What changed?

Old 01-05-2018, 01:44 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by DontRemember View Post
I agree that marriage counselling with a drunk that hasn't owned up and sought help,on their own, is pointless. I would have just lied and tried to manipulate everyone in the room. I was good at manipulation and I'm not proud of that.
He has owned up and I have him making the calls and paperwork for marriage counselor. I don’t think he will manipulate bc he feels bad. But whether he’s done drinking is a different story,
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Old 01-05-2018, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Angrymarble View Post
I have him making the calls,
Just saying; I'd do/did WHATEVER(really...just enough) it took to keep 'living' how I wanted to 'live'. I didn't care about anyone or anything except a drink. I played people.
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Old 01-07-2018, 05:22 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
 
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Listen to DontRemember. Don't bother going to marriage counseling with an active addict. Therapy does not work unless the addict is in recovery first. You get into the room with them, you pour your heart out, meanwhile they are sitting there finding new ways to manipulate you because you've shown them your soft underbelly. Eventually the counselor gets manipulated into helping the addict gaslight you... because their manipulation makes YOU seem nuts.

People want reasons for crazy behavior: maybe he was stressed, maybe his life got worse... maybe, maybe, maybe. It doesn't matter what the reason was, there is no reason except "that's what addiction is like, it's progressive." The problem with trying to find reasons for the behavior is that it allows the addict to externalize blame... and allows YOU to do that too. So you think: if only I make his life less stressful by doing xyz, he will drink less. No. It doesn't work that way. Nothing you do can stop him if he doesn't want to stop.

What you can do, is get help for you. Learn about codependency. Keep reading SR and posting here.
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Old 01-07-2018, 05:30 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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I still think DontRemember has good advice. I'm sorry, I have to say this is a bad idea. I tried this. Sure my ex agreed to go to counseling, but only because it was a way to control me: I'll go so that the next time she catches me using, she'll forgive me because I'm being "cooperative". Of course he also acted like he felt bad -- what other choice did he have? Acting sorry means you feel sorry for him.

Marriage counseling kept me in the relationship for years longer than was healthy for either of us.

Originally Posted by Angrymarble View Post
He has owned up and I have him making the calls and paperwork for marriage counselor. I don’t think he will manipulate bc he feels bad. But whether he’s done drinking is a different story,
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Old 01-07-2018, 05:35 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by OpheliaKatz View Post
Listen to DontRemember. Don't bother going to marriage counseling with an active addict. Therapy does not work unless the addict is in recovery first. You get into the room with them, you pour your heart out, meanwhile they are sitting there finding new ways to manipulate you because you've shown them your soft underbelly. Eventually the counselor gets manipulated into helping the addict gaslight you... because their manipulation makes YOU seem nuts.

People want reasons for crazy behavior: maybe he was stressed, maybe his life got worse... maybe, maybe, maybe. It doesn't matter what the reason was, there is no reason except "that's what addiction is like, it's progressive." The problem with trying to find reasons for the behavior is that it allows the addict to externalize blame... and allows YOU to do that too. So you think: if only I make his life less stressful by doing xyz, he will drink less. No. It doesn't work that way. Nothing you do can stop him if he doesn't want to stop.

What you can do, is get help for you. Learn about codependency. Keep reading SR and posting here.
Stupid question, when do I know when he’s in recovery? I mean he’s going to all kinds of meetings and not drinking....

Some of why we are going to counseling has nothing to do with alcohol but this weird relationship he has with another woman.
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Old 01-07-2018, 06:09 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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Not a stupid question. Recovery looks like recovery. It's when the addict follows through on actions and not just says they will do things. It can also take up to 12 months for recovery to stick. Some people say if they can make it 6 months sober, they are on the right track, although I do know of people who have relapsed after 6 months.

Regarding the counseling for the relationship with the other woman... can he focus on his recovery if he has to deal with that too (right now)? That's a lot of things to untangle. It is possible that you might be dealing with someone who is simply dishonest: lying about the drug use, this other woman. (I'm making assumptions here based on the limited information you posted, so advice may not be applicable). Bear in mind that I came from a situation where my ex lied and lied until the cows came home and then until they went out to pasture. So therein lie my biases.

Originally Posted by Angrymarble View Post
Stupid question, when do I know when he’s in recovery? I mean he’s going to all kinds of meetings and not drinking....

Some of why we are going to counseling has nothing to do with alcohol but this weird relationship he has with another woman.
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Old 01-07-2018, 06:12 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Angrymarble View Post
Stupid question, when do I know when he’s in recovery? I mean he’s going to all kinds of meetings and not drinking....
I asked the same question myself when I was new here. This thread might be useful to you: https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...f-you-can.html (LONG post but appreciate your help if you can)

It wouldn't hurt to read the whole thing, but the one particular post that I saved to my "Wisdom of SR" folder and have passed on to many other members here is the very first one at the top of page 2.

What I've heard around here is that simply going to meetings does not mean a person is in recovery any more than sitting in a garage means that person is a car. Even the not drinking, while obviously an absolutely necessary part of recovery, is not in and of itself actual recovery. There's a lot more to it than that...
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Old 01-07-2018, 06:32 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by OpheliaKatz View Post
Not a stupid question. Recovery looks like recovery. It's when the addict follows through on actions and not just says they will do things. It can also take up to 12 months for recovery to stick. Some people say if they can make it 6 months sober, they are on the right track, although I do know of people who have relapsed after 6 months.

Regarding the counseling for the relationship with the other woman... can he focus on his recovery if he has to deal with that too (right now)? That's a lot of things to untangle. It is possible that you might be dealing with someone who is simply dishonest: lying about the drug use, this other woman. (I'm making assumptions here based on the limited information you posted, so advice may not be applicable). Bear in mind that I came from a situation where my ex lied and lied until the cows came home and then until they went out to pasture. So therein lie my biases.
I don’t know if he can deal with both but if I’m focused on me and my feelings then I need this. He seems to only lie when intoxicated and that wasn’t all the time. It was to cover up that he had been drinking.
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Old 01-07-2018, 06:46 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Honeypig, that was a good post. Thanks for sharing.

I’m do worry he’s still in denial about his issue and I am concerned that some of this is just to make his case look better in front of the judge for his dui. I’ll have to see in the months to come if he’s still reading and going to meetings @ even when it’s not required. He did get a sponsor yesterday at AA.

I should have no relationship with the sponsor right? My h said if he doesn’t show up for his home meeting the sponsor would follow up. Just wondering if the sponsor should have my number too.
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Old 01-07-2018, 07:02 AM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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In my opinion, AM, no, you should NOT have a relationship w/your AH's sponsor. I think this has been said already, but I'll say it again: HIS recovery is HIS. You really and truly need to keep on your own side of the street.

And bear in mind that your AH's sponsor has no more real control over him than you do. My XAH would call his sponsor every afternoon and then start drinking. Having a sponsor is an important part of recovery, but again, ONLY if the A is actually working with the sponsor, not just saying he has one.
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Old 01-07-2018, 07:38 AM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Angrymarble View Post
He has owned up and I have him making the calls and paperwork for marriage counselor. I don’t think he will manipulate bc he feels bad. But whether he’s done drinking is a different story,
If he is still drinking he will be maniupaultive, he may be on his best behavior to make it look like he is doing what needs to be done....which is manipulative.
And quitting drinking does not equal stopping the manipulation. Unless they get therapy they will remain manipulative. Maybe less so but it will not go away. It took my H a good 7 week of being in rehab when he was finally starting to see some of his behaviors but he still had some degree of manipulation after leaving rehab and the first few weeks of rehab were not fun for me. Habits die hard and this one is a very tough one to break if they're not really committed to wanting to change.
And I think whatever issue brings you to marriage counseling, whether it has anything to do with alcohol or not, if they're not really in recovery it doesn't matter what the issues are because manipulation happens in every aspect of their life. And since they're such masters at it, it is sometimes really hard to see it for what it is. I know that's hard to accept and/or understand and that hats why it works so well for them. I'm 15 months out and it certainly took me a good while to understand and see a lot of this as well.
Long and short of it is, unless he is truly willing to change, nothing you (or anyone else for that matter) do say say will matter and that really sucks. It is so hard for non addicts to understand why addicts can't change their ways even when you would think they're hitting rock bottom. But that's addiction.
You can certainly give marriage counseling a try but I honestly would not expect it to be very helpful. I know it would've been useless for us in the early stages of his recovery. Each person really needs to work on themselves before you can work on the couple. I would not have realized that necessarily either at the beginning but looking back it has become very obvious.
I'm sorry you're in the situation you're in and it is frustrating when you have zero control over what he does or should do, that's the nature of the beast unfortunately. Work on you, that's what you have control over and i promise you it will help.
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Old 01-07-2018, 11:26 AM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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Can you depend on him to help you resolve your feelings right now? Because relationships/marriage counseling is supposed to be a two-way street. He has to be able to fully participate for either of you to benefit from it.... .

If you're going ahead with this, I would advise (based on my experience and therefore may not be applicable to you) to not hold back. If you are angry, be angry. I walked on eggshells for years because I held back.... afraid that if I said how angry I was, it would give him a reason to drug more. I didn't realize that I was not the cause nor could I cure the addiction (that was before I found SR). For me, relationships/marriage counseling had zero effect except to waste my time and money. What really helped was Naranon/SR/and books about codependency. That was help for me and me alone.

Originally Posted by Angrymarble View Post
I don’t know if he can deal with both but if I’m focused on me and my feelings then I need this. He seems to only lie when intoxicated and that wasn’t all the time. It was to cover up that he had been drinking.
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