The small ways you lose yourself
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Join Date: Nov 2014
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The small ways you lose yourself
I'm at the point in my healing where I notice the smaller (less obvious) ways in which I put myself and my preferences on the back burner. Maybe you do (or did, in the past) this, too?
Here's my small example to start:
At night, after dinner, I rush around to hastily prep my bedroom (move my clothes, get the humidifier ready, etc). I do this in a flurry to get to the living room more quickly to watch tv with my husband. (of note: HE does not rush me. I rush me, but I do it in some pre-conditioned response to his presence and our patterns).
If I were alone, I'd take time and care (mostly) to do this in a relaxed way and put away my clothing slowly and with love (that sounds cheesy, but it's how I've operated whenever my husband has been gone for meaningful lengths of time).
Do you have small (they may even seem innocuous) examples of how you (or used to) show up differently than you'd choose to? I would love to hear them.
Here's my small example to start:
At night, after dinner, I rush around to hastily prep my bedroom (move my clothes, get the humidifier ready, etc). I do this in a flurry to get to the living room more quickly to watch tv with my husband. (of note: HE does not rush me. I rush me, but I do it in some pre-conditioned response to his presence and our patterns).
If I were alone, I'd take time and care (mostly) to do this in a relaxed way and put away my clothing slowly and with love (that sounds cheesy, but it's how I've operated whenever my husband has been gone for meaningful lengths of time).
Do you have small (they may even seem innocuous) examples of how you (or used to) show up differently than you'd choose to? I would love to hear them.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
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I'll be honest - I know there were no less than a thousand ways once upon my pre-recovery days.... but it's been SO LONG since I've been that person or even revisited the memories & patterns that made up that behavior that I can hardly give specific examples & I don't want to give it that much mind-space today. 
I can tell you that I was LIVING codependency in it's rawest, most basic form with every breath that I took - the constant & chronic neglect of Self. Everything related to Self took a backseat to others around me - it was chronic with my FOO, constant with my AH & voluntary with all of my friends & work situations but still existed on some level across every part of my life.
I can tell you that I was LIVING codependency in it's rawest, most basic form with every breath that I took - the constant & chronic neglect of Self. Everything related to Self took a backseat to others around me - it was chronic with my FOO, constant with my AH & voluntary with all of my friends & work situations but still existed on some level across every part of my life.
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
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lightandsea, I know EXACTLY what you're talking about, and started a similar thread a couple of years ago when I was fresh out of my marriage to XAH. Here is the link: https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...different.html (Getting to someplace different)
I'm glad you started this thread, b/c I find there are a lot of times I'm STILL not present in the way I want to be. Just the other day, as I lay down in bed to read a little before going to sleep, I paused for a moment to appreciate my bed, my room, my house, and all the things in it that I love. And I thought "wow, how long has it been since I did THAT?"
Taking time for me has been, and remains, my biggest challenge.
I'm glad you started this thread, b/c I find there are a lot of times I'm STILL not present in the way I want to be. Just the other day, as I lay down in bed to read a little before going to sleep, I paused for a moment to appreciate my bed, my room, my house, and all the things in it that I love. And I thought "wow, how long has it been since I did THAT?"
Taking time for me has been, and remains, my biggest challenge.
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 284
This thread definitely resonates with me. My example is that when I would make dinner (every night), I couldn't enjoy my meal until I knew that he was enjoying his. And I take 100% responsibility that I did this all on my own, it wasn't necessarily because of anything he did. And if he wasn't a fan of something, I would never make it again...and there were times that I actually did like it but would go with out.
It was NOT healthy. I am not proud. I will be sure never to do that again.
It was NOT healthy. I am not proud. I will be sure never to do that again.
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honeypig inspired me - I went digging:
Originally Posted by FireSprite 
OMGosh, what ISN'T part of my process?
I grew up without any idea that people really were responsible for identifying so much about themselves - my mother could have turned codependency into a profession so all of my early impressions of self were tied to what others thought of me. I learned how/who to "be" in response to those around me but we called it Love, Doing the Right Thing, etc. That screwed my wiring up fundamentally - my labels didn't match their definitions in any kind of reality.
Figuring out what I wasn't was often easier to identify at first. That helped me identify what I wanted to "drop" - like when I dug deep I realized that giving up being "in control" of every family holiday & gathering was easy because I didn't even really want it in the first place - I didn't give a flying fig about how anything happened. I didn't "need" control, but others around me certainly needed me to & I had been playing that Role for so long I no longer even questioned it. I was the oldest, the one in charge, the one plugging fingers in the dam left & right as a child & I continued it on into adulthood calling it strength & organization.
Uncovering all of those "little" things like this example was critical for me - not just in identifying the "issue" but the underlying feelings it triggered because *that* was really the core I needed to get to in order to break the habit from the inside out - how could I reprogram that "never enough" mentality? It's no joke when I say that I started to question every single question I faced in life - if you asked me whether I wanted vanilla or chocolate ice cream you'd have been surprised how long it took me to answer such a simple question because inside my mind it was like this --->
I'll never, ever forget one day in my early recovery when I needed to grab a fast dinner, solo, in between appts & the plaza I was at had 4 great options but I burst into tears at being completely unable to decide something SO BASIC for myself without another person there to influence my decision. It was a big AHA moment for me & all that I had been learning about codependency.
I do everything I can, on very level, for my mind, body & spirit because all 3 need to be healthy for my recovery to be strong. In the beginning I adopted a philosophy of "if not now, then when?" when faced with new ideas, new projects, new interests.
I've shared so much in these threads, it might be easier to link than to try to recreate the wheel here, lol. These are kind of random & in no specific order:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...f-respect.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...i-missing.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...uper-long.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...covery-me.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...self-talk.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-recovery.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...buzzwords.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...very-long.html
(my first post, lol) http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...thank-you.html
I grew up without any idea that people really were responsible for identifying so much about themselves - my mother could have turned codependency into a profession so all of my early impressions of self were tied to what others thought of me. I learned how/who to "be" in response to those around me but we called it Love, Doing the Right Thing, etc. That screwed my wiring up fundamentally - my labels didn't match their definitions in any kind of reality.
Figuring out what I wasn't was often easier to identify at first. That helped me identify what I wanted to "drop" - like when I dug deep I realized that giving up being "in control" of every family holiday & gathering was easy because I didn't even really want it in the first place - I didn't give a flying fig about how anything happened. I didn't "need" control, but others around me certainly needed me to & I had been playing that Role for so long I no longer even questioned it. I was the oldest, the one in charge, the one plugging fingers in the dam left & right as a child & I continued it on into adulthood calling it strength & organization.
Uncovering all of those "little" things like this example was critical for me - not just in identifying the "issue" but the underlying feelings it triggered because *that* was really the core I needed to get to in order to break the habit from the inside out - how could I reprogram that "never enough" mentality? It's no joke when I say that I started to question every single question I faced in life - if you asked me whether I wanted vanilla or chocolate ice cream you'd have been surprised how long it took me to answer such a simple question because inside my mind it was like this --->
I'll never, ever forget one day in my early recovery when I needed to grab a fast dinner, solo, in between appts & the plaza I was at had 4 great options but I burst into tears at being completely unable to decide something SO BASIC for myself without another person there to influence my decision. It was a big AHA moment for me & all that I had been learning about codependency. I do everything I can, on very level, for my mind, body & spirit because all 3 need to be healthy for my recovery to be strong. In the beginning I adopted a philosophy of "if not now, then when?" when faced with new ideas, new projects, new interests.
I've shared so much in these threads, it might be easier to link than to try to recreate the wheel here, lol. These are kind of random & in no specific order:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...f-respect.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...i-missing.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...uper-long.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...covery-me.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...self-talk.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-recovery.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...buzzwords.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...very-long.html
(my first post, lol) http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...thank-you.html
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Join Date: Nov 2014
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firesprite and honeypig, thank you for sharing your old posts. I LOVED reading them because they help me re-examine my life, my preferences and choices through filters I may not have considered before.
I remembered how, a couple years ago, a big part of my recovery work was on self-talk: literal litanies in my mind with mantras like "I Love myself" and "I am okay" "I honor me."
While I didn't necessarily think my work was done, part of me thought that was enough. But boy, am I learning how how little of me I really know or bring into my life.
Even in my chosen profession, I do well because of everything I do for others. I've crafted a professional life that has me constantly doing doing doing, stepping in, taking on too much. (While I recognize this might apply to the majority of people's work, in my case, I overextend, all the time, then resent later.)
Today I spent 2 hours cleaning. For me. Because I wanted a more peaceful office environment for myself. It feels good to walk in there now. It's a small step for today.
I remembered how, a couple years ago, a big part of my recovery work was on self-talk: literal litanies in my mind with mantras like "I Love myself" and "I am okay" "I honor me."
While I didn't necessarily think my work was done, part of me thought that was enough. But boy, am I learning how how little of me I really know or bring into my life.
Even in my chosen profession, I do well because of everything I do for others. I've crafted a professional life that has me constantly doing doing doing, stepping in, taking on too much. (While I recognize this might apply to the majority of people's work, in my case, I overextend, all the time, then resent later.)
Today I spent 2 hours cleaning. For me. Because I wanted a more peaceful office environment for myself. It feels good to walk in there now. It's a small step for today.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
I remember living with a constant sense of low-level dread - Something Awful (vague and unspecified) was either going to happen or was already happening, and it was All My Fault, even if I didn't know what or how. (I used to have a repeated dream that I was in court charged with a crime that was never quite clear, and knowing I was going to be convicted). That background noise has diminished to almost nonexistent now. When I do get a minor attack of It's All Bad And It's My Fault (I think I posted here about a recent not-actually-a-big-deal scheduling mistake by a colleague, and my inability to believe, at first, that I hadn't in some way caused this), I now think "how weird, I used to feel that way 24/7. I'm so glad that's over".
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Thank you for this thread. Very timely for me.
I am still with AH, working my Al-anon program. It suddenly became clear to me that when I am with him, I speak differently to when I am with other people.
With others I am myself. Full Stop. Me.
With AH I speak very slowly and quietly, in very neutral tones. Never express an opinion. Use the Al-anon "oh" all the time. He rambles on in rounds of circular words. He is very ill. Mentally and physically. Add whisky into the mix. He is mid 70's now. Very weak and frail. Can hardly walk or move around.
I think maybe my behaviour and viewpoint has shifted from dealing with an alcoholic to dealing with an elderly, very sick man. Compassion.
To put into context when my alcoholism was active, I was the verbally and physically abusive one of the two of us. Thankfully I am not now. By the grace of God and my program, I am caring and gentle.
I am still with AH, working my Al-anon program. It suddenly became clear to me that when I am with him, I speak differently to when I am with other people.
With others I am myself. Full Stop. Me.
With AH I speak very slowly and quietly, in very neutral tones. Never express an opinion. Use the Al-anon "oh" all the time. He rambles on in rounds of circular words. He is very ill. Mentally and physically. Add whisky into the mix. He is mid 70's now. Very weak and frail. Can hardly walk or move around.
I think maybe my behaviour and viewpoint has shifted from dealing with an alcoholic to dealing with an elderly, very sick man. Compassion.
To put into context when my alcoholism was active, I was the verbally and physically abusive one of the two of us. Thankfully I am not now. By the grace of God and my program, I am caring and gentle.
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,146
I can say that when I was with AH, my self-care was pretty non-existent. I started gaining weight , wearing elasticized pants, wearing the tee-shirt that I wore to sleep out of the house. Everything that I wore had to be comfortable so that I could roll out of bed, into an ambulance, over night at a hospital, or go to work... all in the same clothes. Oddly, I would worry about his appearance. I would brush his hair, mend his clothes, clean the dirt off him when he came back from his... "adventures". I also stopped being as organized because it was overwhelming. I just to do things half-way: "that's good enough, I can stop here, conserve energy". I would wake up 2 or 3 times a night worrying that he was somewhere... on the street... and then I would go look for him. No sleep. It was terrible. Gradually, I tried to get some perspective on my life, I tried to get some exercise, I tried to spend some money on myself -- AH really resented this. He resented all the efforts I put into my self-care.
For the first time in forever, the other night I decided to draw myself a bath. It felt good to be able to do that. I also cleaned the house. It's nice to live in a clean house, finally.
For the first time in forever, the other night I decided to draw myself a bath. It felt good to be able to do that. I also cleaned the house. It's nice to live in a clean house, finally.
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Ophelia, it strikes me how often, in this thread and others, we mention cleaning the house as a form of self-care. It's interesting how something that is often seen as a chore or drudgery or simply a duty can start to feel good when the frame of mind in which you're doing the work changes. I still let my housework and yardwork slide more often than I would in a perfect world, but when I do get around to it, I try to do it w/an attitude of gratitude for the fact that I have a house and yard to take care of, and also w/anticipation of how nice things will look/feel/smell when I'm done!
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,146
Originally Posted by honeypig
Ophelia, it strikes me how often, in this thread and others, we mention cleaning the house as a form of self-care. It's interesting how something that is often seen as a chore or drudgery or simply a duty can start to feel good when the frame of mind in which you're doing the work changes. I still let my housework and yardwork slide more often than I would in a perfect world, but when I do get around to it, I try to do it w/an attitude of gratitude for the fact that I have a house and yard to take care of, and also w/anticipation of how nice things will look/feel/smell when I'm done!
I think I've become so used to feeling ineffectual, as if nothing I do is good enough, no love I could give another person was love enough for them to treat me with respect, that I started to feel useless. I remember that when I was in my relationship, I repeatedly said, "I'm sorry, I'm not good at anything." I went from saying, "don't worry, I can handle that for you... I can do that for you... I can look after you, I'm good at things," to saying, "I'm sorry, I'm not good at anything." So now if I clean the whole house, when it's done, I think: I did that. I can do something... and the house is not going to turn around and say, "you didn't clean me good enough so now I need... some drugs."
I watched a youtube video a while ago where a marine said that he made his bed every morning, because even if he didn't succeed at everything he set out to do that day, at least he was successful at making his bed.
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My husband actually put my needs for my job before his needs. We lived really close to where I worked. It was a central location. He had to commute longer than I did. When I moved my kids to the inlaws, it was a long commute every weekend and the week was filled with loneliness and calling the kids on the phone every day. It was also exhausting trying to keep up the appearance of a normal family situation. When I went to work from home at inlaws so that I could be around my kids all the time, it was like I was giving up a dream of moving up in the company but I was gaining so much more by having more time with my kids. I am now also in a better department now that is more accounting oriented than sales oriented (I felt like I was losing myself trying to be something that I really was not, but I needed the job). I am not the best at sales but I am better with accounting. It will be 15 years for me at my company this June. I did not imagine myself in a small town, but I am falling in love with the small town where inlaws live. I feel safe there. So if I miss Seattle, I can always take a trip there and visit. Hopefully in the future when my kids are older, we can live in Seattle again and I can pursue a better job at my company.
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I used to clean the house all the time because it was - well, a house that was lived in by an advanced alcoholic with hoarding tendencies. "Cleaning the house" became a sort of passive-aggressive battlefield (and I'm not completely innocent here) in which he tried to maintain what he saw as his important things he might need some day and I saw as piles of garbage. The resulting "treaties" were an increasingly complex set of rules about what I could or could not "disturb".
Now I clean my condo a lot because I like the feel of living in a clean (by my standards) place. It is a much simpler and less complicated relationship to order and cleanness. (I also pay for a housecleaner to come in for a couple of hours twice a month to do big stuff - something I would never have done when I lived with ex because what if someone actually saw the state of the place and the stashes of bottles???).
Now I clean my condo a lot because I like the feel of living in a clean (by my standards) place. It is a much simpler and less complicated relationship to order and cleanness. (I also pay for a housecleaner to come in for a couple of hours twice a month to do big stuff - something I would never have done when I lived with ex because what if someone actually saw the state of the place and the stashes of bottles???).
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I'm not so much about cleaning the house (weird ACoA triggers there) but I am always rearranging, updating, adding & subtracting to my house - especially stuff like accent tables. I am never done purging for some reason that I can't quite figure out too, lol - idk where it all comes from because I do purge items every time I buy new (clothes, purses, accessories, whatever).
I'm not great with bigger stuff like painting & minor construction but I have a long list of stuff like that to tackle as well.
I've been thinking about this since posting in this thread & another major thing that I have neglected is my photography - and that's mostly because I never allowed it to be something I ever even associated with myself. As I stood in my living room deciding which photos to reframe/rehang around my house it struck me that all of my favorites (& other people's faves for that matter) are MY candid shots. I know zip about it but I know what I like when I see it & I know I get a lot of compliments on the work I've shared.
Long past time I found a class for this, don't you all think?
I'm not great with bigger stuff like painting & minor construction but I have a long list of stuff like that to tackle as well.
I've been thinking about this since posting in this thread & another major thing that I have neglected is my photography - and that's mostly because I never allowed it to be something I ever even associated with myself. As I stood in my living room deciding which photos to reframe/rehang around my house it struck me that all of my favorites (& other people's faves for that matter) are MY candid shots. I know zip about it but I know what I like when I see it & I know I get a lot of compliments on the work I've shared.
Long past time I found a class for this, don't you all think?
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Originally Posted by Sasha1972
I remember living with a constant sense of low-level dread - Something Awful (vague and unspecified) was either going to happen or was already happening, and it was All My Fault, even if I didn't know what or how.
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Cleaning the house" became a sort of passive-aggressive battlefield (and I'm not completely innocent here) in which he tried to maintain what he saw as his important things he might need some day and I saw as piles of garbage.
This has reminded me that when I was with exah we moved house many times and we only had a certain amount of room on the removal lorry. Every time his trash took precedent and I had to get rid of my nice things. On one occasion I and our kids were lugging his boxes of metal bits, rusting boxes of nails and screws and broken tiles he'd insisted on bringing to the new place up a long drive. It was 2 am, January and snowing and guess what? He left a brand new ready to fit kitchen behind and all my massive pot flower planters for all his junk. My BIL arrived a little while later, having followed the removal lorry, and he had all my planters jammed in his car. BIL got out and said to exah "You never bring her stuff. It's not right that her stuff gets left everywhere you go." Exah just shrugged. He was happy surrounded by his plastic and metal tat.
I got my own back tho cos when he moved out I hired two dumpsters and put all his stuff in them.
I never had any space or anything that was mine. Now I sit in my own place and am surrounded by my things and my pets and no one is going to leave them behind if I move.
This has reminded me that when I was with exah we moved house many times and we only had a certain amount of room on the removal lorry. Every time his trash took precedent and I had to get rid of my nice things. On one occasion I and our kids were lugging his boxes of metal bits, rusting boxes of nails and screws and broken tiles he'd insisted on bringing to the new place up a long drive. It was 2 am, January and snowing and guess what? He left a brand new ready to fit kitchen behind and all my massive pot flower planters for all his junk. My BIL arrived a little while later, having followed the removal lorry, and he had all my planters jammed in his car. BIL got out and said to exah "You never bring her stuff. It's not right that her stuff gets left everywhere you go." Exah just shrugged. He was happy surrounded by his plastic and metal tat.
I got my own back tho cos when he moved out I hired two dumpsters and put all his stuff in them.
I never had any space or anything that was mine. Now I sit in my own place and am surrounded by my things and my pets and no one is going to leave them behind if I move.
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My XABF moved into my house when we got together. I LOVE my house. It’s a tiny Victorian that I bought with my own money after I got divorced ten years ago.
After I moved in, I redid the whole thing with my own money and sweat. I refinished the fir floors, found antique brass chandeliers to put up, painted everything in whites and pale yellows, saved up for and paid cash for comfortable pretty furniture to mix with my own antiques. I sewed my own curtains, found antique crystal doorknobs, everything. I love my home so much!
When ABF moved in, he would come home drunk and march muddy boots onto my floors. Drool chewing tobacco onto my upholstered furniture. Have accidents in my bed. Use a butcher knife without a cutting board and ruin my counter tops. Burn plastic in my little wood stove.
If I would say please wipe your feet or please don’t burn plastic or here use this cutting board he would say quit nagging me! He was offended when I threw a blanket over “his chair” because I was heartsick about the spilled beer and tobacco stains. He said I had too many rules!! How could he feel at home when I had so many rules!!!
Now I see that his disrespect for my house was also disrespect for me.
The day I kicked him out (yay me!) I started a three-day cleaning purge. I bagged up his **** and put it on the front porch. I bought all new bedding. I scrubbed and scrubbed. Mopped and polished. Lit candles. It was therapeutic and very symbolic of my need to keep a firm boundary in place and take better care of myself. I hate the stains that won’t come out of my couch and chair. But they do serve as a reminder to me of his lack of respect. Not a bad thing to keep in mind.
And him? He lives on somebody’s boat now. I imagine he doesn’t mind following their rules and probably treats the boat better than he did my house.
After I moved in, I redid the whole thing with my own money and sweat. I refinished the fir floors, found antique brass chandeliers to put up, painted everything in whites and pale yellows, saved up for and paid cash for comfortable pretty furniture to mix with my own antiques. I sewed my own curtains, found antique crystal doorknobs, everything. I love my home so much!
When ABF moved in, he would come home drunk and march muddy boots onto my floors. Drool chewing tobacco onto my upholstered furniture. Have accidents in my bed. Use a butcher knife without a cutting board and ruin my counter tops. Burn plastic in my little wood stove.
If I would say please wipe your feet or please don’t burn plastic or here use this cutting board he would say quit nagging me! He was offended when I threw a blanket over “his chair” because I was heartsick about the spilled beer and tobacco stains. He said I had too many rules!! How could he feel at home when I had so many rules!!!
Now I see that his disrespect for my house was also disrespect for me.
The day I kicked him out (yay me!) I started a three-day cleaning purge. I bagged up his **** and put it on the front porch. I bought all new bedding. I scrubbed and scrubbed. Mopped and polished. Lit candles. It was therapeutic and very symbolic of my need to keep a firm boundary in place and take better care of myself. I hate the stains that won’t come out of my couch and chair. But they do serve as a reminder to me of his lack of respect. Not a bad thing to keep in mind.
And him? He lives on somebody’s boat now. I imagine he doesn’t mind following their rules and probably treats the boat better than he did my house.
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I had my 4pm rush. Raising 2 kids and living with a perfectionist was no fun. Everyday at 4 I would rush around putting things in order and stressing out so that when he got home he could relax. The rest of us were not relaxed. It didn't matter what had been done AH would always find something to stress about. Its like he had secret expectations and was setting me up to fail. At one point when I had DS in school but DD was still home he left me a checklist taped to the kitchen cabinet of things he needed done. I told my DS therapist about it. She told me to go home and do everything on the checklist my response was "wth" ! She said do it and I bet within 5 minutes he will find something to comment on. 5 minutes was super generous on her part 30 seconds was more like it. But it goes to show that that behavior wasn't about me..........It did drive me nuts though. My AH soon to be ex still thinks that if everyone could just do the things his way on his timeline then he can finally be happy. Its ridiculous but its also got to be hard to live with the burden of trying to control everything like that.
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