Nothing surprises me anymore
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Nothing surprises me anymore
Its really quite spectacular nothing surprises me anymore I don't know if thats sad, healthy or just acceptance. Whenever I have a moment of uncertainty the universe keeps providing me with information to keep me moving forward. The lies and deception of my AH keep being uncovered some by me and some shared with me is truly astonishing. How someone can live so many lies and try to keep up so many different appearances is exhausting to think about. I personally couldn't do it. Live with the deception, paranoia and sheer energy it must take to keep all those balls in the air, and thats just what it does to the liar. Thats nothing compared to the damage he has done to the people involved with him. The iceberg theory visual which I have included has helped me immensely. I myself had a handful of things under the water line a couple of years ago and now I'm down to 1 but I'm working on it, my AH could check off every single topic under the waterline but is unwilling to do so. My suspicion is if he ever did there would be a whole other iceberg behind that one. To be able to lie straight to your loved ones face again and again is a sickness that comes from deep within. To lie to children counting on you is still so hard for me to wrap my brain around. To consistently live a lie is a lost soul. I can walk away knowing I have done the work, knowing I live authentically even if that means I change my mind and am confused by my own emotions. I know the work thats left isn't meant for me and for that I am so grateful.
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That's one of the toughest things to come to terms with, but is all part of the grand acceptance we all seek. Everytime I try and wrap my mind around all the things xabf has done and the lies he told, the hurt he imposed on himself and me and other loves ones, I come up empty. My therapist says, quit trying to use rationale to understand the irrational. Logic to assume the illogical. My on moral compass to assume another's. To assume that what you would do is what others would do. Not even with just the addict, but really any toxic relationship. I have a brother that constantly tests boundaries by asking for things. Money, my car, apartment, etc. I constantly find myself saying "I just can't believe he isn't embarrassed". Or with my ex I wonder and just can't believe he can lie to my face over and over and then expect me to be okay with things after I discover the lies. Then I have to take a step back and say, that is who they are. This is who I am. And just because they are one way, doesn't mean I need to be a part of that. Like you, things just stopped surprising me. So much so that I stopped physically even reacting to the betrayals. I didn't get sad or cry anymore when I would find out a new piece of information that hurt me. I just knew, I was all tapped out. There was truly nothing he could confess, no stone I could lift, that would illicit anything any longer from me. Anything was possible.
I do know how hard it is though when we love and are true to another who cannot give it back to us. We see they have the ability because we've seen glimpses of love in their heart and we've seen glimpses of a soul, so it can make it even harder to digest that this same person has the ability to hurt us so badly. Something we could never imagine doing to them. But once I accepted and learned that "hurt people hurt people" and that the damage he was doing to his own life paled into comparison in what he was doing to mine, I let go of taking it personally. I knew that a sick person was incapable of loving another if he had no ounce of love for himself. I don't absolve him of the pain he caused me, but I also don't expect anything from someone who expects nothing of himself.
I am currently reading (or listening to) a book called The Betrayal Bond by Patrick Carnes: Breaking Free of Exploitive Relationships. It speaks a lot to the trauma imposed by toxic people. How we heal and recover. Best wishes to you as you go through this.
I do know how hard it is though when we love and are true to another who cannot give it back to us. We see they have the ability because we've seen glimpses of love in their heart and we've seen glimpses of a soul, so it can make it even harder to digest that this same person has the ability to hurt us so badly. Something we could never imagine doing to them. But once I accepted and learned that "hurt people hurt people" and that the damage he was doing to his own life paled into comparison in what he was doing to mine, I let go of taking it personally. I knew that a sick person was incapable of loving another if he had no ounce of love for himself. I don't absolve him of the pain he caused me, but I also don't expect anything from someone who expects nothing of himself.
I am currently reading (or listening to) a book called The Betrayal Bond by Patrick Carnes: Breaking Free of Exploitive Relationships. It speaks a lot to the trauma imposed by toxic people. How we heal and recover. Best wishes to you as you go through this.
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How someone can live so many lies and try to keep up so many different appearances is exhausting to think about.
My exah hated anyone lying to him or if he perceived anyone had even if they hadn't. However his whole life was built on lie upon lie. Even in the face of overwhelming irrefutable evidence he had lied he would deny it and dig a deeper hole. Ridiculous things like saying he was in hospital overnight the day before when I had seen him and spoken with him and he was at home, telling me and his sons he has terminal cancer when he doesn't. His rehab phoned me to disabuse me of that. He lied about stuff that there was no need to lie about. He still does. And do you know? It wasn't his drinking that killed our relationship, it was the lies. I can be left a bit stunned now and then but nothing actually surprises me anymore either.
My exah hated anyone lying to him or if he perceived anyone had even if they hadn't. However his whole life was built on lie upon lie. Even in the face of overwhelming irrefutable evidence he had lied he would deny it and dig a deeper hole. Ridiculous things like saying he was in hospital overnight the day before when I had seen him and spoken with him and he was at home, telling me and his sons he has terminal cancer when he doesn't. His rehab phoned me to disabuse me of that. He lied about stuff that there was no need to lie about. He still does. And do you know? It wasn't his drinking that killed our relationship, it was the lies. I can be left a bit stunned now and then but nothing actually surprises me anymore either.
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It truly baffles me. I understand the compulsion to physically drink far more than I comprehend willful, purposeful deceit like this. At least *I* consider it purposeful - almost impossible not to take such things personally.
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In my relationship I came to understand that her entire life was a lie to other people. Very few (like 2) people knew the truth of her life. So depending on who she was interacting with she told them different lies about herself. She constantly lied about who she was, where she was, & what she did.
She also had to lie constantly to her daughter regarding where she was & what she was doing.
She didn't have to lie to me because I knew the truth. But yet she lied about other things. Silly things she didn't need to lie about. At times she would forget & use the same lie repeatedly.
Once I became aware of her lying it became totally sickening for me. It was extremely difficult to ever know the truth of anything with her. It was very confusing to never know even with small meaningless things if it was truth or lies.
Unlike Dawnrising originator of this thread, I never got to a point where there were no more new surprises. The surprises never stopped.
She also had to lie constantly to her daughter regarding where she was & what she was doing.
She didn't have to lie to me because I knew the truth. But yet she lied about other things. Silly things she didn't need to lie about. At times she would forget & use the same lie repeatedly.
Once I became aware of her lying it became totally sickening for me. It was extremely difficult to ever know the truth of anything with her. It was very confusing to never know even with small meaningless things if it was truth or lies.
Unlike Dawnrising originator of this thread, I never got to a point where there were no more new surprises. The surprises never stopped.
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AW likes to exaggerate things, many things, even things that relate to me that don't directly affect her.
Case in point: Several year ago I was on a big project at work - involved MANY many hours, seven days a week. There were about 4 occasions within those 9 months where I came home close to midnight. She was telling people: "Oh, COD has been working past midnight every week, it's taking a toll on him." Working a lot of hours was taking a toll, along with the increased stress, but to exaggerate that was something I never understood. I asked her several times about it, and she could never give me a direct answer.
She had a job for a time where she would have to go in early. Since she a procrastinator, she got up right at the last minute (5:15) and hurried to work. This happened maybe once a month. Somehow she turned it into getting up at 4:15 to get to work.....
Everything is always tougher for her than anyone else on this earth.
Case in point: Several year ago I was on a big project at work - involved MANY many hours, seven days a week. There were about 4 occasions within those 9 months where I came home close to midnight. She was telling people: "Oh, COD has been working past midnight every week, it's taking a toll on him." Working a lot of hours was taking a toll, along with the increased stress, but to exaggerate that was something I never understood. I asked her several times about it, and she could never give me a direct answer.
She had a job for a time where she would have to go in early. Since she a procrastinator, she got up right at the last minute (5:15) and hurried to work. This happened maybe once a month. Somehow she turned it into getting up at 4:15 to get to work.....
Everything is always tougher for her than anyone else on this earth.
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XABF set me up right from the start. He said: I am an honest person and I will never lie to you. I believed him.
So whenever things didn’t make sense, when he gaslighted me, when he denied drinking, quacked, etc etc I always believed him because, you know, HE SAID HE WOULD NEVER LIE.
One day when he was allegedly “not drinking,” I believed him at first...but then...my gut kept screaming the truth to me. I could see, smell, and hear his drunkenness. He was lying and I knew it. I decided to love myself, to trust myself, and to listen to my gut.
I said, in a very calm voice, in a confident voice, You are lying. I know the truth. I know you’ve been drinking. You do not fool me one bit. You are a liar. I grabbed my purse and I left the house. I waited 12 hours for a text or call from him. An apology. Something. Anything...Nothing.
So I sent him a text: I can’t handle your drinking any more. Gather your things and get out. And I took control of my life. And I am so glad I did.
I am now learning to be honest with myself, and to trust myself, and to believe myself, because, you know, I am not a liar!!
So whenever things didn’t make sense, when he gaslighted me, when he denied drinking, quacked, etc etc I always believed him because, you know, HE SAID HE WOULD NEVER LIE.
One day when he was allegedly “not drinking,” I believed him at first...but then...my gut kept screaming the truth to me. I could see, smell, and hear his drunkenness. He was lying and I knew it. I decided to love myself, to trust myself, and to listen to my gut.
I said, in a very calm voice, in a confident voice, You are lying. I know the truth. I know you’ve been drinking. You do not fool me one bit. You are a liar. I grabbed my purse and I left the house. I waited 12 hours for a text or call from him. An apology. Something. Anything...Nothing.
So I sent him a text: I can’t handle your drinking any more. Gather your things and get out. And I took control of my life. And I am so glad I did.
I am now learning to be honest with myself, and to trust myself, and to believe myself, because, you know, I am not a liar!!
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Originally Posted by Ladybird579 
telling me and his sons he has terminal cancer when he doesn't.
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This actually seems more common than I once thought. My XAH also seems to catch a lot of fake cancers. In my case the fake cancers seem to arise when he decides to try to suck me back in. I'm quite proud of myself because it has never worked and never, ever will!
My exah does the same. If he thinks I've gone quiet for a few months he will conjure up an illness to try and get back in contact with me and to try and suck me in. He told his rehab I was taking care of him over Christmas and we were back together. They phoned me and found out that no I wasn't and no we weren't.
My exah does the same. If he thinks I've gone quiet for a few months he will conjure up an illness to try and get back in contact with me and to try and suck me in. He told his rehab I was taking care of him over Christmas and we were back together. They phoned me and found out that no I wasn't and no we weren't.
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I'll be honest - I've gone looking for threads in the other forums that relate to this topic - trying to understand what goes through the mind of a person while they are aware that they are lying through their teeth. I understand lying - I do NOT understand how one "pretends" it's a truth & then acts defensive & attacked when found out.
It's frustrating to find a lot of threads that addicts have shared about lying to themselves, but that's not at all the same thing - sometimes denial CAN allow you to believe you ARE being honest to yourself when you lie internally like that.
But when you're looking in the face of someone you love & You KNOW you are spewing straight lies..... you know you have no cancer diagnosis, you know you weren't at "x-y-z" with "a-b-c"... how does someone justify it in their mind... especially enough to perpetuate the same cycle over & over again?
See - I don't think they do. I believe they are fully aware of their dishonesty & then use that to fuel their self-hatred & shame spirals - like a self fulfilling prophecy that just keeps feeding back into itself... but that's just me making assumptions. This topic drives me batty.
It's frustrating to find a lot of threads that addicts have shared about lying to themselves, but that's not at all the same thing - sometimes denial CAN allow you to believe you ARE being honest to yourself when you lie internally like that.
But when you're looking in the face of someone you love & You KNOW you are spewing straight lies..... you know you have no cancer diagnosis, you know you weren't at "x-y-z" with "a-b-c"... how does someone justify it in their mind... especially enough to perpetuate the same cycle over & over again?
See - I don't think they do. I believe they are fully aware of their dishonesty & then use that to fuel their self-hatred & shame spirals - like a self fulfilling prophecy that just keeps feeding back into itself... but that's just me making assumptions. This topic drives me batty.
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Totally agree with Fire ^^ and all these comments. Sometimes the lies are so convincing that you are gaslit into believing that maybe something is wrong with you. Even in his hospital bed he tried to tell me through his tears that the roll of condoms were from his meeting that passed them out along with clean needles. At an AA meeting? And if so, why would you take any much less 10 for when the rare times we did have sex we used other forms of protection? Still breaks my heart. I wish he would have just said, "hey you stopped wanting to sleep with me so I wanted to find sex somewhere else but at least be safe". I'd have had more respect for that. The lying is heartbreaking. The way they believe it is mind-boggling.
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Yes they know the truth & yes they know when they are lying
It becomes easy to lie to anyone when you lie constantly & for a long period of time. Lying becomes their norm. Lying is part of life.
They lie because they have to for self preservation. That self preservation is more important than the person (whoever that is) they are lying too. They cant tell you the truth - the truth is ugly. They know you wont accept the truth.
I also think lying feeds some need in them for power & control over others.
Just based on my experience
It becomes easy to lie to anyone when you lie constantly & for a long period of time. Lying becomes their norm. Lying is part of life.
They lie because they have to for self preservation. That self preservation is more important than the person (whoever that is) they are lying too. They cant tell you the truth - the truth is ugly. They know you wont accept the truth.
I also think lying feeds some need in them for power & control over others.
Just based on my experience
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All good points, but this:
Wow, yes. This is a perspective I've never considered but it really rings true for me.
Originally Posted by HardLessons
I also think lying feeds some need in them for power & control over others.
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Originally Posted by FireSprite
All good points, but this:
Wow, yes. This is a perspective I've never considered but it really rings true for me.
Wow, yes. This is a perspective I've never considered but it really rings true for me.
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Here are some of my thoughts on alcoholic lying.
I believe that it starts off as a necessary tool for them to protect their drinking....
to keep from getting caught or to provide cover. That makes sense from their perspective.
But, then, as their disease progresses...and effects the brain and body more....other things get added to the mix...
I think we forget how much they do not remember!! a night of heavy drinking can wipe out a whole lot of memory (black out)....
Because they can't remember a lot of what we can....they resort to confabulation.
Confabulation is what certain stroke victims and young children do...to "fill in the missing blanks".....This is expected of stroke victims and developing children, of course. It is how they cope...
It becomes a way of coping for the advancing alcoholic, also.
This is my formula.....
Avoiding detection + memory loss + Confabulation = lies
I believe that it starts off as a necessary tool for them to protect their drinking....
to keep from getting caught or to provide cover. That makes sense from their perspective.
But, then, as their disease progresses...and effects the brain and body more....other things get added to the mix...
I think we forget how much they do not remember!! a night of heavy drinking can wipe out a whole lot of memory (black out)....
Because they can't remember a lot of what we can....they resort to confabulation.
Confabulation is what certain stroke victims and young children do...to "fill in the missing blanks".....This is expected of stroke victims and developing children, of course. It is how they cope...
It becomes a way of coping for the advancing alcoholic, also.
This is my formula.....
Avoiding detection + memory loss + Confabulation = lies
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I get that & agree for "small stuff" dandy but cancer diagnosis & stuff on that level?
I think it's a mixed bag that's maybe slightly different for every person. For my personal situation, lies are a family legacy of my husband's & the habit isn't tied to addiction solely. For him, a strong combination of shame/control with a healthy diet of confabulation really strikes a chord of TRUTH.
The control piece was the part of the equation I was missing before - that part I couldn't quite put my finger on no matter how I changed the lens in how I tried to view it. For the LIFE of me, I couldn't figure out what he was getting out of it to make it worth doing. But in our case, I can see where it did provide him the Illusion of Control. His mindset has created this constant internal dynamic where he judges himself as "less-than" me in so many ways (untrue) but his lies let him create a whole pretend world where he stays in control - ESPECIALLY because he compartmentalized even his lies away from one another. Having a bad day here? No worries - just step into this side of your world & feel like a King again for a while.
I think it's a mixed bag that's maybe slightly different for every person. For my personal situation, lies are a family legacy of my husband's & the habit isn't tied to addiction solely. For him, a strong combination of shame/control with a healthy diet of confabulation really strikes a chord of TRUTH.
The control piece was the part of the equation I was missing before - that part I couldn't quite put my finger on no matter how I changed the lens in how I tried to view it. For the LIFE of me, I couldn't figure out what he was getting out of it to make it worth doing. But in our case, I can see where it did provide him the Illusion of Control. His mindset has created this constant internal dynamic where he judges himself as "less-than" me in so many ways (untrue) but his lies let him create a whole pretend world where he stays in control - ESPECIALLY because he compartmentalized even his lies away from one another. Having a bad day here? No worries - just step into this side of your world & feel like a King again for a while.
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His mindset has created this constant internal dynamic where he judges himself as "less-than" me in so many ways (untrue) but his lies let him create a whole pretend world where he stays in control - ESPECIALLY because he compartmentalized even his lies away from one another. Having a bad day here? No worries - just step into this side of your world & feel like a King again for a while.
All of this ^
All of this ^
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Hi all this is so true.. I keep trying to find just a little sun shine and pow right in the kisser.. Eddie lee is in a down swing with anger and I think he is afraid of people and places around him.. I don't know. just want my hubby back for a hour with his laughter.. hugs and prayers all ardy..
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firesprite.....I am only talking about the kinds of lies that seem common to alcoholics....and, that can include "small stuff'. I wasn't commenting on all lying. After all, lots of people lie who have never had a drink...and for all kinds of motivations...
"Why are your pants wet?" "The cat peed on my croth while I was sleeping on the couch".....
"Why are your pants wet?" "The cat peed on my croth while I was sleeping on the couch".....
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