Alcoholic Suffering Medical Effects of Abuse. Miffed Not Being Viewed As A 'Cancer' Patient
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Alcoholic Suffering Medical Effects of Abuse. Miffed Not Being Viewed As A 'Cancer' Patient
Small rant.
Alcoholic has started to suffer the medical effects of decades of drug and alcohol abuse and is miffed they are not treated/viewed as a cancer patient or something. People are not saying 'told you so' but he constantly and 'strategically' talks about his condition/s-especially with certain friends and family. Got miffed initially because no one traveled 30 miles when he started outpatient treatments for his issues. His conditions/s are treatable manageable but feels he should get leeway to live out his final years or decades as completing a bucket list. He wants a pass on numerous issues and are not supposed to 'challenge' or question him.
His GF who enables the crap out of him pumps his mind full of crap as well. She constantly reinforces his resentments. She seems to switch back and fourth from butt kissing to manipulation. Her behavior has become more bold of late..
Everyone asks how he's doing, how did the last treatment go etc but again resents the fact he's not viewed like people with more traditional ailments like cancer, plague or senior citizen issues.
Alcoholic has started to suffer the medical effects of decades of drug and alcohol abuse and is miffed they are not treated/viewed as a cancer patient or something. People are not saying 'told you so' but he constantly and 'strategically' talks about his condition/s-especially with certain friends and family. Got miffed initially because no one traveled 30 miles when he started outpatient treatments for his issues. His conditions/s are treatable manageable but feels he should get leeway to live out his final years or decades as completing a bucket list. He wants a pass on numerous issues and are not supposed to 'challenge' or question him.
His GF who enables the crap out of him pumps his mind full of crap as well. She constantly reinforces his resentments. She seems to switch back and fourth from butt kissing to manipulation. Her behavior has become more bold of late..
Everyone asks how he's doing, how did the last treatment go etc but again resents the fact he's not viewed like people with more traditional ailments like cancer, plague or senior citizen issues.
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Hi, quest.
Well, you know the addict personality.
It’s all about them.
It’s not their fault, any of it.
Everyone owes them something.
Consider it quacking and ignore if at all possible.
Maybe stay away from addict and gf for a while to preserve your serenity?
Well, you know the addict personality.
It’s all about them.
It’s not their fault, any of it.
Everyone owes them something.
Consider it quacking and ignore if at all possible.
Maybe stay away from addict and gf for a while to preserve your serenity?
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Well, he can say whatever he wants, but it's up to the people around him whether they buy the line he's selling (alcoholism shouldn't be treated any differently than cancer) or not. If cancer made people behave the way alcohol makes people behave, it would probably be a very unpopular medical condition too.
My ex tried the line that I was being unreasonable because if he had a head injury rather than an addiction, I would understand that he had a medicla problem outside his control and wouldn't be trying to "withhold" our daughter, out of spite. My response was that if he had a head injury that led to dangerous behaviors, I would indeed be maintaining a safety zone around Kid, and my personal feelings about the cause of his dangerous behaviors has nothing to do with anything.
My ex tried the line that I was being unreasonable because if he had a head injury rather than an addiction, I would understand that he had a medicla problem outside his control and wouldn't be trying to "withhold" our daughter, out of spite. My response was that if he had a head injury that led to dangerous behaviors, I would indeed be maintaining a safety zone around Kid, and my personal feelings about the cause of his dangerous behaviors has nothing to do with anything.
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Originally Posted by thequest 
Everyone asks how he's doing, how did the last treatment go etc but again resents the fact he's not viewed like people with more traditional ailments like cancer, plague or senior citizen issues.
Understand your rant, just focus on you. As his health continues to spiral downwards, it'll probably become even more pathetic to watch. Steel yourself.
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As you can imagine, the topic of cancer or diabetes vs. alcoholism comes up here every so often. Some interesting reads if you do a search for those threads.
My first husband was an alcoholic. He never attempted true recovery, and his meager attempts at sobriety went as you would expect. He knew he was making poor choices that negatively affected not only his health but his whole family. He kept right at it.
My second/current husband, while still my boyfriend, battled cancer, and thankfully won. He fought hard and did all the things the doctors said he should, tests, surgery, chemo, you name it, if the doctor said " you need to do XYZ" that's what he did, he was serious about fighting his disease. Chemo kicked his butt but he fought through it like a trouper.
"There is a HUGE difference between choosing to stay an active alcoholic and being a cancer patient. As a woman who has dealt with both types of "illness" in my "romantic" life, I have a lot more respect for the man that chose to fight for his health than I do for the man that was willing to bring down his family to stay sick." ( Quoted from something I wrote on a different thread)
I don't have patience for alcoholics that think we need to pity their circumstances after the choices they made to get themselves there... HOWEVER I will have RESPECT for them if they fight hard for their recovery.
My first husband was an alcoholic. He never attempted true recovery, and his meager attempts at sobriety went as you would expect. He knew he was making poor choices that negatively affected not only his health but his whole family. He kept right at it.
My second/current husband, while still my boyfriend, battled cancer, and thankfully won. He fought hard and did all the things the doctors said he should, tests, surgery, chemo, you name it, if the doctor said " you need to do XYZ" that's what he did, he was serious about fighting his disease. Chemo kicked his butt but he fought through it like a trouper.
"There is a HUGE difference between choosing to stay an active alcoholic and being a cancer patient. As a woman who has dealt with both types of "illness" in my "romantic" life, I have a lot more respect for the man that chose to fight for his health than I do for the man that was willing to bring down his family to stay sick." ( Quoted from something I wrote on a different thread)
I don't have patience for alcoholics that think we need to pity their circumstances after the choices they made to get themselves there... HOWEVER I will have RESPECT for them if they fight hard for their recovery.
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It's a slippery slope. I've heard addiction called everything from a brain disease to a choice to an impulse control disorder, etc.. I still don't quite understand it and grapple to make some sense and rationale, but at some point there is the toggle between personal responsibility and an absence of free will (stolen by the addiction). For me, the idea of addiction is as much a philosophical one as it is physical. How do we treat the addict whose diseased mind is the same mind needed to obtain lasting sobriety? A cancer patient may fight to the ends of the earth to beat their disease, as the mind of a physically ill patient is usually healthy enough to put a treatment plan into practice and follow it. How does an addict afford the same ability to put their own treatment plan into place when the #1 tool needed to do so is diseased? By all means I am not removing the responsibility from the addict to get better, but I am posing what I feel is a very real and logical idea that gets overlooked in dealing with addicts and other sick-minded individuals.
I know I am in the minority here, but I do feel sympathy for the addict. I will stop myself here.
I know I am in the minority here, but I do feel sympathy for the addict. I will stop myself here.
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Originally Posted by Smarie78
By all means I am not removing the responsibility from the addict to get better, but I am posing what I feel is a very real and logical idea that gets overlooked in dealing with addicts and other sick-minded individuals.
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Great posit, Smarie. And no, I didn't typo the word post.
Hmmm. Rather than look at it as cancer, I look at it as any other diagnosable mental illness. How does someone with bi-polar or schizophrenia get well when they have to use an out-of-balance brain to motivate them to do it?
With help from people who love them, the medical community, and a desire to change self-destructive behavior.
More baffling is those who do come to the point of wanting and accepting help is the common episodes of going off meds. By the grace of God, I don't suffer from something like that, but I know from people who do this happens. Usually the meds help end unhealthy behaviors - spending binges, risky sex, nights and days back to back without sleep creating art, then crushing depression - but once they feel better they go off meds. Often the reason I heard was they liked feeling those manic highs - while hating the lows - and didn't want to go thru life not feeling "great" again, didn't like feeling as if their thoughts are feelings were suppressed. Self-destruction resumed until they became compliant with meds again. And knowing full well it would occur, would reason, "I'll just go off for a few days, or a week, just to enjoy life for a little while." Days turned into a week, and one week turned into several, until a concerned family member - or the police - intervened and they became compliant with meds again.
Doesn't sound all that much different from my alcoholism. I liked the euphoria, didn't like paying the price for it. Instead for me, rather than maintain a med schedule, I had to maintain not following my "self-med" schedule, maintain abstinence.
I know the insanity of it. When I was Dx'd with Crohn's, I maintained compliance with my meds, didn't miss doctor appointments, even when I felt great. Tried to keep it up as my problem drinking progressed into abuse, dependence and full-blown alcoholism, and by that point I had such a case of the "F-its" I didn't care anymore.
I'd practice amazing self-care when it came to taking care of one disease, while totally abusing myself and hurting those who loved me with the other. And I didn't get better until I wanted to, and by the time I wanted to I couldn't do it on my own anymore. But by that point I was divorced, and alone b/c I'd driven anyone who cared about me away with anger, disgust or the inability to watch me spiral further downwards.
My own help came in the form of my doctors, rehab, and the rooms of AA. But usually by the point an alcoholic becomes willing, it's become too hard to do on just his/her own power.
I don't have all the answers, but for me I had to become willing to let others make good decisions for me and get whatever help I needed to put them into action and carry them out.
Hmmm. Rather than look at it as cancer, I look at it as any other diagnosable mental illness. How does someone with bi-polar or schizophrenia get well when they have to use an out-of-balance brain to motivate them to do it?
With help from people who love them, the medical community, and a desire to change self-destructive behavior.
More baffling is those who do come to the point of wanting and accepting help is the common episodes of going off meds. By the grace of God, I don't suffer from something like that, but I know from people who do this happens. Usually the meds help end unhealthy behaviors - spending binges, risky sex, nights and days back to back without sleep creating art, then crushing depression - but once they feel better they go off meds. Often the reason I heard was they liked feeling those manic highs - while hating the lows - and didn't want to go thru life not feeling "great" again, didn't like feeling as if their thoughts are feelings were suppressed. Self-destruction resumed until they became compliant with meds again. And knowing full well it would occur, would reason, "I'll just go off for a few days, or a week, just to enjoy life for a little while." Days turned into a week, and one week turned into several, until a concerned family member - or the police - intervened and they became compliant with meds again.
Doesn't sound all that much different from my alcoholism. I liked the euphoria, didn't like paying the price for it. Instead for me, rather than maintain a med schedule, I had to maintain not following my "self-med" schedule, maintain abstinence.
I know the insanity of it. When I was Dx'd with Crohn's, I maintained compliance with my meds, didn't miss doctor appointments, even when I felt great. Tried to keep it up as my problem drinking progressed into abuse, dependence and full-blown alcoholism, and by that point I had such a case of the "F-its" I didn't care anymore.
I'd practice amazing self-care when it came to taking care of one disease, while totally abusing myself and hurting those who loved me with the other. And I didn't get better until I wanted to, and by the time I wanted to I couldn't do it on my own anymore. But by that point I was divorced, and alone b/c I'd driven anyone who cared about me away with anger, disgust or the inability to watch me spiral further downwards.
My own help came in the form of my doctors, rehab, and the rooms of AA. But usually by the point an alcoholic becomes willing, it's become too hard to do on just his/her own power.
Originally Posted by Smarie78
How does an addict afford the same ability to put their own treatment plan into place when the #1 tool needed to do so is diseased?
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I've said this before, but I'll repeat myself - someone doesn't go to the local Piggly-Wiggly for a case of schizophrenia, or bowel cancer. They make a conscious effort to: get in the car, drive to the store, pick it out, pay for it, get back to the car, drive home, park the car, go inside the house, get a glass, pour it, and then put it to their lips.
Yes, I agree that there are probably misfiring synapses involved, but it's still a choice and an effort.
My $.02
Yes, I agree that there are probably misfiring synapses involved, but it's still a choice and an effort.
My $.02
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Interesting topic.... my wife uses the same analogy in why she feels she should not be treated any less than anyone else with a disease....
I always knew her argument was faulty by comparing to a disease like cancer or heart disease... and that mostly has to do with how those diseases affect the people in the sick person's life. Addiction is a devistating disease... the actions of the addict are terribly destructive not just to themselves, but all those around. Cancer is not typically that way. So while someone recovering from cancer can be trusted to resume normal life once they come back home, and addict can not... unfortunately, the best comparison would be to that of a paroled criminal... they have served their time, and must now regain the trust of those around them.
Like CentralOhioDad stated, I too can not grip how the disease of addiction can so overwhelmingly make the addict make such poor choices... they are still choices... and to deny that they were responsible for those choices is using the disease as an excuse.
Just my $0.02 worth.
I always knew her argument was faulty by comparing to a disease like cancer or heart disease... and that mostly has to do with how those diseases affect the people in the sick person's life. Addiction is a devistating disease... the actions of the addict are terribly destructive not just to themselves, but all those around. Cancer is not typically that way. So while someone recovering from cancer can be trusted to resume normal life once they come back home, and addict can not... unfortunately, the best comparison would be to that of a paroled criminal... they have served their time, and must now regain the trust of those around them.
Like CentralOhioDad stated, I too can not grip how the disease of addiction can so overwhelmingly make the addict make such poor choices... they are still choices... and to deny that they were responsible for those choices is using the disease as an excuse.
Just my $0.02 worth.
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Originally Posted by Smarie78
How does an addict afford the same ability to put their own treatment plan into place when the #1 tool needed to do so is diseased?
While I can see how it belongs on the spectrum closer to mental than physical illness/disease, I still have NEVER seen a piece of research that can draw a straight line between those 2 points either - nothing that shows ANY kind of "if this - then that" in terms of DNA, brain development, genetics, whatever. If anyone has those resources to share - that cite studies & research, not opinion - I'll be HAPPY to read it.
I think that part of the Codie-sickness is having an expectation of knowing the "right" way for our qualifiers to recover. That we are so keenly aware of their path's requirements that we know exactly when, where, why & how they should reach their rock bottoms & recovery. Impossible IMO because this is a spiritual disease first & foremost - one that develops into a physical dependency only after a pattern of numbing has been established. The physical disease is secondary to the spiritual/emotional deficiency that precedes it.
We can't control another's recovery any more than we can control their active states - that goes for ALL kinds of dysfunction, not just addicts.
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Originally Posted by CentralOhioDad
I've said this before, but I'll repeat myself - someone doesn't go to the local Piggly-Wiggly for a case of schizophrenia, or bowel cancer.
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Originally Posted by CentralOhioDad
I've said this before, but I'll repeat myself - someone doesn't go to the local Piggly-Wiggly for a case of schizophrenia, or bowel cancer. They make a conscious effort to: get in the car, drive to the store, pick it out, pay for it, get back to the car, drive home, park the car, go inside the house, get a glass, pour it, and then put it to their lips.
Yes, I agree that there are probably misfiring synapses involved, but it's still a choice and an effort.
My $.02
Yes, I agree that there are probably misfiring synapses involved, but it's still a choice and an effort.
My $.02
Takes a lot of effort to keep living that way, going to the liquor store hung-over, hating myself knowing what I was about to again. Going to work feeling like crap in early stages of withdrawal b/c I needed the money. Still did it.
Plenty of self-destructive behaviors out there to indulge in that destroy our health. Mine just happened to be alcoholism, and sadly it's one that hurts the people in our lives who love us, too.
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I wonder if there are multiple "alcoholisms", just like there are many forms of cancer (which get lumped together under one word)? I have known some alcoholics (my BFF's husband is one) who had a "moment of clarity", looked at the state of their lives, did the math, and realized they had to stop drinking. It was very difficult and they may have slipped along the way, but they were able to form the thought "I am wrecking everything I care about because I drink too much", and sustain that thought so that they could fight hard to live better. Again, relapses happened, but they had the cognitive and emotional wherewithal of most normal adults so they could make at least some good decisions.
There are other alcoholics like my ex, whom I can only understand by thinking of alcoholism as a form of organic brain injury or pathology. When I think "why on earth does he ..." the only answer that makes sense is "because his brain doesn't work like other people". He can't form the intent to do better, he can't remember the chaos his drinking has caused, he can't distinguish between reality and fantasy. This is something that seems to me to be beyond the psychological processes of denial and projection, and gets to the question of whether he can indeed think like other people think. (And this is a person with several advanced degrees, who used to hold a high-status professional position).
I am now pulling myself back from the brink of a rant about my ex.
I guess my point is there's probably no one-size-fits-all for addiction. The same behavior (persistently sustaining or relapsing to the use of a substance which is known to produce negative physical and social outcomes for oneself and others) may be a manifestation of many different underlying processes, which we're only starting to sort out.
There are other alcoholics like my ex, whom I can only understand by thinking of alcoholism as a form of organic brain injury or pathology. When I think "why on earth does he ..." the only answer that makes sense is "because his brain doesn't work like other people". He can't form the intent to do better, he can't remember the chaos his drinking has caused, he can't distinguish between reality and fantasy. This is something that seems to me to be beyond the psychological processes of denial and projection, and gets to the question of whether he can indeed think like other people think. (And this is a person with several advanced degrees, who used to hold a high-status professional position).
I am now pulling myself back from the brink of a rant about my ex.
I guess my point is there's probably no one-size-fits-all for addiction. The same behavior (persistently sustaining or relapsing to the use of a substance which is known to produce negative physical and social outcomes for oneself and others) may be a manifestation of many different underlying processes, which we're only starting to sort out.
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