Soulful

The thing is it's not about him. It's about YOU and your kids. Whatever he does or doesn't do, what are YOUR boundaries?

What are you willing to accept and what are you willing not to? What are YOUR values?
And if he crosses your boundaries, are you committed and ready to walk away? YOU have to stay true to YOURSELF.

AnvilheadII

I want my children to know someday that their dad is an alcoholic - I just don’t think it’s going to happen right now.

why not?

there are a bunch of ACOAs here and i bet if you took a pole, most if not all would say they WISHED someone had respected their intelligence and experience enough to be HONEST and TELL them what was going on. most feel they were somehow at fault. or responsible...and therefore try to DO better, BE better and be the savior of the family. or withdraw and act out, trying to get SOME of the attention that is devoted to the addict. they likely wish someone had told them YES, what you SEE is REAL, what you think you KNOW is REAL. there IS something wrong with dad......or mom........or uncle clarence.

children know at their most primal level that they are 100% dependent on the adults. their very survival depends on them. if one or both parents are acting out and being UN-parental, or fighting again in the other room, they know their survival is at risk. when dad is passed out on the couch, he is not THERE for them.

there's a very good reason why there is an Ala-teen program.

dandylion

Angrymarble.....you would be absolutely shocked if you knew what 12yr. olds know, these days.....(8 yr. olds, too).....
Parents consistently underestimate how much their children know...even from a very early age....

TheToddman

My personal experience is pretty close to this (your husband) and can say that for several years I thought intensive outpatient was the way to go. I was concerned about my reputation, job, etc and also how my children would perceive this. After numerous friends, family and counselors all recommended rehab my wife and I finally acquiesced; we had reached the breaking point (actually beyond it) and in retrospect it was miraculous. I've been sober for over four months and haven't had a craving to speak of. I honestly can't say I've even entertained the thought of it. It's an investment that will pay HUGE dividends. My children were told when I was already admitted and every single one of them were beaming with pride and support for their dad. They understood the implications of the alternative. There are facilities that do very thorough 30-day stays that take most major insurance and have 'scholarships' to defray cost.

Hope this helps...please stay strong.

T.

Soulful

and of course, this actually allows you to learn communication skills. I know for myself, I had to really work very hard at improving my communication skills with my 5-year old, especially when he is constantly asking about his "tata" and why he no longer lives with us.
And of course the: "why are you always mad at him mama, don't be mad at him, let him live with us".

I find this GREAT challenge to be a blessing, it allows me to be a better person, to be true with my son and to navigate this mess and figure out and find a healthy way for my AH to see his son.

Sleepyhollo

I will tell you that my kid (who was 6 at the time) and my niece (17) and my step daughter (25) were absolutely clueless and completely shocked (as was everyone else). My H would not drink in front of anyone at home (at parties yes). He has a demanding job with irregular and unpredictable hours. He hated his job, was a major insomniac and always tired and stressed and grumpy. So that's what it was chalked up to. Once I confronted him I told him he had to tell people and it could no longer be a secret. Initially we did not tell our daughter. But then he got sent to rehab and we had to say something. Since that came out of th blue and had no time to prepare. I have a friend who is a shrink who works with a pediatric shrink and he had recommended to just say that daddy had belly problems and had to go to a special hospital for that. I we got to go visit after 1 or 2 weeks and I figured she would start asking question as it looks nothing like a hospital . But she never did. Then he had to stay for 90 days and she still didn't ask question.s. Finally the week before Xmas (he got to spend two days at home for Xmas)I ended up telling her the exact reason. I found a couple of good books (unfortunately not in English so I can't recommend ) that talked about how daddy has the alcohol disease and that he had no control over it. The other was a book that never mentioned alcohol ok but talked about the potion that made all the adults happy initially but then they needed more and more to be happy but it didn't make them stay happy. Once the man that sold the potion was chased out of time the adult went back to normal. She asked a few questions but not too much. It was nice that she finally knew because she needed to know what was going on. If you are in the process of potentially divorcing I think they need to know. If you present it as it is a disease and daddy cannot control his drinking once he starts it should be less scary than just saying he is an addict. Because it is a disease.
In another thread (which I think was started by you as well) i recommended Betty ford children's program and the story about Beamer that explains it very well and in a non scary way. If you're at all near where they have the Betty ford children's program (TX, CO and CA I believe ) check it out. It is awesome. My kid is 7 and it was nice for her to meet other kids in the same situation. I have not forbidden her tot all to her friends about it but they don't know because she has not wanted to tell them.
I think even if he does outpatient only I think they should know wat daddy has a disease and that he needs help to get better. It is probably better than leaving them in the dark and letting their mind wander and potentially coming up with their own conclusions threat may be much scarier. You don't need to make him out like a bad guy. Just state the facts and keep it simple.
If your H drank in front of the kids they may know more than you think. And like with my H when the secret is out and people know people were actually pretty understanding and it made him be more accountable . Not a guarantee he will stay clean but more of a chance than when no one knows about it.

Sleepyhollo

My husband was gone for 90 days and only my close friends knew (and his partners at work sine he was gone for 3 months ) and then whomever he chose to tell and write letters to. Thing is, he was never really around for a lot of functions at school and at friends that no one thought much of it when he wasn't around. They just assumed he was on call/at work. I was actually quite surprised how easy it was because essentially my life didn't really change much as far as taking care of my kid (which I pretty much do by myself anyway) and going to school events or friends parties/kid birthday parties. I really wasnt necessarily actively hiding it but I guess I also didn't feel like I should be telling everyone that isn't necessarily a close friend.
It is sort of too bad their is such a stigma with addiction. I have a lot more respect for someone that choses to to to rehab and be open about it ( because I also think that then they are being very honest with themselves) then someone secretly trying to kick it because I think the latter just isn't really ready to give it up (my H was the role model for that until he went to rehab)

Angrymarble

Sleepyhollo, I’m the parent at everything too so yes no one would notice much. On Xmas he went to an AA meeting and the kids never knew he left!

Sleepyhollo

While he was in rehab we visited once a week. I didn't let her talk on the phone with him because i really didn't feel that was in her best interest. She loves her dad to pieces but is so used to him not being around much due to work and addiction that she does just fine not talking to him. She is excited to talk to him when we're gone without him but it's not like she is asking to talk to him if I didn't offer. We do a lot of stuff just the two of us and she rarely questions why he isn't there. She is just so used to him not going to a lot of things that even now that he is sober she still doesn't question it.

Ladybird579

My exah has done inpatient extensively over many months. His problem was as soon as he finished treatment ( or stormed out as I found he'd had done many times) he had no coping skills to deal with normal life. Inpatient only works if he acquires the skills to deal with normal life on the "outside" My exah never did.

atalose

It’s like you are juggling HIS recovery options, his lawyer options and your future and not trying to drop anything on the children in order to save them from the reality in their lives. And I’m sure you may feel that as long as you can continue the juggle, buy enough time for his recovery then everything will be just fine. Reality with an alcoholic does not happen that way.

Reality for the alcoholic right now today is the DUI and what can he do in order to minimize that damage right now. Go to a few AA meetings, talk the talk of wanting recovery, visit a number of attorneys and pick which one might bring him the least amount of damage for the poor choices he has made.

Often part of minimizing that damage is to jump into some kind of recovery so that when they do go before a judge they can say, see I am acknowledging I have an issue and I am doing something about it. Also very often when the judge does take away their driver’s license for a number of months or a year or what every your state penalty is, they use the best coping skill they know, they drink. And that’s when it becomes very clear what their “idea” of recovery was all about, the DUI not the disease.

Beyond the DUI and the penalties from that, you should be thinking about your own recovery, getting yourself help in addressing the situation and your future life living with an alcoholic. Therapy, al-anon, researching as much as you can about alcoholism and alcoholic behaviors and how living with an alcoholic affects the entire family. Learning to build your own future independent of him, financially, socially. Like could you financially support your family should he lose his job?

LvWrAM123

My husband did intensive OP (3 hours each weekday night for 6 weeks. He did weekly after are group plus individual. Stayed sober 5 months. Added pot back in for about a year, then started sneaking alcohol for several months and had a spectacular relapse that nearly cost the marriage. From there, his counselor recommended inpatient, which he agreed he needed. He managed to take "medical leave" without divulging details to his employer. He did 28 days of IP, followed by 90 AA mtgs in 90 days, individual, and couples counseling. He is 4+ years in recovery since IP. At first he did AA every weekday morning, then for 4 years, every MWF. Since his 4 year anniversary, he goes every Monday and Friday morning to the 6:30am AA.

For my husband anyway, it was a process. He wasn't ready for IP and AA at the time he knew he needed help, so for him, OP was What he was ready for and a good start.

Kids were 4 and 8 when he went to OP. They saw him drink beer, but didn't see him drunk. They definitely niticed he was gone every night during OP. They never saw him drink after that, not even during relapse. We had to explain his not being home for IP-didn't use the words addict/alcoholic at the time. He sat them down and explained he had grown up problems and needed help and had been making bad choices and wanted to make better choices for him and them and us, and he would miss them, and how it is impt to ask for help, etc. he has spoken to them since about addiction (14 and 11 now).

I'm really proud of him and happy he has finally succeeded. Truely there was nothing I could do to make him change (trust me, I tried). He had to want it and he has to work his program, and make choices in his best interest, every single day. He was SO resistant to AA, and it wasn't part of his OP, but it was part of his IP. He would say now that after OP he was "sober" but never in recovery, and that AA was pretty instrumental in his recovery. He sees "love" and "the group" as his higher power.

I kind of think that sometimes quitting takes practice. Do I wish it would have "stuck" the first time around, sure, but I also don't nexessisary know if OP or IP the first time would have made the difference. It really comes down more to him and where he is at and how ready he is to recover. They say "It works if you work it" because it's true.

Best of luck to you and your family OP.

PS-Their addiction/alcoholism infects their partner too. I hated the concept that I was "codependent"-that I had to go to therapy to get help for something that "he caused", but I had to do a whole lot of work on my own self too. With hard work, we've each gotten better individually and so much stronger as a couple and as a family than I ever believed possible. It's been hard fought, but worth it.

Sleepyhollo

If my H had stayed for only 30 days he definitely would not have been ready for normal life on the outiside. It took 7 weeks before he finally started to get some his ways. And even though he was very upset when they sent him to rehab I think he finally realized that that is what he really needed (although he was pissed when they made him stay for 90 but then got over it because he didn't really have a choice if he didn't want to lose his job/career). I imagine that some people in rehab probably are still going to the motions to make everyone happy and making them believe that they're really motivated to stay clean.
My SIL went to rehab for drugs and after 30 days she bailed because they were starting to figure her out. She really only went because her parents wanted her to but I do t really feel like she really wanted to get clean.
Someone in my H profession went to rehab for 90 days and then on then on the drive home he stopped and got drunk. He did finally succeed in getting sober though
It is just really hard to understand for non addicts that people can do stuff like that.

Sleepyhollo

I like how you handled that with your kiddos

I actually do think it is important that kids know to some degree what is going on, especially for preteen and teenage kids. Because growing up in an alcoholic home makes them prone to certain behaviors/habits that can set them up for problems as well. During family week in rehab thy talked about the say no to drug campaign that they do at school and they said that that is actually pretty useless for kids that are predisposed to addiction. They said the single best predictor for kids to not end up becoming addicts is that they learn from early on to talk about their feelings whatever they may be. To illustrate this they used a backpack full of rocks (each rock had some emotion on it). And first they would fill the back pack up with more rocks to,illustrate that it is really hard to carry a heavy backpack and do your daily activities (work sports etc), and the more rocks go in the heavier and more difficult it gets. Then when you start talking about feelings and what's bothering you the backpack becomes lighter and you can start functioning better. It seems so simple but it makand s a lot of sense. I think when kids grow up in an alcoholic home they start picking up on codpendent type issues and keeping things bottled up inside because that's what the parents do after all. And so it really benefits them in the long run to b somewhat involved in what's goi g on (provided that both A and codependent get help to improve themselves). Kids will know something is up and if they can't ask questions they will come up with their own reality.


And I hear you on the PS part. I still have a lot of resentment about what he has done but also what I did or didn't do. Like what didn't I see it for what it was early on (he was very functional and hid it well from everyone), why did I play his games and felt like I need to protect him by hiding it from everyone as well and always covering for him. Why did I put up with it for as long a si did. I'm glad you guys we're able to make it work out in the end. We're a year out and I struggle with my own feelings. He has done everything I wanted him to do (he really has changed for the better) and now I'm the problem with not being able to move forward. I guess years of cycling through drinking and stopping etc takes a toll on people. I know there is nothing that I could've done to make it happen sooner but I think it is still really hard to understand for him how it has affected me (in addditon to some stuff that happened before I met him, mainly issues with my family or origin) and why I can't jut move forward now that he has changed for the better. But feelings are hard to force.

Angrymarble

I think about the job thing all the time. No I can’t support us in the manner we have become accustomed. It’s stressful to think I’d move and my kids would go to new schools. I have ocd so my mind is going 100 miles a minute making plans.

Angrymarble

It is really hard to do the work when you work full time and have 3 kids! Excuses I know... but yes I’m infected for sure.

Soulful

I take care of my son by myself and I have 4 businesses along with 15 employees and I travel every 3 weeks. I think you have to trust yourself more, I believe in you! You can totally do it!

dandylion

I had 3 young children, also, and a full time job.....with one still in diapers....
You can do it....millions of women and men do.......

ladyscribbler

I wish that when I was 8 or 12 or any age old enough to understand someone would have sat me down and explained the disease of alcoholism in an honest, non-judgmental way. Instead my brother and I were left to navigate the minefield of an alcoholic home without any real understanding of what was happening.

Your husband is going to do what he's going to do, and whatever road he ultimately takes, the children have already been impacted in ways that might not manifest themselves for years. Let your husband do this on his own; he will if he's sincere about wanting recovery. Focus on healing for yourself and your children, whether the alcoholic is still drinking or not.

Eddiebuckle

That last sentence is spot on. I admitted myself into a six week rehab, and yet I struggled with allowing my status to be known once I was discharged. My first (and almost never) AA meeting, I was very concerned about who might see me enter the building. AA's first step says "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol...." It took me a while to understand that admitting to myself and acceptance of my alcoholism was the most crucial part of that step. I now see my alcoholism as no different than my eye color - it is a part of me that simply is.

Until the OP's husband is ready to face this reality, the odds are unfortunately not very good. Going to rehab as a way of shutting down the argument about one's drinking is pretty common. It's what happens after discharge that makes or breaks the deal. If the alcoholic/addict is willing to accept their disease and enthusiastically pursues sobriety, recovery is possible. Otherwise if nothing changes, nothing changes and its likely just a matter of when the façade crumbles, not if.