Harperlee4

I've been wondering this a lot lately. People always say that having understanding and forgiveness for those who have hurt us is the best way to heal and move forward. But I have the problem (and I imagine that a lot of you other carers and empaths out there might relate) that I forgive too easily. I try my very best to understand the cruel and hurtful actions of the alcoholic that was in my life and I can see that so many them were mired in his own overwhelming pain.

Anger is in fact not a feeling that I get very often, or when I do it is always a fleeting feeling. I finally had to learn to hold onto my dissatisfaction long enough so that I could leave my alcoholic boyfriend and put a stop to the cruelty and manipulation. I still believe that it was the right decision but now I am concerned that I will never be able to move on. No matter what, I know that my ex is a beautiful and caring person deep down. I keep reminding myself that despite all his terrible actions there is a kind and loving person in there who is deeply hurting and suffering from this horrible disease that is alcoholism. It's so unproductive though as I feel like I am suspending myself within this perpetual yet ultimately futile state of longing; longing for the man that I loved so immensely, longing for him to get better. Wouldn't it be better if I could just brand him a *%@$ and move on with my life?

trailmix

I think so.

The reality is though that alcoholics are just people with a huge problem(s).

The thing is, nothing prohibits you from getting on the crazy train with them, but the question then becomes, can you do that?

Can you sustain that?

If you met a man and he was deeply in debt, say 200k in credit card debt. You get in to a relationship with him and his expectation is that you will pay off half. Are you prepared to do that? While he continues to spend a lot of money?

It's kind of a whacky analogy but I think it works. Can you stay with the person and happily not rack up some resentment? Can you turn a blind eye to the additional spending?

That's it really, you can do it if you want to.

As for forgiveness, yes, it's over-rated lol

I know many say it's for Youuu not them, that you are not absolving them you are letting it go.

Well in that case I say call a spade a spade and say letting it go! And yes, in some cases, as you have described, it can be over-rated.

Isn't the question really how much can you take and still maintain a happy life for yourself, be content etc.

LovePeaceSushi

For me, forgiveness is not overrated because if I can be forgiven for my sins, then who am I not to be able to forgive others? It's actually a gift to myself, because the alternative is harboring resentment and anger, and I just dont want or need that in my life.

Bekindalways

I find that an interesting thought that one can be too forgiving. In a way, this is kinda codependency. I've never heard it expressed the way you did,

" I finally had to learn to hold onto my dissatisfaction long enough so that I could leave my alcoholic boyfriend and put a stop to the cruelty and manipulation."

I've thought of it more as listening to one's own feelings well enough that it is possible to act compassionately for oneself.

I left my qualifier decades ago and it honestly took years to heal. I have always remained single and fully expect to remain so but do feel I have moved on. I did take all that I learned from that relationship and it has certainly influenced how I view life, people, relationships and reality.

I'm kinda rambling here Harper. Take whatever you want and please ignore the rest.

trailmix

We can ramble together Bekindalways because that is exactly what I was thinking about my post.

Forgiveness is simple on the surface and actually can be pretty complicated when trying to describe, I think, because everyone has their own take on what it means.

As Sushi mentioned, for some people that means "the alternative is harboring resentment and anger." For me I might not forgive but i'm also not harbouring resentment or anger - to some maybe that is forgiveness?

To me forgiveness in it's truest sense means absolution and for some, I will not absolve. I just don't care anymore.

Ramblin, ramblin, ramblin

Eddiebuckle

This seems to be at least as much about acceptance as it is about forgiveness. Forgiveness is about past actions, but what seems to be gnawing at you is the loss of who he once was. That is a whole different kettle of fish... I would say something between denial and grieving.

Harperlee4

Thanks I really appreciate all of your perspectives. I guess what I am struggling with is more acceptance. And no I don’t think it’s right to hold onto anger or resentment but maybe I’ll strive towards compassion and understanding as opposed to forgiveness. I can understand what motivated my ex to do such hurtful things but unless he can apologise and own up to his mishaps I will continue to hold him accountable.

I have nothing but love for him but I also must have respect for myself, like what bekindalways said about having compassion for yourself. And maybe in a way holding my ex alcoholic accountable is the most loving thing I can do to help him hopefully take a step forward towards recovery.

Sorry I’m more just thinking out loud now. All of your comments have been really insightful however and I have taken something away from every one of them of so thank you for taking the time to respond to my ponderings!

AnvilheadII

No matter what, I know that my ex is a beautiful and caring person deep down.

you sure about that? because people who are inherently good and kind do not turn vicious towards others just to alleviate their own pain and try to feel better. personal pain is NOT an excuse for bad behavior, it is not license to be cruel and disrespectful. i think often our "forgiveness" is just a way to give them a free pass, because accepting that they really are just mean spirited selfish jerks is a hard pill to swallow.

Sasha1972

I think "forgiveness" doesn't have to involve any kind of judgment of the other person - whether they are good and kind "deep down" or whether they are bad all the way through. I have no way of knowing who my alcoholic ex "really" is, especially not in the past few years. For me, forgiveness means that I sincerely hope he may be released from his suffering (because that I am sure of - that he is suffering) and recognizing that being angry at him all the time no longer serves me well (which is not to say I don't slip into anger - see my posts!). I don't have to overlook or downplay the harm he caused to me, and I don't have to decide whether or not there's a good person somewhere in there buried under the addiction.

Bekindalways

I'm in the camp that believes we are all, deep down, a mix of good and bad.

I believe it is a common AA saying that there is a bit of good in the worst of us and a bit of bad in the best of us. Or in other words, the line between good and bad goes right down the center of every one of us.

I left before my qualifier spiraled into his worst, drug addiction and dealing, along with armed robbery. At the time, I exchanged letters (yeah I'm that old) with his sister. She was so happy to communicate with someone who remembered the brilliant, sensitive young man with full ride scholarships.

FireSprite

Lots of thoughts, so I'll add to the Ramble...

Yes, I believe it's possible to forgive too easily if you do it as a way to accept bad behavior without having to examine it or call it out for what it really is. (like a version of denial - doesn't sound like what you're doing though?)

I do NOT think true forgiveness is overrated because that really IS necessary in so many ways in order for Self-Healing to occur - don't forget forgiveness is never about the other person, not really.

I raised a lot of the same questions about forgiveness vs/= acceptance a while back because this stuff spins my head & we had a great conversation that really helped me:

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ally-mean.html (What does Forgiveness really MEAN?)

You can still move on with your life regardless of whichever label fits - which I think, circles us back to Acceptance being such a big component of Forgiveness.

OpheliaKatz

Hey. Like Bekindalways, I also ramble, always. When I'm post anything here, reply to anyone, take what you want and leave the rest cause I ramble. I agree with Anvilhead though.

For me, I think you should forgive when you leave. After you leave. When you feel safe enough to forgive. I think forgiveness is for you not the person you are forgiving. It's for you to accept that yes, that person is a selfish j*rk, but you no longer feel bad about it because you know how to protect yourself from them... it was what it was... and now you can move on. If my ex showed up and said, "please forgive me," I would say, "it's my business if I forgive you or not, bye-bye," because I don't have anything left to give him. I also think that you can't forgive someone for something when you don't clearly know what exactly they have done to you. So if you're still enmeshed with the addict, and they are still serving up lies, you can't forgive them because their behavior is ongoing. I believe that forgiveness is retrospective, otherwise there is no way to move on. That's just how I feel about it.

I also think that anger and resentment have their purposes. I believe that sadness has its purpose too. The problem is when you get stuck with one emotion. Like, if you are angry and its not useful anymore, but you can't stop being angry. That's when anger becomes destructive. When sadness becomes destructive it becomes depression. And if all you ever do is accept the bad behavior of someone else, that is also destructive (very bad for you, potentially bad for them). There is a time for everything, including judgement and forgiveness. If people tell you to forgive when you are not ready to forgive, they are not respecting your emotional journey.

Mango blast

Self-forgiveness is most important to me.

I feel as if I've betrayed myself. I am angry with myself on many levels. Much of this seems irrational yet the feelings are very real.

Forgiveness of others is not my priority. I am also finding I've forgiven much too quickly of much abuse. Now is the time for me to step away from forgiving others.

Sasha1972

I don't know if I will ever completely "forgive" ex, but I do know I turned some sort of corner recently, when I realized that for a few months, as ex careened from one drunk screwup to another, I hadn't had any thoughts along the lines of "that #!@$!, he DESERVES to suffer for the harm he's brought to me, to Kid and to other people, so it's about time karma bit him". I wasn't thinking about how much ex deserved to suffer (I also wasn't thinking that he didn't deserve to suffer so much and therefore feeling sorry for him). I was just not thinking about the badness and wrongness of what he had done (and continues to do). And that was reducing (slightly) the amount of anger and toxicity in my life.

This isn't forgiveness as much as a form of detachment.

BAW81

I think this is a really interesting thread so I'm jumping in...For me, I do not believe my forgiveness absolves my STBXAH from what he has done because the definition of absolution is "set or declare (someone) free from blame, guilt, or responsibility."

He did what he did so I believe he is responsible. That said, I'm working on forgiving what I believe he is guilty of/responsible for so that I stop harboring the anger tied to those transgressions. In turn, I am working on forgiving myself for things I'm guilty of/responsible for again to lighten my emotional load and make room for more positive emotions to grow and flourish.

In my opinion, absolution applies to those wrongfully accused of something. Forgiveness applies to those who have done something "wrong."

I will echo what has been said by many others on this site, the act of forgiveness has absolutely nothing to do with the person you are activtely forgiving, it is an act to help the forgiver.

Also, forgiving someone should not mean that you are saying their behavior is OK nor tolerating it further. It is about recognizing it is wrong and making peace with it so you can learn from it and let it go.

NYCDoglvr

Forgiving someone let's US off the hook. Nothing worse than walking around with a belly full of resentment and anger. When I was ranting about ex-boyfriend to a sponsor her response: "Well, you picked him!" It felt like a punch at the time but was really the issue. If I ignore red flags and stay engaged it's my fault I am in this misery.

aliciagr

I went through a lot with my husband. He was even abusive at one point. I was angry and hurt, but in time I was able to forgive him because I knew it wasnt "him" in his right mind. But it was not a level of forgiveness that didnt allow me to say what he did was wrong. It didnt prevent me from removing myself from the danger I was in while he was in that condition. It was more about forgiving a person who 'knew not what he was doing'. There was a sadness I felt. An acceptance.

Later, when he stopped the substances and we talked about all that happened. When I saw him revert back to the man I married in thought and heart. THEN I was able to forgive him, my husband on a deeper level where I was willing to trust and rebuild.

So for me, 2 levels of forgiveness.

I could have moved on with my life based on the forgiveness and acceptance that I offered initially. I knew and accepted why things happened and that was enough to give me peace. Inner peace.

I also try to focus on what kind of person I want to be. My values and beliefs. As a Christian its not my place to pass moral judgement. I also tried to think about the quote 'do unto others' and I would hope to be forgiven and seen in totality for the person I am, or the person I was (if I was lost in an addiction). At least by those who truly knew me.

LifeRecovery

Harperlee-

When it all hit for me and I was finally dealing with the elephant in the room, alcohol, but also was processing an affair that my exH had had.

A great book that helped me was "How Do I Forgive You and the Freedom Not To," by Janis Abrahm Spring. It is focused on infidelity, but it gave me permission to decide what forgiveness meant to me, it gave me space to take my time and most importantly it gave me freedom to stop heaping more shame on myself when I felt anger or other "negative," emotions.

Another book that I did not read until later but helped was "The Dance of Anger" by Harriet Learner. I have some angry people in my life. I was so afraid of being angry like them that I did not allow myself to feel anger at all and for me it was tied in with forgiveness. A great quote that resonates with my life along this line is "Anger is depression turned outwards, and depression is anger turned inwards." I was angry but it was so shameful to me that I turned it inwards and took it out on myself.

I am many years out from the relationship that got me here, and for me this process of anger and forgiveness has been addressed in layers. I needed to unearth years of anger and spent awhile feeling it and addressing all my anger for the first time. Now eight years out from when it all hit the fan I am realizing I have some more work with forgiveness to work through.....I think it may be more about forgiving me though than my ex. I will keep you updated.