Back after YEARS.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 485
Back after YEARS.
Hi All,
I haven't logged into this forum for a very long time. I won't even check because I can't go back and read my old posts - too painful. Not sure if anyone still here will remember me, but I first joined this forum in 2008/09. My then-husband was a verbally (sometimes physically) abusive binge-drinker. My self-esteem was at the lowest point possible. Here to give an update and also ask for some advice. A lot has happened since I've been gone.
I left in 2014 when I woke up to him having drank a bottle of whiskey and he put his hand around my neck. I grabbed my two boys, walked out the front door, and never went back. It was a TOUGH road. I had to let go of my worry for him and put my boys and myself first. I moved us into a 1-bedroom apartment, and then six months later we moved in with my parents. I commuted 4-5 hours a day for almost a year. It was hell. I then found a job and a place in a beautiful coastal community (one of the rare still affordable in California) and we started over, not knowing anyone. I've since made friends and have an actual support system after so many years of isolation. My kids go to a great school. I'm doing the best financially I've ever done. The ex moved near us and rarely drank for a long time.
Then back in June, the worst thing ever happened. My sister and I couldn't reach our parents for a couple of days and started to worry. Sent the police to do a welfare check and got a call - they were both deceased, my father had shot himself and then my mother. It was a complete shock, and we still don't know why.
It's been devastating, to say the least. But we're still going. I have the boys and I in grief group, I'm doing the best I can to be strong for them. I'm trying to live my life in a way that would make mom proud. I did my first half-marathon last weekend, something I never thought I could ever do. I'm also going to train to become a group facilitator so that I can start a murder-suicide survivors group. There are shockingly few resources available currently, and my ultimate goal is to find a way to help children who are going through what I'm going through. It's hard enough as an adult.
Anyway, to get to why I'm here - my ex did really well and didn't drink from June until the last few weeks. He is back to his "binge when he doesn't have the kids" lifestyle. My boys ADORE their father. When they're with him, they're on bike rides, at the park, playing soccer, etc. He has worked hard to build their relationship, but he still has yet to seek formal treatment. He just abstains for months and then falls off the wagon.
He's never (knock on wood) drank with the kids. He's not the kind who can hide it when he drinks. He doesn't have a couple of beers at home. He goes out to a bar, gets off his face, and then drinks for a couple more days at home and has his phone turned off. When he's "back", he's his usual positive self and ready to be a dad.
My kids just lost two HUGE pillars of stability in my parents. What do I do? Do I let my ex stay in their lives, seeing them when he's sober? Or do I say "Please stay away until you've proven you're in formal treatment or have been in rehab for 30 days." I don't 100% trust him, and my fear is he has them one day and DOES drink, and I never forgive myself. I also don't want to take my kids from their father, who they need and love. I could probably make things difficult for him in court custody-wise; I just don't want to do that unless I have to.
The most hurtful part is he promised me when my parents died that he'd never make me deal with him drinking again and would always be solid and there for us. He still doesn't see himself as an alcoholic.
Hope everyone is well. I apologize for the length of this post.
I haven't logged into this forum for a very long time. I won't even check because I can't go back and read my old posts - too painful. Not sure if anyone still here will remember me, but I first joined this forum in 2008/09. My then-husband was a verbally (sometimes physically) abusive binge-drinker. My self-esteem was at the lowest point possible. Here to give an update and also ask for some advice. A lot has happened since I've been gone.
I left in 2014 when I woke up to him having drank a bottle of whiskey and he put his hand around my neck. I grabbed my two boys, walked out the front door, and never went back. It was a TOUGH road. I had to let go of my worry for him and put my boys and myself first. I moved us into a 1-bedroom apartment, and then six months later we moved in with my parents. I commuted 4-5 hours a day for almost a year. It was hell. I then found a job and a place in a beautiful coastal community (one of the rare still affordable in California) and we started over, not knowing anyone. I've since made friends and have an actual support system after so many years of isolation. My kids go to a great school. I'm doing the best financially I've ever done. The ex moved near us and rarely drank for a long time.
Then back in June, the worst thing ever happened. My sister and I couldn't reach our parents for a couple of days and started to worry. Sent the police to do a welfare check and got a call - they were both deceased, my father had shot himself and then my mother. It was a complete shock, and we still don't know why.
It's been devastating, to say the least. But we're still going. I have the boys and I in grief group, I'm doing the best I can to be strong for them. I'm trying to live my life in a way that would make mom proud. I did my first half-marathon last weekend, something I never thought I could ever do. I'm also going to train to become a group facilitator so that I can start a murder-suicide survivors group. There are shockingly few resources available currently, and my ultimate goal is to find a way to help children who are going through what I'm going through. It's hard enough as an adult.
Anyway, to get to why I'm here - my ex did really well and didn't drink from June until the last few weeks. He is back to his "binge when he doesn't have the kids" lifestyle. My boys ADORE their father. When they're with him, they're on bike rides, at the park, playing soccer, etc. He has worked hard to build their relationship, but he still has yet to seek formal treatment. He just abstains for months and then falls off the wagon.
He's never (knock on wood) drank with the kids. He's not the kind who can hide it when he drinks. He doesn't have a couple of beers at home. He goes out to a bar, gets off his face, and then drinks for a couple more days at home and has his phone turned off. When he's "back", he's his usual positive self and ready to be a dad.
My kids just lost two HUGE pillars of stability in my parents. What do I do? Do I let my ex stay in their lives, seeing them when he's sober? Or do I say "Please stay away until you've proven you're in formal treatment or have been in rehab for 30 days." I don't 100% trust him, and my fear is he has them one day and DOES drink, and I never forgive myself. I also don't want to take my kids from their father, who they need and love. I could probably make things difficult for him in court custody-wise; I just don't want to do that unless I have to.
The most hurtful part is he promised me when my parents died that he'd never make me deal with him drinking again and would always be solid and there for us. He still doesn't see himself as an alcoholic.
Hope everyone is well. I apologize for the length of this post.
I am very sorry for everything you've gone through. That's really tough.
As far as your ex goes...it would depend on the court and what they say he's allowed to have regarding visitation. Do you have anything written legally?
As far as your ex goes...it would depend on the court and what they say he's allowed to have regarding visitation. Do you have anything written legally?
Oh Emmy. Of course I am remember you. I am so sorry for what has happened in your family. I am so glad you returned here for support.
I'm of a mind with Learning14. You have enough on your plate without having to take on the emotional labor of your XAH's addiction and how it affects his ability to parent. If you do not have a legal order in place, I hope you will consult an attorney as soon as possible. I know you don't want to do that "unless you have to," but my friend, when will things get bad enough for you? He's not in recovery and has no plans to be. He has broken promises at your most vulnerable moment. Those are not the marks of a good parent.
I'm of a mind with Learning14. You have enough on your plate without having to take on the emotional labor of your XAH's addiction and how it affects his ability to parent. If you do not have a legal order in place, I hope you will consult an attorney as soon as possible. I know you don't want to do that "unless you have to," but my friend, when will things get bad enough for you? He's not in recovery and has no plans to be. He has broken promises at your most vulnerable moment. Those are not the marks of a good parent.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 485
Our divorce is at the judgment stage (finally). I am at the point where I need to decide what I want to ask for. My attorney is literally drafting it this week. Does anyone know what is reasonable to ask for? I don't have any examples or proof of him ever drinking near the children. Could I ask that he has to test before pick up and drop off?
Emmy, of course I remember you quite well.
My heart just breaks for you, I am so very, very sorry about your parents. I cannot even imagine. What a wonderful thing you are doing by getting, and giving, grief support.
My XAH is a binge drinker on a pretty regular basis. My child does go to his house, her age is 12. My other child is old enough not to go, and does not. He has not drank around her for quite some time (to my knowledge). He does drink other times.
Would your XAH be willing to do something like SoberLink to give him some accountability, and you peace of mind?
Big hugs to you. I am sorry for what brings you back, but glad you are reaching out.
My heart just breaks for you, I am so very, very sorry about your parents. I cannot even imagine. What a wonderful thing you are doing by getting, and giving, grief support.
My XAH is a binge drinker on a pretty regular basis. My child does go to his house, her age is 12. My other child is old enough not to go, and does not. He has not drank around her for quite some time (to my knowledge). He does drink other times.
Would your XAH be willing to do something like SoberLink to give him some accountability, and you peace of mind?
Big hugs to you. I am sorry for what brings you back, but glad you are reaching out.
It is in my final decree XAH cannot drink around, have in his home, nor take children anywhere alcohol is consumed. I have the right to have him tested at my expense unless it's positive, then it becomes his expense. He may not call under the influence.
Thing is, I did not have any consequences put in, and this was my mistake. It made it almost useless, and turned my children in the alcohol police. Horrible.
In other words, what happens if he does do these things? I highly recommend Sober Link or supervised visitation if possible. I wheeled and dealed with my XAH to get him to agree to these things, my atty said he doubted a judge would have forced that. Ugh.
Thing is, I did not have any consequences put in, and this was my mistake. It made it almost useless, and turned my children in the alcohol police. Horrible.
In other words, what happens if he does do these things? I highly recommend Sober Link or supervised visitation if possible. I wheeled and dealed with my XAH to get him to agree to these things, my atty said he doubted a judge would have forced that. Ugh.
Our divorce is at the judgment stage (finally). I am at the point where I need to decide what I want to ask for. My attorney is literally drafting it this week. Does anyone know what is reasonable to ask for? I don't have any examples or proof of him ever drinking near the children. Could I ask that he has to test before pick up and drop off?
Always ask for WAY more than you think you will need.
Remember that judges/court deal with dates/timelines/examples. Not, "I hate him, he's ALWAYS late."
Give a timeline to your attorney to back up what you are asking for.
Something along those lines. ^^^
Provide your attorney with any written or names/dates of proof of his drinking.
Remember that judges/court deal with dates/timelines/examples. Not, "I hate him, he's ALWAYS late."
Give a timeline to your attorney to back up what you are asking for.
Example:
May 5, 2016 - XH came to my home drunk wanting to see the kids. I explained that we had not talked about him seeing the kids on this day. I also explained to him that I would not be releasing the kids into his custody and care while he was intoxicated.
September 12, 2016 - XH was supposed to pick up the kids at 12:00 pm since there was no school. He didn't show up. I received a text from his neighbor saying he was passed out in the driveway. I repeatedly tried to call him at 12:15 pm, 12:45 pm and 1:30 pm. I received no answer until he called me on September 15, 2016 at 9:00 am.
I would like to insure that our children are not put into harms way regarding their father's alcoholism. I would like to request alcohol testing at drop off and pick up.
May 5, 2016 - XH came to my home drunk wanting to see the kids. I explained that we had not talked about him seeing the kids on this day. I also explained to him that I would not be releasing the kids into his custody and care while he was intoxicated.
September 12, 2016 - XH was supposed to pick up the kids at 12:00 pm since there was no school. He didn't show up. I received a text from his neighbor saying he was passed out in the driveway. I repeatedly tried to call him at 12:15 pm, 12:45 pm and 1:30 pm. I received no answer until he called me on September 15, 2016 at 9:00 am.
I would like to insure that our children are not put into harms way regarding their father's alcoholism. I would like to request alcohol testing at drop off and pick up.
Provide your attorney with any written or names/dates of proof of his drinking.
I can't help, (I haven't gone through the divorce/support process) but I wanted to offer great big (((((Hugs))))).
I remember you well Emmy & I'm so, so sorry to read your update. You & your boys are in my thoughts & prayers.
I remember you well Emmy & I'm so, so sorry to read your update. You & your boys are in my thoughts & prayers.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 485
I have a very strong bit of ammunition to use. Back in May, a month before my parents died, he called me and made a drunken threat (not unlike him to do when he's black-out drunk) and showed up at my house. I called the police because I don't tolerate threats from him, even if he doesn't mean them. He was charged and his case just settled, he plead to a misdemeanor threat. There is a protective order in place pertaining to me only. He's not allowed to contact me outside of peaceful exchanges of the kids. So I think it may be very easy for me to ask the judge for these things. It just sucks that he didn't drink for 7 months and now we're back to this.
I agree with the other posters...GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING THROUGH THE COURT. That will be your only resource to keep your kids safe.
There's also an app called, "Our Family Wizard." You can get it court ordered, too. People seem to be on their best behavior when they know the judge/court can view their emails/texts.
There's also an app called, "Our Family Wizard." You can get it court ordered, too. People seem to be on their best behavior when they know the judge/court can view their emails/texts.
Hi there. I don't have any advice, I'm sorry. I wish I could give you a huge bear hug. Losing a parent is hard, losing two is even harder, and the way you lost yours is just agonizing! I'm sitting here in tears reading what you've been through these past few years. You are such an encouragement to those of us new to this journey! Look at all the horrible things you've been through, but you kept going and came out on the other side. I know you will get good, solid advice here regarding your little ones, and thank you for sharing. You have really been a bright light to me today.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 485
Thank you SO much, that is really good to hear. I feel at this point like I've been through the worst and I'm still here, and it's made me stronger. I just feel resolved as ever to give my boys the emotional support they need and a happy life. The part that sucks sometimes to be honest, and selfish, is being single. It would be nice to have a shoulder to lean on sometimes, but at the same time, the men who are interested in me are younger and looking for one thing, and I'd rather focus on being a good mom and person. If I'm meant to have that in my life, I will at some point. I just keep fighting every day to get up and keep moving. My boys keep me motivated - if I give up, they will too.
I remember you well, and have no advice on the x stuff...
and I am so sorry for your loss, I just can't imagine.
But I wanted to say...WHOLLY CRAP, you are AMAZING!
You are doing all the right things, you've been through hell, and you just keep moving forward - so inspiring! HUGS to you and welcome back!
and I am so sorry for your loss, I just can't imagine.
But I wanted to say...WHOLLY CRAP, you are AMAZING!
You are doing all the right things, you've been through hell, and you just keep moving forward - so inspiring! HUGS to you and welcome back!
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Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 182
Emmy - I am so sorry for what you have recently experienced. I'm also inspired by you and I completely agree that kids pick up on our attitudes. Keeping that in mind, I think it's best for my son to have a good relationship with his dad, and I have been ok with him seeing him as long as his dad is sober during visits and following other rules of our divorce decree. My son and I talk about appropriate behavior and he very clearly remembers the signs that my X is drinking. My X has very distinctive tells. Our decree allows me to suspend visitation if I believe that my X has been drinking. I don't need proof. I would love to have my husband do something like Soberlink, but that was going to be a battle that I couldn't financially afford. Additionally, my son is old enough to contact me if anything unusual happens and we've also discussed action plans for dealing with emergencies. I have a tracker on my son's phone as well. If I were you, I would go for Soberlink, but there are options too. Good luck to you and your boys.
Emmy....the following website may be of some help for you. It is arranged by state.....
www.womansdivorce.com
www.womansdivorce.com
Hi Emmy;
So good to hear from you again.
It sucks he decided to drink, or maybe it was one of those "strangely wrapped gifts"
which will allow you to get safeguards like Soberlink, etc. in place before divorce is finalized.
Same with the threat. It has given you a strong case.
I think you should get all the protections you can, and see how he does.
If he gets sober again for a stretch, you can loosen up,
but I'd start tough and get it sealed by the court.
He was a horror when full-blown as I recall. . .
He also was pretty good at intimidating you with his anger.
Well too bad for him--this is about protecting your kids.
I'm so sorry you've had to endure so much pain,
but you are strong and a great role model for your boys.
So good to hear from you again.
It sucks he decided to drink, or maybe it was one of those "strangely wrapped gifts"
which will allow you to get safeguards like Soberlink, etc. in place before divorce is finalized.
Same with the threat. It has given you a strong case.
I think you should get all the protections you can, and see how he does.
If he gets sober again for a stretch, you can loosen up,
but I'd start tough and get it sealed by the court.
He was a horror when full-blown as I recall. . .
He also was pretty good at intimidating you with his anger.
Well too bad for him--this is about protecting your kids.
I'm so sorry you've had to endure so much pain,
but you are strong and a great role model for your boys.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
SoberLink monitoring might be helpful for you. The arrangement I have with my ex is that he has to provide a clean test 30 min before a visit is scheduled to start, every 2 hours after the first test, and 30 min after the visit ends. He argued for a 20-minute retest window in the event of "technical problems", and I agreed.
The key is having a bright-line distinction between a "pass" and a "fail" with explicit consequences for the "fail". Anything other than a .00 result within the 20 min window is a "fail" (e.g. a clean test submitted 3 minutes later than the window, or a .01 BAC has the same consequences as being blind drunk). In the event of a "fail", we revert to supervised visits only (he is responsible for arranging supervision), with the same monitoring protocol in place, until he has managed ten weeks of compliance, then move forward to unsupervised but still SoberLink monitored visits. Every "fail" resets the clock back to supervised visits again.
It sounds complicated but it's actually simpler than having to be involved in "managing" his drinking or making judgment calls about how late a test is or whether .03 BAC is too much.
The key is having a bright-line distinction between a "pass" and a "fail" with explicit consequences for the "fail". Anything other than a .00 result within the 20 min window is a "fail" (e.g. a clean test submitted 3 minutes later than the window, or a .01 BAC has the same consequences as being blind drunk). In the event of a "fail", we revert to supervised visits only (he is responsible for arranging supervision), with the same monitoring protocol in place, until he has managed ten weeks of compliance, then move forward to unsupervised but still SoberLink monitored visits. Every "fail" resets the clock back to supervised visits again.
It sounds complicated but it's actually simpler than having to be involved in "managing" his drinking or making judgment calls about how late a test is or whether .03 BAC is too much.
I remember you very well, Emmy, and I am so very sorry about this tragic loss for your family!! You have my deepest sympathies.
I have no advice about your current situation with your ex, but I am sending hugs and many prayers!
I have no advice about your current situation with your ex, but I am sending hugs and many prayers!
SoberLink monitoring might be helpful for you. The arrangement I have with my ex is that he has to provide a clean test 30 min before a visit is scheduled to start, every 2 hours after the first test, and 30 min after the visit ends. He argued for a 20-minute retest window in the event of "technical problems", and I agreed.
The key is having a bright-line distinction between a "pass" and a "fail" with explicit consequences for the "fail". Anything other than a .00 result within the 20 min window is a "fail" (e.g. a clean test submitted 3 minutes later than the window, or a .01 BAC has the same consequences as being blind drunk). In the event of a "fail", we revert to supervised visits only (he is responsible for arranging supervision), with the same monitoring protocol in place, until he has managed ten weeks of compliance, then move forward to unsupervised but still SoberLink monitored visits. Every "fail" resets the clock back to supervised visits again.
It sounds complicated but it's actually simpler than having to be involved in "managing" his drinking or making judgment calls about how late a test is or whether .03 BAC is too much.
The key is having a bright-line distinction between a "pass" and a "fail" with explicit consequences for the "fail". Anything other than a .00 result within the 20 min window is a "fail" (e.g. a clean test submitted 3 minutes later than the window, or a .01 BAC has the same consequences as being blind drunk). In the event of a "fail", we revert to supervised visits only (he is responsible for arranging supervision), with the same monitoring protocol in place, until he has managed ten weeks of compliance, then move forward to unsupervised but still SoberLink monitored visits. Every "fail" resets the clock back to supervised visits again.
It sounds complicated but it's actually simpler than having to be involved in "managing" his drinking or making judgment calls about how late a test is or whether .03 BAC is too much.
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