization are complex...and pliable...like a kalidescope...
I have sent you a PM (private message)....look for the flashing black bar in the upper, right hand side of your screen.....
For what it is worth....I think that men need men time away from their wives, sometimes, also....Of course, they don't spend that time in the same ways that women do, usually.. They do man things that men seem to understand....
this is not just me saying this...as it has been written about by others who study such things...
Men seem to get something special when they are abound the fire, beating on drums...or, watching the game together...or, working on a car, together, while under the hood of a car...or smoking cigars and drinking manhattans in a wood-paneled club house......
What ever that is..is something different than what they get from women...maybe, something that is encoded in the primitive lizard brain...?
Patterns of human socialization are complex...and pliable...like a kalidescope...
I have sent you a PM (private message)....look for the flashing black bar in the upper, right hand side of your screen.....
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 219
DWH,
I too was faced with a similar situation... while in Sober Living, my wife was very close to a couple of the ladies that she shared the House with. I was very much removed from the daily going-ons as I was in another city and working. I had to trust my wife that everything was on the up and up and that nothing was taking place behind my back... most of the issue was my own insecurity... and it is something i just had to, and still at times, have to get over.
I too was faced with a similar situation... while in Sober Living, my wife was very close to a couple of the ladies that she shared the House with. I was very much removed from the daily going-ons as I was in another city and working. I had to trust my wife that everything was on the up and up and that nothing was taking place behind my back... most of the issue was my own insecurity... and it is something i just had to, and still at times, have to get over.
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Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
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Originally Posted by donewithhurting
Al-Anon. But I have a problem with the "powerless" approach to both programs. Perhaps just my own issue. I believe we all make choices in our lives and to give up that power takes away personal responsibility.
it can be as simple as i want it, and simple is good for me:
i cant control what another person drinks or does- i have no power over them.
the step says we were powerless over alcohol-it doesnt say we were powerless over our choices,over our life, or over our relationships with other people.
im powerless over people, but not how i react or respond to them. im also not powerless over whether i allow their behavior around me or not
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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But I have a problem with the "powerless" approach to both programs.
Control, jealous, insecurity, ultimatums, threats, etc. are the tools used to push people father away from you.
In return the tools she chooses to use in retaliation will also strike hard.
Work you own program and allow her to work hers. If you can’t get ahold of your own feelings and really can’t trust her, then find the door.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by atalose
I would caution you that when you feel out of control the weapons you chose strike hard.
Control, jealous, insecurity, ultimatums, threats, etc. are the tools used to push people father away from you.
In return the tools she chooses to use in retaliation will also strike hard.
Work you own program and allow her to work hers. If you can’t get ahold of your own feelings and really can’t trust her, then find the door.
Control, jealous, insecurity, ultimatums, threats, etc. are the tools used to push people father away from you.
In return the tools she chooses to use in retaliation will also strike hard.
Work you own program and allow her to work hers. If you can’t get ahold of your own feelings and really can’t trust her, then find the door.
We worked through those.
And yes she lies about drinking... and God knows what else...so...
If she is committed to the program, will the lies stop?
The lies are the worst of it. How can I know where I stand if the ground is made of quicksand?
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
Originally Posted by donewithhurting
Yes has has cheated in the past PA & EAs.
We worked through those.
And yes she lies about drinking... and God knows what else...so...
If she is committed to the program, will the lies stop?
The lies are the worst of it. How can I know where I stand if the ground is made of quicksand?
We worked through those.
And yes she lies about drinking... and God knows what else...so...
If she is committed to the program, will the lies stop?
The lies are the worst of it. How can I know where I stand if the ground is made of quicksand?
There are NEVER any guarantees or surety that someone is being honest with you. Trust is a leap of faith--sometimes more so than others. Without it, relationships cannot grow.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I think here is an important issue. Even when someone is sober, they don't necessarily become some wonderful person. The lies may not stop b/c that is who she is, plus or minus drinking.
If she is actually committed and working her recovery, she won't lie. True recovery is so much more than being sober.
If she is actually committed and working her recovery, she won't lie. True recovery is so much more than being sober.
Originally Posted by donewithhurting
Yes has has cheated in the past PA & EAs.
We worked through those.
And yes she lies about drinking... and God knows what else...so...
If she is committed to the program, will the lies stop?
The lies are the worst of it. How can I know where I stand if the ground is made of quicksand?
We worked through those.
And yes she lies about drinking... and God knows what else...so...
If she is committed to the program, will the lies stop?
The lies are the worst of it. How can I know where I stand if the ground is made of quicksand?
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Originally Posted by donewithhurting
If she is committed to the program, will the lies stop?
The lies are the worst of it. How can I know where I stand if the ground is made of quicksand?
The lies are the worst of it. How can I know where I stand if the ground is made of quicksand?
This is what EVERY one of us F&F members has to decide - can we accept the "potentials" if we stay knowing that there are never any guarantees or any way of controlling it?
Yes has has cheated in the past PA & EAs.
We worked through those.
And yes she lies about drinking... and God knows what else...so...
We worked through those.
And yes she lies about drinking... and God knows what else...so...
I think what you are discovering, in all honesty, is that you had an Illusion of Control sustaining you in this relationship since whatever previous problems you faced as a couple.... and now that things have progressed, you're trying to get that "control" back again all the while realizing it wasn't working anyway.
None of us can help you get control over her or her recovery. It would - again- only ever be an illusion anyway. A temporary band aid that gives you false security - is that what you really want?
Control comes from YOUR side of the street. From YOUR recovery, YOUR boundary setting. From You walking YOUR talk.
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dwh......As I see it...the general answer is that if she diligently works a program with sobriety as her first priority..over all things...one could expect a ret urn to honesty....As, AA emphasizes honesty I n all of one's affairs...as I understand it.,,
Important to remember that this is not an immediate thing....it may take 1-2-3-4-5 yrs....depending on who you talk to...and, the variables of the individual person.
This is why it is so hard to give a black and white answer to your question...
The process of working the steps can serve to help a person change the alcoholic thinking ("stinking thinking")...which can change attitudes...which can be translated into observable change in behaviors......
Now...here we go again...so far, you have already read everything that has been suggested...lol.....However, I am going to go out on a l imb and suggest an article by Floyd P. Garrett, M.D. (psychiatrist).....He has written some of the best explanations of alcoholic thinking that I have read....Actually he has written a lot of articles...some are more technical than others.....
http://www.bma-wellness.com/papers/A..._Lies_Rel.html
Important to remember that this is not an immediate thing....it may take 1-2-3-4-5 yrs....depending on who you talk to...and, the variables of the individual person.
This is why it is so hard to give a black and white answer to your question...
The process of working the steps can serve to help a person change the alcoholic thinking ("stinking thinking")...which can change attitudes...which can be translated into observable change in behaviors......
Now...here we go again...so far, you have already read everything that has been suggested...lol.....However, I am going to go out on a l imb and suggest an article by Floyd P. Garrett, M.D. (psychiatrist).....He has written some of the best explanations of alcoholic thinking that I have read....Actually he has written a lot of articles...some are more technical than others.....
http://www.bma-wellness.com/papers/A..._Lies_Rel.html
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 844
Originally Posted by donewithhurting
Yes has has cheated in the past PA & EAs.
We worked through those.
And yes she lies about drinking... and God knows what else...so...
If she is committed to the program, will the lies stop?
The lies are the worst of it. How can I know where I stand if the ground is made of quicksand?
We worked through those.
And yes she lies about drinking... and God knows what else...so...
If she is committed to the program, will the lies stop?
The lies are the worst of it. How can I know where I stand if the ground is made of quicksand?
I didn't find out when my husband was in active addiction. He had already stopped. But, if he had still been drinking, using drugs, lying to me about all kinds of things - there is no way I could have trusted him. There would have been no basis to even begin at that point.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
the 12 steps are not a pathway to sainthood. the AA program does not claim to heal every ill. it does say that RARELY have we seen a person fail who has THOROUGHLY followed our path. it talks about COMPLETELY giving oneself to the program. that half measures avail us NOTHING.
step 4 calls for a searching and FEARLESS moral inventory. there is discussion of RIGOROUS honesty. continuing to take personal inventory and when wrong PROMPTLY admitting it. working with others.
the BB also states: No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints.
going to meetings and hanging out with sober buddies is not what is considered working the program. it's fine, it's encouraged, but that's like hitting the juice bar at the gym. the real work comes from going inside and doing the heavy lifting. one has to be WILLING to change. to have enough insight to see one's own wrongs and WANT to change behaviors, outlook, modus operandi.
the same could be said of therapy. one can go and talk the therapist's ears off and never really make headway. it's the difference between Talking the Talk and Walking the Walk.
step 4 calls for a searching and FEARLESS moral inventory. there is discussion of RIGOROUS honesty. continuing to take personal inventory and when wrong PROMPTLY admitting it. working with others.
the BB also states: No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints.
going to meetings and hanging out with sober buddies is not what is considered working the program. it's fine, it's encouraged, but that's like hitting the juice bar at the gym. the real work comes from going inside and doing the heavy lifting. one has to be WILLING to change. to have enough insight to see one's own wrongs and WANT to change behaviors, outlook, modus operandi.
the same could be said of therapy. one can go and talk the therapist's ears off and never really make headway. it's the difference between Talking the Talk and Walking the Walk.
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: PRINCETON, TX
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by tomsteve
a little from the big book:
None of us makes a sole vocation of this work, nor do we think its effectiveness would be increased if we did. We feel that elimination of our drinking is but a beginning. A much more important demonstration of our principles lies before us in our respective homes, occupations and affairs . All of us spend much of our spare time in the sort of effort which we are going to describe.
is it a good thing for her recovery? not my place to say, but it reads like an issue for you, so would be wise to find out why and work on you.
IN AA- have a sponsor? working the steps?
or just AROUND AA?
None of us makes a sole vocation of this work, nor do we think its effectiveness would be increased if we did. We feel that elimination of our drinking is but a beginning. A much more important demonstration of our principles lies before us in our respective homes, occupations and affairs . All of us spend much of our spare time in the sort of effort which we are going to describe.
is it a good thing for her recovery? not my place to say, but it reads like an issue for you, so would be wise to find out why and work on you.
IN AA- have a sponsor? working the steps?
or just AROUND AA?
Member
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: PRINCETON, TX
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
the 12 steps are not a pathway to sainthood. the AA program does not claim to heal every ill. it does say that RARELY have we seen a person fail who has THOROUGHLY followed our path. it talks about COMPLETELY giving oneself to the program. that half measures avail us NOTHING.
step 4 calls for a searching and FEARLESS moral inventory. there is discussion of RIGOROUS honesty. continuing to take personal inventory and when wrong PROMPTLY admitting it. working with others.
the BB also states: No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints.
going to meetings and hanging out with sober buddies is not what is considered working the program. it's fine, it's encouraged, but that's like hitting the juice bar at the gym. the real work comes from going inside and doing the heavy lifting. one has to be WILLING to change. to have enough insight to see one's own wrongs and WANT to change behaviors, outlook, modus operandi.
the same could be said of therapy. one can go and talk the therapist's ears off and never really make headway. it's the difference between Talking the Talk and Walking the Walk.
step 4 calls for a searching and FEARLESS moral inventory. there is discussion of RIGOROUS honesty. continuing to take personal inventory and when wrong PROMPTLY admitting it. working with others.
the BB also states: No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints.
going to meetings and hanging out with sober buddies is not what is considered working the program. it's fine, it's encouraged, but that's like hitting the juice bar at the gym. the real work comes from going inside and doing the heavy lifting. one has to be WILLING to change. to have enough insight to see one's own wrongs and WANT to change behaviors, outlook, modus operandi.
the same could be said of therapy. one can go and talk the therapist's ears off and never really make headway. it's the difference between Talking the Talk and Walking the Walk.
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