joandmelandhan

I have experienced the receiving end of that term and watched it being used in a very degrading manner by "addicts" as you call us to and about one another. It may be something more prevalent in the UK but yes it has developed over here (in my experience) to be a put down/sneer at choices of recovery method that differ from, lets just say, that persons choice. Hence yes if used as a put down I do find it offensive.
Sensitive? Maybe.
Unfounded? Absolutely not.
However that is clearly not the point of the thread and I don't think the "lol" was particularly helpful either tbh.

aliciagr

YES THIS

Recovery is an inside job.

Sure some people work a program thats visual, but most people dont.

And since this is the family forum it might be worth mentioning that the person dealing with the addiction may not share all of their recovery methods with the family member/friend.

Just like you said behavior modification and change of habits takes time. Moods often are part of these changes correct?


FIRESPRITE

A family member could come here and say nope, no program, and still goes to the bar (even if drinking tonic which they may know or not) and is not in a good mood. verdict - Not in recovery, dry drunk. A person in recovery does this and this, (based on ones own recovery beliefs or personal experiences). But there is often a process one is going through inside. A process of change.

in therapy no one has ever used labels with my family. I dont know if anyone used dry drunk term about my husband but I remember being told a lot that he wasnt ready for recovery because he didnt do certain things, and didnt work a specific program. My MIL was notorious for this, and she could not support anything that wasnt her version of recovery. I was highly insulted by her assumptions even if she didnt label them.

PuzzledHeart

Just a comment about this article... which says...

The researchers also determined that several factors help predict which alcohol abuse-impacted people who try to quit drinking will find success. These factors include being a woman, being over the age of 40 and having a spouse.


There's a phrase that got beaten into my head in grad school.
CORRELATION DOES NOT MEAN CAUSATION.

So just because a spouse is a predictive factor in the quitting success rate doesn't mean that you should stay with your spouse in the hope of getting him/her to quit.

It could be that the existence of a spouse is actually a proxy for something else, such as the stage of alcoholism. I can envision a scenario (and this is very much speculation here) where someone drinks to the stage where the spouse has no point but to leave. At that point, the progression of the disease is so severe that the higher brain functions that would help a person overcome the addiction are suppressed. The spouse's decision to leave has nothing to do with the alcoholic's ability to quit, but it's a symptom and sign of how far the disease has gone. I don't have access to the original study, so perhaps the authors have already written out this out. You could probably speculate other scenarios that might explain this correlation.

If you want a slightly humorous take on what I'm just talking about, you can take a look at this. There is much black humor in there so you have been warned.

Spurious Correlations

LLLisa

Obviously you didn't appreciate my response. It came from a place of wanting to assist you to see that this is not all about him.

I believe that even if you found the proof he wants you to find he'd find a reason to ignore it. That's just what they do. This "research" is just a deflection on his part.You're in a no win situation. As the wife of an alcoholic you and any kids are not first in his life. Alcohol is first. Even if he is not drinking, his "not drinking" is still first. I hope you put yourself first and think about your needs first. You have a life too.

dandylion

Puzzled Heart.....no argument here....I, too, have been similarly beaten about the head about correlation is not necessarily causation.....

I was simply trying to help Wamama locate some materials on data that had been collected.....

Swallowing small amounts of saliva on a regular basis, over a lifetime, leads to death.....

bradly22

Well, there is no such thing as a dry drunk. It's just fiction.

Wamama48

I think you hit the nail on the head with that statement...... In my experience commitment comes first, followed by finding the most suitable support rather than find a program then commit.[/QUOTE]

Wamama48

I apoligize. You're right, it is degrading.

Wamama48

I replied to this post, I just don't know where it went. Oh wait its above. I swear I will never get the responding to a post with the quote option.

Wamama48

Its hard to be civil sometimes isnt it?

Wamama48

Oh wow. No words for that one.

Sailorgirl57

My counselor, an addiction specialist, said my boyfriend who tried to quit drinking on his own without any treatment or program had 98% chance of going back to drinking.

Wamama48

Im sorry. I was feeling defensive. Maybe I know he will probably use it as an excuse. Alcoholics can come up with some real crazy stuff. I plan to just hand it to him and walk off. I have no hopes of it swaying him either way, and honestly, I dont care anymore. Maybe it will help him, maybe hes being manipulative, maybe hes looking for a fight. I dont care. Im only here because for now I have no where to go. Working on that though.

Wamama48

My counselor, an addiction specialist, said my boyfriend who tried to quit drinking on his own without any treatment or program had 98% chance of going back to drinking. EXACTLY. That's what I've read too.

PuzzledHeart

LOL and Oh no! My post wasn't meant to be a reprimand of any sort- I just didn't want that line about spouses as a predictive variable convert itself into an argument for standing by your alcoholic spouse. Because in the end, we all know it's margarine that causes divorce in Maine.

Wamama, I'm so sorry you're going through this.

Wamama48

Thanks everyone for your posts. There are too many to reply to everyone individually. I appreciate you recovering alcoholics chiming in because you've been there. You know. I am holding out no hope that seeing a few statistics will change anything. He might want it because he really wants to know (99% sure that's not going to happen) or because he wants to pick a fight, or ? For me, its just a little thing that takes me 10 minutes. If it helps him, awesome, if not, that's not my problem. I've been on this board a little over a week, and I am still learning. I have learned a LOT about myself, the 3 C's, how to detach, codependency etc. He said on day 28 he was making his decision to call for help or continue to do it on his own. I've had a migraine for 3 days now, sleeping half the day, trying to get it under control. I've detached from him mostly, still working on that. But I can't help but be scared knowing he will let us down again and continue to do it on his own. And by doing it on his own, I mean failing. Soon. He is hanging out with his friend who is a heavy drinker on a daily basis again. Some have said it's possible. But, I know this man. I see and hear his attitude about this whole thing, I see the obstinacy, the anger and the fact he thinks I'm threatening him with leaving if he doesn't get help. I cant help but be scared knowing he wont make that call tomorrow. Yep, Im scared.

DesertEyes

Okay people, the original question has been answered many different ways. Time to move on to other threads where there are plenty of folks in need of support and compassion.

Mike
Moderator, SR

velma929

I worked with someone I'd have considered a dry drunk. He didn't drink. He claimed to be a friend of Bill W., he was able to parrot the phrases and ideas of AA.

And still, everything in his life that wasn't perfect was somebody's fault: Somebody else's fault. He had multiple speeding tickets because the cops were out to get him. His job was stressful because the hours were difficult. (I worked there, too. Store was open from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m., which does not constitute unusual hours) His wife wasn't having sex with him. (He was having affairs) The bank unfairly expected mortgage payments, in full and on time. After gifting them down payments for two (!) homes, his unhelpful in-laws wouldn't give them any more money. His wife's boss treated her badly (She lied to the bank about Wife's income so they could buy the house they wanted) Our city was too small and unsophisticated. You get the idea. He was fired for stealing from our employer.He never did drink again, but he never dealt with getting his life in order.

So I'd say, yes, you can stop drinking without a program. That's ALL he did, though. He was still a thieving, lying, irresponsible, adulterous pill.

Learning14

I don't give ultimatums or threats. I tell people what I will/will not put up with in my life. Whether they think that is an ultimatum or threat, is on them.

I am allowed to pick and chose the way I want to live and conduct my life. Same as everyone else.

I would convey this same thing to your husband.

Wamama48

I defiantly have, which is why he is probably thinking I'm try to control him.