Poking the bear and how did you know?
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Poking the bear and how did you know?
Im discovering RAH may not be capable of a healthy relationship. Ive got a lot to work on myself, but he doesn't have the basics down. I thought the issues were because he was an alcoholic and his brain was pickled. It seems to not be the case. . He's been sober 2 months after being an alcoholic for 18 years. A binge drinker before that, and started taking his dad's beers sometimes around age 12. Will he adjust when he levels out, is this temporary?
Yeah I've let him have it a few times a week for 2 months. I asked him to leave many times. He won't, and for the time being, I can't. If he'd move the h*ll out like I've asked this would be more civil. I've had all I can take with him and I just need some space. He is being nice and accommodating in many ways. But, I told him he will have to endure my emotional swings if he's going to stay here. You gotta quit poking the bear because the bear has all she can take!
When he was drinking he couldn't give me the very foundation of a relationship. (1) He couldn't be there for me with any reliability when I needed him. I went through my moms death by myself. Not all his doing, I was very closed off and angry with him (I did have a great counselor who walked me through the grief steps). (2) And I couldn't trust him enough to open up. Those are still issues. I've been able to talk rationally for the past two weeks when we actually discuss things, so that's progress! I dont go off a sobbing mess anymore.
I guess he's tired of dealing with my emotions. He says he feels attacked. I told him I can admit he is, by me, and I'm working to get control of that. Lately when I try to talk to him, he says I'm just trying to start a fight. I'm not, I just need to get things out and there are some questions I need answered. And I've gotten a couple of eye rolls. The angry me just wanted to punch him, but I got up and went to my room.
If Im doing something wrong, tell me. I think I should be able to calmly, mostly accusingly, say what's on my mind a few times a week.
Yeah I've let him have it a few times a week for 2 months. I asked him to leave many times. He won't, and for the time being, I can't. If he'd move the h*ll out like I've asked this would be more civil. I've had all I can take with him and I just need some space. He is being nice and accommodating in many ways. But, I told him he will have to endure my emotional swings if he's going to stay here. You gotta quit poking the bear because the bear has all she can take!
When he was drinking he couldn't give me the very foundation of a relationship. (1) He couldn't be there for me with any reliability when I needed him. I went through my moms death by myself. Not all his doing, I was very closed off and angry with him (I did have a great counselor who walked me through the grief steps). (2) And I couldn't trust him enough to open up. Those are still issues. I've been able to talk rationally for the past two weeks when we actually discuss things, so that's progress! I dont go off a sobbing mess anymore.
I guess he's tired of dealing with my emotions. He says he feels attacked. I told him I can admit he is, by me, and I'm working to get control of that. Lately when I try to talk to him, he says I'm just trying to start a fight. I'm not, I just need to get things out and there are some questions I need answered. And I've gotten a couple of eye rolls. The angry me just wanted to punch him, but I got up and went to my room.
If Im doing something wrong, tell me. I think I should be able to calmly, mostly accusingly, say what's on my mind a few times a week.
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Your relationship sounds exactly like mine. My H has been sober for 10 months and still can't process having a relationship. His way of what a relationship is so different from mine that I don't think there's a place in the middle to reach. He doesn't want to deal with my issues because he doesn't want a different type of relationship. I can keep poking the bear to try to make him change or I can walk away knowing there are men out there that want the type of relationship that will make me happy but I'll never be happy like this. There's only so much talking that I can do before I realize it won't really matter to him. Having him home 24/7 does not help.
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If things are starting to heat up, maybe a joint counseling session would be good.
It really sounds like you may be headed for a permanent separation if he won't
respect your wishes for a temporary one.
Have you been clear about that? By this I mean told him directly that staying
in the home at this time may lead to divorce?
It really sounds like you have had enough.
Maybe I'm not understanding where you are coming from, so sorry if that isn't the case.
It really sounds like you may be headed for a permanent separation if he won't
respect your wishes for a temporary one.
Have you been clear about that? By this I mean told him directly that staying
in the home at this time may lead to divorce?
It really sounds like you have had enough.
Maybe I'm not understanding where you are coming from, so sorry if that isn't the case.
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wamma....(I just put a post on your other thread).
It takes about 6 months for the alcoholic brain to just clear most of the fog...after long term drinking,, like your husband....some say that it is more like a year....but, the worst is the first six months.
It takes longer than that for the alcoholic thinking, attitudes and behaviors to change in a genuine, lasting kind of way....that takes about 1-2-.....5 yrs....depending on who you talk to. That is when one is working a diligent program.
I think you are expecting and awful lot from the both of you, this soon....
It is o.k. to "feel like punching him"....as long as you don't carry through with it...lol....
Aggressively chewing him out is very counter productive.
Maybe, try writing the ideas that you want to share with him on paper and reading it, would be a better idea...
It takes about 6 months for the alcoholic brain to just clear most of the fog...after long term drinking,, like your husband....some say that it is more like a year....but, the worst is the first six months.
It takes longer than that for the alcoholic thinking, attitudes and behaviors to change in a genuine, lasting kind of way....that takes about 1-2-.....5 yrs....depending on who you talk to. That is when one is working a diligent program.
I think you are expecting and awful lot from the both of you, this soon....
It is o.k. to "feel like punching him"....as long as you don't carry through with it...lol....
Aggressively chewing him out is very counter productive.
Maybe, try writing the ideas that you want to share with him on paper and reading it, would be a better idea...
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Join Date: Jan 2018
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You're right, there is only so much that can be said before it just doesn't even register anymore. Wow, 10 months is a long time. I don't know how you have managed to stay sane. I understand being together 24/7. My RAH is on disability, so unless he goes somewhere with someone else, or I drop him off somewhere,we are in the same house. All the time.
Originally Posted by hearthealth 
Your relationship sounds exactly like mine. My H has been sober for 10 months and still can't process having a relationship. His way of what a relationship is so different from mine that I don't think there's a place in the middle to reach. He doesn't want to deal with my issues because he doesn't want a different type of relationship. I can keep poking the bear to try to make him change or I can walk away knowing there are men out there that want the type of relationship that will make me happy but I'll never be happy like this. There's only so much talking that I can do before I realize it won't really matter to him. Having him home 24/7 does not help.
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No ,I haven't told him if he stays here there might be a long term separation. I never thought to share that with him, duh. I just assumed he knew since he was upset the other day saying its like Im trying to push him out and get rid of him. Good gosh, no kidding.
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Well,
Sometimes it's best to see the situation for what it is. In my marriage , my husbands idea of a relationship changed over time. He did not grow up with a mother who had a job so he did not know how a marriage with a spouse who has a career , works. He wanted me to work and then to do everything that a housewife does too- which includes cooking everyday and fresh meals for dinner every night. These were not things we had talked about while we were dating and he was on board with my career - I guess I just never realiZed that he did not know that that meant compromising. Well at his convenience , 3 years into our marriage , he wanted me to quit my career and stay at home- mind you , we have no kids.
Anyway, he also has alcohol issues which further make sane communication a dream. But, I realised that even if alcohol was not in the equation , we would probably never get on the same page with things. So, after I got poked enough, I eventually walked away after asking him to leave and tiring myself out. The choice was always mine.
Sometimes it's best to see the situation for what it is. In my marriage , my husbands idea of a relationship changed over time. He did not grow up with a mother who had a job so he did not know how a marriage with a spouse who has a career , works. He wanted me to work and then to do everything that a housewife does too- which includes cooking everyday and fresh meals for dinner every night. These were not things we had talked about while we were dating and he was on board with my career - I guess I just never realiZed that he did not know that that meant compromising. Well at his convenience , 3 years into our marriage , he wanted me to quit my career and stay at home- mind you , we have no kids.
Anyway, he also has alcohol issues which further make sane communication a dream. But, I realised that even if alcohol was not in the equation , we would probably never get on the same page with things. So, after I got poked enough, I eventually walked away after asking him to leave and tiring myself out. The choice was always mine.
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I didn't realize it took so long for their brains to clear out. And you are sure right about the alcoholic attitudes, selfishness in his case, taking a while to change. I know chewing him out didn't help. It sure felt good to me. I did stop doing that recently. I haven't punched him, I walk away. I have never, ever been so aggressive and mean, this has definitely brought out a character flaw I was unaware of. Im dropping him at his AA meeting in a bit, he's always in a better mood after he goes.
Originally Posted by dandylion
wamma....(I just put a post on your other thread).
It takes about 6 months for the alcoholic brain to just clear most of the fog...after long term drinking,, like your husband....some say that it is more like a year....but, the worst is the first six months.
It takes longer than that for the alcoholic thinking, attitudes and behaviors to change in a genuine, lasting kind of way....that takes about 1-2-.....5 yrs....depending on who you talk to. That is when one is working a diligent program.
I think you are expecting and awful lot from the both of you, this soon....
It is o.k. to "feel like punching him"....as long as you don't carry through with it...lol....
Aggressively chewing him out is very counter productive.
Maybe, try writing the ideas that you want to share with him on paper and reading it, would be a better idea...
It takes about 6 months for the alcoholic brain to just clear most of the fog...after long term drinking,, like your husband....some say that it is more like a year....but, the worst is the first six months.
It takes longer than that for the alcoholic thinking, attitudes and behaviors to change in a genuine, lasting kind of way....that takes about 1-2-.....5 yrs....depending on who you talk to. That is when one is working a diligent program.
I think you are expecting and awful lot from the both of you, this soon....
It is o.k. to "feel like punching him"....as long as you don't carry through with it...lol....
Aggressively chewing him out is very counter productive.
Maybe, try writing the ideas that you want to share with him on paper and reading it, would be a better idea...
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He's been sober 2 months after being an alcoholic for 18 years... and started taking his dad's beers sometimes around age 12
I read or heard this once:
An addict's social development often stagnates at the point it was when he or she started using heavily.
I can say this accurately reflects what I observed with my husband, and with some other alcoholics I've met. My husband could function only *okay* at work,even though he was brilliant at what he did. His yearly reviews contained hints that his lack of judgement, sense of responsibility and level of maturity sometimes caused problems. At home the jokes and stories he found funny were often the kinds of things we thought were humorous in junior high school. His rationalizations for odd or rude behavior ranged from "How was I supposed to know?' to complaining that other people "weren't setting a good example." Once you'e in your 40s or 50s those just don't make sense. It's not just that alcohol causes normal people to act like jerks. It's that they stop maturing along with their peers.
It would make sense that some people spend years playing catch up.
I read or heard this once:
An addict's social development often stagnates at the point it was when he or she started using heavily.
I can say this accurately reflects what I observed with my husband, and with some other alcoholics I've met. My husband could function only *okay* at work,even though he was brilliant at what he did. His yearly reviews contained hints that his lack of judgement, sense of responsibility and level of maturity sometimes caused problems. At home the jokes and stories he found funny were often the kinds of things we thought were humorous in junior high school. His rationalizations for odd or rude behavior ranged from "How was I supposed to know?' to complaining that other people "weren't setting a good example." Once you'e in your 40s or 50s those just don't make sense. It's not just that alcohol causes normal people to act like jerks. It's that they stop maturing along with their peers.
It would make sense that some people spend years playing catch up.
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Yes, I've heard that too. In reference to my son-in-laws drug abuse,
and it rings true for him. He has a 15 hour a week job,
stays up all night playing video games and sleeps most of the day.
I see that in my husband also. He started in heavy at age 16.
He doesn't quite fit the typical mode. He's always had a steady, long time job, until going on disability, he took on my 4 girls when we married (one was my niece) and he is very responsible. With all things except his drinking. But he does fit the mold relationship wise 100%. To a T. That never really occurred to me, but yes, he does operate in a relationship the way a 16 year old does. Me, me me.
and it rings true for him. He has a 15 hour a week job,
stays up all night playing video games and sleeps most of the day.
I see that in my husband also. He started in heavy at age 16.
He doesn't quite fit the typical mode. He's always had a steady, long time job, until going on disability, he took on my 4 girls when we married (one was my niece) and he is very responsible. With all things except his drinking. But he does fit the mold relationship wise 100%. To a T. That never really occurred to me, but yes, he does operate in a relationship the way a 16 year old does. Me, me me.
Originally Posted by velma929
He's been sober 2 months after being an alcoholic for 18 years... and started taking his dad's beers sometimes around age 12
I read or heard this once:
An addict's social development often stagnates at the point it was when he or she started using heavily.
I can say this accurately reflects what I observed with my husband, and with some other alcoholics I've met. My husband could function only *okay* at work,even though he was brilliant at what he did. His yearly reviews contained hints that his lack of judgement, sense of responsibility and level of maturity sometimes caused problems. At home the jokes and stories he found funny were often the kinds of things we thought were humorous in junior high school. His rationalizations for odd or rude behavior ranged from "How was I supposed to know?' to complaining that other people "weren't setting a good example." Once you'e in your 40s or 50s those just don't make sense. It's not just that alcohol causes normal people to act like jerks. It's that they stop maturing along with their peers.
It would make sense that some people spend years playing catch up.
I read or heard this once:
An addict's social development often stagnates at the point it was when he or she started using heavily.
I can say this accurately reflects what I observed with my husband, and with some other alcoholics I've met. My husband could function only *okay* at work,even though he was brilliant at what he did. His yearly reviews contained hints that his lack of judgement, sense of responsibility and level of maturity sometimes caused problems. At home the jokes and stories he found funny were often the kinds of things we thought were humorous in junior high school. His rationalizations for odd or rude behavior ranged from "How was I supposed to know?' to complaining that other people "weren't setting a good example." Once you'e in your 40s or 50s those just don't make sense. It's not just that alcohol causes normal people to act like jerks. It's that they stop maturing along with their peers.
It would make sense that some people spend years playing catch up.
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Join Date: Mar 2018
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I was so happy with my AH being out of the house while he was at rehab! My home and family experienced the kinda peace that made myself and my children incredibly happy. I wasn't ready to give that up when he was ready to home home from treatment. I made it very clear to him as well as his counselor that he would have to go and live with his mother until our wounds were a little more healed. I allowed my husband to come over for short visits with our children and eventually we invited him for meals, etc. We dated again; all while he attended aftercare and my children and I attended family therapy. Although this was a slow process, it was necessary for myself as well as our children. I say all of this because maybe you should separate and give each other some extra time to heal and learn to be a couple again. That approach worked well for us.
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I don't think you are doing anything wrong. I think it's very, very difficult to live with someone while you are expecting some big change to happen with them. You are (rightfully so), quite angry, and have to work through that. Also difficult to do with him there.
Sending you huge hugs. Alanon or Celebrate Recovery, and a therapist who understands addiction (for you, alone), would be helpful if you don't already do those things.
Sending you huge hugs. Alanon or Celebrate Recovery, and a therapist who understands addiction (for you, alone), would be helpful if you don't already do those things.
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Originally Posted by Hawkeye13
If things are starting to heat up, maybe a joint counseling session would be good..
Here is what happened: when the marriage counselor said something to AH regarding my standpoint AH took it as gospel! Even though I had been saying the exact same thing for three weeks!
We are still not “working on the relationship” but rather on ourselves but the marriage counselor helped us set and respect each others boundaries without WWIII breaking out every time one of our boundaries were crossed by the other. I don’t think our marriage will survive but right now things are livable as they can be until we can get the house on the market etc.
he doesn’t want the marriage to end but I don’t see how it can be successful at this point.
Good luck! I have been in your shoes not too long ago and can say that the couple counseling did help some.
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In this case...being close to him causes her physical fear and panic.....
In this kind of situation....couples therapy can be more harmful...but, individual counseling with some one who is schooled in abuse and alcoholism might be the better choice...
In this kind of situation....couples therapy can be more harmful...but, individual counseling with some one who is schooled in abuse and alcoholism might be the better choice...
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I didn't realize it took so long for their brains to clear out. And you are sure right about the alcoholic attitudes, selfishness in his case, taking a while to change.
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