Denial is such a horrible monster
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Join Date: Aug 2015
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Denial is such a horrible monster
I don't know what's worse, really. His addiction issues or his denial about it.
I left the home, last night was the first night I slept outside the home. I didn't sleep well, but I knew that would happen since it wasn't easy what I did.
I left him a "good bye note on the keyboard before I left.
<AH>
I love you and I am concerned for your health and safety, as well as mine and our son's.
In the last year, I observed the following:
- your coughing and asthma attacks have increased, stuffy and nose bleeds, dilated pupils, irritability, raging and erratic behaviour
- driving under the influence of drugs/alcohol and engaging in risky, secretive and unfaithful behaviour
- absent from your home, marriage and responsibilities by always being at your friend's house, the casino, strip joint, and other establishments
I suggested rehab to address your drugs, alcohol and sex addiction.
Your behaviour and choices are no longer acceptable to me. I decided to move out until Dec 14th, when you leave for To... and you no longer welcomed back in the apartment."
He frantically texted me things like:
"I am not going strip joint or I am not a sex addict, I don't know why you would say things like that"
"If you are with someone else just tell me or you want to make things work and I will get some help when I am in To..."
"I thought we would work things out, I am not the horrible monster you make me to be"
"Sorry if I was stressed out of anything, probably from not smoking and stuff"
"If we can't work this out let me speed up my search but you don't have to stay at the hotel, I am not a monster"
"I don't care about my dumb friend or casino, I love you and our son"
I never responded and I put him on ignore eventually, but I let him send me enough messages for me to see how lost he truly is. I mean, I KNOW everything. Where is his integrity?
It's hurting me to see that even now, he will continue to deny. I mean... I FRIGGIN KNOW. Why can't he have a seed of morals left and at least just admit to his problems? If he didn't care about his "dumb" friends or casino, he certainly spent a hell of a lot of time with them, more than with us. He never admitted to cheating, or going strip joint. I was so tempted to send him all the screenshots of his conversations, but I held back. He will turn it around and make it about me invading his privacy anyways and being the bad guy "always snooping on him". He has a way of turning the situation around and deflecting it from the reality.
In the verge of divorce, he is still denying, eventhough I KNOW. Deep down inside, why can't he listen to that voice and just have integrity and confess at least?
I left the home, last night was the first night I slept outside the home. I didn't sleep well, but I knew that would happen since it wasn't easy what I did.
I left him a "good bye note on the keyboard before I left.
<AH>
I love you and I am concerned for your health and safety, as well as mine and our son's.
In the last year, I observed the following:
- your coughing and asthma attacks have increased, stuffy and nose bleeds, dilated pupils, irritability, raging and erratic behaviour
- driving under the influence of drugs/alcohol and engaging in risky, secretive and unfaithful behaviour
- absent from your home, marriage and responsibilities by always being at your friend's house, the casino, strip joint, and other establishments
I suggested rehab to address your drugs, alcohol and sex addiction.
Your behaviour and choices are no longer acceptable to me. I decided to move out until Dec 14th, when you leave for To... and you no longer welcomed back in the apartment."
He frantically texted me things like:
"I am not going strip joint or I am not a sex addict, I don't know why you would say things like that"
"If you are with someone else just tell me or you want to make things work and I will get some help when I am in To..."
"I thought we would work things out, I am not the horrible monster you make me to be"
"Sorry if I was stressed out of anything, probably from not smoking and stuff"
"If we can't work this out let me speed up my search but you don't have to stay at the hotel, I am not a monster"
"I don't care about my dumb friend or casino, I love you and our son"
I never responded and I put him on ignore eventually, but I let him send me enough messages for me to see how lost he truly is. I mean, I KNOW everything. Where is his integrity?
It's hurting me to see that even now, he will continue to deny. I mean... I FRIGGIN KNOW. Why can't he have a seed of morals left and at least just admit to his problems? If he didn't care about his "dumb" friends or casino, he certainly spent a hell of a lot of time with them, more than with us. He never admitted to cheating, or going strip joint. I was so tempted to send him all the screenshots of his conversations, but I held back. He will turn it around and make it about me invading his privacy anyways and being the bad guy "always snooping on him". He has a way of turning the situation around and deflecting it from the reality.
In the verge of divorce, he is still denying, eventhough I KNOW. Deep down inside, why can't he listen to that voice and just have integrity and confess at least?
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
After I left my ex invented a whole elaborate narrative about why. Of course it had nothing to do with his blackout drinking or abusive behavior. It was because I got into a fight with his mom and I was leaving him for someone else and I was crazy. The specific story changed, but the fact that it was everyone's fault but his was the constant theme.
It was incredibly hurtful, and frankly enraging. But I had to find a way to let go of that. In a weird way his attitude helped me. It was obvious he had no intention of doing anything except what he'd been doing all along. I think maybe even a glimmer of awareness from him would have kept me stuck longer.
Of course now I can't imagine going back to that life. It was pretty awful. I was just so mired in my own denial that I couldn't see just how bad it was.
Sending you a
It was incredibly hurtful, and frankly enraging. But I had to find a way to let go of that. In a weird way his attitude helped me. It was obvious he had no intention of doing anything except what he'd been doing all along. I think maybe even a glimmer of awareness from him would have kept me stuck longer.
Of course now I can't imagine going back to that life. It was pretty awful. I was just so mired in my own denial that I couldn't see just how bad it was.
Sending you a
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I am glad you got out and are giving yourself some space from this. I think it's well needed. I am also glad you are wise enough not to engage.
Sending you big hugs. I wish I knew the answers to WHY. It's hard to wrap your mind around that you never understand it, and never will. I am just thankful my mind does not work that way and that I cannot understand it I guess.
Sending you big hugs. I wish I knew the answers to WHY. It's hard to wrap your mind around that you never understand it, and never will. I am just thankful my mind does not work that way and that I cannot understand it I guess.
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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I am sorry you had to go through that, Soulful. For me, looking for and expecting rational, logical thought processes and behaviors from my stepson became a losing proposition.
I learned to be comfortable in what I knew, and the decisions that the late Mr. Seren and I made for our own healthy future. My stepson made elaborate stories up, said he was going to report his father to our Priest (ha!), you name it. All because we chose not to have his ongoing chaos and drama right at our doorstep. We couldn't take it anymore, and we turned him loose to live his own life.
He still makes poor decisions, but they are his to make. Anything he says about me now? Well, I just shrug--"whatever, dude...and by the way, I love you!"
I learned to be comfortable in what I knew, and the decisions that the late Mr. Seren and I made for our own healthy future. My stepson made elaborate stories up, said he was going to report his father to our Priest (ha!), you name it. All because we chose not to have his ongoing chaos and drama right at our doorstep. We couldn't take it anymore, and we turned him loose to live his own life.
He still makes poor decisions, but they are his to make. Anything he says about me now? Well, I just shrug--"whatever, dude...and by the way, I love you!"
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 685
If he admits the truth it makes him responsible for addressing it, that he's done these awful things, that he has accountability, that he should knock it the f off.
As long as he keeps denying, well, then he does not have to change. Then he's still a great guy and you just have an overactive imagination and/or another man in your life.
He wants to believe he can create reality by speaking it or not speaking it. "That's my story and I'm sticking to it."
You know what's real. I would not bother showing him screen shots or other proof. What will it accomplish? He can claim it's "fake news" <eye roll>.
As long as he keeps denying, well, then he does not have to change. Then he's still a great guy and you just have an overactive imagination and/or another man in your life.
He wants to believe he can create reality by speaking it or not speaking it. "That's my story and I'm sticking to it."
You know what's real. I would not bother showing him screen shots or other proof. What will it accomplish? He can claim it's "fake news" <eye roll>.
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 6,902
I'm from the alcoholic side of the fence and 3 years 8 months sober, working a program of recovery.
I always say that alcohol steals different things from all of us alcoholics, but the one thing it rips away from every single one of us is our integrity. It removes our capacity to be honest, not only with others, but with ourselves (like you say - denial). We get so we don't know the true from the false and get completely caught up in our own webs of deceit.
I am so grateful I got sober and worked the 12-step recovery program. It saved me. Perhaps not physically, but morally and emotionally.
I hope that you leaving as you have will help your husband to see just how far he's let things slide, and get to that stage where he is desperate enough to get better. In the meantime, I pray for happier times for you and your child.
BB
I always say that alcohol steals different things from all of us alcoholics, but the one thing it rips away from every single one of us is our integrity. It removes our capacity to be honest, not only with others, but with ourselves (like you say - denial). We get so we don't know the true from the false and get completely caught up in our own webs of deceit.
I am so grateful I got sober and worked the 12-step recovery program. It saved me. Perhaps not physically, but morally and emotionally.
I hope that you leaving as you have will help your husband to see just how far he's let things slide, and get to that stage where he is desperate enough to get better. In the meantime, I pray for happier times for you and your child.
BB
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Posts: 3,699
Hang in there Souful - you are doing the right thing!
He may end up admitting the things hes done at some point soon (mine did - i was FLOORED), but it'll be in a last ditch effort to suck you back in....
And what will that do for you? Just make you waver in your resolve, when you KNOW you are doing the right thing.
If he ever admits these things and apologizes a year or 2 into recovery, well, GREAT! Any of those efforts right now aren't going to be motivated to right the wrongs.
He may end up admitting the things hes done at some point soon (mine did - i was FLOORED), but it'll be in a last ditch effort to suck you back in....
And what will that do for you? Just make you waver in your resolve, when you KNOW you are doing the right thing.
If he ever admits these things and apologizes a year or 2 into recovery, well, GREAT! Any of those efforts right now aren't going to be motivated to right the wrongs.
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: East Coast
Posts: 1,235
You know what's real. I would not bother showing him screen shots or other proof. What will it accomplish? He can claim it's "fake news" <eye roll>.
An acquaintance of mine is a college professor, and he would tell stories of confronting students with plagiarism. They would deny, deny, deny that they ever did it until confronted with absolute proof.
Then they would claim that they forgot that they did it, they must have been under extreme stress and must have blocked the act of plagiarism from their minds. So, in their minds, he had to forgive them for the plagiarism and the lying, because they were so stressed out! He could have given out Academy Awards for their performances, but he would still report them.
For your reading entertainment, here's another story of academic fraud. What amazes me is how much the perpetrator lied and lied repeatedly, and how much people in high places wanted to believe him.
https://www.thecut.com/2015/05/how-a...uge-fraud.html
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,146
Having to go to court against my addict ex made it necessary to reveal all the sources of my information. This allowed my addict ex to wage a horrendous campaign against my credibility by targeting my friends and acquaintances. If at all possible, I would not contact him anymore unless absolutely necessary and avoid any courtroom drama, although with a son, I'm not sure how much you can avoid. I hope he is more cooperative than not. My ex was/is vindictive.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 249
Oh my goodness, I was actually laughing reading that. Is that bad I was laughing?
My AH used the exact tactics:
"If you are with someone else, just tell me, I was stressed out from not smoking..."
Yeah, my thought process is that once I email his parents, I will just simply provide the photos and videos I personally took, I will not send them any screenshots I took of his computer of his messages and emails to his friends.
I will definitely indicate infidelity, drug addiction, etc but only provide the photos I took, which definitely are enough. He can't deny being in those videos, unable to unlock the door, unable to speak, calling me names, with blood around his nose, passed out naked in his bed while his son is playing LEGO.
I am hopeful his parents will support me, and considering this will be the 3rd time I am telling them about their son's addictions, I know they will. Last time we spoke (last summer), they actually did tell me that if their son doesn't straighten up, they will 100% support whatever decision I make.
My heart hurts for them. They are good people. So is my AH. And you know, I think all of our AHs are good people. My email will not come from a place of blame, but a place of love and all I want to relay is that what I did was for my son.
Of course, my sanity too, but my son comes above EVERYTHING and EVERYONE. This little boy deserves better than this. I look at him and I can't help but cry. He is perfect and he is SUCH a blessing. He is smarter than everyone in his class, speak 3 languages fully, he reads and writes at 5, he already adds and subtracts, he is very active, he is well-behaved, funny, beautiful and in perfect health. I am so blessed with him.
What a damn shame.
My AH used the exact tactics:
"If you are with someone else, just tell me, I was stressed out from not smoking..."
Yeah, my thought process is that once I email his parents, I will just simply provide the photos and videos I personally took, I will not send them any screenshots I took of his computer of his messages and emails to his friends.
I will definitely indicate infidelity, drug addiction, etc but only provide the photos I took, which definitely are enough. He can't deny being in those videos, unable to unlock the door, unable to speak, calling me names, with blood around his nose, passed out naked in his bed while his son is playing LEGO.
I am hopeful his parents will support me, and considering this will be the 3rd time I am telling them about their son's addictions, I know they will. Last time we spoke (last summer), they actually did tell me that if their son doesn't straighten up, they will 100% support whatever decision I make.
My heart hurts for them. They are good people. So is my AH. And you know, I think all of our AHs are good people. My email will not come from a place of blame, but a place of love and all I want to relay is that what I did was for my son.
Of course, my sanity too, but my son comes above EVERYTHING and EVERYONE. This little boy deserves better than this. I look at him and I can't help but cry. He is perfect and he is SUCH a blessing. He is smarter than everyone in his class, speak 3 languages fully, he reads and writes at 5, he already adds and subtracts, he is very active, he is well-behaved, funny, beautiful and in perfect health. I am so blessed with him.
What a damn shame.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
Denial and rationalization are cornerstones of alcoholism. When I went to Alanon I also had to face those things in myself. Unless I deal with my own character defects I can't point the finger at anyone else.
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
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Maybe. Or a kind of relief that you've found others who can relate to what you're going through.
When we keep things to ourselves, and they become secrets, they hold much more power over us than they need to. By sharing honestly and finding the world didn't collapse on your head, perhaps you have loosened its hold over your spirit.
BB
When we keep things to ourselves, and they become secrets, they hold much more power over us than they need to. By sharing honestly and finding the world didn't collapse on your head, perhaps you have loosened its hold over your spirit.
BB
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
I am hopeful his parents will support me, and considering this will be the 3rd time I am telling them about their son's addictions, I know they will. Last time we spoke (last summer), they actually did tell me that if their son doesn't straighten up, they will 100% support whatever decision I make.
For people who aren't in recovery from codependency, the "help" and "support" they offer will probably not be very helpful or supportive. I know that I really felt like I needed to have everyone understand that I had made the right decision, and my interactions with his parents were about getting them to see my side of things.
I wish I hadn't tried to involve them in my decision to leave. I did it hoping that they would somehow get him to see the light. They had hoped the same about me, and our son and a whole lot of other things. They had to experience the full brunt of his addiction first hand in order to start setting boundaries to protect themselves (physically, emotionally, financially). But initially they were very much on his side, they were going to get him sober and hire a lawyer and get custody of our son, blah, blah, blah. So anything I told them was later used against me.
In the end it didn't matter what story my ex tried to spin, his out of control behavior spoke louder than any of the blame he tried to cast elsewhere.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
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His mother was particularly mad at me the first time I kicked him out. He stole a LOT of jewelry from her, very precious that she can never get back. Indian 24k gold one of a kind stuff.
She assumed I stole from her and when I told her what has happened, she was very kind and comforting, but told me that she actually suspected it was me all along. The shock and trauma and denial eventually started to take over her too and she proceeded to blame me for my "personality traits of being too aggressive" which caused her son to do drugs. When I kicked him out, he lived with them for 8 months and in that period, they got to really see the real him. He would come home late, or not come home, he would lie, etc... His father is "on my side", he would actually tell his mother how "why haven't you kicked him out yet, you are enabling him, etc"... It's a mess and it breaks my heart, because my AH has used and disrespected his parents... well, the same way he has crapped on his marriage too.
I reminded her gently of the time I was supposed to go India on my trip and he binged and never woke up and I almost missed my flight and she said I should forgive him because he is the son with the heart.
Or that time that he got completely drunk and passed out in a school parking lot, with the car running. His rich brother found a lawyer for him and got him off... He hasn't learnt his lesson from that.
I have forgiven him many times after that, over and over. His mother knows now he has a problem. They are not going to fight for custody, who is going to raise him, them? I know 100% they don't want that, they are at an age that is difficult to take care of a child and they absolutely agree with me that he is incapable of doing it, so I know they will support my full custody of my son.
This I feel in my heart will not be a problem. He is just really deep into his darkness and he needs professional help, but unfortunately he has to find that deep down in his soul and stop expecting me or his parents or his brother to be rescued everytime he messes up life.
I want to tell them also to prepare them, emotionally. Because if he chooses to stay in Toronto, he will stay with them. For free. And I hope to God they start charging him rent or something so he can stop using them and take advantage of their generosity. But this is in God's hands, not mine anymore.
She assumed I stole from her and when I told her what has happened, she was very kind and comforting, but told me that she actually suspected it was me all along. The shock and trauma and denial eventually started to take over her too and she proceeded to blame me for my "personality traits of being too aggressive" which caused her son to do drugs. When I kicked him out, he lived with them for 8 months and in that period, they got to really see the real him. He would come home late, or not come home, he would lie, etc... His father is "on my side", he would actually tell his mother how "why haven't you kicked him out yet, you are enabling him, etc"... It's a mess and it breaks my heart, because my AH has used and disrespected his parents... well, the same way he has crapped on his marriage too.
I reminded her gently of the time I was supposed to go India on my trip and he binged and never woke up and I almost missed my flight and she said I should forgive him because he is the son with the heart.
Or that time that he got completely drunk and passed out in a school parking lot, with the car running. His rich brother found a lawyer for him and got him off... He hasn't learnt his lesson from that.
I have forgiven him many times after that, over and over. His mother knows now he has a problem. They are not going to fight for custody, who is going to raise him, them? I know 100% they don't want that, they are at an age that is difficult to take care of a child and they absolutely agree with me that he is incapable of doing it, so I know they will support my full custody of my son.
This I feel in my heart will not be a problem. He is just really deep into his darkness and he needs professional help, but unfortunately he has to find that deep down in his soul and stop expecting me or his parents or his brother to be rescued everytime he messes up life.
I want to tell them also to prepare them, emotionally. Because if he chooses to stay in Toronto, he will stay with them. For free. And I hope to God they start charging him rent or something so he can stop using them and take advantage of their generosity. But this is in God's hands, not mine anymore.
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