Texts with AW today
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 151
Originally Posted by hopeful4 
I guess for myself I need to clarify and say this. Recovery is a long road. Not one that happens overnight. However, I do not believe if you are blaming everyone but yourself you can even begin. Just my opinion.
As far as saying someone is a good or a bad parent, my comment to this would be that I don't think it's even possible to be a good parent if you have not even begun recovery. Also my opinion.
In my world, you have kids and they become #1. Their needs before yours. You had them, so you are responsible for them, and to what is best for them. I will also clarify one more thing. I am sure the children are taken care of. I am more talking about their emotional well being. If she is running them down, etc, that is not taking care of their, or her, emotions.
I am sorry if any of this is harsh or hurtful, it's not meant to be, as I know it's painful to watch those you care about go down the rabbit hole of addiction.
I truly hope that she gets the help she needs so she can absolutely become the person she needs to be, the children need her to be, and you need her to be.
As far as saying someone is a good or a bad parent, my comment to this would be that I don't think it's even possible to be a good parent if you have not even begun recovery. Also my opinion.
In my world, you have kids and they become #1. Their needs before yours. You had them, so you are responsible for them, and to what is best for them. I will also clarify one more thing. I am sure the children are taken care of. I am more talking about their emotional well being. If she is running them down, etc, that is not taking care of their, or her, emotions.
I am sorry if any of this is harsh or hurtful, it's not meant to be, as I know it's painful to watch those you care about go down the rabbit hole of addiction.
I truly hope that she gets the help she needs so she can absolutely become the person she needs to be, the children need her to be, and you need her to be.
My own is this: you can be both a "good parent" and a "bad parent" at the exact same time.
Indeed, I'd wager most of us human parents are exactly that.
I've known parents who were so solicitous of their children's "emotional well being" that they've left their kids unprepared for dealing with the "real world" where their teacher, boss, or whatever doesn't give a chit about their "emotional well being." I believe we're calling them snowflakes today.
I've known parents who completely ignored their children's "emotional well being" and wondered why (as adults) they don't call home.
Most of us fall in the middle - it's the small slights . . . often not intended AS slights. . . that leave scars.
If you say to a child: "math isn't your strong suit" -- that may indeed be true; but it may also lead the child to think they can't do math.
It's almost unavoidable - again, IMO.
As I say to my own kids: it'll give you something to talk about in therapy later in life.
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: PRINCETON, TX
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by biminiblue
As an alcoholic in "recovery" myself I can say that alcoholism is in fact an either-or. Binary.
Either I'm pouring alcohol into my own mouth, or I'm not.
"Recovery" happens after the drink disappears. Not before, not while drinking, not in between relapses.
The first step is to admit defeat and stop putting it in the mouth.
Then recovery happens. So. Just to clarify.
Either I'm pouring alcohol into my own mouth, or I'm not.
"Recovery" happens after the drink disappears. Not before, not while drinking, not in between relapses.
The first step is to admit defeat and stop putting it in the mouth.
Then recovery happens. So. Just to clarify.
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 151
Here, from the SoberRecovery Web site, forum on "What is Recovery" the "definitions" sticky - a definition of "recovery":
Recovery
To return to an original state; "the recovery of the forest after the fire was surprisingly rapid"
convalescence: gradual healing (through rest) after sickness or injury
the act of regaining or saving something lost (or in danger of becoming lost).
In terms of codependency, recovery is you regaining your own life. Returning to the original you, prior to codependent issues overtaking your life. Saving yourself.
Alternately, here's another view of recovery;
At any given time, there are a number of people who are working, deliberately and through particular disciplined behaviors, to end their dependence on alcohol or drugs. The term "recovery" can serve as convenient shorthand for that complex and difficult effort.
For some, the term has a more definite meaning. Those people, usually encouraged by the programs that they are using to end their addictive behaviors, think of themselves as being "in recovery", and they contrast that state with the state of being "in relapse" - i.e. actively drinking and drugging. To such individuals, recovery is more than convenient shorthand; they view recovery as the condition in which they intend to spend the rest of their lives, and remaining in recovery, for them, is quite literally a matter of life or death.
I subscribe to the bolded definition of recovery above. It's an "act" a "working on."
Anvil - you appear to subscribe to the italicized definition above.
Neither is wrong; both are correct.
Ying/yang.
MCESaint
Recovery
To return to an original state; "the recovery of the forest after the fire was surprisingly rapid"
convalescence: gradual healing (through rest) after sickness or injury
the act of regaining or saving something lost (or in danger of becoming lost).
In terms of codependency, recovery is you regaining your own life. Returning to the original you, prior to codependent issues overtaking your life. Saving yourself.
Alternately, here's another view of recovery;
At any given time, there are a number of people who are working, deliberately and through particular disciplined behaviors, to end their dependence on alcohol or drugs. The term "recovery" can serve as convenient shorthand for that complex and difficult effort.
For some, the term has a more definite meaning. Those people, usually encouraged by the programs that they are using to end their addictive behaviors, think of themselves as being "in recovery", and they contrast that state with the state of being "in relapse" - i.e. actively drinking and drugging. To such individuals, recovery is more than convenient shorthand; they view recovery as the condition in which they intend to spend the rest of their lives, and remaining in recovery, for them, is quite literally a matter of life or death.
I subscribe to the bolded definition of recovery above. It's an "act" a "working on."
Anvil - you appear to subscribe to the italicized definition above.
Neither is wrong; both are correct.
Ying/yang.
MCESaint
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,424
I appreciate your love and commitment to your wife,
but as a child who grew up with an alcoholic mother,
I also think seven years or more of dealing with such a parent
is a very difficult burden for a child, who has no choice in the matter
and whose entire psyche is still in formation.
I know I have carried life-long damage from this,
and it wasn't something easily resolved by visiting a therapist.
My lack of intimacy, trust, and own alcohol use
is deeply embedded in how I grew up.
My adult response to that is my own issue, I recognize,
but there is clearly a link between how I grew up and what
that has meant to my development into both a codependent and addict.
but as a child who grew up with an alcoholic mother,
I also think seven years or more of dealing with such a parent
is a very difficult burden for a child, who has no choice in the matter
and whose entire psyche is still in formation.
I know I have carried life-long damage from this,
and it wasn't something easily resolved by visiting a therapist.
My lack of intimacy, trust, and own alcohol use
is deeply embedded in how I grew up.
My adult response to that is my own issue, I recognize,
but there is clearly a link between how I grew up and what
that has meant to my development into both a codependent and addict.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
How can we help you MCE Saint?
I truly wish to support you in whatever way we can here at SR. I believe people are trying to offer you empathy and maybe some insight to where they are now, years later.
How is your wife doing now, a couple of days later? I hope she is embracing this opportunity.
I truly wish to support you in whatever way we can here at SR. I believe people are trying to offer you empathy and maybe some insight to where they are now, years later.
How is your wife doing now, a couple of days later? I hope she is embracing this opportunity.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 844
Originally Posted by MCESaint
Look, I like having this forum because I don't have access to a group of people who can "relate" to having an AW, AH, ABF, AGF, etc.
On the other hand, I also *hate* this forum from time-to-time too.
One of the things I hate is the "binary thinking" and urge to label - good parent/bad parent; in recovery/not in recovery, etc.
Truth is, we are ALL less than perfect humans and, therefore, less than perfect parents, husbands, wives, etc.
In my case, my daughter moved out NOT ONLY because she had issues with mom, but she had issues with me too related to how *I* dealt with the situation. I got to own my portion. If you're not owning your own chit, then you're not doing it right, IMO. Fortunately, D and I are working through many of those issues; but it's a work in progress.
I think recovery for an addict is like that too: a work in progress.
So I think less in terms of "is W *in* recovery?" (State 1) or "is W *not* in recovery?" (State 2); but I think in terms of analog -- she's no longer drinking (State = 0) but she's not well enough to be out in the real world (let's say, that's State = 10). Let's call the state she is in (hospitalized and detoxing) State = 0.185. Hopefully, she'll move on to State 2.01 and then to State 2.35, etc.
But, honestly, I believe for her (if not for most addicts) "progress" is going to be more like State = 2.01 to State = 0.55 to State = 1.99 to 2.57 to 3.012 to 2.10, etc. In other words on the road to State = 10 "well enough to be in the real world" the graph looks more like a mountain range than a ramp.
Having said that - my words to AW sound a bit like Yoda: "Do or don't do. There is no try."
As for me, I'm trying really, really trying hard not to get caught up in her daily/weekly blips of going up or down on the scale. It's ONE way for ME to get off of HER roller coaster.
MCESaint
On the other hand, I also *hate* this forum from time-to-time too.
One of the things I hate is the "binary thinking" and urge to label - good parent/bad parent; in recovery/not in recovery, etc.
Truth is, we are ALL less than perfect humans and, therefore, less than perfect parents, husbands, wives, etc.
In my case, my daughter moved out NOT ONLY because she had issues with mom, but she had issues with me too related to how *I* dealt with the situation. I got to own my portion. If you're not owning your own chit, then you're not doing it right, IMO. Fortunately, D and I are working through many of those issues; but it's a work in progress.
I think recovery for an addict is like that too: a work in progress.
So I think less in terms of "is W *in* recovery?" (State 1) or "is W *not* in recovery?" (State 2); but I think in terms of analog -- she's no longer drinking (State = 0) but she's not well enough to be out in the real world (let's say, that's State = 10). Let's call the state she is in (hospitalized and detoxing) State = 0.185. Hopefully, she'll move on to State 2.01 and then to State 2.35, etc.
But, honestly, I believe for her (if not for most addicts) "progress" is going to be more like State = 2.01 to State = 0.55 to State = 1.99 to 2.57 to 3.012 to 2.10, etc. In other words on the road to State = 10 "well enough to be in the real world" the graph looks more like a mountain range than a ramp.
Having said that - my words to AW sound a bit like Yoda: "Do or don't do. There is no try."
As for me, I'm trying really, really trying hard not to get caught up in her daily/weekly blips of going up or down on the scale. It's ONE way for ME to get off of HER roller coaster.
MCESaint
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