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Old 03-09-2018, 11:49 AM   #41 (permalink)
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In reference to those who think I FORCED him to detox at home.....

When I found out that he had a problem, I was unaware that it was 3 years in the making. I told him that I would like to build a relationship with him, but only if he quit drinking. On his own he decided to quit cold turkey....or white knuckle as I've heard it called here on the site.

I DID NOT KNOW HIS ADDICTION WAS SO ADVANCED! He is capable of drinking up to five 750 ml bottles of Jim Beam before noon....every day.....for 3 years.

I let him take control of his own detox process. I thought he knew what he was doing because he said that he did. I was wrong and stupid to believe him...but after a while, I did take charge and took him to the ER.

During the first trip to the ER/ICU, I was informed that he also suffers anxiety and depression. He has a legit prescription for benzodiazepines, but doesn't take them like he is supposed to for whatever reason. When he decided to put down the bottle, he became anxious and decided that taking his medicine might help. Again, I didn't know enough about him or his illness to know what he should do and I thought he knew what was best. I DIDN'T MAKE HIM SUFFER! I wanted him to go to the hospital or find a detox center. He refused!

Our second trip to the ER a week or so later was because he was still taking his benzodiazepines along with the detox medication they gave him at the hospital. In a freak incident, he had a Absent Seizure and he passed out while I was at work. I found him in enough time to get him the help he needed. Medical doctors told me that there was no way I could have predicted something like this, it was nothing that he or I did, that these things happen when the body detoxes. He'd done so much damage to his liver and kidneys with drinking over the years, that his body was reacting to the process of detoxing.

After he got out of the hospital he showed up to my home drunk. I was angry and when I called my mother, he overheard us talking about how I should kick him out. He left before I could get off the phone and got a DUI. I didn't send him away and would have never advised him to drive in that condition. I likely would have let him sleep it off and allowed myself to cycle through his apologies and believe that the next day would be better....but it wasn't. I bailed him out and told him to leave. He was sober enough to drive at that point and I couldn't handle him being there.

He left, got drunk, came back to my home. I got home from work and found him not moving in his truck with the keys in the ignition.

I didn't want to send him to a mental hospital. But when he was drunk in his truck and passed out, I didn't leave him there. I called for help. The police gave me three choices-
1. He sleeps it off at my house once they get him out.
2. Jail for another DUI because he was behind the wheel of a running vehicle drunk.
3. Marchman Act and get him treatment.

Well, #1 wasn't the best choice because I knew it was just going to continue the cycle....that I in the beginning stages of trying to break. I didn't have the heart to send him back to jail if the police were giving me a choice and I honestly thought that Marchman Acting him would help. He'd get medical care and detox in a facility where he was safe.

I feel like people on this forum are judging me for my inexperience. They are judging the relationship because it was a lot of drama for a short amount of time. And rightfully so! I'm sure I'd do the same if I read such a dramatic episode of events without living them.

I know everyone here has had their own nightmare stories and I understand that I'm no better and no worse than anyone else who has suffered through similar situations. Mine just happen to be compacted to one month. No one in his family blames me. He doesn't even blame me. So why are people on this forum blaming me?

HIS choice to drink put US in those situations and I made decisions based on the resources I had available at the time. So the next time someone reads my story and things that I have "done enough TO this man" or tries to say that his one month sobriety at home with mom is enough to prove that I'm the cause of his drinking.....keep in mind that I didn't pour the bourbon down his throat and tell him to swallow yesterday....he did that on his own.
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Old 03-09-2018, 01:28 PM   #42 (permalink)
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You’ve done nothing wrong at all. You’ve shown great courage and empathy towards him and his parents. What you did was humane.

Having said that, alcoholism is a disease that makes the alcoholic behave in very selfish and sly ways. They crave the alcohol so much that they will lie, steal and anything else to get the drink. They use people. He’s used you and if you allow him to come near you, he’ll use you again.

He may be out on the steets, he may be out cold somewhere on a park bench. You’re not responsible for him. His parents have had this problem with him for years and they’re so tired of it... you’re enabling them to use you. They would love nothing more than for you to take in their son and care for him... to take over the enabling and give them some time off from the endless drama he’s created. I wish one of my son’s girlfriends would have done that too.

Not only is the alcoholic using you. His parents have an agenda too. Be aware of this and for your own sake, don’t make him your problem. Forget about him and don’t speak to his parents again. Keep away.... you’ve been a saint, now stop it.
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Old 03-09-2018, 01:40 PM   #43 (permalink)
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nitabug0107,

There is nothing wrong with showing someone compassion, but to do so for an addict you must be very careful and this is why... they are masters at taking advantage of our compassion and manipulating it for their benefit and our detriment....

Generally we as codependents want to be helpful in whatever way we can... our time, resources, home, etc to others in need... but an addict sees that as an opportunity to take advantage of, steal, abuse, etc.... Do they truly mean to do those things, probably not, but the disease of addiction is one that drives them to do completely irrational and illogical things that any sane person would not.

So my advice is this... as long as he is in active addiction, your compassion is an enabling tool for him that will delay his recovery. Once he chooses for himself that he needs the help, and starts working towards it, you can then show compassion and be there for him emotionally, spiritually, and even physically. However, you must be conscious of your actions to make sure he is not manipulating you into doing things that he can/should be doing for himself.

It is difficult what you are going thru... and there are great people on this site that have much wisdom and experience with what you are enduring.
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Old 03-09-2018, 01:43 PM   #44 (permalink)
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This thread from the stickies might offer some insight:

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...y-they-do.html (To newbies - why people respond the way they do)
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Old 03-09-2018, 01:57 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by honeypig View Post
This thread from the stickies might offer some insight:
Thank you for sharing that link. It makes more sense. I hope no one feels like I am rebuking their advice or like I'm not interested in their help. It's so much to deal with and for weeks I have felt alone in all of it.
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Old 03-09-2018, 02:00 PM   #46 (permalink)
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nita, thanks for giving me the opportunity to post that link b/c I actually read the thread all the way through this time, something I had not done before. There is some really good discussion there, and I'd urge anyone here, newbie or not, who has not read the whole thing, to do so when they have a moment. Very worthwhile and enlightening, I thought.

And I'm glad you found some clarity in it, nita.
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Old 03-09-2018, 02:00 PM   #47 (permalink)
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nitabug0107,

Generally we as codependents want to be helpful in whatever way we can... our time, resources, home, etc to others in need... but an addict sees that as an opportunity to take advantage of, steal, abuse, etc.... Do they truly mean to do those things, probably not, but the disease of addiction is one that drives them to do completely irrational and illogical things that any sane person would not.
Thank you for helping me find words for how it felt. The word I have been looking for is not just the feelings of sadness or worry, but used and manipulated.
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Old 03-09-2018, 02:12 PM   #48 (permalink)
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nitabug....Please consider this fact.....this is a public forum, so, naturally, we get all types of personalities, here. Each person is different and have a different "style" of posting. Everything from very gentle...to "in your face" confrontation.
Because of this...we have some advice for those who feel misunderstood...like I think you must be feeling, right now....We say---"Take only what works and leave the rest".....I think that is what you should do, right now. As far as I can see...there was only the one post that upset you....and, I see a LOT of other posters who see you as a compassionate person who was doing the best that you knew how. That is all that can be expected of anyone...right?
Please stop beating yourself up...and, you don't need to keep explaining yourself on this matter...because those of us who have been in relationships with alcoholics understand how hellish it can get...you can read that over and over, in the thousands of posts that we have here.....

I would like you to consider going to alanon meetings...because you need the support for your grieving and you need to heal....you can benefit from being in the room with others who understand, beyond words, what this is like....

In addition to the trauma of this....you have suffered a loss of something that you had hopes and dreams of....so, naturally, you are going to go through a period of grieving that loss...and, you will need to heal.....

Around here we have a saying about alcoholism..."The 3 C's"....
You didn't Cause it/You can't control it/ and, you can't Cure it.....
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Old 03-09-2018, 02:12 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Thank you for sharing that link. It makes more sense. I hope no one feels like I am rebuking their advice or like I'm not interested in their help. It's so much to deal with and for weeks I have felt alone in all of it.
You are never alone with this site.. people understand what you are going thru due to their own experiences and as such there is much support to be gained here.

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Old 03-09-2018, 04:18 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Nita, even if you placed him in a safe location, what then? Lock him in a room and slide in a tray of food three times a day? Even if he found shelter, how would you force him to stay?

I don't personally think of it as "a disease like any other disease." One doesn't recover from diabetes, cancer, polio, measles, by deciding to change your own behavior. I have great appreciation for a disease *analogy.* If my relative was diagnosed with diabetes, cancer, polio, or measles, I would not blame myself for her condition, nor would I try to cure her myself.
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Old 03-09-2018, 04:27 PM   #51 (permalink)
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I couldn't live like that. I got a divorce. I loved him. He didn't love him. I took care of him until he died- (took him to docs and got his groceries and meds)a terrible death. He just could not stop.
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Old 03-09-2018, 05:39 PM   #52 (permalink)
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i think you've "DONE" more than enough to this man and to his parents. and in very short order. i don't think you can really see the chaos that YOU have caused here.....

you "forced" a home detox on him that almost killed him in week one
you took him to the ICU by date #3
you invited him to stay with you , he had a seizure, off to the ER and you signed Emergency Power of Attorney
you brought him back to your home - he got drunk again - he left got a DUI
you then did a Marchman Act and he was sent to a mental institution
and that was just the month of JANUARY

February, AWAY from you, he stayed sober and began to feel better and have a better outlook

March he came to stay with you and in four days was again blind ass drunk and you stuffed him in a cab and sent him on his way.

and now are panicked about his whereabouts and getting his parents all worried and concerned. and you are considering filling a missing person's report and wondering what to do if he shows up during an active search.

you must thrive on drama. but seriously, look at your own actions here and what you have helped bring about in less than three months time.
Yes - a lot of drama, but


Didn't cause and can't control.

She didn't force home detox on him anymore than she can stop him from pouring the booze down his throat. He's not an amateur, she is
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Old 03-09-2018, 06:02 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Nitabug, I haven't read the responses, only your original post and my first question to you is

'why do you have such as need to rescue a man who only met again before Christmas?"

Do you think you can 'save' him, 'cure' him? You can't.
Do you think somehow you can 'change' him for the better? You can't

Run for the hills. Take this from someone who is married over 25 years to an A (he became an A early in our marriage, I didn't know what the craziness was, now I do). This relationship will destroy you, cause you years of heartache, false hope, sleepless nights, dashed dreams. Walk away now.
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Old 03-09-2018, 06:20 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Nitabug, your OP has wisdom and conflicting ideas. You want to help him and yet that's what codependents do. That's what also keeps your roller coaster moving. We can hope without being with them.

The only solution is .him. wanting to stay sober and recover 100%, every single day for the rest of .his. life. Knowing his status, answering the phone or helping him will do nothing for him if he doesn't stay committed to that goal. If you had the information today, what would that change tomarrow? He could be safe or not today and not tomarrow.

What are you doing for yourself to stop your mind from wandering to the what ifs of his life? Are you staying active in your own life? Going to counselling or Alanon. I would get so focused on him that I didn't realize how much of my day passes me by.
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Old 03-09-2018, 08:03 PM   #55 (permalink)
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What are you doing for yourself to stop your mind from wandering to the what ifs of his life? Are you staying active in your own life? Going to counselling or Alanon. I would get so focused on him that I didn't realize how much of my day passes me by.
I don't think I fully understood what a codependent was until today. I am conflicted. But as far as staying active in my own life, yes I am. I recently started an MBA program and I've been working very hard on an independent study project. I've started attending trivia nights with a group of new friends. And I stay busy when he's not around. He's still "missing" and yes, I'm worried. But instead of crying and trying to reach out to him, I'm making a wreath for spring to hang on my door and chatting with my best friend about her upcoming wedding.
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Old 03-09-2018, 08:18 PM   #56 (permalink)
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I can't lie. I am struggling. But I'm also trying to stay focused and be smart.

Many people have questioned why I care so deeply for only been seeing him for a short amount of time. I don't know if I have a reasonable answer for that, at least not one that won't be judged harshly.

I care about him because of the way he looks at me. He looks at me like I'm the most beautiful girl in the world. He looks at me with so much hope, like I really am all the wonderful things he says I am.

I did have hope that something new with someone who is seemingly so great was going to be fun and magical. And then it wasn't. And it's the hardest break up ever because I didn't know I'd have to.
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Old 03-09-2018, 09:30 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Spot on post Firebolt!
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Originally Posted by firebolt View Post
OK - I know this is how this all sounds to you.

For the record, we don't think active alcoholics are scum or worthless garbage....however...many of the things they do are pretty scummy, so...

We ALL love or loved alcoholics, and we've all felt the way you feel.

The reasons for disassociating from him entirely:

1 - you've known him for a couple months and hes put you through complete hell in that VERY SHORT amount of time.
2 - he does not want to stop drinking right now, so, this is as good as it gets my friend. It ONLY goes downhill from here, and from what you've been through, that's hard for me to even imagine.
3 - you are VERY invested in this person in a very short amount of time, and that's codependent behavior (ask us why we can spot that a mile away )
4 - Per # 3, you gotta figure out why you are so invested in someone you've known a couple months, and you can't do that when you are so focused on him
5 - we aren't recommending this because he needs "tough love" we're recommending this because he will drag you down through the pits of hell (more than he already has) if you don't save yourself
6 - you are very focused on helping someone who does not want to help themselves - and you cant - but if you're like us (and I think you are).... you'll kill yourself trying to help him and won't realize it until you wake up one day and and it occurs to you that you have migraines, insomnia, high blood pressure, hair loss, weight loss, weight gain, ptsd, and a couple years shaved off your life due to stress....OH and a lovely general feeling that you are a shadow of your former self, relatively soulless, and have NO sense of self - who you are, where you are going, or where you want to be.

If you don't believe me on this, keep doing what you're doing and check in with us here in 2 years...

You can love someone and hope the best for them from a distance - especially when they are in wrecking ball mode and don't give a crap who they hurt around them (friends, family, innocent motorists...)

The best thing to help him and yourself is to get out of the way. There is nothing you can do to support him until he is ready to help himself.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh - I remember being thoroughly offended when I first got here.....but please, PLEASE keep reading!

And (((HUGS)))) to you - there is no pain quite like loving an addict.
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Old 03-09-2018, 10:09 PM   #58 (permalink)
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nitabug.....for what it is worth...I consider the emotions that you describe as "normal" and expected and totally human.....for a romantic relationship...
Your feelings are real....in fact, all feelings are real , at baseline....

The hard part...really, really hard part is when our hopes and dreams, that these feelings arise from, are dashed for some reason....This is where we become heart-broken....Heart-broken is one of the most painful of human experiences. I have been there...so, I know what it feels like. Words don't do it justice. After the Fall--after the worst has come to pass...the thing that allows us to go on is the progression of the grieving process...which will, eventually, allow healing to take place.
I don't think a human, who lives out a long enough life, can get by without knowing the pain of loss....more than once, in most lifetimes.....
Fortunately, we are able to still go on with life. Thankfully, Mother Nature has provided for us to be able to do this...otherwise, our species would not have survived our long time on this planet....

LOL...forgive me for waxing so philosophical....I am just trying to say that I totally get where you are coming from, feeling-wise.....

I know it is hard to imagine it, right now---but, you will get through this...
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Old 03-09-2018, 10:10 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nitabug0107 View Post
I don't think I fully understood what a codependent was until today. I am conflicted. But as far as staying active in my own life, yes I am. I recently started an MBA program and I've been working very hard on an independent study project. I've started attending trivia nights with a group of new friends. And I stay busy when he's not around. He's still "missing" and yes, I'm worried. But instead of crying and trying to reach out to him, I'm making a wreath for spring to hang on my door and chatting with my best friend about her upcoming wedding.
Haa I still don't really know what codependency is because to be honest people have varying definitions. It basically is a term used by AA programs but what it really boils down to in my opinion is an addiction to another person. Usually someone who is broken/needy in some way. They readily accept the caretaking offered, and can also easily manipulate the emotional codependent into doing more and more for long periods of time.

When a person is addicted to substances, the mind lies and says the need for the drug is necessary like air or water. A person will do almost anything to protect their addiction, to obtain their drug. They are blindly willing to lose relationships, their home, car, savings, career, friends, hobbies, their values and ethics because they are driven to keep repeating the behavior and feel the high.

Codependents are addicts too. Its not about caring for another person, or even helping another person in a normal, balanced way. Its addiction where a person is willing to give up everything to help someone else, to hide the addiction in the family and pretend things are normal, to cover up the damage in the home and accept it even when lying in bed crying their eyes out. Its losing family, friends, hobbies, bending your principles. values, ethics because you feel its necessary to keep someone else in your life, or because you think your their only hope. Its a loss of self and then your own identity is somehow dependent and linked tightly with what another person does, says, thinks or feels. Codependents also often seem to think they can save a person with an addiction and disregard how people need medical/psychological help to overcome it most of the time. (Im not sure why in 2018 because its not that hard to educate yourself on the brain and how addiction works? )

Sadly, many family members are labeled as codependents just because they are family members. And also because a long time back the main concept was that people should step out the lives of the addict so they could hit rock bottom and then find recovery all on their own. In mainstream medicine from all Ive been told its not accepted as the approach to take any longer. While we cant become sickly codependents who surrender our lives for someone else all while thinking our love can save them - we can encourage treatment, help family obtain it, be a support and encouragement - all while continuing to hold firm in our boundaries, live our lives.

I don't see you as a codependent. Do you have a history of seeking out people who are hurt, sick, broken in some way? Needing to take care of them? Giving away too much of yourself and losing yourself?
I also don't see it in you because of the way you called out some of the posts and stood up for yourself. You seem to have a good sense of self, and personal boundaries.

And all in a months time with no experience in addiction! Those of us who didn't grow up in alcoholic homes, or have exposure to addiction.. when something happens we don't know what to do. It takes time to learn about addiction, learn about the behaviors addiction brings.

I remember sitting at home witnessing this awful behavior and thinking surely he is going to pull it together and just stop, He is capable and smart, and this makes no sense. So I waited and well it didn't happen. It took me a few months to seek help. I really just didn't understand. I came to online sites like this one, and then eventually made an appointment with an addiction doctor for therapy. I was so confused and had to reconcile what I saw with "the symptoms" of addiction. That is the one thing most of us here have in common. We've all been witness to the symptoms of addiction -in varying degrees of course.
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Old 03-09-2018, 10:29 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nitabug0107 View Post
Many people have questioned why I care so deeply for only been seeing him for a short amount of time. I don't know if I have a reasonable answer for that, at least not one that won't be judged harshly.
It doesn't really matter what we think of your reason. If you wish to share something that's good, if not, that's ok too.

Lots of people post here with different stories, different scenarios, different lengths of relationships, they may have just met, they may be considering divorce after 20 years they may be wondering if they are being abused.

With you, it's compact (time wise) . Jail, Dui's, ERs, parents worried, having to call the police to get him out of his truck, drinking in your house etc etc.

Your are getting advice and a lot of it and it's tough to take in. You weren't approached with the "starter" stuff because - wow - you needed advice and fast. Just know that it was almost all coming from a place of hope for you.

One other thing, people keep telling you to take care of yourself for this reason. Active Alcoholism is selfish. There is very very very little give and you will become depleted. If there is no one looking out for you (including you, you are looking out for the alcoholic) it's going to tap you out. It's ok at first but your strength will diminish. That is why everyone keeps telling you that.
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advice needed , alcoholic boyfriend , first time here , kicked out , relationship w/addict


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