To tell the truth?
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 497
Originally Posted by 3Dognite 
I really appreciate everyone's response to my post. I am not one who shares personal happenings with others. I really needed each of you so, Thank You! I agree with the majority of you that If I desire honesty from my Husband, I must be honest as well. And, that is what I am most comfortable with. I do believe that my Husband is keeping this from me because he is afraid of causing me more harm. I'm waiting on the right time to have this discussion with him, hopefully this weekend.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 500
Just chiming in here a little late, but aren't you supposed to be taking care of yourself? By that I mean you need to decide for you what you can and cannot live with if you need to know then thats the answer. How it affects him by you asking shouldn't be your concern thats what his recovery is for. Me personally I would have to ask because the small piece of information that I think I know would cloud every single interaction I would have. Just keep taking care of yourself however that looks.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
It sounds like you're stuck between the torment of not-knowing (who did he cheat with, why, how long ago, and so on) and the torment of knowing (details can be worse than no details). I don't think there is any one right thing to do in this situation, just wanted to offer my sympathy.
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: PRINCETON, TX
Posts: 113
I try not to chime in on personal relationship matters, but the only facts that have been mentioned in your post is you saw a "list" stating "I cheated on my wife". Since you found that, and if I had found that and been wondering what to do, I would tell him that you found the list and ask him to explain that entry. You don't mention in your post if there was any other "details" other than what you put in the post that "I cheated on my wife". At this juncture what that actually means is unknown. If you want this to be a part of the past that you are moving away from it would seem appropriate to tell him that you found it in your chores of straightening up and you are of course desirous of his explanation. You do have a right to the truth now that some evidence has arrived. Not asking will eat at you incessantly. Forgiveness is healing, but the offender should be confronted and an explanation is required. To try to "what if" his response is pointless and only adds to worry and frustration. An honest discussion I think you will find will be healing, especially if your husband is sincere in improving his life and your marriage. Good luck, just my take.
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: East Coast
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
have you considered that maybe he knew it was there and left it for you to find anyway? most people don't keep pages or print outs of their step work or other self-help efforts lying around on the floor of their office.
In hindsight, it was just another example of my sister's very passive way of addressing issues instead of taking responsibility for her own actions.
My take - if he wasn't careful enough to destroy that note, then he should accept the consequences of leaving it there for you to find. It's like leaving a beaker of hydrochloric acid in the home office - if you live with other people you are just asking for trouble if you don't get rid of it. If he immediately starts blaming you for going through his stuff, as opposed to being immediately apologetic for the much bigger offense, you have information that indicates how sincere he is with his recovery.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
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The problem is it's impossible to "unsee" it. Denial and rationalization work in some instances but not this. Since you didn't go snooping in his papers you have a right to explain your concerns and get answers.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 229
Originally Posted by tomsteve
except when to do so would injure them or others:
Usually, however, other people are involved. Therefore, we are not to be the hasty and foolish martyr who would needlessly sacrifice others to save himself from the alcoholic pit.
Whatever the situation, we usually have to do something about it. If we are sure our wife does not know, should we tell her? Not always, we think. If she knows in a general way that we have been wild, should we tell her in detail? Undoubtedly we should admit our fault. She may insist on knowing all the particulars. She will want to know who the woman is and where she is. We feel we ought to say to her that we have no right to involve another person. We are sorry for what we have done and, God willing, it shall not be repeated. More than that we cannot do; we have no right to go further. Though there may be justifiable exceptions, and though we wish to lay down no rule of any sort, we have often found this the best course to take.
Yes, there is a long period of reconstruction ahead. We must take the lead. A remorseful mumbling that we are sorry won't fill the bill at all. We ought to sit down with the family and frankly analyze the past as we now see it, being very careful not to criticize them. Their defects may be glaring, but the chances are that our own actions are partly responsible. So we clean house with the family, asking each morning in meditation that our Creator show us the way of patience, tolerance, kindliness and love.
Usually, however, other people are involved. Therefore, we are not to be the hasty and foolish martyr who would needlessly sacrifice others to save himself from the alcoholic pit.
Whatever the situation, we usually have to do something about it. If we are sure our wife does not know, should we tell her? Not always, we think. If she knows in a general way that we have been wild, should we tell her in detail? Undoubtedly we should admit our fault. She may insist on knowing all the particulars. She will want to know who the woman is and where she is. We feel we ought to say to her that we have no right to involve another person. We are sorry for what we have done and, God willing, it shall not be repeated. More than that we cannot do; we have no right to go further. Though there may be justifiable exceptions, and though we wish to lay down no rule of any sort, we have often found this the best course to take.
Yes, there is a long period of reconstruction ahead. We must take the lead. A remorseful mumbling that we are sorry won't fill the bill at all. We ought to sit down with the family and frankly analyze the past as we now see it, being very careful not to criticize them. Their defects may be glaring, but the chances are that our own actions are partly responsible. So we clean house with the family, asking each morning in meditation that our Creator show us the way of patience, tolerance, kindliness and love.
Hiding this type of information in the mistaken belief it does not benefit anyone puts the betrayed spouse in a position where they do not have all the information to make an informed decision about their own futures which is totally unreasonable. In fact, at the expense of getting brickbats here, it is a very selfish decision.
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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Originally Posted by Givenup2018
Hiding this type of information in the mistaken belief it does not benefit anyone puts the betrayed spouse in a position where they do not have all the information to make an informed decision about their own futures which is totally unreasonable. In fact, at the expense of getting brickbats here, it is a very selfish decision.
The BB doesn't get to make that decision or "allow" a decision, that decision belongs to the person holding the information.
The only person spared when that information is withheld is the alcoholic imo.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
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Originally Posted by Spence7471
trailmix,
The BB does not distinguish the severity of one act versus another... it just requires that you share your secrets with someone... and where making amends would cause further pain it allows one to not make a direct amend. This is a step that is often done with the guidance of the sponsor to help ensure that no further pain is caused to others because of the disease.
The thing about the BB is that it is about the addict... not about those that have been wronged by them... making amends is not about making up to the person that was wronged.. it is about the addict coming clean about what they have done so the addict can move beyond the past and become a better person. Silent amends are often made in situations where the offense was so damaging that coming clean with it to the offended party will not help the person who was wronged and may cause additional pain. So in the case of adultery, a silent amend could be made where the addict promises to be loyal to their partner and to not place themselves in a position that would result in them to stray again.
The BB does not distinguish the severity of one act versus another... it just requires that you share your secrets with someone... and where making amends would cause further pain it allows one to not make a direct amend. This is a step that is often done with the guidance of the sponsor to help ensure that no further pain is caused to others because of the disease.
The thing about the BB is that it is about the addict... not about those that have been wronged by them... making amends is not about making up to the person that was wronged.. it is about the addict coming clean about what they have done so the addict can move beyond the past and become a better person. Silent amends are often made in situations where the offense was so damaging that coming clean with it to the offended party will not help the person who was wronged and may cause additional pain. So in the case of adultery, a silent amend could be made where the addict promises to be loyal to their partner and to not place themselves in a position that would result in them to stray again.
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Originally Posted by Givenup2018
...
Hiding this type of information in the mistaken belief it does not benefit anyone puts the betrayed spouse in a position where they do not have all the information to make an informed decision about their own futures which is totally unreasonable. In fact, at the expense of getting brickbats here, it is a very selfish decision.
Hiding this type of information in the mistaken belief it does not benefit anyone puts the betrayed spouse in a position where they do not have all the information to make an informed decision about their own futures which is totally unreasonable. In fact, at the expense of getting brickbats here, it is a very selfish decision.
Why? Some may ask. Just as stated above, I had a right to be fully informed so that I could make my own decision on whether or not I should proceed with the marriage. If I were not told, then I am being treated like a child who cannot handle adult situations, and someone else is controlling my life by keeping me in the dark. That is *profoundly* unacceptable to me.
That said, I do believe that marriages can come back even stronger from infidelity, but it requires rigorous honesty, humility, and accountability on the part of each member of the couple with guidance from a counselor.
What disturbs me most about what I am assuming is a quoted passage from the Big Book is that it assumes the spouse is just going to go along with whatever the recovering alcoholic decides to do moving forward....and a strong marriage is a partnership between two people who make decisions together. That is unfortunate to read.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 229
Originally Posted by Seren
What disturbs me most about what I am assuming is a quoted passage from the Big Book is that it assumes the spouse is just going to go along with whatever the recovering alcoholic decides to do moving forward....and a strong marriage is a partnership between two people who make decisions together. That is unfortunate to read.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 219
Originally Posted by Givenup2018
This is a very unfair approach to the betrayed partner who has a right to know exactly what they are dealing with. For example, these things often have a way of coming out through other sources, imagine the betrayed partner works with the RA for years on building the relationship up and then finds this out accidentally (say). All the years of trust gone in a flash. That is why honesty is the best policy, the betrayed partner then has the opportunity to do what is right for him or her under the circumstances. To me 'silent amends' is really a cop out, esp when it is the A who is making the decision to be forthright or not. The betrayed partner has no say in what effectively is a life changing scenario in their own lives. The partner that has caused them so much pain, still gets to call the shots? Something wrong with this picture.
The BB is not concerned about the people that were or were not offended by the actions of the addict. It is about the addict's journey; and as such, they are in the driver's seat with regards to that.
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 199
Originally Posted by NYCDoglvr
The problem is it's impossible to "unsee" it. Denial and rationalization work in some instances but not this. Since you didn't go snooping in his papers you have a right to explain your concerns and get answers.
You did nothing wrong by reading it...how were you to know that clutter and scraps of paper would have "confessions" written on them? You wouldn't.
I would talk to him straight out.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
. In fact, at the expense of getting brickbats here, it is a very selfish decision.
opinions vary and youre entitled to yours.
i left a LOT of wreckage in my path. hurt a lot of people. i dont want to do that any more. if making amends could mean injuring people more, ill leave it between me and God.
opinions vary and youre entitled to yours.
i left a LOT of wreckage in my path. hurt a lot of people. i dont want to do that any more. if making amends could mean injuring people more, ill leave it between me and God.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
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Originally Posted by Seren
What disturbs me most about what I am assuming is a quoted passage from the Big Book is that it assumes the spouse is just going to go along with whatever the recovering alcoholic decides to do moving forward....and a strong marriage is a partnership between two people who make decisions together. That is unfortunate to read.
i suggest "the family afterwards" along with "into action."
https://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/alcoholics-anonymous
imo, making assumptions on just a few paragraphs...welp
i think theres been a CRAPTON of assumptions of al anon here in this forum off of one single meeting attended.
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I think a spouse who has been cheated on has a right to know.. not just because of the trust issue.. (though that is HUGE).... but also because of the physical health point of view. I know a woman who contracted very serious, sometimes fatal disease, due to her husband's philandering... Spouses have a right to know if their health has been jeopardized due to someone else poor morals.
I think more often times than not, withholding the truth is done for selfish reasons, under the guise of doing less harm.
I think more often times than not, withholding the truth is done for selfish reasons, under the guise of doing less harm.
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Oh, tomsteve...I am not at all judging AA or the Big Book. I think it is a fine program that has helped many people, even though it is not for everyone.
It would seem to me that you are making assumptions about my attitude toward the BB and AA as a whole.
I said that what was quoted was an unfortunate passage, and I stand by that as someone whose spouse had been unfaithful considering the impact such a statement would have on the spouse.
It would seem to me that you are making assumptions about my attitude toward the BB and AA as a whole.
I said that what was quoted was an unfortunate passage, and I stand by that as someone whose spouse had been unfaithful considering the impact such a statement would have on the spouse.
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Originally Posted by tomsteve
i wasnt going to post the whole chapter, but you can read more here:
i suggest "the family afterwards" along with "into action."
https://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/alcoholics-anonymous
imo, making assumptions on just a few paragraphs...welp
i think theres been a CRAPTON of assumptions of al anon here in this forum off of one single meeting attended.
i suggest "the family afterwards" along with "into action."
https://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/alcoholics-anonymous
imo, making assumptions on just a few paragraphs...welp
i think theres been a CRAPTON of assumptions of al anon here in this forum off of one single meeting attended.
When making amends you are using your judgement and the judgement (one would hope) of a few trusted people.
You can't very well go to your spouse or partner and say, soooooo if I confess my infidelity would that be more hurtful or would you like that information so that you can decide how you want to proceed in this relationship?
I guess these opinions could be food for thought?
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