How will I know things are different?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 15
How will I know things are different?
A little over a month ago my AH totaled his car in a drunk driving accident and got his first OWI. Because of the seriousness of the situation and risk it posed having him home with our three young kids, we agreed it would be best if he went and stayed with family until he can maintain sobriety/progress in his recovery. This was not his first major incident.. I'll spare you the details, but he's attempted to pick up our children from school while intoxicated. After that incident (8 months ago) he did out patient therapy and stayed sober for about a month and then he moved back home.. weeks later he started drinking again.
This time, I said 'enough is enough' and I'm not going to keep putting myself and our kids through this so he's not coming home until I see a "profound change" in him. Saying this actually out more pressure on me to try and monitor/understand his progress and define significant behavior change. I'm sticking with the plan of trying to take it one day at a time and not tell myself that I will for sure let home come home or that I am going to for sure ask for a divorce, but our kids are confused and sad and they ask when he is coming home all of the time. I realize it is naive to put a time limit on it (i.e. Sober for 3 months) and expect everything to be perfect, but I feel a little trapped by this situation. What do I do? What should I continue to tell the kids?
This time, I said 'enough is enough' and I'm not going to keep putting myself and our kids through this so he's not coming home until I see a "profound change" in him. Saying this actually out more pressure on me to try and monitor/understand his progress and define significant behavior change. I'm sticking with the plan of trying to take it one day at a time and not tell myself that I will for sure let home come home or that I am going to for sure ask for a divorce, but our kids are confused and sad and they ask when he is coming home all of the time. I realize it is naive to put a time limit on it (i.e. Sober for 3 months) and expect everything to be perfect, but I feel a little trapped by this situation. What do I do? What should I continue to tell the kids?
Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 1,543
Hi,
I'm not sure I can answer your questions specifically (timeframes, what to tell the children etc) but I would like to provide an overview/opinion.
a) Children need to be protected against their loving, trusting side sometimes. Of course they want to see daddy but they don't realise that daddy could inadvertently kill them one day in a RTA. You're doing a great job in protecting them - well done you. Don't second guess yourself on this when you see your children's doleful, loving eyes when daddy is mentioned. It's too important.
b) Your AH has to be someone that changes - not just someone that doesn't drink. It's hard to describe with accuracy what this looks like in each person but its more than just not picking up alcohol. It's about an addict embracing another life and loving that life MORE than the one they had when they used. If he's "white knuckling"/craving still then he isn't really recovering - he's just not drinking - and that would be a worrying sign that he might relapse.
That's as much as I can muster for advice safely.
Thank you for reaching out to us. I hope someone with more experience than me can help you better/further.
Regards,
Tony
I'm not sure I can answer your questions specifically (timeframes, what to tell the children etc) but I would like to provide an overview/opinion.
a) Children need to be protected against their loving, trusting side sometimes. Of course they want to see daddy but they don't realise that daddy could inadvertently kill them one day in a RTA. You're doing a great job in protecting them - well done you. Don't second guess yourself on this when you see your children's doleful, loving eyes when daddy is mentioned. It's too important.
b) Your AH has to be someone that changes - not just someone that doesn't drink. It's hard to describe with accuracy what this looks like in each person but its more than just not picking up alcohol. It's about an addict embracing another life and loving that life MORE than the one they had when they used. If he's "white knuckling"/craving still then he isn't really recovering - he's just not drinking - and that would be a worrying sign that he might relapse.
That's as much as I can muster for advice safely.
Thank you for reaching out to us. I hope someone with more experience than me can help you better/further.
Regards,
Tony
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: middle of nowhere
Posts: 2,849
Hi Hope,
Have you ever hear of or been to Al Anon? It is a great community for support in these situations. You need a safe place outside of SR to get some support and compassion too.
I hope you can remember, you didn't cause this, you can't control it, and you can't cure it.
I agree with Tony in that you focus has to be the health and safety of you and your children.
You don't owe him anything. You owe yourself some peace of mind and some comfort.
I can't tell you for sure what to say to your kids, that is up to you. You might find some better guidance on the Friends and Family forum. But mostly I would try to be honest in a way that they understand. The main refrain when I was at my worst, was that "mommy isn't well, she needs to go to the dr to get better so will be away for a while"
I hope you have some friends and family to lean on for support? In the meantime SR is open 24/7.
Have you ever hear of or been to Al Anon? It is a great community for support in these situations. You need a safe place outside of SR to get some support and compassion too.
I hope you can remember, you didn't cause this, you can't control it, and you can't cure it.
I agree with Tony in that you focus has to be the health and safety of you and your children.
You don't owe him anything. You owe yourself some peace of mind and some comfort.
I can't tell you for sure what to say to your kids, that is up to you. You might find some better guidance on the Friends and Family forum. But mostly I would try to be honest in a way that they understand. The main refrain when I was at my worst, was that "mommy isn't well, she needs to go to the dr to get better so will be away for a while"
I hope you have some friends and family to lean on for support? In the meantime SR is open 24/7.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
Hi, Hope4chng.
Welcome to SR.
Sorry for your situation, but glad you found us.
I realize that there are children involved here, and that complicates interactions going forward with your spouse .
But I would try to take a step back and let him work his recovery on his own.
There should be no pressure on you to determine that he is sober enough to come home.
His recovery will take as long as it takes.
I feel from your post that you are feeling some push from kids, family, and spouse as to “when daddy can come home.”
Stay strong. You are doing the right thing.
Only time will tell as to whether your spouse is truly in recovery or just not drinking.
They are two different things.
Peace.
Welcome to SR.
Sorry for your situation, but glad you found us.
I realize that there are children involved here, and that complicates interactions going forward with your spouse .
But I would try to take a step back and let him work his recovery on his own.
There should be no pressure on you to determine that he is sober enough to come home.
His recovery will take as long as it takes.
I feel from your post that you are feeling some push from kids, family, and spouse as to “when daddy can come home.”
Stay strong. You are doing the right thing.
Only time will tell as to whether your spouse is truly in recovery or just not drinking.
They are two different things.
Peace.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Hope4......please go to the thread started by spedteach--"so, today"....and read my post to her, in that thread....I think it would apply to you, right now, as well....
I think it is sooo important to educate oneself as to the true nature of this disease...and most people don't really know....unless they have had a good reason to learn about it...
Here is what I su ggest for you....
Number one----I am giving you the following link to our extensive library of excellent articles on alcoholism and the effects on the loved ones....I hope you will take the time to read through all of them...there are dozens and dozens of them.....
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...c-reading.html (Classic Reading)
Number two.....
You might benefit from going to a few open AA meetings, yourself....they are the ones that are marked "open", when you google the schedule of meetings.
You don't have to be an alcoholic to attend those....
You can find an alcoholism counselor that is a recovering alcoholic....and have a few meetings with them...one or two...and ask them to fill you in as to what real recovery takes and looks like.....
I think it is sooo important to educate oneself as to the true nature of this disease...and most people don't really know....unless they have had a good reason to learn about it...
Here is what I su ggest for you....
Number one----I am giving you the following link to our extensive library of excellent articles on alcoholism and the effects on the loved ones....I hope you will take the time to read through all of them...there are dozens and dozens of them.....
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...c-reading.html (Classic Reading)
Number two.....
You might benefit from going to a few open AA meetings, yourself....they are the ones that are marked "open", when you google the schedule of meetings.
You don't have to be an alcoholic to attend those....
You can find an alcoholism counselor that is a recovering alcoholic....and have a few meetings with them...one or two...and ask them to fill you in as to what real recovery takes and looks like.....
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
After that incident (8 months ago) he did out patient therapy and stayed sober for about a month and then he moved back home.. weeks later he started drinking again.
I think your best tool right now is “knowledge, knowledge about the disease and typical addict behaviors. Knowledge about “codependency” and typical codependent behaviors.
As said around here – recovery looks like recovery. There is no more manipulation, lying, emotional guilt as a weapon. They take responsibility for their actions and they understand the consequences for that.
What recovery does not look like it………….
Begging and manipulating to come home to get right back into their “normal” life, which eventually will included alcohol if they are not working a strong recovery program. You have already witnessed that once, your own recovery is to not allow that to happen again.
How will I know things are different?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
since your AH has not only jeopardized himself and others in collecting a DWI but even more troubling went to the children's school DRUNK and attempted to pick them up, and all this happening within an 8 month span, i'd say he's going to need a LONG TIME sober to prove he's actually serious about it. to put it simply, he cannot and should not be trusted - he violated the most important pact there is, that between parent and child.
i'm not sure of your kid's ages, but honesty at the age appropriate level is always the best route. you can say dad is sick, or if old enough, dad needs to sort out his drinking, and it's best he reside elsewhere so he has the best chance to get better. and there is no time limit on how long it might take him to get well.
i'm not sure of your kid's ages, but honesty at the age appropriate level is always the best route. you can say dad is sick, or if old enough, dad needs to sort out his drinking, and it's best he reside elsewhere so he has the best chance to get better. and there is no time limit on how long it might take him to get well.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,144
Three months sober is not long enough for committed change. I became eager as I seen a difference but it wasn't a sustainable difference.
What do you want in relationship? Do you see this sustained in him after a long soberity.
What do you want him to admit to you? Does he do it with without prompting? Is it genuine or manipulation? Is it badgering? What happens when you express a difference?
Is he really the person you hoped for or are you constantly lowering the bar on your dreams?
What will you feel, think, do when he drinks again? Relapse is a very likely possibiilty?
Questions to ask yourself for your recovery.
What do you want in relationship? Do you see this sustained in him after a long soberity.
What do you want him to admit to you? Does he do it with without prompting? Is it genuine or manipulation? Is it badgering? What happens when you express a difference?
Is he really the person you hoped for or are you constantly lowering the bar on your dreams?
What will you feel, think, do when he drinks again? Relapse is a very likely possibiilty?
Questions to ask yourself for your recovery.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
My experience with my father was it was a solid year before he was really in the swing of recovery - where it was clear he was a changed man. How could I tell? Because he was a changed man! It's undeniable when you see it, the most striking quality being honesty about everything.
I have one friend in particular I'm thinking of who was really brought low and an absolute mess before finally sticking with AA - he was probably a year or TWO into his recovery before I noticed that same bright, present difference in him.
I have one brother who achieved the beginnings of that change one year, and I was really excited (B when will you learn?? LOL), and after about 18 months of sobriety he was back down the black hole.
This is why I find AlAnon so helpful. It gets me back into the one day at a time mindset. It gives me peace of mind to work my own program, so I don't have to focus on my brothers' misery and ups and downs and the drink.
I do my own thing to bring myself serenity - I try not to get too excited by anyone's attempts at sobriety, I am supportive, but it's just not up to me! More is always revealed and it's best if I maintain my own level thinking and not get attached to outcomes that depend on an alcoholic's behavior.
Peace,
B.
I have one friend in particular I'm thinking of who was really brought low and an absolute mess before finally sticking with AA - he was probably a year or TWO into his recovery before I noticed that same bright, present difference in him.
I have one brother who achieved the beginnings of that change one year, and I was really excited (B when will you learn?? LOL), and after about 18 months of sobriety he was back down the black hole.
This is why I find AlAnon so helpful. It gets me back into the one day at a time mindset. It gives me peace of mind to work my own program, so I don't have to focus on my brothers' misery and ups and downs and the drink.
I do my own thing to bring myself serenity - I try not to get too excited by anyone's attempts at sobriety, I am supportive, but it's just not up to me! More is always revealed and it's best if I maintain my own level thinking and not get attached to outcomes that depend on an alcoholic's behavior.
Peace,
B.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 356
My H had quit for a year (he had quit many times before but a year was the longest ever. But he was just a dry drunk. He was still the same person but minus the alcohol which was still pretty miserable for all involved. Then he started drinking again and it got to the point where I didn't trust him with our kid anymore. One time i actually drove to the airport (which I never do when we travel together) "because he just got a brand new truck)". Truth was he had been drinking that morning. After one year things had really spun out of control and I finally couldn't take it anymore and confronted him. This time I was ready to leave but wanted to give him one more chance. He ended up going to rehab and had been 15 months sober. He has changed a lot (it took 7 weeks of rehab before he finally started seeing some of his ways, he was there for 90 days) even looking at a year ago to now. I don't think he would've been able to do that without rehab (he was 40+year drinker ) and in fact had he left rehab after 30 days things would not have been good at all yet. (Due to his job he is very closely monitored and the 5 year success rate is very high for that)
I guess what I'm saying is that without treatment his chances of staying sober are very small. My H had stopped many times over the years. He had no trouble stopping, he just couldn't stay sober for very long. And it will get worse over time. I'm actually surprised it took my H that long to finally cross that line where something had to happen. I'm very thankful that he never got caught drinking and driving but it could've easily happened. It got to the point that I would always leave my kiddo with a friend if I had stuff going on because I couldn't trust him with her.
Permanent sobriety is never a guarantee obviously but of he is not doing any kind of treatment chances are very small that he will stay sober. Alcohol is only part of the problem. The underlying psych issues are the bigger issue and until he has those sorted out and dealt with iphebwill likely continue to go back to drinking as a coping skill.
Take care of you and the kids and do what you have to do to keep you all safe. You can't make him quit but you don't have to put up with his drinking either. You do what you need to do for you and the kids. How old are they? You may need to tell them something. If he had a DUI I'm assuming it is somewhat common knowledge that he has a problem (my H is was a secret because he hid it so well and that made it very hard ). My kid was 6.5 when he went to rehab and initially told her just that daddy had a boo boo in his stomach that needed special hospital care (we had no time to prepare for that since he was ordered rehab and went a day later ). After a couple of months in rehab I finally told her that daddy has the alcohol disease that makes it so that he has no control over his drinking like other people do and that's why he needed special help. I got a couple of books and it was enough for her to understand what was going on, later she did a program at Betty ford that was very helpful as well.
Think of you and the kids first because that's what you have control over. You have no control what he does with his drinking. I would also not let him see the kids unsupervised at all until he starts getting serious about taking care of his problem. That may be the kick in the butt that he needs but it may not be enough of an incentive. Whatever "threats" or demand you make, be ready to follow through with them. It may be a wake up call for him but don't be surprised if it is not.
Hang in there and take care of yourself and your kids
I guess what I'm saying is that without treatment his chances of staying sober are very small. My H had stopped many times over the years. He had no trouble stopping, he just couldn't stay sober for very long. And it will get worse over time. I'm actually surprised it took my H that long to finally cross that line where something had to happen. I'm very thankful that he never got caught drinking and driving but it could've easily happened. It got to the point that I would always leave my kiddo with a friend if I had stuff going on because I couldn't trust him with her.
Permanent sobriety is never a guarantee obviously but of he is not doing any kind of treatment chances are very small that he will stay sober. Alcohol is only part of the problem. The underlying psych issues are the bigger issue and until he has those sorted out and dealt with iphebwill likely continue to go back to drinking as a coping skill.
Take care of you and the kids and do what you have to do to keep you all safe. You can't make him quit but you don't have to put up with his drinking either. You do what you need to do for you and the kids. How old are they? You may need to tell them something. If he had a DUI I'm assuming it is somewhat common knowledge that he has a problem (my H is was a secret because he hid it so well and that made it very hard ). My kid was 6.5 when he went to rehab and initially told her just that daddy had a boo boo in his stomach that needed special hospital care (we had no time to prepare for that since he was ordered rehab and went a day later ). After a couple of months in rehab I finally told her that daddy has the alcohol disease that makes it so that he has no control over his drinking like other people do and that's why he needed special help. I got a couple of books and it was enough for her to understand what was going on, later she did a program at Betty ford that was very helpful as well.
Think of you and the kids first because that's what you have control over. You have no control what he does with his drinking. I would also not let him see the kids unsupervised at all until he starts getting serious about taking care of his problem. That may be the kick in the butt that he needs but it may not be enough of an incentive. Whatever "threats" or demand you make, be ready to follow through with them. It may be a wake up call for him but don't be surprised if it is not.
Hang in there and take care of yourself and your kids
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Western US
Posts: 9,003
A belated welcome to you Hope4chng. It does sound like you have been through the wringer. I have wondered if it is harder when there actually is some hope for the alcoholic so you have to live in limbo.
I hope you can find a supportive Alanon group although they aren't for everyone.
Let us know how you get on.
Hugs.
I hope you can find a supportive Alanon group although they aren't for everyone.
Let us know how you get on.
Hugs.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 15
When you begin your own recovery and realize you are what needs to be different.[/QUOTE]
This stung. But I get it.. I keep waiting for him to get sober and for him to change but I need to change my expectations and change how I live my life. I started reading Codependent No More and it has been extremely eye opening.. I didn't even realize I had an issue. But I know now and I just need to keep focusing on me and my kids.
This stung. But I get it.. I keep waiting for him to get sober and for him to change but I need to change my expectations and change how I live my life. I started reading Codependent No More and it has been extremely eye opening.. I didn't even realize I had an issue. But I know now and I just need to keep focusing on me and my kids.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 15
Originally Posted by Bekindalways 
A belated welcome to you Hope4chng. It does sound like you have been through the wringer. I have wondered if it is harder when there actually is some hope for the alcoholic so you have to live in limbo.
I hope you can find a supportive Alanon group although they aren't for everyone.
Let us know how you get on.
Hugs.
I hope you can find a supportive Alanon group although they aren't for everyone.
Let us know how you get on.
Hugs.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Recovery....looks like recovery. You will know.
Now, there will always be the prospect of relapse. My XAH relapsed after an entire year sober. You will read on the forums about people who have relapsed after years of being sober. Only you can decide if you can live with knowing that. It's not to say it will happen, but it could. For myself, after that switch has switched in my head, I could definitely not deal with that. However, my XAH had many issues, not just drinking.
Big hugs to you. You are not alone!
Now, there will always be the prospect of relapse. My XAH relapsed after an entire year sober. You will read on the forums about people who have relapsed after years of being sober. Only you can decide if you can live with knowing that. It's not to say it will happen, but it could. For myself, after that switch has switched in my head, I could definitely not deal with that. However, my XAH had many issues, not just drinking.
Big hugs to you. You are not alone!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 994
My exah never embraced true recovery despite me booting him out to "sort himself out" 4 times during our marriage. He came back each time penitent and booze free except he wasn't lol Even when I believed he was sober it turned out he wasn't. When I actually met a truly recovered alcoholic the difference between them was astounding. It might help you to see what you are looking for if you meet some recovered alcoholics and those who have definitely got long term sobriety under their belts. Once you see how they are and how they live you will never mistake dry drunk or not actually sober but pretending to be again. It was an epiphany for me.
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