dandylion

phoenix....what he did was take advantage of your vulnerabilities for his own use.....
A good...non- messed up man might have "protected" you...but would not have treated you poorly, afterward.....

Question---what kind of therapist....and how often...?
It appears that these issues of abuse have been goin on with you for a very long time....
You mention that you were on an abuse forum...but, I want to ask...have you ever been in an abuse support group...frequent meetings with face to face humans who are working on those same issues....
even if you are seeing a therapist...you can still use this...in fact, really need the additional support.....
You can get it by calling and talking to your local DV organization....
Is there a reason that you wouldn't do that....?

SparkleKitty

Phoenix

No one should be anyone else’s “whole world”.

No one should have three different explanations for contracting on sexually-transmitted disease.

No one should put their own gratification before someone else’s fear and discomfort.

You have been manipulated. Please release yourself from these torturous thoughts that you have misinterpreted anything. You haven’t.

dandylion

phoenix.....by the way.....I know you have been on here for a while....so, have you read "Why does He Do That?"......It is frequently recommended on this forum....for those who have been in abusive relationships.....
I think it might help you to get a different perspective....
You can get a used copy on amazon.com or from the local library......

You must get more help/support than you have been getting.....from anywhere that you can get it....

to me, your posts scream "low self esteem"....like, it has been eroded down to a mere nubbin....
But, that can be turned around...if you will get the help that you need.....
do it for your girls.....

ladyscribbler

No, the abuse lens has distorted what a healthy relationship looks and feels like for you. I had the same pattern for a long time. Love bombers made me feel so secure and wanted, I thought that was how a relationship was supposed to be. Early, exaggerated declarations of love, warp speed commitments. That meant in my mind that he loved me so much that he couldn't possibly abandon me.

I waited for three years to start dating again. And then I realized that I had no idea _how_ to "date." Get to know someone over the course of several weeks and months of interaction? All I knew how to do was instant relationship. 24 hr. first dates, all that stuff.

I knew I needed to break my pattern, so, and this is embarrassing, I read that book The Rules (yeah, I know). But if you can overlook the silliness , it provides a good, basic manual for how to set boundaries in intimate relationships, especially those exciting "new" ones.

Simple things like limiting phone calls to 5 minutes or less, not getting into hours-long text-a-thons. Not replying immediately to anything (they actually give a timetable based on your age, lol). I had to learn how to have a healthy relationship from the ground up, and this was like dating boot camp, the opposite of what I was used to.

But those boundaries weed out the bad apples pretty well. Men whose relationship boundaries are poor, and who can't handle your boundaries will give up pretty quickly. Take care.

thephoenixrises

I know. I always just thought he was immature and insecure?? But it’s just straight to selfish and self serving. The morning after I begged him to pray with me, pray for me, open the Bible with me, fight for me/help me. He had said he would do anything for me so I begged him to help by praying for me-he stated we could pray together and do counseling after we got married. Huge red flag. I am not getting married based on “intentions” of how things will supposedly be. After begging him to pray for me he shows up the next morning sitting on my bed when I get out of the shower and says he’s there to “watch me get dressed”....I was so creeped out and appalled...I think that made my place to him very clear to me...object. (How could you ever see this differently?!)

thephoenixrises

Holy s**t what was I thinking?! Yes, I knew all along...people were screaming RUN and narcissist from the beginning...and I just kept on going-so badly wanting to believe him. Holy smokes I have a lot of work to do. I’m ashamed I accepted his behavior...truly yuck ��

Clover71

Don't be ashamed. He should be ashamed. He gave you everything you wanted to believe on a silver platter even if there were warning signs. This also happens with people who have not been in abusive or relationships with abusers. Just learn from it.

I have a question. It's not a judgmental question at all. I have found your experience and the replies to be really informative. Why were you ok with him being immature and insecure? Was it an age thing?

thephoenixrises

Clover-I honestly have no idea. Lots of work to do in therapy.

trailmix

No it wasn't you, yes he is a huge narcissist (or is really high up on the scale).

The "mirroring" is a dead give-away. We all do that to some degree with others, like if you spend a lot of time with someone you might pick up a word or two they say frequently etc. What you are describing is different. You like this, suddenly he likes it too! Bet he suddenly liked all the foods you liked as well?

Did he watch The Notebook with you??

It is creepy, yes. One thing that I think, for people high up on that scale, is that they are not necessarily master manipulators - it is just them "being". It is the way they think naturally the way they are naturally, so try not to blame yourself or think you were "duped". It's just that these behaviours that ARE manipulative are the way he has always been.

Regardless, trying to be in a relationship with a person that is so narcissistic is a complete waste of time. There is never a good way to "be" with them. You can never trust them, there is no predictability.

You asked him to pray with you. How do you know he is religious at all? The answer is you don't. Today he could be a born again Christian, tomorrow an atheist.

I'm sorry you had to go through this Phoenix, it's very hurtful and it is so hard to comprehend that someone else is not on any kind of thought plain that is in line with what is considered "normal".

My only suggestion is that when you talk to him, if you continue to do so, or when he texts you, look at it with this new found realization. Unmask him.

thephoenixrises

I do see him for who he is. Trust me on that.

Ladybird579

I read that book The Rules

I live by the Rules book when it comes to dating ( or not. ) It really sorts out the wheat from the chaff and has saved me from 3 disastrous relationships before they got off the ground. I knew they would have been by how they went on to treat other women.

BAW81

Phoenix - I am so sorry that you're hurting and confused but have you re-read your post?! He doesn't sound that swell.

I think you need a lot of self-care right now. Staying in a relationship with someone just because they "say" things that make you feel good yet "do" things that make you feel bad is a problem. A problem all of us here are very familiar with.

Look in the mirror and tell yourself how wonderful you are, look at your beautiful children and tell them how wonderful they are and let that loser go.

And when you're feeling weak about him - reread your post. Seriously a lot of horrible stuff.

thephoenixrises

I know..,I know....I always felt like “well, Phoenix, don’t just focus on the bad stuff, look at the good things”....I did see it all along. I saw behind the mask.

dandylion

phoenix......I think that the rules that we are taught, growing up, about how to deal with others is based on the assumption that we will be in relationships with "normal" people.
And, those rules do work pretty well...for the most part...I think....
What they forget to tell us...and, where it all falls apart....is, when we try to apply those rules in relationships with toxic people....like narcissists, abusers, personality disorders of all kinds, addicts.....

Who knew?!

thephoenixrises

Gaw, control and manipulation all along. I was told a few times: “I’m sure you’ve noticed I haven’t been sending you the nice things I used to”. I guess bc I didn’t deserve it in his mind?! Holy manipulation and control and withholding and just awful!!! What a jerk.

thephoenixrises

And yes-I did see all along...I did see! I did. The work I have to do is why on earth I accepted such behavior and didn’t bounce and bolt at the first red flag...lots of work to do...this wasn’t love at all was it...yikes. This is terrifying to realize but I’m glad I did and broke it off-my girls and I are much better off!

FireSprite

I'm sorry you're going through all of this.

Can I ask - did you feel like you waited a reasonable amount of time after your divorce before getting into this new realtionship? (not that I'm judging or think this is the issue, I'm just always curious.... probably because the idea of dating is scary & awful to me, lol)

Don't forget - dealing with an addict with narcissistic qualities is not at all the same as dealing with a full-fledged Narcissist.

thephoenixrises

I do think this guy was full fledged narcissist - he seemed so nice. Almost childlike. But I should have run so many times. I’m embarrassed to admit I accepted such behavior like “I’m telling you I have herpes because I actually care about you, you’re not just some girl I met at a bar”. (Um so you wouldn’t tell them?!?) and “I have to go tee-tee” whenever he had to go to the bathroom. It made my skin crawl. He seemed so childlike and fragile at times and like he didn’t have a clue-but I think that was part of the act. He always said he just didn’t know how to say things...that’s why I always assumed I was misinterpreting things...he said I gave him his smile back, that I taught him how to live, etc so I liked the way that felt. Honestly.

thephoenixrises

And thank you fire sprite...so true! This is nothing like dealing with an addict!!!

Yes, honestly, I waited over two years before dating....so I did feel ready...apparently I was not.

FireSprite

Ehhh.... idk.... don't be so quick to accept blame like that. It sounds like you're dealing with 2 very different types of men/situations..... not so easy to apply everything you learned with #1 to #2 when the underlying issues are so different. I know you worked hard at your recovery so while we all have ongoing "work" to do, it's not like you just ran from one shiny thing to another. 2 yrs seems like a reasonable amount of time for most situations.

I don't have experience with this, I just feel awful for what you're going through.